Transfer interest repellent

[Swannyblade]

Just off the back of JOC being overlooked by England again, I wonder if our formation and system might be acting in our favour when it comes to other teams' lack of interest in our players as transfer targets.
It's widely suggested that Southgate hasn't considered any of our star players due to the "unique system" we play and the "specialist" roles they inhabit within said system.
Do we think other managers may also share this reservation and are reluctant to take a punt on our players due to the lack of evidence they can play in more conventional formations and systems.
I for one, believe this train of thought would be very unfair on our players as I think they have proven themselves to be quality and have every faith they could perform their role in other systems to the same high standards. However if other managers are buying into it, it could well be working in our favour when it comes to holding on to them.
Equally, being continually overlooked by England benefits us in terms of fitness and injury concerns, the only downside being the extra money it would slap on the asking price of an England international (as I've no interest in selling, this doesn't bother me).

 

[mattbianco1]

Just off the back of JOC being overlooked by England again, I wonder if our formation and system might be acting in our favour when it comes to other teams' lack of interest in our players as transfer targets.
It's widely suggested that Southgate hasn't considered any of our star players due to the "unique system" we play and the "specialist" roles they inhabit within said system.

The counter-argument to then, in JOC's case anyway is that if he can play our system, he can easily play England's system. He just holds his position as the LCB.

But Southgate inexcusably picks Dier as the LCB

 

[PokerBlade]

I think the only question mark over JOC is what he'd look like in a back four. At the same time, I'm not sure what qualities it is people would look for that he doesn't display. Wing backs are a more particular role and they get extra cover from the positioning of the three central defenders, so I can understand people having their doubts there to some extent. With Basham it's purely an age thing. But for JOC I'm genuinely surprised we haven't seen more paper talk at the very least. Not easily beaten on the deck, rarely beaten in the air, and we actually depend on his ability not just to play the ball out from the back but to be capable of playing in the opposition's half.

So, yes, I think you're right that our system deters interest to some extent, I just don't get it when it comes to O'Connell.

 

[Houso]

The JOC thing is interesting. He's been injured/infected all pre-season so Southgate was never going to pick him anyway. There's no doubt that Southgate DOES have favourites and some selections are perplexing. But, there have been enough rumours to suggest that he has watched Jack specifically and I see him being called up assuming his form continues and the new formation is the retained.

 

[Espania blade]

Just off the back of JOC being overlooked by England again, I wonder if our formation and system might be acting in our favour when it comes to other teams' lack of interest in our players as transfer targets.
It's widely suggested that Southgate hasn't considered any of our star players due to the "unique system" we play and the "specialist" roles they inhabit within said system.
Do we think other managers may also share this reservation and are reluctant to take a punt on our players due to the lack of evidence they can play in more conventional formations and systems.
I for one, believe this train of thought would be very unfair on our players as I think they have proven themselves to be quality and have every faith they could perform their role in other systems to the same high standards. However if other managers are buying into it, it could well be working in our favour when it comes to holding on to them.
Equally, being continually overlooked by England benefits us in terms of fitness and injury concerns, the only downside being the extra money it would slap on the asking price of an England international (as I've no interest in selling, this doesn't bother me).

Anybody can see that players such as Egan and JOC are good players, therefore they could easily adapt to any formation just as they do on "match days" and CW is constantly changing formation, every player at any club should be able to adapt to any formation if they are any good, it's the managers who are unable to "train" players into the many different formations - basically they are shit managers and Southgate is one of them, where at club level has he been successful ? he was appointed because he's a "yes" man and won't rock the boat, managerial ability doesn't come into it at England level.

 

[8lade]

It's true all of our players are wank and only know how to play one way, not one of our players would get into another football league team unless it was Fleetwood.

 

[BushBlade]

They’re professional managers, most of them have trophies to prove they’re competent. I think it’s fairly straightforward, JOC isn’t seen as a step forward for the top six clubs. I’m sure other PL clubs would be interested if they thought he was available but we’re probably not willing to sell him to a rival.

You don’t get huge amounts of business done between clubs outside the top six. Clubs tend to sign players from abroad, the EFL or players no longer wanted by a top six club, like Walcott or Welbeck, or from clubs that have been relegated, like Wilson or Rammers.

 

[Swannyblade]

They’re professional managers, most of them have trophies to prove they’re competent. I think it’s fairly straightforward, JOC isn’t seen as a step forward for the top six clubs. I’m sure other PL clubs would be interested if they thought he was available but we’re probably not willing to sell him to a rival.

You don’t get huge amounts of business done between clubs outside the top six. Clubs tend to sign players from abroad, the EFL or players no longer wanted by a top six club, like Walcott or Welbeck, or from clubs that have been relegated, like Wilson or Rammers.

I suppose that could be right - the market has changed and their is more power with the selling club.
Just surprised that teams like Chelsea who needed to upgrade their defence and have a manager who is a known admirer of the way we play, are linked to a player like Rice to convert him from a midfielder to a defender as oppose to going out and buying someone like JOC, who is a ready-made central defender and was a key part of one the stingiest defences in the Premier League last season. Not complaining because it benefits us, but just find it perplexing (in a nice sort of way)

 

[BushBlade]

I suppose that could be right - the market has changed and their is more power with the selling club.
Just surprised that teams like Chelsea who needed to upgrade their defence and have a manager who is a known admirer of the way we play, are linked to a player like Rice to convert him from a midfielder to a defender as oppose to going out and buying someone like JOC, who is a ready-made central defender and was a key part of one the stingiest defences in the Premier League last season. Not complaining because it benefits us, but just find it perplexing (in a nice sort of way)

Chelsea and the other top sides are expected to play open, attacking football which means defenders tend to get isolated more often. A key component of being a centre half for a top club is your one on one ability. They also tend to look at defenders who are proven at champions league level. They can buy any defender in the world that wants to play for them more than the club they’re currently at, within reason.
You look at someone like Christiansen, he’s a good player and I think we’d be delighted to have him but I don’t think they see him as the first choice alongside Rudiger. I think they’re looking for a defender better than Rudiger, or they won’t improve. Their aim is to win the league and as much as I rate JOC (he’s the player I’d least like us to lose), I don’t see him in a title chasing side.

 

[Punk Blade]

The obvious downside is if we have players whose international careers aren’t taking off due to a highly-specialised role, they may be more inclined to leave to play in a more conventional system to improve their long term international and club prospects.

I don’t see it myself, if we have two CBs and two WBs who play most of their football in tight areas in the opposition half, and still have one of the best defensive records in the league, then that means some combination of
A) extremely high fitness levels to get back into defensive shape quickly
B) good close ball control and passing accuracy so as not to lose possession when potentially exposed high up the pitch
C) excellent decision making and discipline in both when to commit to attacking positions and what to do in those positions

I struggle to think of a PL defence that wouldn’t be improved by JOC (essentially is he better than Joe Gomez?).

 

[Mojo]

Its just a bollocks excuse to justify not picking any of our players. Half of the players he picks do not play in the same system or style for their club.

Not to mention the absolute pisstake of putting Phillips straight in when more deserving players have been waiting months or years for a cap

The guy is simply not a very good manager and we will never win anything under him. He is good at diplomacy that's about it.

I don't mind anyway we could do with getting JOC on a new long term contract before he starts getting the national recognition he deserves because there arnt many centre backs around better than him.

 

[Bladesman]

Just off the back of JOC being overlooked by England again, I wonder if our formation and system might be acting in our favour when it comes to other teams' lack of interest in our players as transfer targets.
It's widely suggested that Southgate hasn't considered any of our star players due to the "unique system" we play and the "specialist" roles they inhabit within said system.
Do we think other managers may also share this reservation and are reluctant to take a punt on our players due to the lack of evidence they can play in more conventional formations and systems.
I for one, believe this train of thought would be very unfair on our players as I think they have proven themselves to be quality and have every faith they could perform their role in other systems to the same high standards. However if other managers are buying into it, it could well be working in our favour when it comes to holding on to them.
Equally, being continually overlooked by England benefits us in terms of fitness and injury concerns, the only downside being the extra money it would slap on the asking price of an England international (as I've no interest in selling, this doesn't bother me).

There is some truth to what you say since a lot of players who have left us have struggled to recreate the form they showed when they were here.

You wouldn't have thought Coutts and Duffy would be back playing in League 1 so soon after leaving us. When a season or two ago they were key first team players that we couldn't do without.

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

Personally, I think Wilder & Knill have created something very unique at SUFC.
The formation, the style of ply, getting the right players in to play in a specific role.
No round pegs in square holes.
Other managers will see / hear/ watch this happening and at some point, will attempt
at creating their specific version. Some may achieve success in certain matches, after they're turned from type,
to play in the CWAK model.

I do think the coming season will be an even better one than last season for SUFC, I filly expect to see at least one SUFC player in the
EPL Team of the Season. Sander Berge.

 

[robbiez666]

I don't think any of our defenders have proved themselves at the top level in a back 4. I suspect the wingbacks would find it easier to adjust. I doubt any 'better' clubs would see any of them as an upgrade and the players wouldn't want to move to a 'lesser' club. I think that goes for all our players at the moment, albeit Berge might be the one that would stand out.

It's good for us. We don't want big clubs sniffing around our players.

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

If Gareth Southgate managed The Beatles, he'd have John Lennon playing the drums and Ringo Starr as the frontman.

 

[mattbianco1]

I think the only question mark over JOC is what he'd look like in a back four.

But we play a back 3 under Southgate.

2 English players who are VERY used to playing in a central 3 are JOC and Coady. England's back five should be this:

Henderson/Pope
Walker/AArnold - Gomez - Coady/Maguire - O'Connell - Chilwell/Trippier
​

He always says he picks players on merit and performance. That has to be absolute bollocks as if so, Henderson, Baldock, Basham and O'Connell would have all been capped now.

 

[benn5712]

Anybody can see that players such as Egan and JOC are good players, therefore they could easily adapt to any formation just as they do on "match days" and CW is constantly changing formation,

Exactly. Footballers can play the game. It's what they do.

 

[BushBlade]

But we play a back 3 under Southgate.

2 English players who are VERY used to playing in a central 3 are JOC and Coady. England's back five should be this:

Henderson/Pope
Walker/AArnold - Gomez - Coady/Maguire - O'Connell - Chilwell/Trippier
​

He always says he picks players on merit and performance. That has to be absolute bollocks as if so, Henderson, Baldock, Basham and O'Connell would have all been capped now.

We’ve been playing a back four since the World Cup, I think the other night was the first time he’s played a back three since. Obviously JOC hasn’t even been fit enough for our pre-season so there’s no chance he would have been picked for these two games.

 

[Pittsburg Blade]

I filly expect to see at least one SUFC player in the
EPL Team of the Season. Sander Berge.

Quit horsing around

 

[mattbianco1]

JOC hasn’t even been fit enough for our pre-season so there’s no chance he would have been picked for these two games.

Let's hope that is the reason. Playing Dier at LCB is a disgrace.

Mings (left footed) would be a better choice

 

[raul]

JOC is quick, solid in his own box and threat in the other, is good with the ball at his feet, can beat a man and can put in a mean cross. There is nowhere for Waistcoat Man to hide on this. He's a Bellend. How can you take seriously a man who looks like Reginald Perrin when he came back as a pig farmer?

 

[BushBlade]

Let's hope that is the reason. Playing Dier at LCB is a disgrace.

Mings (left footed) would be a better choice

I was going to mention Mings. If he isn’t going to get picked over Dier, is he even going to be picked for the squad again? It’s like Southgate’s suddenly realised ‘actually, yeah, he’s shite, I think I’ve fucked up here’.

 

[Updemblades]

Dont know if already posted elsewhere, havent seen it so thought id share this...

Rangers boss Steven Gerrard told to sign United's John Lundstram

Rangers have been advised to make a move in the transfer market for United midfielder

www.examinerlive.co.uk

 

[RammyBlade]

I had high hopes that Southgate was, at last, changing from the idea that its only top 6 players who are good enough for England but when you look at him picking Dier as a left side centre back when he hasn't even played that position for his club is unbelievable.
Jack might not have been picked because of injury but if Dier continues to be picked instead of a natural left-footed CB than we know GS is a moron

 

[Chabuddy G]

They’re professional managers, most of them have trophies to prove they’re competent. I think it’s fairly straightforward, JOC isn’t seen as a step forward for the top six clubs. I’m sure other PL clubs would be interested if they thought he was available but we’re probably not willing to sell him to a rival.

You don’t get huge amounts of business done between clubs outside the top six. Clubs tend to sign players from abroad, the EFL or players no longer wanted by a top six club, like Walcott or Welbeck, or from clubs that have been relegated, like Wilson or Rammers.

He can actually defend, so he’s a huge step forward for 5/6 of the top clubs. He instantly makes Chelsea, City, Spurs, Arsenal and Man United’s backline better.

As do Dunk and Tarkowski.