Time for new blood

[guancheblade]

Fleck, Stevens and McBurnie? Lord have mercy.Knee jerk heaven.

Stevens has been doggers since project restart! Probably the slowest knee jerk ever recorded pal

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Fleck??

Why does it always take Fleck so long to get up to speed?

 

[guancheblade]

We've barely got enough depth in the squad to put out a decent XI yet we're talking of shipping players out?!?!?

We need to focus on bringing in athletes. Simples.

Personally not arsed who stays or goes, although as someone pointed out the other day if we sell JOC (£25m), Egan (£20m), Berge (£25m), Baldock (£10m) - that gives Tufty a good war chest to rebuild!

LOL at those figures. Give Football Manager a rest.

Nobody is looking at JOC after a season out, let alone giving us 25m for him
Egan is not worth 20m
After the injury we won't get back what we paid for Berge. Only if he rips it up before the end of the season (which he won't)
Baldock might be worth a 10m punt for some PL team but we genuinely need him around next season

 

[bertieblade]

Why does it always take Fleck so long to get up to speed?

Because in this instance he had two broken bones in his back.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Because in this instance he had two broken bones in his back.

Excuse, after excuse. He has another 31 unbroken ones. He should be doing better.

 

[Nagima]

While most of the squad are good enough for a promotion push from the championship, the problem is most aren't good enough for the premier league. Without major surgery we face the prospect of repeating the same failures.
With that in mind 2 to 3 players should be added to the squad on a return to the PL which means in the championship 8 of the starting team have to be PL capable.
Looking at the team as it is now there are only a few players who should be with us on that journey.
Rammers.
Bogle.
Egan.
JOC.
Some of the younger members of the squad may develop but realistically I think we need a totally new midfield. Older guys like Didsy and Sharp may have a role to play in the championship due to their ability and attitude. But hard choices need to be made and the recruitment process needs a complete overhaul. Maybe there is the salary constraints to consider but so far recruitment has been dire.
Mousset: Shambles.
McBurnie: not good enough.
Brewster: May come good but looks like a dud so far.
Rammers: over priced.
Bogle: good value
Lowe: from the bits I have seen he doesn't know how to defend. So in recruitment terms poor.
Berge: can play but doesn't suit how we are set up. May not get our money back.
Burke: not good enough.
Osborn: busy and energetic but just a squad player even in the championship.
Rodwell: Who?
So based on that view it's not about spending big but being smart enough to find real value. That is where Brentford have excelled. Leeds arrival in PL has meant them spending a bit but they have bought better quality than we have.

To summarise, our squad of misfits needs to be overhauled and a long term view taken so that we progressively build a better team capable of staying in the PL

 

[YES Blade]

What that no team comes in for JOC for £25m this summer? Call it £25 to be donated to the forum if you like.



No doubt someone will reply summat like “Well why haven’t Brentford made it to the Premier League then?” but that’s not the point is it?

To be fair, it’s probably a result of our rapid rise from League One. Some parts of the club’s infrastructure hasn’t been able to keep up.

Moving forwards though, I’d like to see the club invest more in a proper recruitment department.

I really don’t think we can blame our League One days for our lack of foreign recruitment, I just think it’s more down to Wilder’s preference.

We signed a fair few players from Europe in the 90s/00s and I very much doubt our scouting network then was any better than today. I’d say Wilder is probably less willing to take a chance on players than previous managers, which is probably fair enough given that we had more misses than hits in the foreign market in the past.

The difference with the foreign market is that the players that flop will be a lot less expensive than the British transfer flops.

 

[Nelson1889]

I'm sick of hearing about these salary restraints. Does anybody honestly think players in the Czech leagues for example are on anything like even mid table championship money yet west ham picked up two in soucek and coufal who have come in and not looked out of place in the Premier league.

Our recruitment is like being stuck in the late 80s, we've never had a decent foreign recruitment policy since they became more prevalent in the mid 90s. The best one we picked up in Borbokis was signed by the bloody chairman not on the basis of any scouting wasn't he?

 

[guancheblade]

I'm sick of hearing about these salary restraints. Does anybody honestly think players in the Czech leagues for example are on anything like even mid table championship money yet west ham picked up two in soucek and coufal who have come in and not looked out of place in the Premier league.

Our recruitment is like being stuck in the late 80s, we've never had a decent foreign recruitment policy since they became more prevalent in the mid 90s. The best one we picked up in Borbokis was signed by the bloody chairman not on the basis of any scouting wasn't he?

Czech please?

 

[Tynemouth Blade]

While most of the squad are good enough for a promotion push from the championship, the problem is most aren't good enough for the premier league. Without major surgery we face the prospect of repeating the same failures.
With that in mind 2 to 3 players should be added to the squad on a return to the PL which means in the championship 8 of the starting team have to be PL capable.
Looking at the team as it is now there are only a few players who should be with us on that journey.
Rammers.
Bogle.
Egan.
JOC.
Some of the younger members of the squad may develop but realistically I think we need a totally new midfield. Older guys like Didsy and Sharp may have a role to play in the championship due to their ability and attitude. But hard choices need to be made and the recruitment process needs a complete overhaul. Maybe there is the salary constraints to consider but so far recruitment has been dire.
Mousset: Shambles.
McBurnie: not good enough.
Brewster: May come good but looks like a dud so far.
Rammers: over priced.
Bogle: good value
Lowe: from the bits I have seen he doesn't know how to defend. So in recruitment terms poor.
Berge: can play but doesn't suit how we are set up. May not get our money back.
Burke: not good enough.
Osborn: busy and energetic but just a squad player even in the championship.
Rodwell: Who?
So based on that view it's not about spending big but being smart enough to find real value. That is where Brentford have excelled. Leeds arrival in PL has meant them spending a bit but they have bought better quality than we have.

To summarise, our squad of misfits needs to be overhauled and a long term view taken so that we progressively build a better team capable of staying in the PL

 

[Sheff de party]

Good. I like him. He puts more effort in than most of the other players do, and for some reason seems to get pelters.

Still only a young lad, clearly cares for the club and shirt, and its hardly his fault that we just lump it up to him so that he's got 2 centre halves with him and his back to goal.

He didn't look too shoddy v Chelsea at home in the summer when we actually got some service into him from out wide...

He stays for me, and he will be a very good player for us next season in the Championship.

I agree. He’s a useful player and once he’s back in a division he knows, presumably with some service, he should do well I think. The general consensus among my mates is McBurnie and Brewster up top should be the perfect big man, little man partnership and be very successful.

 

[JackSUFC]

Think you're wrong about JOC though. £25m is nothing to the likes of Brighton/Palace/Newcastle/Burnley and they'll see him as someone they can get £50m for in 2 years time if he carries on developing.

After a season out, I can’t see anyone spending that on him - not straight away anyway.

We don’t even know if he’ll be able to reach the same levels he was at when he returns.

Out of those clubs you mentioned, I could see only Brighton spending that sort of fee. They have some decent options already (Dunk, Webster, White etc) but suppose they did show an interest in JOC a couple of years ago.

Might be wishful thinking on my part, I dunno, but I’m confident he’ll be starting next season with us.

 

[MalmoBlade]

Yes I hope they don't rush Jack back because if he proves his ability and fitness he might attract buyers. Egan is probably done for the season so maybe we can at least start with our rocks at the back in the Championship.

Now.......about that midfield

 

[CornwallBlade]

I agree. He’s a useful player and once he’s back in a division he knows, presumably with some service, he should do well I think. The general consensus among my mates is McBurnie and Brewster up top should be the perfect big man, little man partnership and be very successful.

Yep that’ll be abaht reyt

 

[ancientblade]

I agree. He’s a useful player and once he’s back in a division he knows, presumably with some service, he should do well I think. The general consensus among my mates is McBurnie and Brewster up top should be the perfect big man, little man partnership and be very successful.

at 43m for the pair of em they should rip the championship apart and get 20 goals each i would pair em up now till the end of the season see if they gel and get an understanding but we need to go back to playing a number 10 if we continue to play 3 at the back mcgoldrick freeman or a new signing for that role for me other alternative is play 433 and put mcburnie and burke either side of brewster which would be my preference

 

[Sheff de party]

at 43m for the pair of em they should rip the championship apart and get 20 goals each i would pair em up now till the end of the season see if they gel and get an understanding but we need to go back to playing a number 10 if we continue to play 3 at the back mcgoldrick freeman or a new signing for that role for me other alternative is play 433 and put mcburnie and burke either side of brewster which would be my preference

I doubt he will change the system though. It might depend on whether Berge stays but that doesn’t look likely.
We should have some serious coin coming in from the Berge sale and I’d spend a fair bit of it on a new creative midfield player.

We will need a decent size squad and Freeman can work hard to get his way into the team.

 

[Champagneblade]

Good. I like him. He puts more effort in than most of the other players do, and for some reason seems to get pelters.

Still only a young lad, clearly cares for the club and shirt, and its hardly his fault that we just lump it up to him so that he's got 2 centre halves with him and his back to goal.

He didn't look too shoddy v Chelsea at home in the summer when we actually got some service into him from out wide...

He stays for me, and he will be a very good player for us next season in the Championship.

McBurnie, Sharp, McGoldrick, Brewster, Burke.

I'd say strikers at that level are the least of our worries. At least 4 of those can get double figures, fitness permitting.

The Midfield however..

 

[Champagneblade]

I agree. He’s a useful player and once he’s back in a division he knows, presumably with some service, he should do well I think. The general consensus among my mates is McBurnie and Brewster up top should be the perfect big man, little man partnership and be very successful.

I can see us starting with this. But first rocky patch and Billy will be back in the XI and banging them in! Gets written off every year. As a striker he takes to the Championship like Warnock does.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Our recruitment is like being stuck in the late 80s, we've never had a decent foreign recruitment policy since they became more prevalent in the mid 90s. The best one we picked up in Borbokis was signed by the bloody chairman not on the basis of any scouting wasn't he?

Not sure where you‘ve been been these last few years.

Our head of recruitment Paul Mitchel has been lorded as one of the best in the business and one of the reasons for our unbelievable historical rise from mid table league 1 to pushing for a Champions League spot. Wilder himself has also said many times our recruitment is so good because it’s not just based on ability.
They check out the players character and personality and gave a plan for how that player will be used before he’s even bought.

However our recruitment at PL hasn’t been as good but that’s because I think many players are motivated by money...so Wilders style regards attacking players to the club doesn’t work as well. Also Wilders made no secret that we can’t afford average PL players because of wage structure...so we‘ve deliberately targeted the best in the Championship instead. One big plus is that relegation isn’t a financial disaster where we could go into admin.

There are 3 reasons why we’ve struggled this season.

1: We pushed for the Champions league last season. Several players earned the respect and plaudits from the media.
Some we given new improved contracts. The players thought they’ve made it and naturally started with a complacent attitude.

2: The main reason is a lack of preparation. One can argue this applies to every tesm.
‘However it effects us more because our players are NOT high quality. They look better than their true standard because Wilders plays to their strengths.
He ensures the players are so well drilled and play as a team. We needed a proper pre-season but because of covid it didn’t happen.

3: The loss of O’Connell has been a bigger miss than we thought.
Remember in the Championship whenever O’Connell was out we conceded plenty of goals...when he returned it went back to clean sheets,
We’ve previously been really lucky regarfs injuries....whilst this season we‘ve had terrible luck with injuries.

 

[1889]

What that no team comes in for JOC for £25m this summer? Call it £25 to be donated to the forum if you like.



No doubt someone will reply summat like “Well why haven’t Brentford made it to the Premier League then?” but that’s not the point is it?

To be fair, it’s probably a result of our rapid rise from League One. Some parts of the club’s infrastructure hasn’t been able to keep up.

Moving forwards though, I’d like to see the club invest more in a proper recruitment department.

Rather than go to the expense of setting up a recruitment team and servicing their ongoing costs, why don’t we do to Brentford, what Villa do to us?

We keep our ear to the ground, maybe have an inside man, let them identify the player they want, then as soon as they make their move, ‘Boom’ we come in and offer him another fifty quid a week.

Problem solved, you can thank me later Chris

 

[Nelson1889]

Not sure where you‘ve been been these last few years.

Our head of recruitment Paul Mitchel has been lorded as one of the best in the business and one of the reasons for our unbelievable historical rise from mid table league 1 to pushing for a Champions League spot. Wilder himself has also said many times our recruitment is so good because it’s not just based on ability.
They check out the players character and personality and gave a plan for how that player will be used before he’s even bought.

However our recruitment at PL hasn’t been as good but that’s because I think many players are motivated by money...so Wilders style regards attacking players to the club doesn’t work as well. Also Wilders made no secret that we can’t afford average PL players because of wage structure...so we‘ve deliberately targeted the best in the Championship instead. One big plus is that relegation isn’t a financial disaster where we could go into admin.

There are 3 reasons why we’ve struggled this season.

1: We pushed for the Champions league last season. Several players earned the respect and plaudits from the media.
Some we given new improved contracts. The players thought they’ve made it and naturally started with a complacent attitude.

2: The main reason is a lack of preparation. One can argue this applies to every tesm.
‘However it effects us more because our players are NOT high quality. They look better than their true standard because Wilders plays to their strengths.
He ensures the players are so well drilled and play as a team. We needed a proper pre-season but because of covid it didn’t happen.

3: The loss of O’Connell has been a bigger miss than we thought.
Remember in the Championship whenever O’Connell was out we conceded plenty of goals...when he returned it went back to clean sheets,
We’ve previously been really lucky regarfs injuries....whilst this season we‘ve had terrible luck with injuries.

I was specifically referring to our foreign recruitment not so much our domestic policy.

However a few points regarding a point you made around players character.

Let's use the last 2 foreign recruited players as the example in Retsos and ZIvkovic. Are you telling me we sent a scout out to Germany and especially China to check out the character of these two players first hand? I highly doubt it so the character argument sort of falls down in this respect. With berge we probably have people on the inside in Belgium football with Jan Van Winkel so this was more easy to attain.

We saw from the limited appearances of Zivkovic and Retsos that the scouting we did do on them was either minimal or not good enough as they proved that with their performances or lack of. I appreciate your point of we are fishing in a different pond with regards to transfer fees/wages but there are diamonds out there for very little outlay. Just off the top of my head in the last few years there's been kante, benrahma, buendia, bednarek, Saint-maximan who have been picked up for relative peanuts from abroad. Other teams manage to pick these players up, we are miles behind in this respect and something that needs looking at going forward if it hasn't already.

 

[jono_t2000]

other teams manage to pick these players up, we are miles behind in this respect and something that needs looking at going forward if it hasn't already.

100% agree with this, feel like our scouting/recruitment department has been way behind where it should have been in this modern day for far too long.

Even championship clubs like Norwich/Brentford/etc have better scouting networks than us

 

[William]

Agree with most of that sadly. I think fleck was just starting to regain his form and mcburnie cops a lot of stick due to the hopeful punts in his direction. Norwood looks done at this level. If the likes of brunt and ndiaye can't offer more than him then I will be worried for next season. A big clear out is needed.

Norwood is loose as fuck when players put pressure on him hence why I agree he’s done at this level, but come on there’s not a chance Brunt and Ndiaye are going to improve us in such a vital position unless you’re satisfied with finishing in a championship relegation battle. Norwood’s got a wand of a right foot and I think he’ll still have a role to play next season. As much as a liability he’s been he’s the best we have. Even the £20 million Berge hasn’t been capable of filling his boots.

 

[Broomhall Blade]

We've barely got enough depth in the squad to put out a decent XI yet we're talking of shipping players out?!?!?

We need to focus on bringing in athletes. Simples.

Personally not arsed who stays or goes, although as someone pointed out the other day if we sell JOC (£25m), Egan (£20m), Berge (£25m), Baldock (£10m) - that gives Tufty a good war chest to rebuild!

We need to try and keep the squad together with just a few tweeks.
Look to Norwich as an example, they look like bouncing back at the 1st attempt by keeping their Premiership squad virtually intact.
I have watched a few Wednesday games when on sky this season and I know we look bad in the Premiership right now but take last night we would beat both Stoke and Wednesday even with our current squad.
We will do alright next season if we can keep the majority of our players and add 2 or 3 good players.

 

[Nelson1889]

The championship standard this season outside of the top 6 or 7 is absolutely piss poor. There are a few teams that have the odd good player but the squads overall are very average when compared to what we were up against 3 years ago.

Get off to a decent start and you're pretty much guaranteed a play off place it seems at the moment

 

[ancientblade]

The championship standard this season outside of the top 6 or 7 is absolutely piss poor. There are a few teams that have the odd good player but the squads overall are very average when compared to what we were up against 3 years ago.

Get off to a decent start and you're pretty much guaranteed a play off place it seems at the moment

definetly and thats why i think were a great bet for top 6

 

[Kev Gee]

The board really need to shake things up regarding player recruitment.

If I was Prince Abdullah I would be telling Wilder that we are changing strategy and scouting and signing players from Europe and South America from now on as we can't afford 10-20 million pound gambles anymore.

Who's boss? CW should be told that he will no longer be in charge of recruitment.

We will have to be cuter with our recruitment and aim to bring through some of our youth prospects next season.

Our fringe players should be released and supplemented by our young youth prospects and loans from the PL.

I would look to bring Freeman in from the cold and look at bringing back the 10 role.

 

[ancientblade]

The board really need to shake things up regarding player recruitment.

If I was Prince Abdullah I would be telling Wilder that we are changing strategy and scouting and signing players from Europe and South America from now on as we can't afford 10-20 million pound gambles anymore.

Who's boss? CW should be told that he will no longer be in charge of recruitment.

We will have to be cuter with our recruitment and aim to bring through some of our youth prospects next season.

Our fringe players should be released and supplemented by our young youth prospects and loans from the PL.

I would look to bring Freeman in from the cold and look at bringing back the 10 role.

we wont be signing 10 - 20m pound players in the championship we might sell 2 or 3 for that price i think loans with a view to buy will be our strategy this summer

 

[The Crab]

Stevens has been doggers since project restart! Probably the slowest knee jerk ever recorded pal

Thought that said Dogging, would have explained why he always looks fucked................

 

[guancheblade]

Thought that said Dogging, would have explained why he always looks fucked................

Mystery solved LOL