Could going down be such a bad thing ?

[Chabuddy G]

Kid yourself if you want, that's fine.
There is nothing that beats being one of the top 20 clubs in the country. Playing against the biggest in the country every single week, watching world class players come to the Lane, going to some the best grounds in the world every few weeks, and the global exposure. Nothing comes close.

And I'm not even going to go into the financials of it. Just thank fuck we were in the Prem when covid reared it's ugly head. God knows what long term shit it's going to have on those in the Championship with smaller budgets like we had. The parachute payments will help us.

Don't lie to yourselves, you don't 'prefer the Championship' - you're just trying to find solace in relegation.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

From a personal point of view ,the reason I follow Utd ,apart from it being a lifelong family tradition ,is I get to meet up with my mates ,travel the country ,have plenty to drink and watch Utd hopefully win. I dont go to watch the opposition ,of course I want us to do well and the pinnacle for me is seeing us in Europe ,but I would take a good win at Bristol Rovers over a 1-0 defeat due to Var at West ham any day of the week. Going to Qpr is just as much fun as going to Arsenal ,going to Preston is more fun than going to Man City. Of course I want us to go up again ,but I would prefer the variety ,rather than being like Palace ,perennial strugglers , just making up the numbers as fodder for the money making racket called the premier league. Leeds away and Hull away were better than anything the premier league gave us.

Two of the three seasons we've had in the PL this century have not been very enjoyable for all the reasons you list and many more besides. The PL provides memorable moments to relish far less frequently that playing in the Championship and even the FA Cup. Being permanent underdogs - and often no-hopers - isn't much fun if it goes on too long. I see the attractiveness of yo-yoing over a relegation battle (even a successful one) season after season after season.

Can I ask the people on here who say they'd rather be in the Championship, what are you actually aiming for in the football club? Would you rather us come midtable every season in the Championship because that's your favourite leave/day out whatever. How are we going to progress with a mentality like that?

The whole reason you exist as a football club is to be at the top otherwise the whole league system is a waste of time, please think before you say "I'd rather be in the Championship" it has no weight behind the statement at all. It makes you just sound salty because we are probably going to be in that league the next season.

As a fan I want a number of things, some of the chief ones being that I want to be entertained, enjoy the game and I want to feel proud of the team I support. It's why I'd rather see attacking football and a loss than defensive football and a 0-0. Part of that ability to be entertained relies on my club having a chance of winning and particularly winning by good play in a game where the players go toe to toe, not by nicking a fluke break-away goal after 90 minutes of 20% possession.
The PL is too down-heartening and miserable for me supporting United. On that basis, I get more pleasure out of us being in the Championship, but there are more reasons beside that. (Granted a bad season in the Championship is even worse).
Normally I wouldn't say so out loud because, as you say, it sounds like an excuse for dropping anyway.
If every season could be like last season, then great, but even then the best we can hope for is sneaking in to the secondary European competition. We're not actually going to win anything.

The paradox is that I want us to go out to win every game we play, league or cup. Being great in the Championship and having the most entertainment and enjoyment leads to a season of getting out-played, losses, a relegation struggle, getting sneered at and dismissed by all and sundry, and overall misery. And no, I don't get enjoyment out of watching another team's world class player dance around our defenders.
I am also aware that to overcome this circle you have to keep getting to the PL, slowly building and getting better, but really, who has achieved that? Leicester? Is it too early to say that anyway? It's the PL that's broken, but it is how it is. The best we can hope for is to achieve a regular mid-table finish, where we all fret about relegation until it looks like we're safe around January, then play out the rest of the games without much to play for.

What everyone really wants, to join the big boys, be a PL permanent fixture, win some serious silverware, just isn't within our realistic grasp and although I will carry on (vainly) hoping that we achieve that, carry on wanting us to drive for promotion from the Championship, carry on avoiding relegation from the PL, I can acknowledge that because the PL is how it is, I enjoy the Championship more.

 

[jt64]

Not sure id describe Mcburnie as exciting or young, id go as far as saying its the opposite of exciting when i see hes in the starting line up. Also not really found Brewster particularly exciting so far but still hopeful he can play football.

All in the eye of the beholder. Edwards described Lingard as that on radio last game and he's four years older than McBurnie

 

[true99blade]

I personally had more fun in the two promotions under Wilder than finishing 9th in the Prem last season, not to say it wasn’t fun at all, it was absolutely great at times. Obviously I want us to be as successful as possible but the Premier League is the pinnacle of corruption and bias, it’s fucking dreadful at times. Like someone alluded to, give me an away day at Preston over most of the plastic dumps in the Premier League.

Relegation to the Championship is not a death sentence, and anyone comparing relegation this season with the relegation to League One in 2011 with McCabe need to wake up.

 

[ZoneManWilf]

I see both sides of this, but it is possible for mid sized clubs to break into the top echelon, look at Leicester.

Even if you just establish as a 12th-15th type of premier league side it gives you the squad to try and win a cup, and if you get relegated, the cash to let you bounce back quicker if managed well (Burnley, probably Norwich).

We need to aim to be at least a yo-yo type club in the short-ish term and get back out of the championship within a couple of seasons. That's what should have happened in 2007 but for the unspeakable one being appointed by his mate Turry, set us back a decade. How we bounce back next season will be so important, I hope fans are back in to see it.

 

[Woodward's Currie]

i dont prefer to be in the championship but whats the point being in a league where you cant compete financially and that is the premier league at this time until we can pay premier league salaries its just a waste of time i would sooner see us winning some games at a lower level than getting beat every week which is what is happening this season so i disagree with your post sorry

If we are not in the top league we will never bridge that gap. Infact every season out makes the gap bigger

 

[The Crab]

If we are not in the top league we will never bridge that gap. Infact every season out makes the gap bigger

I think to have any chance of bridging the gap, you'd need to be talking about Leicester / Wolves levels of investment. Not slating The Prince, but we're nowhere near that level of investment sadly

 

[BanderSerge]

I'm with Deadbat on this. Only other thing I want to add is that we've a poor record on bouncing straight back. 14, 12 and 12 years on the 3 occasions since 1976.

in the first 87 years of our history we spent 56 seasons in Division 1. With 10 years lost to War that's 56 out 77. We did that with a 3 sided ground.

We've done 6 out of last 45 seasons in top Division since then. Without sounding like the deluded across the City we should aspire for more.

We’ve got CWAK now, plus the best ever chairman in my lifetime. Plus the squad is a million times stronger than the start of our last championship season.

 

[The Crab]

best ever chairman in my lifetime.

To be fair mate with our boardroom history, its like saying getting a Blowjob off Dracula is better than having your cock chopped off with a rusty knife.............

 

[BanderSerge]

To be fair mate with our boardroom history, its like saying getting a Blowjob off Dracula is better than having your cock chopped off with a rusty knife.............

Must admit, I thought the same after I posted. But couldn’t be bothered to hit edit!

 

[Snowflake]

It’s not a good thing we are going down but it certainly isn’t the end of the world. It gives us chance to access what went wrong and also get some confidence back by winning games.
I understand it isn’t a given we will come straight back but the championship isn’t strong at the moment and is only going to get weaker because of the lack of money swilling about. If anyone has any doubt they should watch a couple of championship games to see this. The one in midweek between Stoke and Wednesday was dreadful. I would say it is the best time to go down in the sense that teams are struggling financially.
Hold out nerve keep the management team together and we will be back I am sure of this.

Two go down with us and three remain from this year’s Championship playoffs,so being in the top two will not be easy. Ask Bournemouth

 

[bakeblade]

It bothers me not
I'm used to what we think of as being "good times" bein those in the higher end of the second division, and I'm not that keen on all the bollocks in the PL.
What I do hope for is the we are in the higher end of the second division!

Being a Yo Yo club is better than being forever shit PL standard.
Several of my former work mates were West Brom fans when they literally went up or down every year (battle of Bramall Lane days) and they actively liked it - its excitin!

I'd agree with that, trying to become an established premier league team actually means trying to avoid relegation every season and just making up the numbers. Add to that throwing the cup competitions and paying average players stupid wages

 

[bakeblade]

Of course there are things that will be a positive of going down....

No VAR, Saturday 3pm KOs, less diving/cheating, worldwide fans who actually have never even been to a game and biased one eyedmedua coverage etc BUT....

I am with YES Blade

Surely the whole point of Sport and Football is being the best you can. In my lifetime other than a 3/4 year period early 90s we have never established (not even sure we did then) ourselves as a top flight club. Indeed in the last 45 years we have spent 6 seasons up there and only 3 in the last 25 years.

There are no doubt better things about the Championship as others have stated but we dont tend to do the bouncing back and often it can be 10 years or so before we return.

We had an opportunity to establish ourselves as a top flight club and really push on as a club financially, infrastructure and worldwide appeal (it's so much bigger now being in the Premier League than it ever was us being there before) and we have blown it.

I am surprised by the mentality of fans in thus regard. It's like we are settling for 2nd best and accepting we will never be any good...maybe that is right to be realistic (to be fair I've posted that's what I accept we are- Champ club who has odd seasons in Prem or Lg 1 (actually had 9-10 seasons in third tier compared to 6 in top flight in last 40 years!) but surely we should be aspiring to be the best?

I have seen a lot of posts this week on social media saying look where we were a few years ago (random ground posted from League One) and we should be grateful. Whilst I take the point and we have come a long way quickly, I also think that as fans even us have now sadly become aligned with the board/owners over most of our history....that is not demanding more, expecting better but merely just accepting we'll never be any good and being pleased to be 2nd rate.

It's quite sad really. Maybe without major investment we will never get to be established at the top table but I see other teams have done it (Palace, Burnley etc).

I do think within a few months of next season the 'I'm glad we are back in the Championship' will have well and truly worn off. I watched a few games this week on mud heap pitches and the standard was appalling. It was like something youd see on Graves Park almost. No crowds there also seems even worse than the Prem (no idea why- maybe the pitches and smaller stadiums makes it seem worse?). Also the wall to wall media coverage we criticise will be something we may miss. Without paying a fee every week you wont be able to see every game and you will not get anywhere near the coverage/information/highlights. It will be harder to find games for a fair few and actually more expensive (streams not as easy to find at a lower level).

As for away games...isnt it more expensive for tickets when we can go back (Prem games capped)? I personally have loved going to big grounds and newer ones. Granted it wears off but as much as people (include myself) say we miss trips to smaller grounds will we be as excited when the fixtures are out?

The Prem offered trips to London, Manchester, Liverpool etc...great days out. Granted more expensive but I tended to find that take away the train fare and youd spend similiar wherever you went (booze/food etc).

Are people excited about us visiting the same grounds we have been to so many times and I thought had escaped for the foreseeable future...Preston, Watford, Stoke, Huddersfield, Forest, Barnsley, QPR, Cardiff, Millwall, Blackburn etc

I had a look and I think other than Brentford many Blades will have done every ground time and time again. Just hope Lincoln and Accrington come up!

I have not even discussed the financial side or playing side (we could attract better players in the top level)....

I dislike a fair few things in the Prem definitely but its the place to be and surely we want to be there? If you don't is that just accepting mediocrity as our lot?

So in summary, it's a disappointing attitude and a bit defeatist to me but maybe I am on my own?

Unfortunately the reality is, unless you are one of the big 6, you need a mega rich owner to throw loads of money at it. I can't see us ever attracting that sort of wealth.

 

[ancientblade]

If we are not in the top league we will never bridge that gap. Infact every season out makes the gap bigger

how can we stay in the top league if we cant afford to bring quality players in to stay there your point is not valid find us an owner who can find salaries of 60k a week and upwards and we would have a chance of staying there

 

[bakeblade]

I’ll make a prediction....with no VAR our fans will be going mad about obvious bad decisions....every week.

I don’t understand the logic....VAR isn’t correct 100% of the time.....it’s only 99% accurate regards correct decisions
So let’s go back to no VAR where only 80% of decisions are correct because “you win some you lose some“.

VAR is much better this season compared to last season...it’s improving all the time. The only downside of VAR is the lack of confidence for fans celebrating goals.....agree that’s a big negative....but surely it’s a small price to pay to ensure decisions are correct and fair.

No one really talks about the advantages of VAR regards the lack of cheating and the massive improvement regards respect and intimidation of officials.
Notice how no one fakes off the ball incidents anymore.....players now know it’s all caught on camera.
Notice how hardly any players crowd the ref anymore or insist he’s made a terrible error.
The players know that all controversial decisions are checked so must be correct.

Regards cheating the only issue in the game at PL level is the black and white nature of VAR.
They look for contact...then often it means a penalty....there’s little consideration regards whether contact was strong enough to be classed as a foul.

Anyhow my point is.....next season....I‘m predicting there will be complaints about refs every single week.
You will hear cries of “why can’t there be VAR in the Championship”.

Regards going down....the financial implications are so big....that’s it’s difficult to imagine it can be a positive.

I don't agree, it's like a breath of fresh air watching a non VAR game. Yes there will be some wrong decisions, for and against, but thats football and its been like it for years.

 

[ryza]

Kid yourself if you want, that's fine.
There is nothing that beats being one of the top 20 clubs in the country. Playing against the biggest in the country every single week, watching world class players come to the Lane, going to some the best grounds in the world every few weeks, and the global exposure. Nothing comes close.

And I'm not even going to go into the financials of it. Just thank fuck we were in the Prem when covid reared it's ugly head. God knows what long term shit it's going to have on those in the Championship with smaller budgets like we had. The parachute payments will help us.

Don't lie to yourselves, you don't 'prefer the Championship' - you're just trying to find solace in relegation.

My opinion on 'preferring' the championship is all to do with protesting against the PL, that and the mechanical way the games have been shown on TV this season. Theres something deeply wrong about it that I can't put my finger on.

Even if we were doing well and far from relegation id feel some strong sort of bitterness towards the PL.

Maybe it's the virus what has warped my views and reality of football this season but at the minute i couldnt give a fuck about watching 'top players' i just miss going to games with my dad and drinking with my mates at the pub!

 

[Pedro Verde]

We can aspire to be the best we can but that is mostly down to money if we are talking about the PL

We finished 9th last season by over performing / achieving whilst not spending a fortune comparatively speaking on transfer fees and wages. We probably thought we could do it again this season. The PL has changed in the last few years no longer can you compete up there on the cheap especially with regards to wages. I had many converstaions last season with mates on the subject of wages and agreed somewhat on Uniteds stance on wages I didnt want to put the clubs future on the line in paying stupid wages. I think what has come home to roost this season is that if you want to compete / survive in the PL you have to compete on wages. This is something the Prince will have to come to a decision on if we return to the PL in the next couple of seasons. Hes not a billionaire so will probably need some partner investors (or sell us) if he wants us to be an established PL club
Successfull medium sized clubs in the PL are few and far between there is Burnley if you count success as lower to mid table or Leicester. Leicester are interesting in the fact that they have signed players relatively cheaply then sold them on for big fees Kante, Mahrez and Maguire come to mind then invest the money made in the squad

I have enjoyed our limited time in the PL this time visiting grounds I havent been to for a while the big clubs and had some really good days out. But I do depise the vast amounts of money awash in the PL. The Man City fans that have forgotten where they came from, the PL tourist fans that ask an away fan the way to the ground its all so false, I dont ever want United to become a Man City it would be like selling my soul. If we could become a Leicester that would be fine (without the dodgy admin and new stadium)
I want football back from the 70s and 80s but Im not going to get that

 

[Woodward's Currie]

how can we stay in the top league if we cant afford to bring quality players in to stay there your point is not valid find us an owner who can find salaries of 60k a week and upwards and we would have a chance of staying there

My point is valid because with good management/board they can use the prem money and everything else it brings to improve our infrastructure making us more attractive to potential investors. Every year out makes that gap big till we reach a point for example where some fans will say the championship is beyond us lets stay in league 1.

 

[JJBlade]

the point is jj we havent got the money to improve sufficiently as you put it and until we have we cant survive in the modern day premier league no its not nice getting relegated from any decision and ive seen us relegated numerous times from different leagues but its not the end of the world i think we will come back up but if we dont maybe 2 or 3 years in the championship will stabilise us and give us some time to find new investors who can provide the financial clout you need to stay in the premier league

This argument is getting old AB.
A ready made excuse for failure before we even begin.

At least 30 other clubs have had a good run in the Premier League outside the top eight over the years, without Roman Abramovich or Sheik Mansour or multi billion pound corporate sponsorship deals.

If a team can't be put together to at least compete with the other 10 or 12 clubs outside of the top eight or ten with a £150 million a year coming in just from one TV company, let alone the other financial benefits then the fault lies with the club and it's various departments.

It's salary cap is a joke and if it's going to be enforced no matter what, it can only be with the best academy products coming through, and the best foreign scouting systems in place.

Brentford and Swansea for example have managed to do this without too much money because their attitude is that many overseas players are excellent.

We haven't done it because our attitude is they'll be creative, stylish, good footballing brains, therefore they'll automatically be trouble making jonny foreigners.

 

[Espania blade]

This, i just think the prince has more ambition and drive (if you take finances out of the equation) to have Sheffield United be a sustainable Premier League team then KM ever did. I think he'll find a way to get us back up there pretty quick again.

The Prince is only it it for one thing - money!!
forget "ambition and drive " - it's all about money

 

[Robboblade1889]

This argument is getting old AB.
A ready made excuse for failure before we even begin.

At least 30 other clubs have had a good run in the Premier League outside the top eight over the years, without Roman Abramovich or Sheik Mansour or multi billion pound corporate sponsorship deals.

If a team can't be put together to at least compete with the other 10 or 12 clubs outside of the top eight or ten with a £150 million a year coming in just from one TV company, let alone the other financial benefits then the fault lies with the club and it's various departments.

It's salary cap is a joke and if it's going to be enforced no matter what, it can only be with the best academy products coming through, and the best foreign scouting systems in place.

Brentford and Swansea for example have managed to do this without too much money because their attitude is that many overseas players are excellent.

We haven't done it because our attitude is they'll be creative, stylish, good footballing brains, therefore they'll automatically be trouble making jonny foreigners.

So you actually think the recruitment team at our club some are foreign by the way don’t go for foreign players because they think they are trouble makers? Is this seriously what you think? Also what foreign players have Brentford who haven’t been in the premier league and Swansea who lasted a few seasons brought in? Swansea ended up with crippling wage bills which is why they haven’t got back.

 

[ancientblade]

This argument is getting old AB.
A ready made excuse for failure before we even begin.

At least 30 other clubs have had a good run in the Premier League outside the top eight over the years, without Roman Abramovich or Sheik Mansour or multi billion pound corporate sponsorship deals.

If a team can't be put together to at least compete with the other 10 or 12 clubs outside of the top eight or ten with a £150 million a year coming in just from one TV company, let alone the other financial benefits then the fault lies with the club and it's various departments.

It's salary cap is a joke and if it's going to be enforced no matter what, it can only be with the best academy products coming through, and the best foreign scouting systems in place.

Brentford and Swansea for example have managed to do this without too much money because their attitude is that many overseas players are excellent.

We haven't done it because our attitude is they'll be creative, stylish, good footballing brains, therefore they'll automatically be trouble making jonny foreigners.

brentford and swansea will only ever be yo yo clubs just like us they cant pay premier league salaries either and i will say again unless we can up our salaries for quality players theres no chance of us or most clubs to stay in the premier league

 

[JJBlade]

brentford and swansea will only ever be yo yo clubs just like us they cant pay premier league salaries either and i will say again unless we can up our salaries for quality players theres no chance of us or most clubs to stay in the premier league

Swansea have already had a better run in the Prem than we have.

And I'd like to bet Brentford will as well if they get there.

 

[JJBlade]

So you actually think the recruitment team at our club some are foreign by the way don’t go for foreign players because they think they are trouble makers? Is this seriously what you think? Also what foreign players have Brentford who haven’t been in the premier league and Swansea who lasted a few seasons brought in? Swansea ended up with crippling wage bills which is why they haven’t got back.

What you one about ?
Brentford have sold players for big money to Prem clubs, meaning they scouted Premier League quality.

Swansea have given the Premier League a better go than we ever have

 

[I should coco]

Maybe it's the virus what has warped my views and reality of football this season but at the minute i couldnt give a fuck about watching 'top players' i just miss going to games with my dad and drinking with my mates at the pub!

I don't think you are alone there mate.

The virus has warped a lot of our views and simple pleasures like a pub session and a game with mates, seem almost like something from a Dickens' novel.

BTW, I agree with the 'top players' thing/ Diving cheating bastards, the lot of them. If VAR was limited to 30 seconds in real time for 'clear and obvious' but they did the forensic thing on a Monday morning for retrospective diving bans, the football world would be a much better place. Can't happen though as Mike Reilly owns the game and a 3 millimetre offside decision is the biggest issue for the twats in the VAR studio.

 

[Kevincarterversion2.0]

Getting relegated is NEVER a good thing....and will be even more disasterous in this economic climate, post COVID-19. I get that it's nice to have games at 3pm on a Saturday, etc, but I want my club to be a success and be up there. I just dont see the point in being in sport if you don't want to be the best.

 

[I should coco]

Getting relegated is NEVER a good thing....and will be even more disasterous in this economic climate, post COVID-19. I get that it's nice to have games at 3pm on a Saturday, etc, but I want my club to be a success and be up there. I just dont see the point in being in sport if you don't want to be the best.

Sometimes, when I'm feeling like a 'better man', I convince myself I should be like a Crew fan. Ignore the division and just appreciate the good football you might see.
That would be what a 'football fan' would do.

The trouble is that I am not a football fan. I am a biased red tinted one-eyed bastard who will excuse any misbehaviour by dickheads in read and white stripes, as long as we win.

I don't actually expect to be 'the best' as I'm too long in the tooth for that. I#m 57 and know I'll never see us win the league, but maybe an odd cup is still a possibility. I'm happy to be in Division Two* again if we play some decent stuff and beat the Rusties every time, but our rightful place is on Division One*.


* These labels were good enough for about a hundred years before the recent buggering about. How long will the 'Premier League' seem elite enough? By the time that the big 4 have their way, it will be the 'Alibaba Elite Supreme Uber Premier Wonder League' and all 6 teams will play each other eight times per season, in between the 'Peoples Republic of China, European Super Premium Elite Champions League' games.

 

[ancientblade]

Getting relegated is NEVER a good thing....and will be even more disasterous in this economic climate, post COVID-19. I get that it's nice to have games at 3pm on a Saturday, etc, but I want my club to be a success and be up there. I just dont see the point in being in sport if you don't want to be the best.

if we want to be in the best league we have to pay proper premier league salaries and we must find a way to do that when we get back there if not we will be relegated again

 

[PokerBlade]

if we want to be in the best league we have to pay proper premier league salaries and we must find a way to do that when we get back there if not we will be relegated again

Thing is we've been a top flight club for three years this century. Before that you have to go back to '94 to see us in the top flight again. We can't have that kind of track record and then wonder why we haven't had much money in the bank or a queue of investors waiting to buy in. We came up to the Championship and we weren't even competing for wages there, promotion to the Premier League dragged us forward a long way from that perspective.

I'm not trying to bill relegation as a good thing but being like Norwich or WBA and getting the odd year in the Prem would be above and beyond the last twenty odd years of football for us.

 

[RecordBreakers]

Has this club ever had so many exciting young players?

Berge/Mcburnie/Brewster/Bogle/Burke/ plus coulibaly in Belgium and arari in the yooof

Going down would give them the chance to develop a lot easier than fighting relegation again and become far better players for it

Bogle yes the rest meh