Who actually wants us to turn it around now?

[lenners]

Isiah: Finally we need a board interested in building a football club within a community crying out for a focus, not primarily looking purely for a profitable business. Achieve the former and the profits will follow.

Most pertinent comment in the whole thread. That appeared to be McCabe once upon a time til he did a runner after winning the Tevez case.
Some of the nuts and bolts are there but there is no leadership, no focus, no commitment at the top.
We are reduced to a balance sheet - something some fans were keen to trumpet pretty stupidly not so long ago - and we lost our soul.
The notion that we are tilting our tickets next season at 'True Blades' and saying we are not going to do special offers is so inately thick you have to question the sanity of the people in charge.
We will almost certainly be in League One and we should be falling over ourselves with special offers, getting lapsed fans to go back (even if it's now and then) building stronger links through community groups, schools etc.
If there is any wrong decision to be made by the club at the moment you can bet they will make it.

 

[alcoblade]

Isiah: Finally we need a board interested in building a football club within a community crying out for a focus, not primarily looking purely for a profitable business. Achieve the former and the profits will follow.

Most pertinent comment in the whole thread. That appeared to be McCabe once upon a time til he did a runner after winning the Tevez case.
Some of the nuts and bolts are there but there is no leadership, no focus, no commitment at the top.
We are reduced to a balance sheet - something some fans were keen to trumpet pretty stupidly not so long ago - and we lost our soul.
The notion that we are tilting our tickets next season at 'True Blades' and saying we are not going to do special offers is so inately thick you have to question the sanity of the people in charge.
We will almost certainly be in League One and we should be falling over ourselves with special offers, getting lapsed fans to go back (even if it's now and then) building stronger links through community groups, schools etc.
If there is any wrong decision to be made by the club at the moment you can bet they will make it.

You make some very good points Len. But I think you are wrong re being critical of caring about the balance sheet. It's not doing so that has left us in the complete mess that we are now. If the club had focussed on the balance sheet they wouldn't have run up over £50 Million of debt, after receiving £50M in parachute, Tevez and Kyle money.

It wasn't focussing on the balance sheet that was the problem. It was spending too much money in all the wrong places.

UTB

 

[SteelCity Blade]

It wasn't focussing on the balance sheet that was the problem. It was spending too much money in all the wrong places.

There in a nutshell is the reason for where we are.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

There in a nutshell is the reason for where we are.

Disagree. We need investment & ambition. Instead we have a Board that prefers to sell. That's why we are where we are.

 

[alcoblade]

Disagree. We need investment & ambition. Instead we have a Board that prefers to sell. That's why we are where we are.

How much further into debt would you want us to go? Where does the money come from?

We had ambition. Just not the kind you, or I'd like. And it failed miserably. Now isn't the time for blowing more cash. And even if it were, nobody would give it to us.

UTB

 

[SwissBlade]

How much further into debt would you want us to go? Where does the money come fom?

We had ambition. Just not the kind you, or I'd like. And it failed miserably. Now isn't the time for blowing more cash. And even if it were, nobody would give it to us.

UTB

Ambition has never been lacking, turning ambition into a realistic target has been extremely misguided.

 

[oldblade]

Its not a wind up, serious question. All and sundry seem to be coming out of the wood work to not just moan, but to launch attacks from every angle at the club, board, team management, players and even the marketing department. Some of which is valid, but a large proportion is not.

There was a brief period of quiet following the Forest victory, but normal service has now resumed.

Thankfully we have fans at the games, like at Watford and Scunny who appreciate the predicament and are getting behind the team for 90 mins at least.

These fans will naturally be called dreamers or deluded, but for me we need the fans to do their bit. I never understood this constant desire to plunge the knife into the club when the chips are down. Or indeed slap down those that down share the negative view all the time

Of course there are some constructive comments even from those responsible for the vitoral, but the louder comments are always the digs.

Did we really need so many threads slating the club for its marketing campaign? Does Henderson, whom many saw as the messiah returning need to be subject to a "he should never play again" thread (on the same token why is Williamson immune to the same?). Does a sarcastic attempt to get Ryan France for player of the season serve any purpose? Or will suggesting *any sacked manager* to replace our 4th manager of the season achieve anything?

There are massive areas where we need to improve and I'd love to get into a discussion on how we can "theoretically" fix problems. Bergen's analysis into goals conceded and our defending last season was always a great read as were the discussions which followed.

I started a thread before Speed left on where we should improve, but the discussion part didn't last long. I wouldn't dream of starting such threads now. This forum is no longer a place for healthy debate, unfortunately its descended lower than our beloved team.

Of course people want us to turn things around! being critical of the club, players, management or whatever is not incompatible with wanting us to avoid relegation.

As for the criticism coming Henderson's way, what do you expect? His first appearance of the season and he gets sent off with less than half an hour on the clock.

In times of trouble you look to your 'big' players to get you out of it. Most would see Henderson and Williamson as two of our better players. Well, rather than helpng the cause they dropped us right in it. And to make it worse they are now suspended for 4 or 5 games between them. It's not really a surprise that many supporters feel they let the club, the supporters and the remaining 9 players down. Most of the people who paid to watch that game would be dismissed from their jobs instantly if they did something of a similar magnitude.

Had we won that game we would have been in with a chance of turning things round. Now we pretty much need a miracle. And with regard to Henderson, what made it worse was that his return to the squad was seen as a big boost, especially following on from the morale lifting win against Forest. In the end it proved to be no boost at all and it might have been better if he had never returned at all.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

How much further into debt would you want us to go? Where does the money come fom?

We had ambition. Just not the kind you, or I'd like. And it failed miserably. Now isn't the time for blowing more cash. And even if it were, nobody would give it to us.

UTB

I've never seen a clear or believable explanation of our "debt". Premiership money + Tevez money + parachute payments + massive player sales + big season ticket sales. It doesn't add up. As for balancing the books, if that's our aim then we will never have success. Very few, if any, successful teams balance the books. We need an owner & Board prepared to invest. Not so long ago we thought we had one. We were wrong.

 

[alcoblade]

I've never seen a clear or believable explanation of our "debt". Premiership money + Tevez money + parachute payments + massive player sales + big season ticket sales. It doesn't add up. As for balancing the books, if that's our aim then we will never have success. Very few, if any, successful teams balance the books. We need an owner & Board prepared to invest. Not so long ago we thought we had one. We were wrong.

Are you expecting a gift for investment? It never happens. The investment you were after was the huge debt we amassed. Thew ambition was the £20M+ wagebill on old washed up players, the property to give a lasting income, the Hotel, the club in China. It wasn't what you wanted but it was ambition. It failed.

The figures are in the accounts. We've never balanced the books. We just got it all wrong. Ambition can lead that way too.

UTB

 

[Rustyblade]

I've never seen a clear or believable explanation of our "debt". Premiership money + Tevez money + parachute payments + massive player sales + big season ticket sales. It doesn't add up. As for balancing the books, if that's our aim then we will never have success. Very few, if any, successful teams balance the books. We need an owner & Board prepared to invest. Not so long ago we thought we had one. We were wrong.

Then at least you should use your terms properly. What you are asking for could under no stretch of the imagination be called investment.

 

[lenners]

You make some very good points Len. But I think you are wrong re being critical of caring about the balance sheet. It's not doing so that has left us in the complete mess that we are now. If the club had focussed on the balance sheet they wouldn't have run up over £50 Million of debt, after receiving £50M in parachute, Tevez and Kyle money.

It wasn't focussing on the balance sheet that was the problem. It was spending too much money in all the wrong places.

UTB

Don't get me wrong, of course you have to take reasonable care with the finances, something McCabe spectacularly failed to do.
But there's nothing to stop the club being run sensibly and in a way that encourages a bond with supporters.
To me, that means getting as many good home grown players in the team as possible - and keeping them as far as possible.
And encouraging as many fans as possible to come and watch them.
Build a strong heart and the rest takes care of itself.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

Then at least you should use your terms properly. What you are asking for could under no stretch of the imagination be called investment.

Brilliant. Well done.

 

[oldblade]

You make some very good points Len. But I think you are wrong re being critical of caring about the balance sheet. It's not doing so that has left us in the complete mess that we are now. If the club had focussed on the balance sheet they wouldn't have run up over £50 Million of debt, after receiving £50M in parachute, Tevez and Kyle money.

It wasn't focussing on the balance sheet that was the problem. It was spending too much money in all the wrong places.

UTB

Very good point.

When we were actually focusing on the balance sheet between around 1999 until promotion, we actually made progress as a club.

 

[bricktop]

The downfall came with the vast investment in the playing staff that came in the summer of 2007.

Terry Robinson sowed the seeds by appointing Bryan Robson, and authorizing the signings of James Beattie and Lee Hendrie on wages and contract's that was not sustainable for a Championship club. With Robson we had the wrong man from the start, his reign was an unmitigated disaster, and the whole episode sowed the seeds for the clubs decline, and its got fat Terry's fingerprints all over it.

 

[alcoblade]

The downfall came with the vast investment in the playing staff that came in the summer of 2007.

Terry Robinson sowed the seeds by appointing Bryan Robson, and authorizing the signings of James Beattie and Lee Hendrie on wages and contract's that was not sustainable for a Championship club. With Robson we had the wrong man from the start, his reign was an unmitigated disaster, and the whole episode sowed the seeds for the clubs decline, and its got fat Terry's fingerprints all over it.

All perfectly true. As I say, that was ambition. Just proof that you can get it wrong being ambitious. The painful part was that it was so obvious up front.

UTB

 

[axel smeets]

The downfall came with the vast investment in the playing staff that came in the summer of 2007.

Terry Robinson sowed the seeds by appointing Bryan Robson, and authorizing the signings of James Beattie and Lee Hendrie on wages and contract's that was not sustainable for a Championship club. With Robson we had the wrong man from the start, his reign was an unmitigated disaster, and the whole episode sowed the seeds for the clubs decline, and its got fat Terry's fingerprints all over it.

Completely agree with that. If United had maintained the reasonable level of financial restraint that had been exercised between 1999 and 2006/7, surely we would not have been in the same predicament we are in now.
I remember being incredulous when hearing that cunt had got the job in May 2007. Someone who had acheived limited success at Middlesbrough by spending the budget of a developing African nation.

Imagine the calibre of applicants that would have come forward to take that job in summer 2007? Off the top of my head, 2 I can think of are Pulis and Dave Jones. Someone who could have assembled a team on a smaller budget that was greater than the sum of its parts. Just like Warnock did.
Even if we had retained him that summer and he had not taken us back up by say 2009 ( the end of the parachute payments), you'd have to be pretty sure that he would not have been given big sums to spend in the championship by McCabe anyway, ergo we wouldn't have had a massive wage bill and a big expenditure on players.

 

[bricktop]

We should have appointed someone who could have taken us on, and built on what we already had, rather than needlessly dismantling the side that nearly kept us in the Premiership.

As much as people hated Blackwell, its worth mentioning that when he first came in, it was no suprise we went from being in danger of being sucked in to the relegation battle on the back of some shit results, to almost making the play-offs playing the fast, direct football that if we had played all season with that team, we would have gone straight back up.

 

[axel smeets]

Yeah, plus WBA went up as champions with only 82 points that year, 70 was enough for a play off spot. Blackwell's biggest problem for me was when he signed his contract. From February until May, United rose from 18th to 9th. Blackwell's team, as you say, played fast, direct football with no fear, and a straight 4-4-2.

A classic example is when we beat Hull 2-0 in late April. Morgan was dismissed, but he went 3-4-2 and kept Sharp and Beattie up front. The remaining 2 years of his reign, he would have gone 4-4-1. The point I'm trying to make is that Blackwell had Sharp, Beattie, Howard, Cotterill, Tonge, Halford and still opted to play 4-5-1 in his away matches when he had a wealth of attacking options at his disposal.

 

[BaldeRunner]

This forum is no longer a place for healthy debate, unfortunately its descended lower than our beloved team.

"Go and do something about it then instead of pissing around being all precious about an apology, if you're lucky you might even get a cuddle" (Swiss Blade, 06/03/11)

Healthy debate? Gotta practice a bit of what you preach Swiss

Having said that I will challenge your point constructively. You say that a 'large proportion' of the criticism on these boards is not valid. I honestly can't agree with that. I don't think personal abuse or insults are ever either useful or effective so i am not counting those posts. In my 40 years of supporting the Blades I think we are witnessing the most inept board and managerial performance we have ever seen. We have every right to challenge, criticise and question what is going on because we are the ones who are expected to pay the wages of these people. That inevitably will bring in some vitriol, not a little sarcasm and also some quite amusing comments. A board like this has room for all types of posts and let's face it at times like this is has to act as a catharsis for what we are all enduring. To answer your point more specifically, I really don't know where we go from here. But then Im not earning vast sums of money to come up with the solutions - I'm just a paying punter. My starting point last week was for McCabe to apologise, to acknowledge the mistakes and to rebuild from that starting point of honesty with the fans so we could feel we were somehow part of the club again and sharing in the rebuilding. I don't think you liked or agreed with that suggestion. We are going down and that is nothng short of a disgrace for this club. For the moment, the club deserves all the criticism it is getting and, for now, debates on how we fans would put it right is really just fiddling while Rome burns

 

[SwissBlade]

"Go and do something about it then instead of pissing around being all precious about an apology, if you're lucky you might even get a cuddle" (Swiss Blade, 06/03/11)

Healthy debate? Gotta practice a bit of what you preach Swiss

I fully agree BaldeRunner, actually that thread was one of the ones that got my back up

I saw no purpose to it. So I (eventually) went away and left it and I've tried not to get drawn in to those types of threads.

Having said that I will challenge your point constructively. You say that a 'large proportion' of the criticism on these boards is not valid. I honestly can't agree with that. I don't think personal abuse or insults are ever either useful or effective so i am not counting those posts. In my 40 years of supporting the Blades I think we are witnessing the most inept board and managerial performance we have ever seen. We have every right to challenge, criticise and question what is going on because we are the ones who are expected to pay the wages of these people. That inevitably will bring in some vitriol, not a little sarcasm and also some quite amusing comments. A board like this has room for all types of posts and let's face it at times like this is has to act as a catharsis for what we are all enduring. To answer your point more specifically, I really don't know where we go from here. But then Im not earning vast sums of money to come up with the solutions - I'm just a paying punter. My starting point last week was for McCabe to apologise, to acknowledge the mistakes and to rebuild from that starting point of honesty with the fans so we could feel we were somehow part of the club again and sharing in the rebuilding. I don't think you liked or agreed with that suggestion. We are going down and that is nothng short of a disgrace for this club. For the moment, the club deserves all the criticism it is getting and, for now, debates on how we fans would put it right is really just fiddling while Rome burns

Perhaps large proportion is an exacgeration, it just appears that a lot of the threads now are either duplication (Henderson, Neil Collins etc) or just drivel. But I was also counting the posts with abuse and insults because they all count... I don't see many of them getting deleted.

I never said not to challenge or criticise.

As for McCabe to acknowledge his mistakes, then fair enough, but he has done this before thats different to an apology and that was what I had a problem with.

The honesty one is a big one for me, I've never paid that much attention to a lot of what McCabe has said unless it relates directly to matters on the field. So i'd be interested to know what he's lied on. Was it the loan players thing?

We are most likely going down and yes the club deserves criticism. But I see no problem in debating where we should improve, I work in a project environment where things don't go to plan and you have to do things to get the job done, there are times when we have to debate what went wrong, but most of the time we look at where we need to improve so we don't make the same mistakes.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

Disagree. We need investment & ambition. Instead we have a Board that prefers to sell. That's why we are where we are.

I've never seen a clear or believable explanation of our "debt". Premiership money + Tevez money + parachute payments + massive player sales + big season ticket sales. It doesn't add up. As for balancing the books, if that's our aim then we will never have success. Very few, if any, successful teams balance the books. We need an owner & Board prepared to invest. Not so long ago we thought we had one. We were wrong.

As Alco said, how much debt do you want the club to have Deano? Our debts were clearly accounted for and were shown in black and white. A 20M wage bill is massive at this level.....add another 14M to that the year after along with all of the players we bought, agents fees, running costs, what happened with the hotel.....believe me Deano it does add up. The Tevez money is just enough to cover our bank debts by all accounts.

You're using this word "investment" like its one to be flouted around carelessly. Are we to expect our owner to just throw money at it then and never expect a penny back? There is a reason he ended up a multi-millionaire and it wasnt by giving money away. He's already tried that with United and at the moment he's running at a personal loss. I'm not defending McCabe at all because he's made some daft decisions and he has a lot to answer for in those terms. But to suggest the man lacked ambition for Sheffield United is wide of the mark. Of all the things he could be accused of getting wrong that is the last on the list.

It cant go on forever and at some point a football club has to be able to sustain itself. I want to see a club that achieves off its own back. I dont want to watch a rich boys toy that will ultimately end in tears when the funding stops. The problem as Alco originally pointed out, was where we spent the money - in all the wrong places. In fact we did it all at the wrong time as well because we waited until we were relegated. Poor decisions, not a lack of ambition.....the reason we dont appear to be ambitious now is because we no longer have the means to be.

 

[oldblade]

Disagree. We need investment & ambition. Instead we have a Board that prefers to sell. That's why we are where we are.

I think it's our ambition that is just as much responsible for getting us in this mess as anything else.

Some words written by Derek Dooley in his auto biography some 11 years ago seem startlingly apt today:

I quote from chapter 39, "There have been many examples of clubs getting into difficulties because they have spent big money on players and paid higher wages than they could afford, then failed to generate the success required to make the investment viable. It is rather like trying to walk up a fast-moving down escalator - there comes a time when you realise you have not only made no progress but actually moved backwards. Moreover, you have used up all the resources you need to keep trying to climb.

In Sheffield, both United and Wednesday have suffered the trauma inherent in the philosophy of seeking to speculate to accumulate. To gamble is great when it succeeds, but when it doesn't you can end up facing far more problems than you started with."

 

[j j]

Some words written by Derek Dooley in his auto biography some 11 years ago seem startlingly apt today:

I quote from chapter 39, "There have been many examples of clubs getting into difficulties because they have spent big money on players and paid higher wages than they could afford, then failed to generate the success required to make the investment viable. It is rather like trying to walk up a fast-moving down escalator - there comes a time when you realise you have not only made no progress but actually moved backwards. Moreover, you have used up all the resources you need to keep trying to climb.

In Sheffield, both United and Wednesday have suffered the trauma inherent in the philosophy of seeking to speculate to accumulate. To gamble is great when it succeeds, but when it doesn't you can end up facing far more problems than you started with."

Wise words from DD. We should build a statue to that fella. Our poor position (league and finances) now come directly from ambition and so-called investment (i.e. chucking money around). The time for prudence was when we came down. Now we have to pay for bets we placed then on horses that didn't come in. Neither I nor anyone I know was saying we shouldn't sign players such as Beattie at the time, but in hindsight it was a mistake and we should have looked for more affordable options (or offered him and others much less money to play for United). Of course, had we won at Wembley it would all have been OK until at some point when we came down again and found ourselves in a similar position to Portsmouth (or whoever). As it is, we now have to pay for what we nearly had then and in my opinion we should take it on the chin instead of moaning that McCabe promised us European football by now (or whatever).

 

[JohnDenver]

Neither I nor anyone I know was saying we shouldn't sign players such as Beattie at the time

I did - was never comfortable with it on any level. It was clearly a do or die throw of the dice from a very irked chairman after the Tevez nonsense.

Having said that, what I didn't expect was that when the gamble was abandoned we'd mismanage our resources quite so spectacularly. Just about everything we've done after Wembley has been uniformly pathetic.

 

[oldblade]

On the BU site which was still running at that time, I and quite a few others were a bit alarmed at the rumoured wage level that Beattie was on. Apart from the financial implications, I felt it could be divisive within the squad to have a player on far and away higher wages than anyone else. I suppose it was territory we'd never been in before.