Ghost goal

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I dont buy the official statement from Hawkeye about the 7 x cameras not picking it up and it being the first time in 9000 games or so that this has happened. Sorry but I think it's bollox. If that was true, why then did the ref apparently tell sky afterwards that Hawkeye told him that it was a goal at half time.... Either the cameras picked up that it was over the line or they didn't. Strongly suggests that the system wasn't switched on for the first half....
 



The players didn’t appeal to the ref, they ran away celebrating as they’d seen the ball go over the line. The Villa lads stopped as they knew it was a goal and only carried on when the ref told us his watch hadn’t buzzed.

Both sets of players knew it was a goal. That should have been a big enough clue for VAR to check it.
 
I dont buy the official statement from Hawkeye about the 7 x cameras not picking it up and it being the first time in 9000 games or so that this has happened. Sorry but I think it's bollox. If that was true, why then did the ref apparently tell sky afterwards that Hawkeye told him that it was a goal at half time.... Either the cameras picked up that it was over the line or they didn't. Strongly suggests that the system wasn't switched on for the first half....

Yeah - IMO they just came up with some made up technical sounding six sigma event excuse to make it sound better than 'our system crashed' or 'we didn't turn it on'
 
The players didn’t appeal to the ref, they ran away celebrating as they’d seen the ball go over the line. The Villa lads stopped as they knew it was a goal and only carried on when the ref told us his watch hadn’t buzzed.

Both sets of players knew it was a goal. That should have been a big enough clue for VAR to check it.

VAR has proven to be the biggest pile of shit since Love Island was invented.
 
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I can reveal that it was Carlos Tevez running Hawkeye & Var at Villa Park tonight..
Look on the bright side, Villa might now send us down by one point..

Seriously though, it was a fucking disgrace that a perfectly good goal for you, wasn't given.
This kind of thing shouldn't be happening anymore.
Is I was in charge of the PL, I'd give you the goal & the 3 points retrospectively.
Trouble is as we know, they haven't got the gonads.
 
Haha! Your boys might be laughing on the other side of your faces if that actually happens, mate. :)
Doubt it though. Villa were rubbish before and they are still rubbish. You'll be fine.

UTB
It could happen mate...certainly not laughing..
Pleased to see some on kumb agreeing with me.
 
I can reveal that it was Carlos Tevez running Hawkeye & Var at Villa Park tonight..
Look on the bright side, Villa might now send us down by one point..

Seriously though, it was a fucking disgrace that a perfectly good goal for you, wasn't given.
This kind of thing shouldn't be happening anymore.
Is I was in ch8arge of the PL, I'd give you the goal & the 3 points retrospectively.
Trouble is as we know, they haven't got the gonads.
It's a nice idea, but can you imagine the utter fucking shitstorm it'd cause? Would you take the point away from Villa, who would argue they'd have gone about things differently if they were one down?

Would you leave the point for Villa, but give us 3? Literally half the league would complain - the five including your lot that are at risk of the drop, and the teams around us fighting for the European places - literally you, Watford, Brighton, Norwich and Bournemouth would have a shitfit. Karen Brady was already getting herself into trouble suggesting the league be cancelled to save you, so she'd certainly start flapping her face about this!

Even if you took the point away from Villa and gave us the win, that's at least 6 teams that would start having a hissy fit.

If it only affected where us and Villa finished, with no potential impact on European places, relegation etc. and it was simply for EPL prize money, might get away with it. But it drags (potentially) upto 10 teams PLUS us and Villa into a legal bunfight like you've never seen - Tevez affair included!
 
It's a nice idea, but can you imagine the utter fucking shitstorm it'd cause? Would you take the point away from Villa, who would argue they'd have gone about things differently if they were one down?
I would because imo, this is worse.
Tbh, I would have sorted it at half time with both managers.
It's just not right.
Feeling on kumb is that with your fans there (quite rightly) in uproar, would it have made a difference? Probably not, I guess.
 
Let's play a game if VAR logic in the real world. What rare and unique situations would the VAR team not intervene in?

Would VAR intervene if a Tiger managed to get free and into a hospital?
 
No one told us about the new rule introduced bt the Premier League

The ball has to be six foot over the goal line
 



...and there it was, crystallised in that moment, a post modern, nightmarish dystopian future becomes a present reality for the Premier League

The ball goes in and everyone with any proximity to the ball (ie everyone in the stadium) knows it's a goal. It's a yard over the line, clear cut. The referee doesn't confirm it wasn't and doesn't confirm it was. He can't . He is only human after all. Does he point to his eyes to demonstrate he just couldn't see it (a fair and honest response). No, he points to his bloody watch. His watch that represents the infallible, all powerful technology that cannot fail and cannot be overridden. Thank goodness for VAR that will be able to confirm something that SKY was able to unequivocally confirm for literally millions of viewers within 38 seconds - the ball was massively over the line. And here is the existential, post modern dilemma - the technology from Stockley Park has to prove that the technology on Oliver's wrist is wrong, its dysfunctional, inaccurate and needs correction. But technology can't be wrong and the people sat there operating it can't be complicit in proving that it was wrong or their very existence, as masters (now servants?) of the technology also comes into question. So truth, reality and fact are changed to conform with the very technology that was introduced to promote truth, reality and fact...and produce an untruth.

The debacle at Spurs was different - it was human error. Irritating but ultimately forgivable because of that. This was unforgivable. Shame on Oliver for ducking his responsibility as the man in charge, shame on the company that installed the system and forgot to switch it on ('you only had one job'), shame on the cowards and incompetents at Stockley Park. Maybe even shame on the Villa management who so passionately proclaimed 'fair play' when Bielsa told his Leeds team to right a wrong but have been so far so silent in this. Whatever, we move on a bit sadder and a bit wiser.

My 'puter says we now have 44 not 46 points, so it must be true
 
I would because imo, this is worse.
Tbh, I would have sorted it at half time with both managers.
It's just not right.
Feeling on kumb is that with your fans there (quite rightly) in uproar, would it have made a difference? Probably not, I guess.
It becomes an issue though, doesn't it? Villa would say that at one-down, they'd have been able to be more expansive in order to try to get at least a point from the game (which is a nonsense given they needed the win more) and can point to the fact that, truthfully, they were the team presenting more threat going forwards. And then if they go down by that one point, or even worse by one on goal difference, then the legal arguments would start.

Remember the last time a team got relegated on goal difference because of some dodgy decision about a technicality when the league didn't step in and attempt to deal with until it was far too late...? ;)

Yeah, the sensible thing would have been to get it sorted at half-time, award SUFC the goal, and it leaves Villa the entire 2nd half, which is basically what there was anyway. but there's no protocol for that as I understand it. The ref can't just say "Whoops..." and award the goal. From his vantage point he was relying on the VAR and GDS to tell him it was in. All he could have done was to have a word with Chrissy and Dean Smith, and try to get Villa to negotiate letting us walk one in. But if Villa had have said "fuck that" - which they almost certainly would have done - there's nowhere to go.

I mean, its not that i disagree with you. You're absolutely right in that there is something not right about it. Hand on heart - if this had happened to another team i'd be in the same place saying the same things about how unfair it is. Whether it was Norwich, Liverpool, Leeds, West Ham, or even Wednesday. The teams i take some bleak amusement in results going poorly for i don't want to get fucked over by the vagaries of technology or dodgy decisions - i want Wednesday to be going down because they're shite, for example.

The FA and the EPL, UEFA and FIFA and IFAB and all the rest harp on about how the flow of the game is most important, and they want to leave the decision with refs, and to respect the referee decisions and all the other bullshit they rolled out when they didn't want to implement VAR in the first place, but the number of incidents that started being highlighted as being "wrong" once TV coverage really started paying attention forced their hands. So then they implement a system where technology which is there to provide referee assistance is put in such a way that the referee isn't actually ALLOWED to "refer to VAR" - the VAR instead has set things that it sticks its nose into regardless of what the ref wants. No pitchside monitor option. and a GDS which, as it turns out, can be confused by there being a defender stood next to the keeper near a post - because THAT never ever happens in football, ever, right? And a set of ancient, hidebound rules and protocols that means the referee doesn't even have the option or opportunity to correct it once it is apparent the decision is incorrect.

Presumably the referees have been briefed to take heed of the GDS and VAR, especially when they don't have a clear view. And after 6 or 7 years of it, it's entirely reasonable that they would take it as read and not bother trying to make sure they get into a position to see it properly. Even if the liner had seen it, but the GDS system said "no goal", do you think the ref is going to believe the ref, or the magic technology?

The ONLY person i don't really blame for this, per se, is Michael Oliver. His hands really were tied as far as I understand it.
 
What will the VAR review?
  • Goal/no goal
  • Penalty/no penalty
  • Direct red card (not second yellow card/caution)
  • Mistaken identity (when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player)

VAR overturns (net score)

 
The failure to use VAR last night is analogous to the fuckwits who drive their cars over cliffs because the Sat Nav told them too. The oficials have become so reliant on the tech that they refuse to believe it's fallible.

Football seems determined to waste every opportunity to ingratiate itself by applying some common fucking sense every now and then.
 
What will the VAR review?
  • Goal/no goal
  • Penalty/no penalty
  • Direct red card (not second yellow card/caution)
  • Mistaken identity (when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player)

VAR overturns (net score)


We are competing with Wolves on the getting fucked over by VAR award.
 
What will the VAR review?
  • Goal/no goal
  • Penalty/no penalty
  • Direct red card (not second yellow card/caution)
  • Mistaken identity (when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player)

VAR overturns (net score)


It gets worse when you realise two of Brighton's seven overturns were against us (Egan/O'Connell goals), and one of Palace's was! (Red card rescinded)
 
What will the VAR review?
  • Goal/no goal
  • Penalty/no penalty
  • Direct red card (not second yellow card/caution)
  • Mistaken identity (when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player)

VAR overturns (net score)

Well all the pundits said we’d be bottom
 
It becomes an issue though, doesn't it? Villa would say that at one-down, they'd have been able to be more expansive in order to try to get at least a point from the game (which is a nonsense given they needed the win more) and can point to the fact that, truthfully, they were the team presenting more threat going forwards. And then if they go down by that one point, or even worse by one on goal difference, then the legal arguments would start.

Remember the last time a team got relegated on goal difference because of some dodgy decision about a technicality when the league didn't step in and attempt to deal with until it was far too late...? ;)

Yeah, the sensible thing would have been to get it sorted at half-time, award SUFC the goal, and it leaves Villa the entire 2nd half, which is basically what there was anyway. but there's no protocol for that as I understand it. The ref can't just say "Whoops..." and award the goal. From his vantage point he was relying on the VAR and GDS to tell him it was in. All he could have done was to have a word with Chrissy and Dean Smith, and try to get Villa to negotiate letting us walk one in. But if Villa had have said "fuck that" - which they almost certainly would have done - there's nowhere to go.

I mean, its not that i disagree with you. You're absolutely right in that there is something not right about it. Hand on heart - if this had happened to another team i'd be in the same place saying the same things about how unfair it is. Whether it was Norwich, Liverpool, Leeds, West Ham, or even Wednesday. The teams i take some bleak amusement in results going poorly for i don't want to get fucked over by the vagaries of technology or dodgy decisions - i want Wednesday to be going down because they're shite, for example.

The FA and the EPL, UEFA and FIFA and IFAB and all the rest harp on about how the flow of the game is most important, and they want to leave the decision with refs, and to respect the referee decisions and all the other bullshit they rolled out when they didn't want to implement VAR in the first place, but the number of incidents that started being highlighted as being "wrong" once TV coverage really started paying attention forced their hands. So then they implement a system where technology which is there to provide referee assistance is put in such a way that the referee isn't actually ALLOWED to "refer to VAR" - the VAR instead has set things that it sticks its nose into regardless of what the ref wants. No pitchside monitor option. and a GDS which, as it turns out, can be confused by there being a defender stood next to the keeper near a post - because THAT never ever happens in football, ever, right? And a set of ancient, hidebound rules and protocols that means the referee doesn't even have the option or opportunity to correct it once it is apparent the decision is incorrect.

Presumably the referees have been briefed to take heed of the GDS and VAR, especially when they don't have a clear view. And after 6 or 7 years of it, it's entirely reasonable that they would take it as read and not bother trying to make sure they get into a position to see it properly. Even if the liner had seen it, but the GDS system said "no goal", do you think the ref is going to believe the ref, or the magic technology?

The ONLY person i don't really blame for this, per se, is Michael Oliver. His hands really were tied as far as I understand it.

Doesn't VAR only "advise" and the refereee is free ( ha ha ha) to make the final decision ?

Whatever the Man United fan at Stockley Park said to Oliver should be revealed.
 
I thought it crossed the line Michael, it's a goal. Michael? Michael?

IMG_3746.JPG
 



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