New Head of Operations appointed

[lenners]

I doubt it Trig.
My view on the role and the use of forums is bang on.
Stating it and outlining why is not negative.
Neither is putting forward season ticket ideas and encouraging others to do so.
Mebbes your own inactivity is perhaps a greater display of doing nowt bar a rather desperate and slightly obsessive desire to sit on the sidelines pointing a finger a me.
Bit odd son if you ask me, but each to their own.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I won't speak for Richard, but I do know for a fact that he considers himself not the most technical and would prefer to meet people in person or talk to them over the phone. To that end, he uses Foxy and I as a gauge to the requests on here and he's also spoken with/met with some of the people who run the other site too.

It clearly wouldn't be a good use of a club employee's time to wade through page after page of irrelevant chit-chat in order to find the odd nugget of a good idea or suggestion for the club.
Would it be worth having a sticky thread titled "Supporters Communications Manager - Any Questions or Suggestions"?
That way RB could communicate directly with users of the forum, highlight which areas he's willing to pursue and give feedback and status updates on the suggestions put forward.

 

[Trigger Blade]

I doubt it Trig.
My view on the role and the use of forums is bang on.
Stating it and outlining why is not negative.
Neither is putting forward season ticket ideas and encouraging others to do so.
Mebbes your own inactivity is perhaps a greater display of doing nowt bar a rather desperate and slightly obsessive desire to sit on the sidelines pointing a finger a me.
Bit odd son if you ask me, but each to their own.

OK, you've put some ideas forward on a messageboard, whoopee do, to quote you, perhaps you shouold give the bloke time to do his job. All you've done is stamp your feet because you haven't seen an instant fix.

I was making the more general point about you having declined every opportunity over the years to get actively involved in things that you clearly feel strongly about and where you might make a difference. Worse than that, you're critical of people who do get involved.

You're as much on the sidelines as I am, we're just pointing at different things.

 

[lenners]

OK, you've put some ideas forward on a messageboard, whoopee do, to quote you, perhaps you shouold give the bloke time to do his job. All you've done is stamp your feet because you haven't seen an instant fix.

I was making the more general point about you having declined every opportunity over the years to get actively involved in things that you clearly feel strongly about and where you might make a difference. Worse than that, you're critical of people who do get involved.

You're as much on the sidelines as I am, we're just pointing at different things.

I'm not expecting an instant fix, I am advising how the role should involve communications on forums such as this.
Two different things.
I've clearly spent time on here hammering home how part of the job should be done and I'm right.
I've also spent time hammering home that the club should be engaging with fans with ideas about season tickets, come up with some ideas and commented on others.
Only one of us is on the sidelines offering little in terms of positive ideas and indulging in a strange fixation with another poster on here.

 

[oaklandrdblade]

At half time last night Richard Batho was at the back of the kop, having a good look around and chatting to several fans. I would rather he engage with fans on there given that the percentage of fans of the club who actually post on the various forums is probably quite small. I also know that he has engaged in an exchange of emails with our overseas friends on the BEES website.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

If our new supporter liaison manager isn't good with technology, then he needs to learn that skill, and fast. You can't be a community manager and not use social media.

It's true that the amount of people on forums is small compared to the total fanbase, but the amount of people you can reach via one-to one emails, phone calls, and face to face chats is even smaller still. Sure, don't only communicate through forums, but avoiding them totally is a massive mistake in my opinion.

Edit: And if he isn't comfortable with using forums, then it's questionable why he was even hired in the first place.

 

[silverfox]

I'm slightly concerned by the posts in this thread.

The importance of views on here in terms of reference for Batho scare me. Yes forums like this are important and have their worth but to take too much notice is indeed a bigger danger.

A lot of the "middle ground" posters have taken a backward step from posting in recent times. Yes people like me.

Most, mmm, well it seems so, like to see things in black and white. Either you are a knocker or a clapper with nothing in between whatsoever.

All the Blades I seem to know, or meet, are really i nbetween these extremes.....we never agree with each other but fully undertand their views and respect and understand them.

I see myself as one in the middle......never been happy....I will still support and can never see me giving up.

Now some people are saying the forums are becoming more of a voice for the fans......great but we do need the balance right in views of the people who do.

Do we think the balance is right on this forum?

I'm unsure.

 

[lenners]

If our new supporter liaison manager isn't good with technology, then he needs to learn that skill, and fast. You can't be a community manager and not use social media.

It's true that the amount of people on forums is small compared to the total fanbase, but the amount of people you can reach via one-to one emails, phone calls, and face to face chats is even smaller still. Sure, don't only communicate through forums, but avoiding them totally is a massive mistake in my opinion.

Edit: And if he isn't comfortable with using forums, then it's questionable why he was even hired in the first place.

Agree with you there Highbury.
Not only is it a way of asking for and receiving ideas, it's also a way of explaining, within reason, what's possible and what's not.
I also wouldn't underestimate the number of fans who read these forums without ever posting on them.

 

[Tuns]

At half time last night Richard Batho was at the back of the kop, having a good look around and chatting to several fans. I would rather he engage with fans on there given that the percentage of fans of the club who actually post on the various forums is probably quite small. I also know that he has engaged in an exchange of emails with our overseas friends on the BEES website.

Glad he's doing that and I also hope he will find ways of reaching out to and communicating with the 5,000 plus ex-ST holders and non regulars to find out how they can be tempted back and into getting a ST.

Anyway as someone mentioned STs:

I fear we shall opt for the price freeze aren't you all lucky and a 10% discount in the club shop route and get a max of 10,000 ST holders at £299 instead of a calculated gamble on trying to get up to 20,000 ST holders at £149 route and free for kids.

I hope the club are learning that most former ST holders don't go to many if any games so you may as well get £149 off them rather than nowt.

Whatever offer they come up must be open to everyone not just exisiting ST holders or we may as well forget tempting many back and accept another huge drop in gates and all the additional revenue that means we lose next season whatever league we are in.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I'm slightly concerned by the posts in this thread.

The importance of views on here in terms of reference for Batho scare me. Yes forums like this are important and have their worth but to take too much notice is indeed a bigger danger.

A lot of the "middle ground" posters have taken a backward step from posting in recent times. Yes people like me.

Most, mmm, well it seems so, like to see things in black and white. Either you are a knocker or a clapper with nothing in between whatsoever.

All the Blades I seem to know, or meet, are really i nbetween these extremes.....we never agree with each other but fully undertand their views and respect and understand them.

I see myself as one in the middle......never been happy....I will still support and can never see me giving up.

Now some people are saying the forums are becoming more of a voice for the fans......great but we do need the balance right in views of the people who do.

Do we think the balance is right on this forum?

I'm unsure.

You can't only use forums as a barometer of fan opinion. I don't think anyone's saying that Batho should only use forums, but he certainly shouldn't avoid them.

I'm not a knocker, but i would have said that in the past i was verging on a clapper, now it's plain to see that there is something very wrong at the club. You only have to look at the league table for that. We're not down there simply through bad luck, we're there because problems have not been addressed. It's good that the club have got someone in to talk to the fans, but if the club got it right on the pitch, then you wouldn't need a liaison manager. The fans would turn up in their droves, get fleeced by the ticket price, catering and merchandise sellers, and still go home happy because the team has won.

 

[lenners]

I'm slightly concerned by the posts in this thread.

The importance of views on here in terms of reference for Batho scare me. Yes forums like this are important and have their worth but to take too much notice is indeed a bigger danger.

A lot of the "middle ground" posters have taken a backward step from posting in recent times. Yes people like me.

Most, mmm, well it seems so, like to see things in black and white. Either you are a knocker or a clapper with nothing in between whatsoever.

All the Blades I seem to know, or meet, are really i nbetween these extremes.....we never agree with each other but fully undertand their views and respect and understand them.

I see myself as one in the middle......never been happy....I will still support and can never see me giving up.

Now some people are saying the forums are becoming more of a voice for the fans......great but we do need the balance right in views of the people who do.

Do we think the balance is right on this forum?

I'm unsure.

Missing the point.
The fans rep role has nothing to do with general posting on here, clappers, knockers, slashers any of it.
It's just a relatively simple way to elicit ideas from fans and provide feedback, pure and simple.
It's not about whether Monty played well last night or he's the worst ever player to pull on a shirt.
But it can and should be about engaging the brains of fans about how things can be done better off the field.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Missing the point.
The fans rep role has nothing to do with general posting on here, clappers, knockers, slashers any of it.
It's just a relatively simple way to elicit ideas from fans and provide feedback, pure and simple.
It's not about whether Monty played well last night or he's the worst ever player to pull on a shirt.
But it can and should be about engaging the brains of fans about how things can be done better off the field.

Personally I think he's got it right in eliciting the information from the Fox and Delia that is pertinent, otherwise it's trawling through the good, bad and downright ugly.

By all means sign up and make the odd announcement on here if he wishes. But I think there are better channels to use for getting what he requires. Beside which, as has been pointed out in this thread, if most supporters are asked why they are not happy with the club/not attending/not renewing season tickets 9/10 will be because the team are losing more than they are winning and other than relaying that back to the board he can do sod all about it.

 

[silverfox]

Missing the point.

Right I'll shut up then.

The world is so black and white!

Looks like another sabatical before I get banned.

 

[lenners]

Personally I think he's got it right in eliciting the information from the Fox and Delia that is pertinent, otherwise it's trawling through the good, bad and downright ugly.

By all means sign up and make the odd announcement on here if he wishes. But I think there are better channels to use for getting what he requires. Beside which, as has been pointed out in this thread, if most supporters are asked why they are not happy with the club/not attending/not renewing season tickets 9/10 will be because the team are losing more than they are winning and other than relaying that back to the board he can do sod all about it.

Jeez, if it was just about that then there truly wouldn't be any point in the role at all.
And if the club can get all it needs from the fans from the moderators, they'd be better off getting an office monkey to make a quick call now and then, make a few notes and not bother to hire a fans rep at all.
The whole bleedin' point is United have moved miles away from the fanbase in general. Part of the role has to be creating a wide platform for engagement, make people feel involved, give them an opportunity to think and be heard.
And make it on specifics, like ticketing (the most important by far), on catering, on music (and Lord only knows why we now come out to a Guns n Roses track that bears no relationship to United, football or anything else), merchandise, Blades Revival or whatever.

 

[alcoblade]

I'm not convinced about the role, but as someone pointed out already, it would take about 40 new season ticket holders to pay for itself.

I also hope the main thrust is not to understand why the club has moved so far from the fanbase? Surely it's accepted that our global investments and tie ups were qustionable in the first place, non of them delivered, it was then revealed that we'd mortgaged to the hilt to pay for them. Then it revealed we'd got to sell anyone who we could sell.

We need to bottom out ASAP. That is, get the wagebill to a sustainable level and then build from there. Give us a feeling that we're moving forwards, from whatever the base. Don't make promsises that an't be delivered (Europe in 5 years, spending with a capital S, Beattie's got flue) and don't dream of squandering money on stuff with tenuous benefits that we can't spend, for ego purposes. £40M on ground redevelopment for a WC bid being a perfect example.

No fans reprsentative is needed for this.

UTB

 

[Wapping Blade]

Glad he's doing that and I also hope he will find ways of reaching out to and communicating with the 5,000 plus ex-ST holders and non regulars to find out how they can be tempted back and into getting a ST.

Anyway as someone mentioned STs:

I fear we shall opt for the price freeze aren't you all lucky and a 10% discount in the club shop route and get a max of 10,000 ST holders at £299 instead of a calculated gamble on trying to get up to 20,000 ST holders at £149 route and free for kids.

I hope the club are learning that most former ST holders don't go to many if any games so you may as well get £149 off them rather than nowt.

Whatever offer they come up must be open to everyone not just exisiting ST holders or we may as well forget tempting many back and accept another huge drop in gates and all the additional revenue that means we lose next season whatever league we are in.

Good points Tuns, why not email them in (apologies if you have already)?

 

[raul]

I'm fairly neutral on the whole idea and suspect the real motive is to represent the board to the fans rather than the other way round, but even so I'd rather RB work on 4 or 5 well honed proposals dilligently than 500 or so random thoughts just volleyed across a table.

 

[Selly]

I'm fairly neutral on the whole idea and suspect the real motive is to represent the board to the fans rather than the other way round, but even so I'd rather RB work on 4 or 5 well honed proposals dilligently than 500 or so random thoughts just volleyed across a table.

Spot on, the big thing in the coming months is ST pricing. Let have something innovative, reduce the rpice as more people sign up etc. etc.

In the meantime, anything he can do as a "quick win" (music, hendersons relish, toilets etc etc) has to be a good thing.

 

[lenners]

I'm fairly neutral on the whole idea and suspect the real motive is to represent the board to the fans rather than the other way round, but even so I'd rather RB work on 4 or 5 well honed proposals dilligently than 500 or so random thoughts just volleyed across a table.

Indeed.
And wouldn't it be sensible for RB to set up a thread on here, ask for ideas about STs, hone them down, select 4 or 5, say which ones they are, take them to the club and ultimately feed back on them.
If he's got ideas from elsewhere fine, he could mention what they are and perhaps people on here or the other site could suggest ways they could be improved etc.
The club might turn round and say sorry, they're going up because of this, that or the other.
They might, on the other hand, say that particular idea might or will work, thank you very much.
But if the role is going to have some meaning, there needs to be some greater clarity and that is best achieved by using these forums for two-way communication.

 

[FleaPitBlade]

Spot on, the big thing in the coming months is ST pricing. Let have something innovative, reduce the rpice as more people sign up etc. etc.

I like that idea...

It makes sense that the more that are sold, the cheaper they should be offered. The profits will then be in the volume rather than the mark up.

So, freeze the price. Every time we sell 5000 tickets, knock say 10% from from the price everyone pays.

20,000 ST's = a reduction of 40%, reducing the price everybody pays for a ST on the kop from £370 to £148. The 40% loss is negated by the fact youve flogged twice as many.

Simples. Now, where did i put that Apprentice application form....

 

[Selly]

I like that idea...

It makes sense that the more that are sold, the cheaper they should be offered. The profits will then be in the volume rather than the mark up.

So, freeze the price. Every time we sell 5000 tickets, knock say 10% from from the price everyone pays.

20,000 ST's = a reduction of 40%, reducing the price everybody pays for a ST on the kop from £370 to £148. The 40% loss is negated by the fact youve flogged twice as many.

Simples. Now, where did i put that Apprentice application form....

not so simples, a reduction of 40% on £370 is actually £222. the £148 is the saving. I shouldn`t bother Siralan if I were you...

As I already suggested here:

2) Implement a webuyit.com approach, along the lines of:

Sell 5000 ST the price is £500
Sell 7000 ST the price is £480
Sell 10000 ST the price is £420
Sell 15000 ST the price is £350
Sell 20000 ST the price is £250

and get people to buy in at a level that suits them. Do some fancy maths and work out which level you have reached and BINGO!

The key being you can commit to buying one if (and only if) the price is acceptable to you, if the price doesn`t go low enough, you don`t get one, or you have to buy at the level that is reached.

I don`t know what the prices would have to be to match the income from last years sales (assuming that is the aim), but I'd wager that if the price at one level got as low as £149 youd have a lot of takers who wouldn`t normally bother (exiles etc) after all thats only 7 matches you'd have to get to.

If anyone can provide

a) the revenue from ST this season
b) the split between Adult, concessions, OAP, JB
c) last years prices

I'll do some sums and come up with a potential reducing pricing structure that attempts to maintain the revenue stream in line with last year.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

not so simples, a reduction of 40% on £370 is actually £222. the £148 is the saving. I shouldn`t bother Siralan if I were you...

As I already suggested here:



The key being you can commit to buying one if (and only if) the price is acceptable to you, if the price doesn`t go low enough, you don`t get one, or you have to buy at the level that is reached.

I don`t know what the prices would have to be to match the income from last years sales (assuming that is the aim), but I'd wager that if the price at one level got as low as £149 youd have a lot of takers who wouldn`t normally bother (exiles etc) after all thats only 7 matches you'd have to get to.

If anyone can provide

a) the revenue from ST this season
b) the split between Adult, concessions, OAP, JB
c) last years prices

I'll do some sums and come up with a potential reducing pricing structure that attempts to maintain the revenue stream in line with last year.

If a season ticket got as low as £150 (say if 30,000 people got one) then the club would only make £4.5m against £5.25m at 15,000 x £350.

If the catering was brought back in house, then you could see that approach making sense

 

[Selly]

If a season ticket got as low as £150 (say if 30,000 people got one) then the club would only make £4.5m against £5.25m at 15,000 x £350.

If the catering was brought back in house, then you could see that approach making sense

true, buit in order to retain the current premium pricing for the SS and JS stands, I'd be expecting to charge a premium for those stands. Say £80 extra? (So it would be £149 for the kop, and £149 + the premium for JS/SS)

If we sell out those stands thats an extra 1.28 mill (assuming 16k in those stands)

 

[Highbury_Blade]

true, buit in order to retain the current premium pricing for the SS and JS stands, I'd be expecting to charge a premium for those stands. Say £80 extra? (So it would be £149 for the kop, and £149 + the premium for JS/SS)

If we sell out those stands thats an extra 1.28 mill (assuming 16k in those stands)

But your costs would be higher, stewarding/Policing/Ticket office etc. I doubt the profit would be there, not at that low a price.

 

[Selly]

But your costs would be higher, stewarding/Policing/Ticket office etc. I doubt the profit would be there, not at that low a price.

stewarding? yes
Policing? yes
Ticket office? In the summer yes, but with 30k on ST, there would surely be less to do during the season.

And the benefit to the team of having 30k in the ground as opposed to 17k could be immesurable...

And anyway the figures were guesstimates, you'd have to model it properly.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

The way I see it, at the moment you have two basic options:-

1) Buy a season ticket for £260 (on the Kop). I.e. £260 for 23 matches.
2) Buy a ticket for £22 to see an individual match (on the Kop, Category B). I.e. £506 for 23 matches.

There are a whole host of fans who don’t get season tickets because they know they’re not going to see the majority of the games.
But they might well be tempted to buy a batch of tickets for 5, 10 or 15 matches in advance if these were sold at a discount.
I think the pricing structure should be something along the lines of:-


Matches Per Game Total price
20......... £12........ £240 (Buy 20 and get 3 games FREE i.e. season ticket)
15......... £14........ £210
10......... £16........ £160
5.......... .£18......... £90
1........... £20......... £20

This would require a decent ticket booking system, so that fans could reserve their seat for a particular fixture in advance but otherwise I can’t see any reason this couldn’t work. Any thoughts?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

stewarding? yes
Policing? yes
Ticket office? In the summer yes, but with 30k on ST, there would surely be less to do during the season.

And the benefit to the team of having 30k in the ground as opposed to 17k could be immesurable...

And anyway the figures were guesstimates, you'd have to model it properly.

Imagine how much louder the booing would sound.
Players would need ear plugs.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Highbury - yes pal I know what IR35 is. Only applies where the individual with a service company would under the badges of trade be classed as an employee. Batho is by the sounds of it self-employed so IR35 wouldn't apply - hence he should set up a company.

What are these other 'legal' ways of getting 80% return on his income? Serious question.

If Batho is self employed he shouldn't have a contract - I assume you mean employment contract?the pack.

Mic, i owe you an apology, it is i who hasn't a clue what he's talking about.

The loopholes that allowed the offshore schemes to work seem to have been closed now by HMRC. It'll be interesting to see what the companies who have been operating these schemes come up with now to still operate within the law.