Should we man mark Taarabt?

[SteelCity Blade]

Frank Lampard did not heap praise on Monty. He never has; nor have Gerrard or Vieira or anyone else of any consequence.

Can't speak for Lampard or Gerrard but Vieira definately did, I vividly remember hearing and reading it. So do a few other people it seems. Just because you dont like him doesnt mean he's never been complimented.

What does it have to do with hoofing?

 

[SwissBlade]

The Monty myth is alive and well.

For the record:

Let's get this straight. Quality players love playing against the likes of Monty. To them, he is little more than a traffic cone (the cone is slightly more mobile).

We :heart: Hoofing.

Brilliant as usual Pinchy.

I agree, I love the sort of hoofing that we played v Leeds. Monty was one of the biggest culprits. "Hoofing" the ball into the box in the form of crosses on several occasions. Monty hitting an aimless Hoof from way outside the area that Kasper tipped over. And lets not forget some of the Hoofs that Quinn was playing, one was a 40 yard, cross field Hoof into Ched's feet, Ched miscontrolled it, but it was one hell of a hoof. The majority of Quinns hoof's were short and to feet though, which was disappointing.

 

[Pinchy]

Can't speak for Lampard or Gerrard but Vieira definately did, I vividly remember hearing and reading it. So do a few other people it seems. Just because you dont like him doesnt mean he's never been complimented.

What does it have to do with hoofing?

Vieira definitely said no such thing. If he did, you will be able to find it. You won't.

Ploddy is a non-footballer. Such creatures can only function in Hoofball teams such as those fashioned by Quickfix Micky and Dinosaur Dave.

---------- Post added at 12:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 PM ----------

Brilliant as usual Pinchy.

I agree, I love the sort of hoofing that we played v Leeds. Monty was one of the biggest culprits. "Hoofing" the ball into the box in the form of crosses on several occasions. Monty hitting an aimless Hoof from way outside the area that Kasper tipped over. And lets not forget some of the Hoofs that Quinn was playing, one was a 40 yard, cross field Hoof into Ched's feet, Ched miscontrolled it, but it was one hell of a hoof. The majority of Quinns hoof's were short and to feet though,
which was disappointing.

You are not seriously suggesting that the Leeds game was typical of our wretched, hopeless, ragamuffin hoof-fest of a season are you?

The aimless hoof saved by Schmeichel was indeed just that. Your's is the first suggestion I've heard to the contrary. I don't think even Lampard or Vieira mentioned it in their weekly 'Monty' interviews.

You may have chosen not to notice but I have praised Quinny on a number of occasions in recent weeks including a glowing assessment of his performance against Leeds. He has infinitely more talent than The Maestro (then again, so have most park players) but has badly misused it until very recently. Unlike The Maestro, he could thrive in a proper football team. I wonder what Lampard will say?

 

[beechblade]

Can't speak for Lampard or Gerrard but Vieira definately did, I vividly remember hearing and reading it. So do a few other people it seems. Just because you dont like him doesnt mean he's never been complimented.

What does it have to do with hoofing?

Because Pinchy believes that total football can only be played by the ball fizzing around on the deck, when i'd say to my knowledge.. total football is the use many of different elementals of the game, it’s a mixed style with the use of all fundamental movements, tricks and turns, and various range of tackles and passes and shots, all accumulating with the best possible success.

I think he believes Monty doesn't bring or add anything into our club trying to play this more mixed style or any style, while I and others like yourself believe Monty brings in a key elemental of being able to tackle and break up play of the opposition whilst still finding a man short at about 5-10 yards, every now and again he makes a mistake like many other players do, which some will instantly pick up on, but when he does something special like a cross field ball from the outside of the boot to one of our advancing players feet, or when he wins the ball in the opponents half putting them in danger, or when he drags a player out wide away from the player on the ball with an intelligent run, it goes completely unnoticed.

 

[lenners]

If and when we go down, Monty will more than likely go to a leading Championship club, one that will be probably lauded for playing good football - or at least substantially more football than us.
The reality is he is and has been much better than some fans give him credit for and that's why he never would have struggled to sign for another club above our current position.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

Vieira definitely said no such thing. If he did, you will be able to find it. You won't.

Ploddy is a non-footballer. Such creatures can only function in Hoofball teams such as those fashioned by Quickfix Micky and Dinosaur Dave.

You consider that a fact do you? Why would you be able to find it? If it hasnt been quoted online then I would suggest a one of comment is very difficult to find actually.....plus not all online sources keep historical articles etc. so its quite convenient for you to say the comment didnt exist. Quite a number of us remember hearing and reading that comment.....if you choose to disbelieve it that's your prerogative but I can promise you, you're mistaken.

"Hoofball" as you call it is a fictional term and means nothing other than what you want it to mean. Call Monty whatever you like, the fact is he knows far more about the professional game than you or I because he does it for a living. Are you one of these people that tells a plumber how to fit the overflow pipe?

Also, to call one of the most successful managers of this club's history a "dinosaur" is highly disrespectful IMHO.

 

[JohnDenver]

Are you one of these people that tells a plumber how to fit the overflow pipe?

No, that's me. Cowboys broke my boiler!

 

[SteelCity Blade]

No, that's me. Cowboys broke my boiler!

Never fear JD me owd.....I'll pop round n'look at thi boiler! I've recently discovered how to regulate the pressure on mine so I'm an expert now

Marvellous what turning a little key can do for a man's ego!

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I remember Monty doing a fine job on Patrick Vieira in the cup against Arsenal a few years ago. Maybe we should try the same on Taarabt on 4th April?

Not sure how else we'll stop him other than wind him up so he does something stupid!!

Kick in bollocks might slow him down somewhat?

 

[SteelCity Blade]

Referring back to the Vieira-Monty sub-topic on this thread, was it this game?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2356076/Cole-kick-keeps-Arsenal-in-the-hunt.html

"In the centre, Vieira found himself stalked by red-and-white striped men, particularly the excellent Nick Montgomery."

Admittedly there is no interview with Vieira in there but the telegraph seemed impressed. Even ive never seen those last three words in the same sentence before!

 

[Chapel Allerton]

Referring back to the Vieira-Monty sub-topic on this thread, was it this game?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2356076/Cole-kick-keeps-Arsenal-in-the-hunt.html

"In the centre, Vieira found himself stalked by red-and-white striped men, particularly the excellent Nick Montgomery."

Admittedly there is no interview with Vieira in there but the telegraph seemed impressed. Even ive never seen those last three words in the same sentence before!

That was the game. Monty was superb. Paddy had an injured hip and dived the same way for every penalty to avoid landing on it. I still think we should've subbed Paddy and had Jags in goal for the penalties!

Anyway, that's just the job he could do against Taarabt, although I take the points made that we should play our own game and not worry too much about one player.

 

[Bergen Blade]

No - I dont believe in man marking someone in a free role (which is effectively what he has). He plays in pockets of space and his movement is exceptional. If we detail anyone to man mark him he will pull that player all over the park and mess up our shape.....QPR's other good players will then be free to run riot.

Taarabt generally doesnt get involved until the ball is in the oppo half and he will almost always try to come inside. The best thing to do is to keep our shape nice and compact so to deny him an opportunity to cut inside and shoot. This may allow their wide players (i.e. Routledge) a little more time and space but it is better not to get too tight to them as they will run in behind our full back every time. QPR adopt a clever ploy of trying to use their wide players to stretch the opposition, allowing Taarabt a lot of space down the middle to exploit.

It just a case of staying nice and compact so that their main playmakers find it more difficult to hurt us. By marking up any of them we would be in danger of getting pulled all over the place and out of position. They're a strong side and we will have to try and soak up pressure for large periods of the game whatever we do, so disciplined positioning is the way forward IMO. If we try to man mark they will annihilate us!

It's something we should at least consider though, this is by far the best player in the division and he is hugely instrumental in most things QPR do on the attack. If we stop him and the wide men QPR aren't a very creative side. Having lost Walker their full backs aren't as good going forward, while Derry and Faurlin usually sits deep in midfield. Our competetive and tenacious midfield may be as effective as a man marker though. I would have liked to see the reports of our scouts focusing on how other teams have dealt with him, hopefully the management will have done their home work by monday.

It would have been great to have a bit more pace up front, as I think it's possible to get in behind them on the break - Gorkss and Hill in particular aren't the quickest.

 

[JohnDenver]

That was the game. Monty was superb. Paddy had an injured hip and dived the same way for every penalty to avoid landing on it. I still think we should've subbed Paddy and had Jags in goal for the penalties!

Anyway, that's just the job he could do against Taarabt, although I take the points made that we should play our own game and not worry too much about one player.

You've got me surfing for reports of happier days...

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ief-to-cut-into-spurs-soft-centre-436046.html

This one also mentions how we were 10 points ahead of West Ham in February '07. If the shammers can do it (cheating notwithstanding), then so can we.

 

[Pinchy]

You consider that a fact do you? Why would you be able to find it? If it hasnt been quoted online then I would suggest a one of comment is very difficult to find actually.....plus not all online sources keep historical articles etc. so its quite convenient for you to say the comment didnt exist. Quite a number of us remember hearing and reading that comment.....if you choose to disbelieve it that's your prerogative but I can promise you, you're mistaken.

"Hoofball" as you call it is a fictional term and means nothing other than what you want it to mean. Call Monty whatever you like, the fact is he knows far more about the professional game than you or I because he does it for a living. Are you one of these people that tells a plumber how to fit the overflow pipe?

If the plumber in question had been incompetent for many years, as evidenced by the total failure of my heating system, I would certainly have a word with him.

Was Vieira's broadcast to the nation on TV or radio? Did he deliver it en Francais or in English? In which decade? Was he flanked by Gerrard and Lampard at the press release? No, of course not. It's all rubbish promulgated by Ploddyphiles to convince themselves that The Maestro is some sort of modern day Trevor Hockey. I've seen them both - He isn't.

Dave Bassett was wonderful in his time. I saw and heard every minute of it, including four years of magic but not forgetting (many do) his last 18 months when, without Deane and Agana, He hadn't a clue. He then hopped around any number of clubs, achieving nothing but the sack. His methods were found out: he couldn't adapt. Dinosaur it is then. My disrespect is reserved for Quickfix Micky and the rest of the clowns who thought it a good idea to bring him back. We have become a complete parody of ourselves, yet some of you drink it all up and ask for more, without pausing to check that flawlessly accurate barometer of football: the league table. We are not there by accident and your 'professional' heroes have made their full contribution to our downfall.

I wonder what Patrick Vieira thinks? Quelle horreur?

One of the terms of reference of this forum is, I believe, irreverence. I try to keep up the tradition. I'm quite sure that millionaire Dave and £14k a week Monty will cry all the way to the bank!

 

[LSF]

If the plumber in question had been incompetent for many years, as evidenced by the total failure of my heating system, I would certainly have a word with him.

Was Vieira's broadcast to the nation on TV or radio? Did he deliver it en Francais or in English? In which decade? Was he flanked by Gerrard and Lampard at the press release? No, of course not. It's all rubbish promulgated by Ploddyphiles to convince themselves that The Maestro is some sort of modern day Trevor Hockey. I've seen them both - He isn't.

Dave Bassett was wonderful in his time. I saw and heard every minute of it, including four years of magic but not forgetting (many do) his last 18 months when, without Deane and Agana, He hadn't a clue. He then hopped around any number of clubs, achieving nothing but the sack. His methods were found out: he couldn't adapt. Dinosaur it is then. My disrespect is reserved for Quickfix Micky and the rest of the clowns who thought it a good idea to bring him back. We have become a complete parody of ourselves, yet some of you drink it all up and ask for more, without pausing to check that flawlessly accurate barometer of football: the league table. We are not there by accident and your 'professional' heroes have made their full contribution to our downfall.

I wonder what Patrick Vieira thinks? Quelle horreur?

One of the terms of reference of this forum is, I believe, irreverence. I try to keep up the tradition. I'm quite sure that millionaire Dave and £14k a week Monty will cry all the way to the bank!

Pinchy, I've long since stopped debating with you on the subject of Monty, you have your views and refuse to acknowledge anything positive about him whatever the evidence on show, I'll put that down to a weakness in your character but hey ho ...

However, Trevor Hockey now comes into the fray and I have a view on that so I'll put mine to you. I reckon me and thee are around the same age and saw the same Blades teams throughout our lives. Trevor Hockey had severe limitations in his game, much the same as Monty's I'd say. His passing was inconsistent, sometimes on the mark, sometimes wayward and awful, he got up and down the pitch pretty well and his presence in the midfield was usually announced with a snapping tackle on some gifted artist (you know, the ones your have erotic dreams about). He generally left any artistry to his partner in crime and went about his job in his limited way. That limited way was mighty effective in the team he was part of, despite his limitations as what you might term a 'real footballer'.
Given the disadvantage of a different time, place and era and taking into account the modern day player is so much better conditioned than the seventies beer monsters, I'd give my vote to Mr Monty as a better exponent of his craft than TH!

Interested in your views on that but maybe I already know the reply will contain only more 'witticisms' aimed at NM.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Dave Bassett was wonderful in his time. I saw and heard every minute of it, including four years of magic but not forgetting (many do) his last 18 months when, without Deane and Agana, He hadn't a clue. He then hopped around any number of clubs, achieving nothing but the sack. His methods were found out: he couldn't adapt. Dinosaur it is then.

Bassett actually won the First Division Championship with Forest after he left us. He also reached the Play-off Final with Palace and then Barnsley. So not exactly "achieved nothing with his dinosaur methods" then?

 

[Big Mart]

When he's at full fitness, Montgomery can do an excellent man marking job. I can recall his effort against Manchester City in October 2001, when he man marked Ali Bernarbia, City's answer to Taraabt.

Pretty much says it all when you can remember a game from 2001, so rare are his half decent performances that they instantly spring to mind.

I think he believes Monty doesn't bring or add anything into our club trying to play this more mixed style or any style, while I and others like yourself believe Monty brings in a key elemental of being able to tackle and break up play of the opposition whilst still finding a man short at about 5-10 yards, every now and again he makes a mistake like many other players do, which some will instantly pick up on, but when he does something special like a cross field ball from the outside of the boot to one of our advancing players feet, or when he wins the ball in the opponents half putting them in danger, or when he drags a player out wide away from the player on the ball with an intelligent run, it goes completely unnoticed.

That's hilarious, almost fell off the chair laughing at that summation. His tackling is invariably mistimed, and often made due to errors of his own in mis controlling or giving the ball away. David Blunkett could make a 5 - 10 yard pass equally as well, as to crossfield balls with the outside of his foot??? Dream on, think you must be getting him mixed up with someone else, and as for "going on an intelligent run"??? Would that be the one where he sets off at pace.....then ends up back where he started, rather similar to a Jack Russell chasing its tail. That's one of his many faults, he kicks the ball then chases after it, thus crowding our own players and definitely NOT creating space, quite the opposite.

Deary me, we all have opinions but come on, we've seen over the years what type of "player" he is, and he certainly isn't anything like you make out, fucking Gazza would struggle living up to that rose tinted cobblers.

 

[LSF]

Pretty much says it all when you can remember a game from 2001, so rare are his half decent performances that they instantly spring to mind.



That's hilarious, almost fell off the chair laughing at that summation. His tackling is invariably mistimed, and often made due to errors of his own in mis controlling or giving the ball away. David Blunkett could make a 5 - 10 yard pass equally as well, as to crossfield balls with the outside of his foot??? Dream on, think you must be getting him mixed up with someone else, and as for "going on an intelligent run"??? Would that be the one where he sets off at pace.....then ends up back where he started, rather similar to a Jack Russell chasing its tail. That's one of his many faults, he kicks the ball then chases after it, thus crowding our own players and definitely NOT creating space, quite the opposite.

Deary me, we all have opinions but come on, we've seen over the years what type of "player" he is, and he certainly isn't anything like you make out, fucking Gazza would struggle living up to that rose tinted cobblers.

Are you Pinchy in disguise Horace? Sigh....another one...

 

[Tuns]

Warnock used Monty well in man marking roles but overdid it with the regularity and god knows why he thought it would be a good idea to throw in Nicky Law to man mark Paul Scholes for one of the most ineffective man marking displays I have seen.

 

[beechblade]

That's hilarious, almost fell off the chair laughing at that summation. His tackling is invariably mistimed, and often made due to errors of his own in mis controlling or giving the ball away. David Blunkett could make a 5 - 10 yard pass equally as well, as to crossfield balls with the outside of his foot??? Dream on, think you must be getting him mixed up with someone else, and as for "going on an intelligent run"??? Would that be the one where he sets off at pace.....then ends up back where he started, rather similar to a Jack Russell chasing its tail. That's one of his many faults, he kicks the ball then chases after it, thus crowding our own players and definitely NOT creating space, quite the opposite.


.
Deary me, we all have opinions but come on, we've seen over the years what type of "player" he is, and he certainly isn't anything like you make out, fucking Gazza would struggle living up to that rose tinted cobblers.

I don't make him sound like Gazza, I state a few of the things he has done over this season alone, the outside of the boot pass was made in a game not too long back, it obviously shows you weren't taking note of what else he does in a game other than what your vision sees, I've also seen him make some of the more intelligent runs in recent games, in the forest match alone he created space for Yeates to make runs at the box at least three times. I can't speak of what he did at the Leeds game I was on a course. As for making 5-10 yard passes yes its easy when your stood opposite your mate knocking the ball too and throw but doing it during a fast paced game whilst anticipating the run and movement of the receiving player, then judging the weight and speed of the pass so it isn't as easily intercepted by a defender playing, isn't as easy as you make it sound.

As for tinted views look at your own post and watch the player, you may see more than you realise, when people get to the actual underpin of the game and peel away at the layers you'll find out that the game is far more than the little kick and hope and tackle these days. Have a kick about and playing is one thing but actually learning more about the game is another, and with that people like yourself wouldn't be calling managers dinosaurs and the majority of players useless no marks or whatever it is this week that takes your fancy, certainly with the managers at least you'd know how hard it is too reach the level they do

 

[Big Mart]

You live in a dream world.

 

[beechblade]

You live in a dream world.

AH very intelligent imput from someone who clearly knows of nothing he lashes vitrol about at.

 

[Pinchy]

Surely 'dinosaurs' is an entirely apt analogy for managers, coaches and consultants whose ideas are decades out of date and long abandoned by any club that actually achieves anything?

I'm sure management is very difficult. Quickfix Micky certainly makes it look that way.

I hear we're playing a new lad called Terry Dactyl on the wing next match.

 

[beechblade]

Surely 'dinosaurs' is an entirely apt analogy for managers, coaches and consultants whose ideas are decades out of date and long abandoned by any club that actually achieves anything?

No there should be no such thing, a good coach and manager has to keep his qualifications going through CDP at least once a year, mind you coaches are like ourselves each has his own opinions, I suppose some may have their view but with how the modern game is evolving I can't see many of them around, they have to be as adaptable as a player. But what is your exeprience or any other who uses that term do you actual know anything about coaching or managing or are you just going on your assumptions based on the field on saturday?
Have you been involved in the modern game of football or coaching of modern football? Do you know much about the training techniques employed these days? Do know anything about the four corner model that all training sessions fit into? I'd say your last two comments say you haven't.
The only Jarassic views on here come from how you see the likes of Monty and Micky and lambast them at any opportunity or for every tiny mistacke they make, but fail to notice the good they do preformaces.

 

[Big Mart]

vitrol

Isn't that something that helps with ear infections? It always makes me smile when someone questions anothers intelligence, then makes a schoolboy spelling error.

Think you mean "vitriol"

 

[JohnDenver]

Isn't that something that helps with ear infections? It always makes me smile when someone questions anothers intelligence, then makes a schoolboy spelling error.

Think you mean "vitriol"

Let he who is without sin* cast the first stone.




* or an apostrophe.

 

[beechblade]

Isn't that something that helps with ear infections? It always makes me smile when someone questions anothers intelligence, then makes a schoolboy spelling error.

Think you mean "vitriol"

You got my drift, and spelling isn't always an ear mark for intelligence.

 

[Big Mart]

Have you been involved in the modern game of football or coaching of modern football? Do you know much about the training techniques employed these days? Do know anything about the four corner model that all training sessions fit into?

Wonder what Tony Currie would have made of that, or Pele, Johann Cryff etc.... You know what? I bought a book full of guitar chords, can't play the guitar though so quote all you like about coaching manuals, if you haven't got the basics then you'll always struggle. Nick Montgomery still can't properly control a football, and that's despite all the wonderful modern coaching he's received so let's not kid ourselves that he's something that he isn't.

As to the modern way of coaching well I'm sorry, to me it's mostly bollocks. The Liverpool side of a few years back employed the best plan, keep it simple. Play in short triangles, don't give the ball away and simply master the basics. Football's a simple game, no need for mathematical formulae to win matches, just keep the ball and score more than the opposition, and yes it really is that easy if you employ players that can do the basics well enough.

 

[Pinchy]

The team of Souness and Dalglish? That was one of the best half-dozen football teams I have ever seen.

What a shame that Souness is now best known as a failed manager. In truth, he was one of the greatest British midfielders if all time. He had all the gifts but was hard as nails too.

 

[Vancouver]

I hear we're playing a new lad called Terry Dactyl on the wing next match.

He flies when he's at full speed and is good on both wings.