Frustration

[boo radley]

To go on for those who like to pick on certain midfield players:

GARY SPEED: I've been a coach for a while so I haven't been with the group of player for a while and there's been a lot of change in personnel at the club. There's not many there now that were there when I was a player so... and the ones that are that were... the likes of Morgs, Monty and Quinny are probably three of the best professionals I've ever worked with so that's not going to be any issue.

come on people, Another chance for your hated pair?:thumbup:

 

[Cool Clint]

Gosh does that mean these people still wont renew season tickets?

 

[Pinchy]

He conspicuously fails to mention their footballing ability! I hope he has higher standards than you, Boo. If not he (and we) will drown in a sea of mediocrity.

We shall not succeed with non-footballers at the heart of our team. Did you not see how QPR brushed them aside with consummate ease.

I want success for our club; You are content with The Maestro and Elpiton. The two points of view are irreconcilable. I hope Speed has the strength of character to do what has to be done. If not, he'll pay the price.

 

[Worksop II]

Its funny how Speed mentions those 3, who just happen to be (I think) the ones with the newest Contracts, Speed must have had some Input into their re-signing.

I think he is shaping up for a keep it tight and dont lose at Boro`, which I suppose aint a bad thing.

I remember Robsons first game, his first chance to impress, a showing of intent, and he started with Monty and Legs of Wood in the Middle, rubbish.

I wonder if "the blades way" is gonna continue

 

[Torrix1889]

Being good pro's doesn't mean they are good footballers..............and it certainly doesn't in the case of the 3 named, 1 x thug, 1 x clueless and 1 x headless chicken....

 

[boo radley]

He conspicuously fails to mention their footballing ability! I hope he has higher standards than you, Boo. If not he (and we) will drown in a sea of mediocrity.

We shall not succeed with non-footballers at the heart of our team. Did you not see how QPR brushed them aside with consummate ease.

I want success for our club; You are content with The Maestro and Elpiton. The two points of view are irreconcilable. I hope Speed has the strength of character to do what has to be done. If not, he'll pay the price.

What a snobbish attitude you have, you dont know what my standards are. So there you go making a judgement on me after i have said nothing about the players you hate. I quoted our new manager. Unlike you i am open to changing my opinion on players, management,Board, ball boys tea lady, yes and even you.

 

[shorehamview]

What a snobbish attitude you have, you dont know what my standards are. So there you go making a judgement on me after i have said nothing about the players you hate. I quoted our new manager. Unlike you i am open to changing my opinion on players, management,Board, ball boys tea lady, yes and even you.

You are missing the point Boo. There are a few posters on here who are always right. There can be no middle ground with these chaps, because what they say goes. If they say it's raining don't bother checking, because they will be right, either in monsoon season or in the desert. Similarly because they attach nicknames to players they don't like they refuse to see anything other than the worst in these players. They believe that Gary Speed is a well-respected seasoned professional while simultaneously not knowing his arse from his elbow with regards to three players he's worked with for over two years or being able to make his mind up without said fans' help.

 

[Revolution]

I have no idea what Speed thinks of those 3 players, but he's hardly going to say they are no good is he? How often do managers do anything except talk their own players up? It would be especially silly to start pouring scorn on your players on the first day.

 

[1973_Blade]

You are missing the point Boo. There are a few posters on here who are always right. There can be no middle ground with these chaps, because what they say goes. If they say it's raining don't bother checking, because they will be right, either in monsoon season or in the desert. Similarly because they attach nicknames to players they don't like they refuse to see anything other than the worst in these players. They believe that Gary Speed is a well-respected seasoned professional while simultaneously not knowing his arse from his elbow with regards to three players he's worked with for over two years or being able to make his mind up without said fans' help.

Well said - there are some on here who have a blinkered view with no one else allowed to disagree, if they do they are also labelled. It would be interesting to find out what experience these guys have when it comes to football coaching and management. I for one passed the FA prelim badge back at college - being only one of 3 who did (from over 40 who did the week long course) and one of the other 2 was an ex-pro. It may not mean much, but I don't feel I can slag off players who have played so many games at such a high level - under a number of managers too.

 

[boo radley]

You are missing the point Boo. There are a few posters on here who are always right. There can be no middle ground with these chaps, because what they say goes. If they say it's raining don't bother checking, because they will be right, either in monsoon season or in the desert. Similarly because they attach nicknames to players they don't like they refuse to see anything other than the worst in these players. They believe that Gary Speed is a well-respected seasoned professional while simultaneously not knowing his arse from his elbow with regards to three players he's worked with for over two years or being able to make his mind up without said fans' help.

Ahh I see. So really I'm better of not trying to dig that big tree stump out of my garden but i should put a nice pott plant with lots of flowers on it instead?
Thanks for that SV advice taken, although on occasions i may be tempted to have a chop at that old tree stump.

 

[Houso]

I am curious though. If Speed continues to pick Quinn and Monty, following on from a number of other managers who have done the same, will this not prove that those IN football know more than a handful of whingers in the stands?

 

[raul]

Depends on whether results improve surely?

 

[chipsncake]

I am curious though. If Speed continues to pick Quinn and Monty, following on from a number of other managers who have done the same, will this not prove that those IN football know more than a handful of whingers in the stands?

Just because someone is "in" football doesn't make their judgement of a player any better than yours or mine. Some managers are able to spot a player and in the main are successful, others like Blackwell wouldn't recognise a decent player if one fell out the air and landed on his head. We will never move on as a football club, in the way the majority now want us to (ie no more hoofball), until we are rid of the likes of Monty, Quinn, Morgs, France, Taylor, Henderson, Kozzy (disgraceful decision to bring him back), etc., who are so limited technically that to involve them in a team whose object is to pass the ball would be embarrasing.

 

[Houso]

Give over. If someone who works (and in the main works successfully) in a given industry makes a judgement on a key facet of their job, then of course they're more qualified to make such a decision than someone who is little more than an observer.

Additionally, there's an interesting debate brewing on the hoofball vs potential passing style that many are wanking over. I've never noticed much patience for such a style when after a handful of passes, there are shouts of "Get it forward" and "He can only pass it sideways".

We played 'direct' football under Warnock and were in the main successful. There's a balance that can be maintained and players like Monty, Morgs and Henderson are fine in such a system. In fact, slagging off Morgs in particular is an insult.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

The bottom line is that Monty and Squinny have both played in successful teams playing decent football at this club and played their part so we know they've got it in them given the right tactics and the right players around them.

Unless Speed is going to play Ertl instead of Monty and with two wingers, I can't see either of them being left out in the near future.

 

[chipsncake]

Give over. If someone who works (and in the main works successfully) in a given industry makes a judgement on a key facet of their job, then of course they're more qualified to make such a decision than someone who is little more than an observer.

Additionally, there's an interesting debate brewing on the hoofball vs potential passing style that many are wanking over. I've never noticed much patience for such a style when after a handful of passes, there are shouts of "Get it forward" and "He can only pass it sideways".

We played 'direct' football under Warnock and were in the main successful. There's a balance that can be maintained and players like Monty, Morgs and Henderson are fine in such a system. In fact, slagging off Morgs in particular is an insult.

Being better qualified doesn't necessarily make someone a better judge, and i'm not slagging off Morgs at all, just pointing out the obvious that he's a very limited footballer, and if we are to change our style he will have to go along with the rest.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Just because someone is "in" football doesn't make their judgement of a player any better than yours or mine. Some managers are able to spot a player and in the main are successful, others like Blackwell wouldn't recognise a decent player if one fell out the air and landed on his head. We will never move on as a football club, in the way the majority now want us to (ie no more hoofball), until we are rid of the likes of Monty, Quinn, Morgs, France, Taylor, Henderson, Kozzy (disgraceful decision to bring him back), etc., who are so limited technically that to involve them in a team whose object is to pass the ball would be embarrasing.

Very harsh that one.

I think Blackie was looking for players who would play to his style and the more they could deliver that style the better they fitted his requirements. An example of this is Alan Wright who fans were disapointed with but was always one of Warnocks first choices because he constantly put the ball behind the oposiion full back. I never saw Warnock having a go at him, he always had a go at the player/s who had not made a run for Wright knowing full well where the ball was going. [I know it's not Blackie used as an example put I'm sure peole will know where I'm comimg from]. Wilder always wanted to bring the ball down and move it inside thru' midfield, I can remember him getting bollockings for doing so off Basset.

Managers pick the players who will work to their system. It doesn't mean they can't recognise a good un [Howard, Harper] but the players probabally were not happy with the system/way of playing and became de-motivated.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Being better qualified doesn't necessarily make someone a better judge, and i'm not slagging off Morgs at all, just pointing out the obvious that he's a very limited footballer, and if we are to change our style he will have to go along with the rest.

Who's going to get the ball back when we lose it so our maestros’ can dazzle us?

Big problem is that Monty and Quinn are too simular and we still lack the midfield play maker but we need one of them to do thedonkey work.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Very harsh that one.

I think Blackie was looking for players who would play to his style and the more they could deliver that style the better they fitted his requirements. An example of this is Alan Wright who fans were disapointed with but was always one of Warnocks first choices because he constantly put the ball behind the oposiion full back. I never saw Warnock having a go at him, he always had a go at the player/s who had not made a run for Wright knowing full well where the ball was going. [I know it's not Blackie used as an example put I'm sure peole will know where I'm comimg from]. Wilder always wanted to bring the ball down and move it inside thru' midfield, I can remember him getting bollockings for doing so off Basset.

Managers pick the players who will work to their system. It doesn't mean they can't recognise a good un [Howard, Harper] but the players probabally were not happy with the system/way of playing and became de-motivated.

Re Morgs, I also think in Bartley, he has a player alongside him who is happy to bring the ball out of defence and hopefully, Morgs will be instructed to pass more rather than hoof. As always though, it's all about movement and the players around and ahead of him showing for the ball. This is the area we need to improve on the most, it's a darn sight easier to pass the ball around when players are in space.

It's seemed for years, particularly at the Lane, that opposing teams seem to have so much time and space on the ball yet when we get it, we're surrounded by players and have nowhere to go and consequently no easy pass. How many times have any of our midfielders had time to look around and make defence splitting passes in recent times ?

 

[Worksop II]

I am curious though. If Speed continues to pick Quinn and Monty, following on from a number of other managers who have done the same, will this not prove that those IN football know more than a handful of whingers in the stands?

Speedo has to pick a team for Sunday, he cant say all my players are shite, and pass on the game, he has to turn a team out.

He will choose the best available to him, and that probably means Monty and Squinny.

Hopefully he realises their limitations and is able to do sumat about it

 

[Worksop II]

Who's going to get the ball back when we lose it so our maestros’ can dazzle us?

We got it back ok on Saturday with everyone playing crap, at the kickoff after the goals

 

[Revolution]

I really hope we don't see Quinn, Monty and Britton in the same midfield again. I suspect we will, though.

 

[boo radley]

I have no idea what Speed thinks of those 3 players, but he's hardly going to say they are no good is he? How often do managers do anything except talk their own players up? It would be especially silly to start pouring scorn on your players on the first day.

you cannot have had chance to catch up so try this: http://www.s24su.com/showthread.php?19900-Gary-Speed-speaks-Foxy-s-stuff-from-today its where he says what he thought of those players. - funny though i didnt think i'd just made a thread out of thin air.

Being better qualified doesn't necessarily make someone a better judge,

In the main it does otherwise how can you apoint your 'better Judge'? you have to use what you know about your candidates for the position and most in the stands know very little about managing a football team therefore we have to conclude that Mr Speed is the best judge on what we have available to work with.

Speedo has to pick a team for Sunday, he cant say all my players are shite, and pass on the game, he has to turn a team out.

He will choose the best available to him, and that probably means Monty and Squinny.

Hopefully he realises their limitations and is able to do sumat about it

Yes but he doesn't have to single any one out either. he could just say 'We have some great professionals who I'm looking forward to working with'.
Hang on he may have said that too?

 

[Eskimo]

Monty has played for United in the Premiership and during the promotion year and at other times we looked a much worse team when he was out.

On Saturday the whole team looked out of sorts but on a different day it might have been 2-3 or a draw. I think Blackwell was trying to change the style to a more passing game (maybe not enthusiastically) and it wasn't working yet. Speed will need time to experiment including with these three players and we'll have to be patient, which were not prepared to be any more for Blackwell.

 

[Eckingtonian]

One swallow doesnt make a summer.As i see it the main obstacle was removed on Saturday night.Speed could hardly start his managerial career by dropping half the players he inherited.It is going to take time.Let him take stock and then introduce the players he needs to play the style he wants to adapt.After all Robson brought in supposedly better players than we had and look what happened.Give the man a chance FFS.

 

[Houso]

Agree with Speed having to play the team that was left to him.

With that in mind, let's wait until the end of January to see what the team looks like before restarting this discussion.

 

[shorehamview]

One swallow doesnt make a summer.......

Or a very good porn film.

 

[boo radley]

Or a very good porn film.

That could depend on the judgement of who is watching? (naming no names of coarse).

 

[norfolkblade]

It'll be incredibly interesting to see how he approaches the game Sunday. Playing a Middlesbrough side full of SPL rejects who were pummelled at Leicester at the weekend yet somehow got a 0-0 out of it. I hope he takes the game to them personally, I'm fed up of negative tactics in recent times and hope he goes standard 4-4-2, with relatively decent wingers.

Therefore, I would like to see:

Simonsen

Ertl Bartley Morgan Taylor


Ward Britton Quinn Cresswell/Yeates


Evans Bogdanovic/Cresswell

 

[Grecian2000]

It'll be incredibly interesting to see how he approaches the game Sunday. Playing a Middlesbrough side full of SPL rejects who were pummelled at Leicester at the weekend yet somehow got a 0-0 out of it. I hope he takes the game to them personally, I'm fed up of negative tactics in recent times and hope he goes standard 4-4-2, with relatively decent wingers.

Therefore, I would like to see:

Simonsen

Ertl Bartley Morgan Taylor


Ward Britton Quinn Cresswell/Yeates


Evans Bogdanovic/Cresswell

I hope he gets at them and we go for the three rather than a Hoofy style "lets hope they don't score" approach.

I would say, if he saw Ertl play RB on Saturday, I don't think he'll be in a rush to see it again.