Tomorrow - gutting

[alcoblade]

Indeed, the board itself recognises this in its new and improved approach to youth development.

Does it fuck. The new emphasis on the academy is because we're skint. The sale of the Kyles was because we're skint. We're skint because we appointed Robson with an open cheque book and invested in property at the height of a boom.

You flippantly refer to the balance sheet as though it's something we could ignore if we liked. It's that silly logic that lead to the appointment of Robson with an open cheque book and investing in property at the height of a boom.

It's not rocket science.

UTB

 

[Yossarian]

Argument or not,i dont care what ANY of you say but the sale of both kyles has been a catastrophe for our club,the record shows it-results,gates,overall belief in our club.

I'm going to disagree with you there. So much has been wrong during the last 3 years, so much shite football and poor signings - I refuse to believe that two young right backs were the only thing getting us results, fans and belief. If they stuck around, we'd have still been playing football like schoolboys, and we'd still have had an embarrassing turd of a manager for as long as we did.

 

[Elsecar_Blade]

The loss of Walker and the sight of him in another team's shirt will hurt me more than it would have done with Naughton. IMO, the deal for Naughton was good business ... £5m+ for a player with half a season's experience with a ready made replacement following him through from the Academy, I'd have cashed in there too. Wouldn't have blamed United at all though I wish he'd gone to Everton not Spurs so he'd have had a chance.

Walker's sale, though, was a dagger to the heart of many Blades. I maintain that after those few games at the end of his debut season, I knew he was the better of the two Kyles. IMO, if we'd held on for a season, we'd have doubled our money on KW. Business wise, it made no sense. There was always going to be an emotional outburst from the Blades as well about the sale of Naughton so keeping Walker would have cooled that too - selling Walker as well added to the fire. It made no sense on any level. Walker was, for me, a modern day footballer: young, powerful, quick and comfortable on the ball. He was exactly what United fans wanted to see and the club sold him first chance. How much of that £2.5m they got for Walker has been squandered on replacing him? We'll have paid his wages for his loan return (vastly increased by Tottenham no doubt), we are paying good money now for Calve and Nosworthy (at least £15K a week) as well as fees/wages for Kozluk, Connelly etc ... I bet we've wasted over £1m on replacing him already and we've got nothing concrete to show for it except for Kozluk ...

 

[DuncDisorderly]

We all kind of agree that we'd have liked to have kept Walker and Naughton. However, endlessly trawling over the mistakes of the past is really futile and divisive. We needed the money, we sold the players. Thats that. Move on...

 

[Big Mart]

Does it fuck. The new emphasis on the academy is because we're skint. The sale of the Kyles was because we're skint. We're skint because we appointed Robson with an open cheque book and invested in property at the height of a boom.

You flippantly refer to the balance sheet as though it's something we could ignore if we liked. It's that silly logic that lead to the appointment of Robson with an open cheque book and investing in property at the height of a boom.

It's not rocket science.

I don't think there's any flippancy to Lenwards comments, quite the opposite. I think Lenny boy, like most of us who care to admit it, is so pissed off that we managed to fritter away a small fortune, and an opportunity to finally become a big club that he's become bitter and twisted towards the club he once loved, not a criticism from me because I feel just the same. We've been let down by a captain of industry, or at least a top level investor and it hurts.

We were told that we were the next big thing, Sheffields number one, Europe in 5 years blah blah blah and it was nice while it lasted, till Stephen Gerrard took that dive on the opening day of the season to be honest, and then it all went tits up. We stuck with a cowardly manager who was out of his depth, we signed crap players and relegation was inevitable.

Now we're skint, we're relegation fodder, we have a declining fan base and we aint doing a deal about it so rather than have a dig at a bloke who cares, aim your anger at the people in charge who've allowed it to happen. We had cash from the Prem, we had the Tevez cash, now we don't have any, what a way to run a business.

---------- Post added at 08:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:44 AM ----------

We all kind of agree that we'd have liked to have kept Walker and Naughton. However, endlessly trawling over the mistakes of the past is really futile and divisive. We needed the money, we sold the players. Thats that. Move on...

So let's all ignore the past mistakes and give everyone a slap on the back for our current plight. Ignoring the past implies that it wasn't important, but we are where we are as a result of the errors made, therefore burying your head in the sand helps no one.

 

[shorehamview]

Ignoring the past implies that it wasn't important, but we are where we are as a result of the errors made, therefore burying your head in the sand helps no one.

But surely putting Sheffield United's woes solely down to the sale of two young and relatively inexperienced players is rather naive? To say the sale of the two Kyles was the act that ripped the soul out of Sheffield United ignores the past mistakes that have contributed to where we are and trivialises contributions of greater players than those two, whose sale was a mistake but nowhere near as traumatic as the sales of, for example, Tony Currie or Brian Deane.

 

[Big Mart]

But surely putting Sheffield United's woes solely down to the sale of two young and relatively inexperienced players is rather naive? To say the sale of the two Kyles was the act that ripped the soul out of Sheffield United ignores the past mistakes that have contributed to where we are and trivialises contributions of greater players than those two, whose sale was a mistake but nowhere near as traumatic as the sales of, for example, Tony Currie or Brian Deane.

Think that's the crux of it, fellows of a certain age have had to put up with this shit for many a year, and after a while it gets to the point where you just think "f**k it". The problem here is that this chairman has always banged on about what a big Blade he is and how much he loves the club, he highlighted his grand plans and his dreams of big club status. One season in the Premiership and that's it?

Sorry, letting that slip and selling off the family jewels isn't what we expected so for the current crop then yes, it does rip the heart out of the club. We're in great danger of slipping into the abyss here, come on moneybags, say something or do something to stop that please.

 

[mall]

We all kind of agree that we'd have liked to have kept Walker and Naughton. However, endlessly trawling over the mistakes of the past is really futile and divisive. We needed the money, we sold the players. Thats that. Move on...

Ah, yes.
Let's all protect the luvvies who made some really poor football decisions, from all criticism.
That way, they may feel empowered to make many more of them.
But, you don't seem to mind...ever.

 

[Trigger Blade]

I think Lenny boy, like most of us who care to admit it, is so pissed off

rather than have a dig at a bloke who cares, aim your anger at the people in charge who've allowed it to happen.

Really? len pissed off? Whatever gave you that idea, apart from every one of his postings for the last five years. Thanks for pointing it out HH.

len (who cares), cares so much that he wouldn't even go to the AGM, because it was held in the hotel, not at Bramall Lane, it's the principle you see. len (who cares), did go to the AGM last year, but didn't direct his anger at anyone, just kept quiet. I don't doubt for a minute that len cares, just not that much.

Personally, I get on really well with him. He's like a father to me, he even calls me son.

 

[Rattly Noise]

Ah, yes.
Let's all protect the luvvies who made some really poor football decisions, from all criticism.
That way, they may feel empowered to make many more of them.
But, you don't seem to mind...ever.

Look, every club makes mistakes. We're no different. Eventually you have to let it drop or the club will never move forward for fear of making the same mistake again. Sometimes the decisions work out, sometimes not, but let's look to the future instead of dwelling in the past. What's done is done and while you need to remember the mistakes so you don't make the same ones again, you do have to accept that there's nothing that can be done about it now.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Indeed, the board itself recognises this in its new and improved approach to youth development.

And your response to this is to take cheep shots from the sidelines and claim they will all be sold. Surely if you accept there is a new and improved approach to youth development you have to therefore accept that the approach to overspending on the wage bill being funded by the sales of this talent might also have changed. Given our drive to reduce the wage bill the currently available evidence would seem to point to that fact.

 

[lenners]

And your response to this is to take cheep shots from the sidelines and claim they will all be sold. Surely if you accept there is a new and improved approach to youth development you have to therefore accept that the approach to overspending on the wage bill being funded by the sales of this talent might also have changed. Given our drive to reduce the wage bill the currently available evidence would seem to point to that fact.

I don't think it was me who said they would be sold.
I trust the board. They said they want to bring through young players, local players, build the team around them.
What's not to trust?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

We all kind of agree that we'd have liked to have kept Walker and Naughton. However, endlessly trawling over the mistakes of the past is really futile and divisive. We needed the money, we sold the players. Thats that. Move on...

I'd agree with that entirely, it is also worth noting that both players do have the same agent and none of us know with any certainty if the agent took the opportunity to move both players on. What we do know is that both players new contracts were nearly ten times what they were currently on.
It is also a fact that if both players haven't proven themselves not to be good enough/wanted at Spurs and are available on the market right now. In addition to that, both could be bought back this month for a much smaller transfer fee than we received. I would even suggest that if you offered half the £9 Million we received upfront you would probably be allowed to discuss terms.

---------- Post added at 12:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------

I don't think it was me who said they would be sold.
I trust the board. They said they want to bring through young players, local players, build the team around them.
What's not to trust?

Really it must have been another Lenners who posted

"With a bit of luck Lowton will improve and we can sell him and there's always the chance one of the Irish lads could have a sparkling half a season and we can sell him as well."

 

[lenners]

But surely putting Sheffield United's woes solely down to the sale of two young and relatively inexperienced players is rather naive? To say the sale of the two Kyles was the act that ripped the soul out of Sheffield United ignores the past mistakes that have contributed to where we are and trivialises contributions of greater players than those two, whose sale was a mistake but nowhere near as traumatic as the sales of, for example, Tony Currie or Brian Deane.

Not the only thing Shoreham, but the one thing that did more than anything to destroy the heart of the club.
When that's added to by the influx of an endless stream of players on loan with no connection to the club, you do lose the soul and the identity of United.
You and a few others may choose to bury heads in the sand but everyone else can see the reality of what an empty vessel our club has become over the last two years.
It's a central reason for why so many people, so many long-standing fans just walked away.
Watching an ever-changing team that you can't relate to simply isn't what watching your local team should be about.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Ah, yes.
Let's all protect the luvvies who made some really poor football decisions, from all criticism.
That way, they may feel empowered to make many more of them.
But, you don't seem to mind...ever.

Have you got the money to replace the current owner? If not your comments are just wishful thinking.
The other point is you seem to think that they make these decisions deliberately. McCabe has a lot of money tied up in United and it is in his interests to ensure we don't drop further. You think they intend to keep making this mistakes just for a laugh?
McCabe made his first positive move in this regard by appointing Birch, however to my mind he made a regressive step by not allowing him to run the club totally and go with his own decisions. Birch was allowed to appoint Pemberton which shows he has learnt a little but McCabe makes the final decisions regarding the first team.

 

[lenners]

I'd agree with that entirely, it is also worth noting that both players do have the same agent and none of us know with any certainty if the agent took the opportunity to move both players on. What we do know is that both players new contracts were nearly ten times what they were currently on.
It is also a fact that if both players haven't proven themselves not to be good enough/wanted at Spurs and are available on the market right now. In addition to that, both could be bought back this month for a much smaller transfer fee than we received. I would even suggest that if you offered half the £9 Million we received upfront you would probably be allowed to discuss terms.

---------- Post added at 12:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------



Really it must have been another Lenners who posted

"With a bit of luck Lowton will improve and we can sell him and there's always the chance one of the Irish lads could have a sparkling half a season and we can sell him as well."

Bob, just a bit of sarcasm son.
I think if you look back through there were other posters quickly saying we would do it again and one who said he hoped we would.
The board have said what the plan is.
What's not to trust?
After all, Pembo, who wants the Arsenal of the north approach, is already on the same hymn sheet as Adams (we've got to get it forward as soon as).

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Not the only thing Shoreham, but the one thing that did more than anything to destroy the heart of the club.
When that's added to by the influx of an endless stream of players on loan with no connection to the club, you do lose the soul and the identity of United.
You and a few others may choose to bury heads in the sand but everyone else can see the reality of what an empty vessel our club has become over the last two years.
It's a central reason for why so many people, so many long-standing fans just walked away.
Watching an ever-changing team that you can't relate to simply isn't what watching your local team should be about.

I don't agree with this. I think there are several reasons that fans walked away (not the number you claimed would do incidentally but that's an argument for another thread). One was Blackwell and the style, another was the Premiership followers realising we wont bounce straight back, another was the current tightening of wallets that you might have noticed, another would be that we weren't going to make big name signings.
I don't think the two right backs staying would effect any of this, if that was the reason then surely with more academy players having made their début so far this season half season tickets should go through the roof.

---------- Post added at 12:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 PM ----------

After all, Pembo, who wants the Arsenal of the north approach, is already on the same hymn sheet as Adams (we've got to get it forward as soon as).

Again you just makes things up to match your argument. Can you provide a quote from Pembo where he states this?

 

[lenners]

I don't agree with this. I think there are several reasons that fans walked away (not the number you claimed would do incidentally but that's an argument for another thread). One was Blackwell and the style, another was the Premiership followers realising we wont bounce straight back, another was the current tightening of wallets that you might have noticed, another would be that we weren't going to make big name signings.
I don't think the two right backs staying would effect any of this, if that was the reason then surely with more academy players having made their début so far this season half season tickets should go through the roof.

Indeed, even more have walked than I thought.
Spectacularly more than you thought.
You underestimate what fans relate to, what's important. I heard the board even recognised this at the agm.

 

[shorehamview]

You and a few others may choose to bury heads in the sand but everyone else can see the reality of what an empty vessel our club has become over the last two years.

If you think I'm burying my head in the sand with regards to United being in the shit then you really are the sort of patronising idiot who only reads his own postings. I've criticised the club when I've felt it was due. Because I disagree with you doesn't mean I've got my head in the sand. Walker and Naughton weren't the be-all and end-all that you would have your disciples believe. Sheffield United have systematically "ripped out the soul" over the years and if you'd been paying attention you'd have realised that. It's called selling players - they've done lots of that. We might not like it when it happens though.

You had your head up your own arse or in the sand, metaphorically speaking of course, when you had the chance to present your views to Sheffield United at the last AGM and chickened out.

Boycott schmoycott. You bottled it. Everyone else can see that you did, it's just you failing to see the irony.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Indeed, even more have walked than I thought.
Spectacularly more than you thought.
You underestimate what fans relate to, what's important. I heard the board even recognised this at the agm.

As I said an argument for another thread so I won't let you de-rail this thread by getting into a long winded argument. But the facts are these:

You said we would get less renewals than Wednesday - you were well out.
You said that we would lose 7,000 ST holders - you were well out.
When Shields said we would have less then 14,500 ST holders you support it - you were out.
I believe I said 15-16K ST holders and I think I'm within those limits although it is certainly toward the lower end and yes it was less than I thought.

Feel free to have your obligatory last work on this, but it wont alter what you claimed.

Back to your OP - I think the majority of fans on here have confirmed that for most of us it won't be gutting to see Kyle Walker playing for Aston Villa. In fact I'm quite chuffed for the lad and hope he gets a permanent move.

 

[shorehamview]

You underestimate what fans relate to, what's important. I heard the board even recognised this at the agm.

No you didn't hear it at all. You boycotted the AGM, remember? In the hotel, remember? Copthorne, remember? Not going because it wasn't at Bramall Lane, remember?

Somebody else heard it for you.


And as far as becoming "an empty vessel over the last two years", are you saying all was wonderful before that?Sheffield United were formed in 1889, not 2006 when they were in the Premier League. See Brealey, Reg and Woolhose, Paul. Colombotti, Carlo and MacDonald, Mike. We've had our souls ripped put more times than we care to think about, all over considerably more time than the last two years.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

As I said an argument for another thread so I won't let you de-rail this thread by getting into a long winded argument. But the facts are these:

You said we would get less renewals than Wednesday - you were well out.
You said that we would lose 7,000 ST holders - you were well out.
When Shields said we would have less then 14,500 ST holders you support it - you were out.
I believe I said 15-16K ST holders and I think I'm within those limits although it is certainly toward the lower end and yes it was less than I thought.

Feel free to have your obligatory last work on this, but it wont alter what you claimed.

Back to your OP - I think the majority of fans on here have confirmed that for most of us it won't be gutting to see Kyle Walker playing for Aston Villa. In fact I'm quite chuffed for the lad and hope he gets a permanent move.

I'm gutted he's not playing for us still. I can see why he was sold, but i'm still gutted about it.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Fair enough HB but I would say you are in the minority.

I'm gutted that blowing our money on Robson meant we took a massive step back but I'm not that Walker has the opportunity to kick on and improve at Villa.
I'm disappointed he isn't lining up for us, but gutted? No.

 

[DuncDisorderly]

Ah, yes.
Let's all protect the luvvies who made some really poor football decisions, from all criticism.
That way, they may feel empowered to make many more of them.
But, you don't seem to mind...ever.

...and you, like a few others, don't actually listen to a word I say.

Once a decision is made, thats that. If you make decisions, then you will inevitably make mistakes. Getting it wrong doesn't say 'incompetant' or 'negligent' it says 'human'.

Good decision or bad decision, we can't turn the clock back, so why do we have yet another long thread populated with the rest of the usual wrist slitters raking over it with the benefit of hindsight. We've sold plenty of players we shouldn't have and bought plenty we shouldn't have either, just like every club.

Or maybe you think we should be unique in never getting anything wrong? Do you ever make mistakes Mall, or are you 'practically perfect in every way'..?

 

[JJ Sefton]

Fair enough HB but I would say you are in the minority.

Im sad he was sold, same as I was with Naughton and Jags. But I was also sad when Brown got sold, Deane got sold, Fjortoft and Deane got sold, same as my dad was when Currie got sold and Mick Jones got sold and my grandad was when Jimmy Dunne got sold...its what we do. To jump from that to losing the 'soul' of the club suggests a poster who does, as has been pointed out, think United were formed in 2006.

 

[Big Mart]

...and you, like a few others, don't actually listen to a word I say.

Maybe that's because you never say anything worth listening to. Dear God, you accuse Len of being repetetive All you seem to do is bury your head in the sand, instantly forget whatever's just been dished up then skip towards the future where everything will be rosy for the unbeatable Blades.

Nowt wrong with a bit of optimism but blind faith is just that, BLIND :thumbdown:

 

[DuncDisorderly]

Maybe that's because you never say anything worth listening to. Dear God, you accuse Len of being repetetive All you seem to do is bury your head in the sand, instantly forget whatever's just been dished up then skip towards the future where everything will be rosy for the unbeatable Blades.

Nowt wrong with a bit of optimism but blind faith is just that, BLIND :thumbdown:

...and if you really think that, then you Sir are a bufoon...

 

[Big Mart]

Which makes you what exactly, an enlightened supporter, a true fan? Sorry to disagree matey, but it would appear that you are the buffoon as you constantly defend the indefensible.

I'm off to partake in a few beers now, and no I don't think that's clever but while I do that, you skip along in your Magical Blades Wonderland, I'm sure you'll be happy and find peace there.

 

[mall]

...and you, like a few others, don't actually listen to a word I say.

Once a decision is made, thats that. If you make decisions, then you will inevitably make mistakes. Getting it wrong doesn't say 'incompetant' or 'negligent' it says 'human'.

Good decision or bad decision, we can't turn the clock back, so why do we have yet another long thread populated with the rest of the usual wrist slitters raking over it with the benefit of hindsight. We've sold plenty of players we shouldn't have and bought plenty we shouldn't have either, just like every club.

Or maybe you think we should be unique in never getting anything wrong? Do you ever make mistakes Mall, or are you 'practically perfect in every way'..?

I'm not practically perfect in any way at all...but maybe you think you are.
What I am is I am a long standing supporter who has seen the same mistakes repeated time and time again....ad infinitum, and that gives me a broad canvas on which to criticise.
I haven't set myself up as an entertainment medium as SUFC have; I merely give them lots of money with which to provide entertainment as lots of other teams do.
Take a look at where we are....once again, and deny me my right to comment on anything I see fit...and to compare the running of our club compared to other clubs who have a small attendance base and somehow do much more with their resources than we do.
There is nothing like a league table to form comparisons, not only with on the field activities, but the people who are custodians of this club.
And of now, our custodians, in my world, are a shabby lot who wouldn't score in a coconut shy.

 

[alcoblade]

It's difficult not t be disappointed with events at United. What I find daft is those who cheered along as we acquired tens of mllions of debt in property, paid £2M per year to individual players in England's second division, signed up to £40M of ground development to buy a word cup slot - then talk about inevitable players sales as though that's what fucked us up.

If we're going to live in the past, I think we should remember exactly at what point we lost the plot. That's how we'll hopefully learn the lessons. Player sales have always and will always be part of football.

UTB