Time for new blood

[Lane Ender]

While most of the squad are good enough for a promotion push from the championship, the problem is most aren't good enough for the premier league. Without major surgery we face the prospect of repeating the same failures.
With that in mind 2 to 3 players should be added to the squad on a return to the PL which means in the championship 8 of the starting team have to be PL capable.
Looking at the team as it is now there are only a few players who should be with us on that journey.
Rammers.
Bogle.
Egan.
JOC.
Some of the younger members of the squad may develop but realistically I think we need a totally new midfield. Older guys like Didsy and Sharp may have a role to play in the championship due to their ability and attitude. But hard choices need to be made and the recruitment process needs a complete overhaul. Maybe there is the salary constraints to consider but so far recruitment has been dire.
Mousset: Shambles.
McBurnie: not good enough.
Brewster: May come good but looks like a dud so far.
Rammers: over priced.
Bogle: good value
Lowe: from the bits I have seen he doesn't know how to defend. So in recruitment terms poor.
Berge: can play but doesn't suit how we are set up. May not get our money back.
Burke: not good enough.
Osborn: busy and energetic but just a squad player even in the championship.
Rodwell: Who?
So based on that view it's not about spending big but being smart enough to find real value. That is where Brentford have excelled. Leeds arrival in PL has meant them spending a bit but they have bought better quality than we have.

To summarise, our squad of misfits needs to be overhauled and a long term view taken so that we progressively build a better team capable of staying in the PL

That four plus Brewster and Berge the rest are yesterdays news and misfits Ok you may say Brewster is a misfit but he has been mismanaged by Wilder

 

[JJBlade]

I doubt he will change the system though. It might depend on whether Berge stays but that doesn’t look likely.
We should have some serious coin coming in from the Berge sale and I’d spend a fair bit of it on a new creative midfield player.

We will need a decent size squad and Freeman can work hard to get his way into the team.

Not sure how serious coin will be coming in for Berge.

I can't see how we'd get our money back

And a loss isn't serious coin.

 

[ancientblade]

Not sure how serious coin will be coming in for Berge.

I can't see how we'd get our money back

And a loss isn't serious coin.

i think we might if rumours are correct about arsenal and villa being interested in any case united should put a 25m price on his head and see what occurs

 

[BlairBlade]

Agree with most of that sadly. I think fleck was just starting to regain his form and mcburnie cops a lot of stick due to the hopeful punts in his direction. Norwood looks done at this level. If the likes of brunt and ndiaye can't offer more than him then I will be worried for next season. A big clear out is needed.

Not so sure that McBurnie is at that much fault.
He is not a centre forward or target man that you hoof balls up to.
However, we do. Presumably as schooled on the training pitch.
He scored goals for fun at Swansea but we play him in a different position and in a totally different set-up.
Maybe it is his fault, although I don’t agree, but there are others who bear much more responsibility.

LOL at those figures. Give Football Manager a rest.

Nobody is looking at JOC after a season out, let alone giving us 25m for him
Egan is not worth 20m
After the injury we won't get back what we paid for Berge. Only if he rips it up before the end of the season (which he won't)
Baldock might be worth a 10m punt for some PL team but we genuinely need him around next season

I know someone posted, weeks ago, that they thought that the team started to go downhill when Berge arrived.
Not sure.
But he hasn’t ripped it up since he arrived and is never going to in this team.
What bemuses, and confuses, me is that CW said that he wanted to build the team around Berge and now says he always knew he wouldn’t be around long and we would be a stepping stone for him.
I don’t hold that against Berge. But what was the point of buying him?
Surely £23 million could have been far better spent?
Obviously, with hindsight that is stating the bleeding obvious.
Although the bleeding obvious is not always something that people have been willing to say.

 

[Tezza1889]

It's easy now to point out the transfer failings of Wilder, the whole team has failed pretty much all season, so in turn the signings haven't worked out.

But, remember the "model" that wilder had set up on the type of player we'll sign, young, with potential to develop, and a resale value should we hit the iceberg so to speak, so, don't worry too much about them failing this season in an extremely unpredictable premier league, the signs going forward look good if you take a long term view on our situation..

All that has to happen after relegation in my opinion, is that the players are professional and don't start to feel sorry for themselves, the relegation hangover can not happen under any circumstances.. So I hope Wilder makes that very clear at the end of this season..

We start next season like we started this one, heads should roll...

 

[Smirth]

Stevens, Norwood and Fleck will all still be with us next season and rightfully first choice too so no need to cast them aside.

Norwood is proven to be a very good Championship player and at 29 going on 30 will be fine next season as first choice. If we have a successful season and win promotion then we will need to look at replacing him but we should be worrying about that when that happens and not before. There's no point discarding him next season just because he's not good enough for the Premier League whilst we play our football in the Championship.

Fleck has had a stop start season but has proven in his time here how good he is, there is absolutely no reason to move on from him and even if we did, we'd have to pay a lot of money to get a player close to as good as he can be. He's also proven over last season that he could cut it at the top level.

Stevens, whilst having a really poor 12 months or so, is still under contract and at 30 going on 31 is not going to be wanted by another club. I'd back him to get back to his previous levels again in the Championship and is better than Lowe who I think is a very average Championship player. If we could move him on and bring in someone better who can challenge and potentially even succeed Stevens then that would be ideal. We now have that competition on the right with Baldock and Bogle and I can see Bogle being preferred in the Championship as he's a far superior attacking threat than Baldock is.

There's no chance McBurnie will go anywhere, no one will be willing to pay for him and Wilder really rates him so I expect he'll be first choice next season. I've no real concerns there as he's proven to be a good Championship player and if we play to his strengths rather than lumping the ball up to him then I expect he'll do fine and could form a fruitful partnership with Sharp or Brewster.

The bigger issue for me is that our forward line is really bloated with Sharp, McBurnie, McGoldrick, Brewster, Mousset and Burke all under contract next season. There's no justification in having that many strikers so we need 2 or 3 to leave on loan somewhere as I doubt we'd get a fee for any of them on a permanent transfer. I'm struggling to see particularly how Mousset and Burke fit in to our playing style in the Championship if we go the same away as we did in the 18/19 season. That would be harsh on Burke who's done well this season, albeit in a poor team. McGoldrick will still be useful as he can drop and play as a number 10 but we'd need to strengthen that position with a specialist rather than relying on him playing out of position, that is assuming that we set up similarly to how we did in the promotion season with Duffy filling that creative role.

 

[Vikkster]

Rather than go to the expense of setting up a recruitment team and servicing their ongoing costs, why don’t we do to Brentford, what Villa do to us?

We keep our ear to the ground, maybe have an inside man, let them identify the player they want, then as soon as they make their move, ‘Boom’ we come in and offer him another fifty quid a week.

Problem solved, you can thank me later Chris

 

[N20 Blade]

Stevens, Norwood and Fleck will all still be with us next season and rightfully first choice too so no need to cast them aside.

Norwood is proven to be a very good Championship player and at 29 going on 30 will be fine next season as first choice. If we have a successful season and win promotion then we will need to look at replacing him but we should be worrying about that when that happens and not before. There's no point discarding him next season just because he's not good enough for the Premier League whilst we play our football in the Championship.

Fleck has had a stop start season but has proven in his time here how good he is, there is absolutely no reason to move on from him and even if we did, we'd have to pay a lot of money to get a player close to as good as he can be. He's also proven over last season that he could cut it at the top level.

Stevens, whilst having a really poor 12 months or so, is still under contract and at 30 going on 31 is not going to be wanted by another club. I'd back him to get back to his previous levels again in the Championship and is better than Lowe who I think is a very average Championship player. If we could move him on and bring in someone better who can challenge and potentially even succeed Stevens then that would be ideal. We now have that competition on the right with Baldock and Bogle and I can see Bogle being preferred in the Championship as he's a far superior attacking threat than Baldock is.

There's no chance McBurnie will go anywhere, no one will be willing to pay for him and Wilder really rates him so I expect he'll be first choice next season. I've no real concerns there as he's proven to be a good Championship player and if we play to his strengths rather than lumping the ball up to him then I expect he'll do fine and could form a fruitful partnership with Sharp or Brewster.

The bigger issue for me is that our forward line is really bloated with Sharp, McBurnie, McGoldrick, Brewster, Mousset and Burke all under contract next season. There's no justification in having that many strikers so we need 2 or 3 to leave on loan somewhere as I doubt we'd get a fee for any of them on a permanent transfer. I'm struggling to see particularly how Mousset and Burke fit in to our playing style in the Championship if we go the same away as we did in the 18/19 season. That would be harsh on Burke who's done well this season, albeit in a poor team. McGoldrick will still be useful as he can drop and play as a number 10 but we'd need to strengthen that position with a specialist rather than relying on him playing out of position, that is assuming that we set up similarly to how we did in the promotion season with Duffy filling that creative role.

Unfortunately, I think that Stevens, Norwood and Fleck are a busted flush in PL terms. It's clear they're below the standard required, even more so in 18 months time, in the unlikely event we're promoted. Subconsciously, this will have an impact on their championship credentials next season, as they'll know full well that promotion equals the end of their United careers. They're on the way down professionally and will spend one or two seasons tops in the second tier before drifting further down the leagues if they need the money, or simply call it a day, if they don't. They've been great servants to the club and in Fleck's case he is a genuine United hero, given his exploits but their time is in the past now. We need fresh blood and fast.

You say Burke has done well this season, but in what regard? He's run around a lot. He's fast. He's enthusiastic and hard working. Unfortunately, like WBA fans forewarned, I don't see quality, finishing, technical ability, etc. Once again, if Burke is going to be part of the United fabric next season, then I'm worried, very worried and looking down not up.

Sorry to be negative but a strong start is a necessity next season and we have to be prepared better than ever to hit the ground running. That seems highly unlikely at the moment.

 

[Lowen]

If we don't sign players that are more than capable of replacing the old guard then we are doomed. It's a big call for Wilder in the summer but it has to be done, I don't mind all of them staying and being part of the squad but if they are to be first choice week in week out next season it will be because they are putting in consistently excellent performances and are keeping other good players out and not because we've blindly trusted them for another season and signed inadequate backup players.

 

[Smirth]

Unfortunately, I think that Stevens, Norwood and Fleck are a busted flush in PL terms. It's clear they're below the standard required, even more so in 18 months time, in the unlikely event we're promoted. Subconsciously, this will have an impact on their championship credentials next season, as they'll know full well that promotion equals the end of their United careers. They're on the way down professionally and will spend one or two seasons tops in the second tier before drifting further down the leagues if they need the money, or simply call it a day, if they don't. They've been great servants to the club and in Fleck's case he is a genuine United hero, given his exploits but their time is in the past now. We need fresh blood and fast.

You say Burke has done well this season, but in what regard? He's run around a lot. He's fast. He's enthusiastic and hard working. Unfortunately, like WBA fans forewarned, I don't see quality, finishing, technical ability, etc. Once again, if Burke is going to be part of the United fabric next season, then I'm worried, very worried and looking down not up.

Sorry to be negative but a strong start is a necessity next season and we have to be prepared better than ever to hit the ground running. That seems highly unlikely at the moment.

It's a fair argument that they won't be good enough for the Premier League in 18 months time, but I don't think that should count against them being a part of a Championship team next season. Getting rid of Fleck & Norwood combined with the loss of Lundstram will mean integrating a brand new midfield which given our unique style (at least that's what it was before this horror of a season) will be very difficult. I'd much rather keep them and have them as part of the team given we know how good they are at this level and they are both professional players, they shouldn't be concerned about being dumped the season after.

I must admit I'd completely forgotten about RND when I posted above. I'd hope he can challenge and usurp Stevens next season, because Max Lowe is not the answer.

I suppose my point on Burke is just that it would be harsh on him personally as he's been the best of a bad bunch in terms of what he's offered us this season, and of the few brief sparks of enjoyment this season he's played a part them. I won't be upset to see him go and he should go, it's just another example of poor recruitment.

 

[ancientblade]

It's a fair argument that they won't be good enough for the Premier League in 18 months time, but I don't think that should count against them being a part of a Championship team next season. Getting rid of Fleck & Norwood combined with the loss of Lundstram will mean integrating a brand new midfield which given our unique style (at least that's what it was before this horror of a season) will be very difficult. I'd much rather keep them and have them as part of the team given we know how good they are at this level and they are both professional players, they shouldn't be concerned about being dumped the season after.

I must admit I'd completely forgotten about RND when I posted above. I'd hope he can challenge and usurp Stevens next season, because Max Lowe is not the answer.

I suppose my point on Burke is just that it would be harsh on him personally as he's been the best of a bad bunch in terms of what he's offered us this season, and of the few brief sparks of enjoyment this season he's played a part them. I won't be upset to see him go and he should go, it's just another example of poor recruitment.

for me osborn is our best lwb hes not a midfielder too lightweight as for mcburnie im not sure he will do it at championship level anymore never rated him

 

[madeinsheffield]

Some of our players should be trying a lot harder than they currently are, there’s a chance if we do go down they’ll never be premier league players again in their career, even if we bounce back

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

As others have said, the issue for me is that we now have a squad which has been shown as been woefully short of PL standard and has stagnated in the past 12 months.

Despite what Tufty says we really need to turn over a large number of it.

One of his biggest successes in the championship was turning the squad/team over without us realising most of the League One side were no longer featuring! Indeed only JOC, Bash and Fleck were left as first team regulars.

He's failed to do that this year and it's shown.

We need to bring some athleticism and hunger into the squad.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Some of our players should be trying a lot harder than they currently are, there’s a chance if we do go down they’ll never be premier league players again in their career, even if we bounce back

I'd like to think if we do bounce back in the next two seasons, they'd only be 1 or 2 of the current squad on Day 1 of the PL season...

I'm at the point now where I can make a case for shipping any/all of the current squad...

 

[SWB]

The board really need to shake things up regarding player recruitment.

If I was Prince Abdullah I would be telling Wilder that we are changing strategy and scouting and signing players from Europe and South America from now on as we can't afford 10-20 million pound gambles anymore.

Who's boss? CW should be told that he will no longer be in charge of recruitment.

We will have to be cuter with our recruitment and aim to bring through some of our youth prospects next season.

Our fringe players should be released and supplemented by our young youth prospects and loans from the PL.

I would look to bring Freeman in from the cold and look at bringing back the 10 role.

stick to the playstation

 

[Sheff de party]

Not sure how serious coin will be coming in for Berge.

I can't see how we'd get our money back

And a loss isn't serious coin.

He signed a four and a half year contract when he signed, so will have three years left when we go down. We have a richer owner and parachute payments. No need to sell, so it’ll take a profit to prise him away.

Him or his agent can get bent if they think he’s leaving for less than what we paid.

I’m coming round to the idea that he won’t actually leave, but everyone else says he will.

 

[bladesmanluke]

He signed a four and a half year contract when he signed, so will have three years left when we go down. We have a richer owner and parachute payments. No need to sell, so it’ll take a profit to prise him away.

Him or his agent can get bent if they think he’s leaving for less than what we paid.

I’m coming round to the idea that he won’t actually leave, but everyone else says he will.

I also don't think he'll leave. We won't get offered what we want for him so why should we sell?

 

[JJBlade]

I also don't think he'll leave. We won't get offered what we want for him so why should we sell?

We'll be trying to save his wages,

It won't do, having a player play for us who will be one of the top earners in the division in which we are playing.

It goes against all our principles

 

[ancientblade]

chris has as good as told us that berge will be leaving and i think this rumour with villa could be beneficial for us we know their not adverse to over paying for players so they may pay 25m for him or maybe a bit less and throw a player or two in to the mix hourihanne would be interesting for a start to give fleck some competition

 

[guancheblade]

What bemuses, and confuses, me is that CW said that he wanted to build the team around Berge and now says he always knew he wouldn’t be around long and we would be a stepping stone for him.

I think the key difference between Wilder's statements then and now is that when we signed Berge we weren't staring relegation in the face and were in with a shout of Champions League qualification.

So yes it would be very optimistic for a team heading into the Championship to build a team around Sander when he's out the door first chance he gets.

 

[BladeTillIDie]

Dont mind Stevens and Norwood staying as squad players but they shouldn't be first teamers. RND will be a good replacement at LWB. Also Osborn has impressed in that position too..

 

[N20 Blade]

It's a fair argument that they won't be good enough for the Premier League in 18 months time, but I don't think that should count against them being a part of a Championship team next season. Getting rid of Fleck & Norwood combined with the loss of Lundstram will mean integrating a brand new midfield which given our unique style (at least that's what it was before this horror of a season) will be very difficult. I'd much rather keep them and have them as part of the team given we know how good they are at this level and they are both professional players, they shouldn't be concerned about being dumped the season after.

I must admit I'd completely forgotten about RND when I posted above. I'd hope he can challenge and usurp Stevens next season, because Max Lowe is not the answer.

I suppose my point on Burke is just that it would be harsh on him personally as he's been the best of a bad bunch in terms of what he's offered us this season, and of the few brief sparks of enjoyment this season he's played a part them. I won't be upset to see him go and he should go, it's just another example of poor recruitment.

On reflection, you're probably right re Fleck and Norwood, worth giving a go I guess, just worry what happens if they don't do well, as there won't be a Plan B again. Definitely time to give RND his chance and take it from there.

'Best of a bad bunch' sums up our transfer activity doesn't it? He'll certainly find things easier next season, so again why not give it a go.

 

[Nah den]

On reflection, you're probably right re Fleck and Norwood, worth giving a go I guess, just worry what happens if they don't do well, as there won't be a Plan B again. Definitely time to give RND his chance and take it from there.

'Best of a bad bunch' sums up our transfer activity doesn't it? He'll certainly find things easier next season, so again why not give it a go.

Norwood clearly isn't up to the pace of the PL. And I don't think Fleck is either. Last season was better but only 5 goals and 2 assists I think, this year no goals and 2 assists so far. Not a very good return for our supposed more attacking midfielder. He's often anonymous in games. Everyone seemed to be suggesting he'd been great against Man City, but other than a decent shot that went wide he did not much other than give the ball away, as did everyone else, hence why we had something like 23%. Against Fulham, first half one of their players on our left went past him like he wasn't there. In a league full of powerful athletes he's just too small and too slow.

However, can probably still do a job in the Championship, but I'd like some stiff competition for him. And he'd need replacing if we were to bounce back.

 

[Kev Gee]

stick to the playstation

Fuck off pal.

 

[Speedracer]

Norwood clearly isn't up to the pace of the PL. And I don't think Fleck is either. Last season was better but only 5 goals and 2 assists I think, this year no goals and 2 assists so far. Not a very good return for our supposed more attacking midfielder. He's often anonymous in games. Everyone seemed to be suggesting he'd been great against Man City, but other than a decent shot that went wide he did not much other than give the ball away, as did everyone else, hence why we had something like 23%. Against Fulham, first half one of their players on our left went past him like he wasn't there. In a league full of powerful athletes he's just too small and too slow.

However, can probably still do a job in the Championship, but I'd like some stiff competition for him. And he'd need replacing if we were to bounce back.

Fleck is one player I have sympathy with this season, picking up a few injuries along the way was never going to help a player who is a slow starter anyway, & I have no idea how he finished the Fulham game on the pitch. It was obvious he was struggling all game and the last 20 minutes must have really hurt, he was proper hobbling when he was walking never mind running, I couldn't believe he wasn't taken off.

 

[BanderSerge]

Unfortunately, I think that Stevens, Norwood and Fleck are a busted flush in PL terms. It's clear they're below the standard required, even more so in 18 months time, in the unlikely event we're promoted. Subconsciously, this will have an impact on their championship credentials next season, as they'll know full well that promotion equals the end of their United careers. They're on the way down professionally and will spend one or two seasons tops in the second tier before drifting further down the leagues if they need the money, or simply call it a day, if they don't. They've been great servants to the club and in Fleck's case he is a genuine United hero, given his exploits but their time is in the past now. We need fresh blood and fast.

You say Burke has done well this season, but in what regard? He's run around a lot. He's fast. He's enthusiastic and hard working. Unfortunately, like WBA fans forewarned, I don't see quality, finishing, technical ability, etc. Once again, if Burke is going to be part of the United fabric next season, then I'm worried, very worried and looking down not up.

Sorry to be negative but a strong start is a necessity next season and we have to be prepared better than ever to hit the ground running. That seems highly unlikely at the moment.

Fleck? I’ll give you Norwood and Stevens. Burke is not a out and out striker , he’s a winger, forced to play up top because he’s the only one with pace.

 

[SWB]

Fuck off pal.

ok

 

[BlairBlade]

Bert Trautmann played with a broken neck!

Your point being.....?

Yes. But he was German. Man Citeh were way ahead of their time.

 

[Mumbo]

It has been pointed out many times before how clubs like Brentford manage to bring in quality players from here and overseas and often make good money on them when they do sell, so you have to wonder about our scouting network!

Brentford have created a culture and a brand of football where strikers thrive,every year they sell and another one steps in.Hope they get promoted.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Not sure how serious coin will be coming in for Berge.

I can't see how we'd get our money back

And a loss isn't serious coin.

Norwegian International alone must entitle us to our money back.