Is it time to change the manager?

[Bellypork]

No chance, and I'm an Owl. The problem is that the higher up the footballing pyramid you go, the harder it is to find affordable players who fit into Wilder's way of doing things. Unearthing gems is far more difficult playing at this level, and British players already good enough are financially out of reach. Wilder doesn't appear to like foreign players, probably because he doubts they'll hack it, or maybe because he doesn't have the knowledge of the foreign market that he has of the lower British leagues. So I'd say the solution is to do a Brentford. Massively (I can't help it) increase the size of the foreign scouting network, because surely there are some over the Channel in Europe who'll fit the bill.

 

[west_yorks_blade]

How have so many Blades lost all perspective and become self-entitled PL-fan clones?

Great post and your first sentence sums it up perfectly.

Just think back to those very recent six years in division one. The frustration, the pain, the despondency - the sheer mediocrity.

We were becoming a basket case on a terminal decline.

And look where we are now and who has got us there. That’s premier league and Chris wilder.

How have so many blades lost all perspective and become so entitled? A very sad state of affairs.

 

[United Aren't Back.]

No chance, and I'm an Owl. The problem is that the higher up the footballing pyramid you go, the harder it is to find affordable players who fit into Wilder's way of doing things. Unearthing gems is far more difficult playing at this level, and British players already good enough are financially out of reach. Wilder doesn't appear to like foreign players, probably because he doubts they'll hack it, or maybe because he doesn't have the knowledge of the foreign market that he has of the lower British leagues. So I'd say the solution is to do a Brentford. Massively (I can't help it) increase the size of the foreign scouting network, because surely there are some over the Channel in Europe who'll fit the bill.

Thanks bellypork.
Keep contributing boss.

 

[Charlieblade]

The short answer to this question is no, it isn’t time to change the manager. I’m late replying to this because I thought, it must be a joke or a wind up. Not sure if it has been mentioned, but I think most fans realise we simply don’t have the resources to survive in the PL.
We have a cracking bunch of lads, and a quality management team, but we cannot hope to compete with the top six financially, when it comes to our budget for signing top talent from UK and around Europe.
No one knows for sure, but it seems Wilder seems to have lost out on most of his first choice recruitment targets, because as a club, our wage ceiling can’t even match Burnley.
Wilder is well known for his attitude to spending the clubs money, so it’s no surprise we missed a few targets on asking price alone.
Add to this the impact of Covid, international travel for national teams, and an injury list to key players, who are joined by those who have inexplicably lost form or reached their peak early and are now fading.
It wouLD not surprise me to learn that Basham was to be banned for failing a sex tes due to taking testosterone supplements.
Could our squad have any more bad luck befall them? We got away with a very solid defence last year, with few absences due to injury, and a team ethos that got us up with the gods of the game for a while.
I expect the team, and Wilder, were stunned by their success, first season back.
Without a doubt, the standard in the PL is higher all round this season, but all is not lost yet.
Have Villa got a secret to the success they have enjoyed so far, or have they finally bought wisely at last?
Given our lowly status, we have no business being in the EPL, just on finance alone. But all is not lost. Despite lacking unanimous boardroom support for some buys this last close season, Wilder has found a fair bit of wedge behind a lot of settees.
Like a lot of his players, Wilder is coming terms with PL football expectations. He is not found wanting, just lacking the funds to go for top players, and hemmed in by a paltry, if realistic wage cap.
We have seen enough to know that he is not perfect, but he is not naive either. We should accept our good fortune, and Wilders skill set that could get us 3 seasons on the run, still in the EPL.
Despite a dodgy start, I have no doubt that my prediction of a top ten finish this season will come to pass.
Maybe after being around the top league in the world for 3 seasons we can acknowledge Wilders nous and finesse in keeping us there, and paying salaries appropriate to the division.

In the unlikely event that we are relegated this season, I’m
Sure we don’t want just anyone leading us back to the top table. Wilder is a blade though and through, and he and we, wouldn’t want it any other way.

Sorry S6 but I think it’s way to early to be asking this question. It not the question that I object to, just the timing

 

[CoatesyBlade]

Threads like this are just an embarrassment. Imagine other football fans visiting our forum and reading this!
The man has taken us from tears to glory. As far as I’m concerned CW already has tenure. He’s our Fergie... our Clough!

We’re just failing to convert our chances and getting no luck whatsoever at the minute.
We looked a lot better going forward with Berge at RCM. I’m hoping he plays that role for the rest of the season. Even if that means Ampadu plays the deeper role.

The tide will turn and a run of good results will come... in the meantime can we put an end to garbage like this. It’s not doing anyone any good really is it.

 

[N20 Blade]

Blade56 posed two questions, mainly:

Is it time to change manager?
Do we support CW at all costs or Sheffield United’s future?

As stated, it's a 'no' to the first one but I'm struggling with the second. Surely, there is a point in the medium term, where United's future matters more than supporting CW, if things go badly wrong, for a prolonged period of time? It seems that the majority would take relegation, so long as Wilder stays. I genuinely doubt that those fans would all feel that way next May, if that proves to be the case. Maybe I'm wrong.

I've certainly not lost perspective or become self-entitled, I treat our time in the PL as a bonus and intend to enjoy it whatever, as the alternative of league levels 2 & 3 is more normal in my experience of supporting United over 30 years, and far less exciting. Therefore, I would like to do all we can to stay in the PL, despite all our disadvantages. To me, the longer we stay, the better the club's future, ideally that would be with CW in charge, but if not, surely it is worth considering a change at some stage this season?

Relegation has a certain smell about it, we've all been through it several times here and to me, this season has it already. We all know the combination of factors but if, which is likely, we lose the next three games, we will have one point from eight games. Sure, we should be patient, wait and assess, but I can't see that if we're in single figures in the new year, that either (a) we can get out of it or (b) CW will be in the right frame of mind to get us out of it. Additionally, how many managers take a team down and then bring them back up? Bassett, himself said that he regrets not leaving in 1994, he was too loyal, the fans too loyal, and the club suffered.

People talk about perspective but let's be honest the only one that counts is the owner's and more likely than not, he will be more objective, less subjective, than most and make the decision accordingly. If the relegation smell lingers, it will be when not if.

 

[Niceguyeddie]

Blade56 posed two questions, mainly:

Is it time to change manager?
Do we support CW at all costs or Sheffield United’s future?

As stated, it's a 'no' to the first one but I'm struggling with the second. Surely, there is a point in the medium term, where United's future matters more than supporting CW, if things go badly wrong, for a prolonged period of time? It seems that the majority would take relegation, so long as Wilder stays. I genuinely doubt that those fans would all feel that way next May, if that proves to be the case. Maybe I'm wrong.

I've certainly not lost perspective or become self-entitled, I treat our time in the PL as a bonus and intend to enjoy it whatever, as the alternative of league levels 2 & 3 is more normal in my experience of supporting United over 30 years, and far less exciting. Therefore, I would like to do all we can to stay in the PL, despite all our disadvantages. To me, the longer we stay, the better the club's future, ideally that would be with CW in charge, but if not, surely it is worth considering a change at some stage this season?

Relegation has a certain smell about it, we've all been through it several times here and to me, this season has it already. We all know the combination of factors but if, which is likely, we lose the next three games, we will have one point from eight games. Sure, we should be patient, wait and assess, but I can't see that if we're in single figures in the new year, that either (a) we can get out of it or (b) CW will be in the right frame of mind to get us out of it. Additionally, how many managers take a team down and then bring them back up? Bassett, himself said that he regrets not leaving in 1994, he was too loyal, the fans too loyal, and the club suffered.

People talk about perspective but let's be honest the only one that counts is the owner's and more likely than not, he will be more objective, less subjective, than most and make the decision accordingly. If the relegation smell lingers, it will be when not if.

Only thing I can smell is bacon

 

[N20 Blade]

Only thing I can smell is bacon

Hopefully I'm way off and this debate is completely hypothetical.

 

[GymClassHero]

Tbh I can understand why you’re asking the question. The answer is a firm NO.

Wilder has got us where we are on merit, not with obscene amounts of money (see Villa and Leeds) and deserves the benefit of the doubt. If you cast your mind back, our signings last season were made with the presumption that if we did go down, (it wasn’t us waving the white flag before the season began as some idiotic punters made out) Wilder would be able to lead us straight back up.

In my opinion, the board see Chris here for a long, long time. That includes if we are relegated. We are a project and there is no better person to guide us than Chris Wilder.

 

[Latters]

Only thing I can smell is bacon

What a bag of bollocks. Why do people continuously bore everyone by accusing anybody with a different viewpoint of being a pig? It gets right on my tits. The bloke has literally just said that United’s future is more important that CW’s. How on earth is that something a pig would say? Read the fucking post rather than getting the basic gist, thinking “I disagree with that, I’m going to call him a pig”. It’s just very tedious.

 

[N20 Blade]

Tbh I can understand why you’re asking the question. The answer is a firm NO.

Wilder has got us where we are on merit, not with obscene amounts of money (see Villa and Leeds) and deserves the benefit of the doubt. If you cast your mind back, our signings last season were made with the presumption that if we did go down, (it wasn’t us waving the white flag before the season began as some idiotic punters made out) Wilder would be able to lead us straight back up.

In my opinion, the board see Chris here for a long, long time. That includes if we are relegated. We are a project and there is no better person to guide us than Chris Wilder.

Makes perfect sense, if that's the case and it really is a 'united' United project, then 100% agree. I guess that's the unknown (to me at least) what the five year plan, or similar, really is. If they have made sensible relegation recovery contingencies then that in itself is re-assuring..

 

[N20 Blade]

What a bag of bollocks. Why do people continuously bore everyone by accusing anybody with a different viewpoint of being a pig? It gets right on my tits. The bloke has literally just said that United’s future is more important that CW’s. How on earth is that something a pig would say? Read the fucking post rather than getting the basic gist, thinking “I disagree with that, I’m going to call him a pig”. It’s just very tedious.

Crikey, I was hoping that was irony being called a pig! Well there's a first for everything!

 

[Niceguyeddie]

Crikey, I was hoping that was irony being called a pig! Well there's a first for everything!

It was just a joke
I'll caption.it next time

 

[Champagneblade]

I wouldn't question Wilders position. Has he done a superb job - yes. Is he beyond question - no.

I would question this - how many of the signings since moving to the PL could be sold for an equal or higher fee?

McBurnie 17.5 to 20m. Definitely not. Champ wouldn't pay that amount. Prem wouldn't think he's done enough.

Mousset 10m. Also unlikely. 6 goals, decent vs Man U and Arsenal then some personal issues and form, goals and availability fell off a cliff. Now injured more than not.

Freeman 6m. No. He's 30 next birthday. Inexplicable why we loaned him so easily. We should have waited to the last day. Worst case would have been a loan, best case we may have got an offer to buy. Given Fleck's injury we may have legitimately decided to keep.

Robinson 7m. Sold for 2-3m plus Burke. All depends on how Burke turns out. At the moment Robinson has scored 3 for WBA, Burke has none for us.

Osborn 3.5m. Had his moments but not sure enough to suggest someone will match or top what we paid out.

Ramsdale 18.5m tops. Growing in confidence. If relegated, might get what we'd paid to date. Much better the last 2 or 3 games.

Berge 22m. Might get less if sold now. Needs to show he can dominate large portions of games. Not do well for 45 then be blowing after an hour. Potential to increase if he can build on this.

Brewster 20m to 23m. Too early.

No manager gets all signings right.

In contrast to coming up, where long term purchases have continued to appreciate - Baldock, Stevens, Egan, O'Connell, Norwood, Lundstram, Fleck, there have been more misses than hits.

Despite 2 years of PL money, the team that ended the Championship season could still legitimately be our first XI, which says to me we haven't kicked on as much as we'd like.

1st choice defence still the same. Keeper, young promising. 1st choice Midfield could legitimately be Lunny, Norwood and Fleck. All a bit much of a muchness with Berge having more potential but needs better conditioning. McGoldrick and Sharp could start and be as effective as McBurnie and Burke have been so far.

We outgrew some players on the way up. We've struggled to transition to a fully fledged PL team so far despite the good season last season.

I hope Brewster and Berge can kick us on but with the benefit of hindsight in the cold light of day, we haven't wisely invested 44m plus wages in McBurnie, Mousset, Robinson, Freeman Burke and Osborn to date.

Just my 2 cents but I'm disappointed in the return on what is a good deal of money to SUFC.

 

[Latters]

It was just a joke
I'll caption.it next time

It’s hard to tell on here sometimes. “Pig” or “bacon” seems to be the default cry when someone disagrees with something and it gets tiresome.

 

[Charlieblade]

I wouldn't question Wilders position. Has he done a superb job - yes. Is he beyond question - no.

I would question this - how many of the signings since moving to the PL could be sold for an equal or higher fee?

McBurnie 17.5 to 20m. Definitely not. Champ wouldn't pay that amount. Prem wouldn't think he's done enough.

Mousset 10m. Also unlikely. 6 goals, decent vs Man U and Arsenal then some personal issues and form, goals and availability fell off a cliff. Now injured more than not.

Freeman 6m. No. He's 30 next birthday. Inexplicable why we loaned him so easily. We should have waited to the last day. Worst case would have been a loan, best case we may have got an offer to buy. Given Fleck's injury we may have legitimately decided to keep.

Robinson 7m. Sold for 2-3m plus Burke. All depends on how Burke turns out. At the moment Robinson has scored 3 for WBA, Burke has none for us.

Osborn 3.5m. Had his moments but not sure enough to suggest someone will match or top what we paid out.

Ramsdale 18.5m tops. Growing in confidence. If relegated, might get what we'd paid to date. Much better the last 2 or 3 games.

Berge 22m. Might get less if sold now. Needs to show he can dominate large portions of games. Not do well for 45 then be blowing after an hour. Potential to increase if he can build on this.

Brewster 20m to 23m. Too early.

No manager gets all signings right.

In contrast to coming up, where long term purchases have continued to appreciate - Baldock, Stevens, Egan, O'Connell, Norwood, Lundstram, Fleck, there have been more misses than hits.

Despite 2 years of PL money, the team that ended the Championship season could still legitimately be our first XI, which says to me we haven't kicked on as much as we'd like
1st choice defence still the same. Keeper, young promising. 1st choice Midfield could legitimately be Lunny, Norwood and Fleck. All a bit much of a muchness with Berge having more potential but needs better conditioning. McGoldrick and Sharp could start and be as effective as McBurnie and Burke have been so far.

We outgrew some players on the way up. We've struggled to transition to a fully fledged PL team so far despite the good season last season.

I hope Brewster and Berge can kick us on but with the benefit of hindsight in the cold light of day, we haven't wisely invested 44m plus wages in McBurnie, Mousset, Robinson, Freeman Burke and Osborn to date.

Just my 2 cents but I'm disappointed in the return on what is a good deal of money to SUFC.

I am not able to dissect every deal that Wider has been responsible for, but you have neatly divided our current assets into two groups, for the purpose of making your point. Look a little deeper and you could find reasons for their relative success in longer term buys, and the limited achievements of more recent buys.
All Wilders early buys, were players from similar EFL clubs who fit the profile of hard working players, with a point to prove. Talented individuals who had yet to make a promotion team and enjoy the success their undoubted talents deserved. Wilder was in his area of expertise and buying costs and wages, were not such a big issue. The manager and players, like Fleck, Egan, Stevens and O’Connell were rightly praised for their transformation and success. The players were also persuaded to buy in to an innovative tactical system.

A few years later, and the club, manager, and players are in new, unfamiliar, territory. We have a successful team, built on a low championship budget, but we can’t afford the asking price or wages of top EPL candidates, so we are fishing in a different pool of players, where the majority of potential at this new level is beyond our reach, even if they fit the player profile that Wilder wants.

We are in a new era, of prosperity, but the clubs last visit to the EPL did not require much in terms of development, like training and academy spending, or the small matter of buying the ground back along with other assets. The net result is a headline of 100m to spend on players and wages, and a group of supporters, who can’t see beyond this quandary.

Hence the players who arrived at the lane before our first EPL season, were bought from a small group with potential at a similar level to those bought previously .

Add in the massive step up to EPL status, and its perhaps easier to understand that some of those lads might struggle, and we were seen as a plucky club, on a hiding to nothing in our promotion season. We had little in the way of back up or squad depth, and we were very lucky that Wilder sensed we would need a strong defence, and a slice of good fortune elsewhere. The rest of last years experience is a history of enormous hard work and good fortune with few injuries and suspensions.

Then came the Covid cross roads. This not only blunted our ambitions on the playing side, with no crowds to watch it unfold, it also affected our playesr and managements ability to fix things. Established clubs still spending big money to buy their way out of trouble and poor old blades struggling to keep up.
A more than respectable placing at seasons end, simply encouraged us fans to dream of bigger and better. All the while, others have moved on, and we are stuck in the same poor rut, trying to compete with the establishment.
Buying players like Moose and McBurnie was always a gamble, A talent like Berge is a once in a lifetime opportunity, but he can’t do it on his own. He is definitely a step in the right direction. Loan players like Ampadu will benefit our side over a season, but thats all we can afford right now. Getting players with potential to learn and fit our system will take time.
How do we replace the likes of Sharp, Basham and McGoldrick? With younger lads that we will develop over time.
Youngsters like Osborn, Lowe and Bogle have time on their side, even McBurnie will come good eventually.

Trying to compete at this level with young, developing talent, is not an easy task. Our senior established players had time to learn and grow in lower leagues, the other, more recent additions need more patience from us if they are to flourish.

I can easily follow your train of thinking, but I think it requires us as fans, to sit back, look at the bigger picture, and have a little patience, and faith in our youthful development. Not all of them will make it, but its the best we can do with what we have.

ETA. Ramsdale is a one off buy outside my thoughts listed above. Hendo was brilliant, but unsustainable over the long term.

 

[bibbity bobbity boo]

My Forest supporting clown of a boss has just bet me £10 that Wilder will be sacked by Xmas. Thanks for the tenner knob head.

 

[Swinton Blade]

My Forest supporting clown of a boss has just bet me £10 that Wilder will be sacked by Xmas. Thanks for the tenner knob head.

Well with him being a forest fan he must be use to seeing managers getting sacked