Blades U23 V QPR at 1pm live on youtube

[LudlamBlade]

Things move quickly in Academy football, and I haven't seen any of them live for a year. So I don't feel comfortable commenting too much. Also, when I watch Academy games, I'm there to enjoy the games in the moment. Not to guess what might happen two years down the line. I'm good at saying who is playing consistently well at their level. But, I'm hopeless at "potential". Norrington-Davies, Belehouan, Slater, Broadbent, Smith are all already on loan. (Along with Eastwood, Verrips, Coulibaly & Freeman). Hackford & Ndiaye have been jacked into first team appearances. Gordon & Brunt have been in first team squads. So, the pecking order is there for all to see.

You ask who is "seen as most promising". I'm not picking hairs, but that sounds a bit like "who the staff see as most promising". Of course, I don't know that. But I'm happier naming "who I myself see as most promising". Of those not already on loan, I always say, simply, I like Dewhurst, Boyes & Neal. Dewhurst & Boyes have already had loan spells.

You make an excellent point about noise & hype. There is very good news. We have superb social media coverage of Academy games. With highlights clips. And the occasional live stream. But. The bad news is ... people see a 28 second clip of a player scoring a great goal ... and there is an inevitable "get him in could do a job" buzz. I'm not criticising that. It's just an honest view.

For example, none of this current crop have come anywhere close to the numbers & quality Tyler Smith had in his 22 goal 2017/18 U23 season. Which was not as well covered on Twitter & YouTube.

Great post Phil. I admit I've recently been one for getting a bit giddy about promoting players to the first team squad, but I think its more of a reflection of my frustration with certain first teamers of late.

Tyler doesn't seem to be pulling up many trees at Swindon, he had a good run and bagged a couple of goals but he's largely been limited to sub appearances since (if he gets on at all).

My mate is cousins with Ty and Kyron and regularly keeps me updated on how he's doing!

** edit : Similar situation for Regan at Hull by the looks of it as well.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Great post Phil. I admit I've recently been one for getting a bit giddy about promoting players to the first team squad, but I think its more of a reflection of my frustration with certain first teamers of late.

Tyler doesn't seem to be pulling up many trees at Swindon, he had a good run and bagged a couple of goals but he's largely been limited to sub appearances since (if he gets on at all).

My mate is cousins with Ty and Kyron and regularly keeps me updated on how he's doing!

I was called out on Shoutbox during yesterday's stream for (something like) pouring water on suggestions this crop will make it. (called out in a friendly way, with no malice I might add). That is never my intention. I swear, while I'm stood on a touchline watching them, you will never see anyone with a broader smile than me, cheering and hooting. Wallowing in the sheer joy of kids in United shirts putting the lot in. Me. Personally. I'd happily accept fewer league points & a lower league position to see more home grown kids in the first team. But, I'm not a mug, I know that is very much a minority view, and I'm not going into bat for that on here. So .... of course I understand you & others getting giddy. Particularly during difficult times for the first team. But, take Ayari, poor sod. Wonder goals at U18. Call ups for Tunisia U20s. And, people suggesting him for the first team BEFORE he's even played U23 football. There has to be a bit of realism.
One thing I will say. David Brooks. Once he'd got a couple of U18 games under his baggy shorts. He was in all games. All the time. Incessant. Demanding. Making things happen. No cameos. No 28 second clips - 90+4 minutes bang at it. You'll notice that. That'll make him stand out. No one in this crop makes your neck hair stand up like that.

 

[LudlamBlade]

I was called out on Shoutbox during yesterday's stream for (something like) pouring water on suggestions this crop will make it. (called out in a friendly way, with no malice I might add). That is never my intention. I swear, while I'm stood on a touchline watching them, you will never see anyone with a broader smile than me, cheering and hooting. Wallowing in the sheer joy of kids in United shirts putting the lot in. Me. Personally. I'd happily accept fewer league points & a lower league position to see more home grown kids in the first team. But, I'm not a mug, I know that is very much a minority view, and I'm not going into bat for that on here. So .... of course I understand you & others getting giddy. Particularly during difficult times for the first team. But, take Ayari, poor sod. Wonder goals at U18. Call ups for Tunisia U20s. And, people suggesting him for the first team BEFORE he's even played U23 football. There has to be a bit of realism.
One thing I will say. David Brooks. Once he'd got a couple of U18 games under his baggy shorts. He was in all games. All the time. Incessant. Demanding. Making things happen. No cameos. No 28 second clips - 90+4 minutes bang at it. You'll notice that. That'll make him stand out. No one in this crop makes your neck hair stand up like that.

Yeah you're probably right about it being a minority view, with perhaps an exception for our current situation, as more people seem to be cheesed off with a lack of effort from people like lazy Lunny.

Hassan is a great example because he didn't do all that well at the recent U20 Cup for Tunisia. He got a goal and an assist but was then hooked off around the 60min mark in the remaining games, from what I saw.

Interesting point about no one making the hairs stand up on the back of your neck, do you not reckon that could just be down to Brooks being a real flair player? I'd have thought a player in Brunt or definitely Neal's mould, would be more likely to just look "solid" rather than "electric"?

 

[Balham]

Great post Phil. I admit I've recently been one for getting a bit giddy about promoting players to the first team squad, but I think its more of a reflection of my frustration with certain first teamers of late.

Tyler doesn't seem to be pulling up many trees at Swindon, he had a good run and bagged a couple of goals but he's largely been limited to sub appearances since (if he gets on at all).

My mate is cousins with Ty and Kyron and regularly keeps me updated on how he's doing!

** edit : Similar situation for Regan at Hull by the looks of it as well.

I think both Slater (21) and Smith (22) are out of contract at the end of this season. I doubt either will be here on September 1st but they'll both have decent careers at L1/L2 level. Smith is behind Sharp, McGoldrick, McBurnie, Brewster, Mousset, Burke in the first team and with Hackford and Ndaiye getting first team minutes his time is probably up. Slater may have a better chance as we'll need bodies in midfield in pre-season when Lundstram leaves.

 

[LudlamBlade]

I think both Slater (21) and Smith (22) are out of contract at the end of this season. I doubt either will be here on September 1st but they'll both have decent careers at L1/L2 level. Smith is behind Sharp, McGoldrick, McBurnie, Brewster, Mousset, Burke in the first team and with Hackford and Ndaiye getting first team minutes his time is probably up. Slater may have a better chance as we'll need bodies in midfield in pre-season when Lundstram leaves.

I think you might be right about Tyler but I have a feeling we'll be seeing a bit more of Regan yet, mainly because as you say, we will need bodies!

I'm not 100% on this but I think he has an optional 1 year extension in his contract (Regan)

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Yeah you're probably right about it being a minority view, with perhaps an exception for our current situation, as more people seem to be cheesed off with a lack of effort from people like lazy Lunny.

Hassan is a great example because he didn't do all that well at the recent U20 Cup for Tunisia. He got a goal and an assist but was then hooked off around the 60min mark in the remaining games, from what I saw.

Interesting point about no one making the hairs stand up on the back of your neck, do you not reckon that could just be down to Brooks being a real flair player? I'd have thought a player in Brunt or definitely Neal's mould, would be more likely to just look "solid" rather than "electric"?

Flair players, like Cappello, like Ayari, of course you notice them. But Brooks (and Diego of course) were different. Because it wasn't in patches. It was all games, all the time. With some players, they do some wonder skill, but you think - oh yeah, I forgot he was playing.

Historically, I have tended to notice midfield players as well. Those who play goes through. Get it. Give it. Make it tick. I used to love watching Reed & Dimaio playing together. Then Slater & Gilmour. Neal & Maguire.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I think both Slater (21) and Smith (22) are out of contract at the end of this season. I doubt either will be here on September 1st but they'll both have decent careers at L1/L2 level. Smith is behind Sharp, McGoldrick, McBurnie, Brewster, Mousset, Burke in the first team and with Hackford and Ndaiye getting first team minutes his time is probably up. Slater may have a better chance as we'll need bodies in midfield in pre-season when Lundstram leaves.

I'm not going to strongly disagree. But, I think Tyler would have got those Hackford & Ndiaye minutes if he'd been at the club (rather than out on loan). For "reasons", including Covid, in the crisis of injuries, suspensions, lack of form, we had to reach over our out on loan players to get to Hackford & Ndiaye. But, I see your general point.

 

[LudlamBlade]

Flair players, like Cappello, like Ayari, of course you notice them. But Brooks (and Diego of course) were different. Because it wasn't in patches. It was all games, all the time. With some players, they do some wonder skill, but you think - oh yeah, I forgot he was playing.

Historically, I have tended to notice midfield players as well. Those who play goes through. Get it. Give it. Make it tick. I used to love watching Reed & Dimaio playing together. Then Slater & Gilmour. Neal & Maguire.

Good point about consistency!

I was quite impressed with the way N'Diaye involved himself in every attack yesterday, but the name you've just mentioned is always the name to go back to when reminding oneself to judge academy talent with a pinch of salt...

Diego

 

[Rudders]

There has to be a bit of realism.
One thing I will say. David Brooks. Once he'd got a couple of U18 games under his baggy shorts. He was in all games. All the time. Incessant. Demanding. Making things happen. No cameos. No 28 second clips - 90+4 minutes bang at it. You'll notice that. That'll make him stand out. No one in this crop makes your neck hair stand up like that.

TBF David Brooks has been the best talent I have seen playing for Utd first team since i started going regularly in about 92. Really disappointing sale just from an entertainment/excitement point of view, as these players just don't seem to come around very often. I appreciate that other attributes such as fitness/desire/injury prone-ness/attitude/positional discipline are all (less exciting) parts of the make up of a modern player but for sheer foot related ability and excitement he has got to be up there....
Amazed he is still only in the championship and has not gone back higher up.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Good point about consistency!

I was quite impressed with the way N'Diaye involved himself in every attack yesterday, but the name you've just mentioned is always the name to go back to when reminding oneself to judge academy talent with a pinch of salt...

Diego

Ndiaye is an interesting one. At a couple of Academy away games in London, I met the Scout who recommended Iliman (and Ta'Shae Andell-Gibbons, they were at the same private academy). I've said about Iliman - initially, he looked like a street baller. The kid who had always been the best in any team he'd played in. All the skills. All the drills. But, teams worked him out in five minutes. In real 11 a side, he'd no idea how to get the ball to show the skills. Chasing the ball hopelessly at times. Completely static & not reacting at others. Shape defending. Helpfully, there's still that - got it, run at them - stuff. And, he's obviously learning how to play - look for space, be available, make runs off the ball.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

TBF David Brooks has been the best talent I have seen playing for Utd first team since i started going regularly in about 92. Really disappointing sale just from an entertainment/excitement point of view, as these players just don't seem to come around very often. I appreciate that other attributes such as fitness/desire/injury prone-ness/attitude/positional discipline are all (less exciting) parts of the make up of a modern player but for sheer foot related ability and excitement he has got to be up there....
Amazed he is still only in the championship and has not gone back higher up.

And. Some of what you saw was (in my opinion) Made In Shirecliffe. Even the Carrier Bag Firm don't watch training, but during games, the staff constantly encouraged Brooks, cajoling not bawling out. Switching him about the pitch. Have a go at left back. "If you do this, then he'll have to do that and that will mean....". Of course, he had the bits. They knew he was something special. They didn't neglect the other players. But, they had a very clear idea how they wanted to progress Brooks.

 

[Yogi]

Ndiaye is an interesting one. At a couple of Academy away games in London, I met the Scout who recommended Ilimam (and Ta'Shae Andell-Gibbons, they were at the same private academy). I've said about Ilimam - initially, he looked like a street baller. The kid who had always been the best in any team he'd played in. All the skills. All the drills. But, teams worked him out in five minutes. In real 11 a side, he'd no idea how to get the ball to show the skills. Chasing the ball hopelessly at times. Completely static & not reacting at others. Shape defending. Helpfully, there's still that - got it, run at them - stuff. And, he's obviously learning how to play - look for space, be available, make runs off the ball.

I think we definitely saw quite a bit of his run aimless tendencies in his senior debut where he did a lot of ball chasing out of position. However yesterday he was the standout player on the pitch involved in a lot of what United did well and he surprised me with his vision aswell as his obviously good close control. Like you say he isn’t a first team player year certainly not at the level United are at but there’s a player in there.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I think we definitely saw quite a bit of his run aimless tendencies in his senior debut where he did a lot of ball chasing out of position. However yesterday he was the standout player on the pitch involved in a lot of what United did well and he surprised me with his vision aswell as his obviously good close control. Like you say he isn’t a first team player year certainly not at the level United are at but there’s a player in there.

The Red Mist came down as well though. I've seen him hauled off an Academy game after a bit of bollocks & hunting down the player with a series of deliberate retaliatory hacks.

 

[Yogi]

The Red Mist came down as well though. I've seen him hauled off an Academy game after a bit of bollocks & hunting down the player with a series of deliberate retaliatory hacks.

Yeah it was naughty from the QPR player so I’d guess the initial reaction was par for the course for footballers now but it was concerning how insistent he was to keep going after the player having to be dragged away by mousset and then brooks.

 

[LudlamBlade]

Ndiaye is an interesting one. At a couple of Academy away games in London, I met the Scout who recommended Ilimam (and Ta'Shae Andell-Gibbons, they were at the same private academy). I've said about Ilimam - initially, he looked like a street baller. The kid who had always been the best in any team he'd played in. All the skills. All the drills. But, teams worked him out in five minutes. In real 11 a side, he'd no idea how to get the ball to show the skills. Chasing the ball hopelessly at times. Completely static & not reacting at others. Shape defending. Helpfully, there's still that - got it, run at them - stuff. And, he's obviously learning how to play - look for space, be available, make runs off the ball.

I remember seeing the article when we first signed them both and being fairly excited by videos of N'Diaye but like you say, he looked like the typical playground nutmeg kid who had little to no understanding of the game as a whole. He does seem to be maturing though.

Gone the other way for Andall-Gibbons, still without a club and recently posting training videos on his Instagram trying to find a club. I heard rumours he had come from a really bad background and was two steps from gang culture before Rising Ballers spotted him.

I always find it sad how thin the knife edge is between making it as a professional and disappearing into immediate obscurity, especially for young players. Today's thread about Samir Carruthers is an example of how it can even happen to a (relatively) established football league player!

 

[LudlamBlade]

Yeah it was naughty from the QPR player so I’d guess the initial reaction was par for the course for footballers now but it was concerning how insistent he was to keep going after the player having to be dragged away by mousset and then brooks.

Think that comes from learning their trade in the cages, being street ballers.

If you don't step up in there, you're quickly stepped on!

 

[Yogi]

Think that comes from learning their trade in the cages, being street ballers.

If you don't step up in there, you're quickly stepped on!

Oh yeah certainly but it’s something he’ll have to work on as part of his development like Phil says because at the pro level players will target that.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I "have the advantage" of recording things on my Blog. I was at the one where Iliman trialled, he wasn't even called Iliman that day.

Jan 2019, away at Crewe Alexandra U23

"The main eyecatcher was trialist (on the sheet as) Chiekh Ndiaye. There was some frantic Googling. And staring at images & haircuts. I've got him as a kid at Boreham Wood FC, born in France, and called Iliman-Cheikh Ndiaye in “other contexts”. He set up, and popped up, all over midfield. Often in that drive forward, find a gap, John Fleck (ish) role. Anyway Ndiaye showed a lot of nice touches and was calm and assured on the ball. He scored the opening goal with an intelligent header. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Not absolutely outstanding & head n shoulders. But, noticeable and got a few heads nodding. He was subbed off at 70. That was planned. I know that because I was enjoying some quality Travis Time & he said “right I'll go and get that Trialist off, see you next game”.

Me, I'd have another look at him. Particularly as the Academy now had a Harvey Gilmour shaped hole."

 

[LudlamBlade]

Oh yeah certainly but it’s something he’ll have to work on as part of his development like Phil says because at the pro level players will target that.

Absolutely. You only have to look at how players like Morelos, Balotelli, Barton etc got targeted by other teams, wound up and booked/sent off

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

And, in more depth away at Millwall U23 in September 2019. (warning - long)

"I've seen Iliman Ndiaye in a number of little cameo appearances. But, today has been the first chance/time I've concentrated on him properly. He has a background growing up, and learning to play the game, in France & Senegal. Before moving to live in London, apparently without being able to speak a word of English. He did "Soccer Camps" and trials at a number of clubs. But, eventually ended up playing for Boreham Wood FC. He signed into the Shirecliffe Academy, after scouting & trials, in late August.

He's a bit on the slight & light side, but he's got a natural athleticism about him. Thin legs, with that slightly bow legged thing going on. The best way I can describe his performance is as follows. He's like that kid who has always been the best, most skillful ball player in every team he's ever played in. In the past he's made it look easy, probably because it was for him. But now, booooom, you fire him into a whole different ball game. And, he's trying, but struggling at times, to see how this game works. That's not to be critical. Suddenly, the ball drops right, he's got a yard of space "by chance". His hips don't lie. He's facing goal. He's off. Ball close his feet. Midfielders & defenders hanging off, or on their arse.

But, at other times, he's shape defending. Trying to stand in the right position as his man has the ball. But, not worrying him, not challenging him. I feel he'd benefit from being given a very definite role in games like today. He started like he was a completely rolling rover. Running around a lot. Popping up all over the park. But, ineffective. Great run kid. But, it's now not happening where you are. Too drifty. OK. He's learning. But, in the opening 15, compare him to (say) Reece York. Reece seemed to be involved in every play, attacking or defending. Iliman was very reactive in those early stages. The ball would come into his bit, you'd see the Millwall bloke with it, or go for it, and the first thing you'd notice is Iliman stationary. Wait. Then he moves. He'll need to be more alive, anticipatory & switched on.

Props to Iliman though. From about 15 onwards he started to get more involved - albeit in patches. Some good link play with Stephen Mallon playing left wingback. Iliman started to move towards his mates with the ball, looking for it, and was better for that. On 25, he got his first, facing the goal, ball at his feet, wriggling run going on - and got a half decent shot off.

In the second half, Iliman was involved in United's best spell (it was only short mind…). He was fully involved in the build up and recycling. Before York got a great long range shot off. Which rattled the post/bar - I don't know, I'm not a carpenter. Almost immediately, Iliman got on another one of those snaking runs, leaving defenders for dead. Only a great fingertip save by the 'wall 'keeper kept it out."

 

[LudlamBlade]

I "have the advantage" of recording things on my Blog. I was at the one where Iliman trialled, he wasn't even called Iliman that day.

Jan 2019, away at Crewe Alexandra U23

"The main eyecatcher was trialist (on the sheet as) Chiekh Ndiaye. There was some frantic Googling. And staring at images & haircuts. I've got him as a kid at Boreham Wood FC, born in France, and called Iliman-Cheikh Ndiaye in “other contexts”. He set up, and popped up, all over midfield. Often in that drive forward, find a gap, John Fleck (ish) role. Anyway Ndiaye showed a lot of nice touches and was calm and assured on the ball. He scored the opening goal with an intelligent header. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Not absolutely outstanding & head n shoulders. But, noticeable and got a few heads nodding. He was subbed off at 70. That was planned. I know that because I was enjoying some quality Travis Time & he said “right I'll go and get that Trialist off, see you next game”.

Me, I'd have another look at him. Particularly as the Academy now had a Harvey Gilmour shaped hole."

Nice to see that perspective from the day!

I think it was the Boreham Wood videos I saw as well, remember thinking he looked like a live wire but that he still looked pretty small, he does look to have filled out a bit.

Hopefully he's learning bits from being around Didzy, because he may well be his backup next season

 

[Yogi]

Nice to see that perspective from the day!

I think it was the Boreham Wood videos I saw as well, remember thinking he looked like a live wire but that he still looked pretty small, he does look to have filled out a bit.

Hopefully he's learning bits from being around Didzy, because he may well be his backup next season

He looked a very nice foil stylistically to mousset yesterday. Mousset as the power runner leading the line bullying defenders and ndiaye picking up the pieces and second balls on the edge of the box and then helping to recycle the ball high up the pitch.

 

[LudlamBlade]

Hopefully the shared French/Senegalese connection proves to be positive, might be just the thing Moose needs to get his head back in the game.

He still looks knackered though!

 

[Silent Blade]

It’s unlikely we have that level of golden generation in the making. We’ve had some great youth sides even in recent years which have only produced one or two senior players. The FA youth cup semi final group only really produced Maguire and long who’ve played consistently at league one or above with an honourable mention for mcfadzean

We reached the final.

 

[Yogi]

We reached the final.

My mistake we did the two leg thing put me off but you’re right really enjoyed the home leg with a full house.