Berge or Lunny v Brighton

[LoughboroBlade]

There used to be people that said Coutts was irreplaceable, and that any talk of getting someone to do his role was some sort of heresy. He was replaceable – his replacement was Norwood.

When Norwood’s given the time on the ball, he is fantastic. But even playing at his best, he’s not someone that can either side-step a challenge, or use strength to hold onto the ball when under pressure, and this has led to plenty of times this season (more so than last in my view) where he’s rushed into a pass or just simply dispossessed on the ball. It’s something Coutts at his best was better than him at, though for me that Norwood was clearly the better all round player. Basically an upgrade on Norwood would be someone that does most of his current stuff but has the physical strength to outmuscle opponents or quick feet to avoid them.

It is very unWilder thinking to not be considering how that might be improved upon, which is why you clearly saw it prioritised on recruitment discussions last November. He is fairly clear about always being hungry to improve everything we do. Stearman brought in to be the rock at the back? Sorry Stears, but we’re buying a better rock. Duffy crucial to promotion? No hard feelings Duffy, we’re getting rid of your position, and while we’re at it, you.

Whether it’s Berge (or someone else) that is being lined up by Wilder to ultimately replace Norwood it’s yet to be seen. I do think that you saw some of Berge’s calmness on the ball yesterday in avoiding being tackled, and you saw some of his passing to the flanks on show at Palace, and more so his tackling (which was less visible yesterday). The role he’s come from is certainly more Norwood’s than Lundstram’s. I don’t have any real desire to get Norwood out of the team, but if Wilder has a better option in mind then it will be completely understandable.

 

[Houston_Blade]

The kid is 21, he has presumably come from a fairly settled life in Belgium and moved into a hotel attached to a football ground in Sheffield. Give him a few weeks to get out into a place of his own and get some of his personal effects brought over and he might start feeling settled.

When most people move overseas they have a few weeks/months to think about it and sort stuff out. He's landed, signed, trained and played within his first few days then probably had a day or so to sort his personal life and trained all week then played again. This break will hopefully give him a few days to sort out what he needs to before going on a training camp with the team. In most other walks of life he'd be given a 2 or 3 week settling in period, he doesn't have that luxury given his price tag and expectation levels.

Integrate him into the system we play and he should turn out to be a good player for us for a few years to come.

 

[BushBlade]

There used to be people that said Coutts was irreplaceable, and that any talk of getting someone to do his role was some sort of heresy. He was replaceable – his replacement was Norwood.

When Norwood’s given the time on the ball, he is fantastic. But even playing at his best, he’s not someone that can either side-step a challenge, or use strength to hold onto the ball when under pressure, and this has led to plenty of times this season (more so than last in my view) where he’s rushed into a pass or just simply dispossessed on the ball. It’s something Coutts at his best was better than him at, though for me that Norwood was clearly the better all round player. Basically an upgrade on Norwood would be someone that does most of his current stuff but has the physical strength to outmuscle opponents or quick feet to avoid them.

It is very unWilder thinking to not be considering how that might be improved upon, which is why you clearly saw it prioritised on recruitment discussions last November. He is fairly clear about always being hungry to improve everything we do. Stearman brought in to be the rock at the back? Sorry Stears, but we’re buying a better rock. Duffy crucial to promotion? No hard feelings Duffy, we’re getting rid of your position, and while we’re at it, you.

Whether it’s Berge (or someone else) that is being lined up by Wilder to ultimately replace Norwood it’s yet to be seen. I do think that you saw some of Berge’s calmness on the ball yesterday in avoiding being tackled, and you saw some of his passing to the flanks on show at Palace, and more so his tackling (which was less visible yesterday). The role he’s come from is certainly more Norwood’s than Lundstram’s. I don’t have any real desire to get Norwood out of the team, but if Wilder has a better option in mind then it will be completely understandable.

The kid is 21, he has presumably come from a fairly settled life in Belgium and moved into a hotel attached to a football ground in Sheffield. Give him a few weeks to get out into a place of his own and get some of his personal effects brought over and he might start feeling settled.

When most people move overseas they have a few weeks/months to think about it and sort stuff out. He's landed, signed, trained and played within his first few days then probably had a day or so to sort his personal life and trained all week then played again. This break will hopefully give him a few days to sort out what he needs to before going on a training camp with the team. In most other walks of life he'd be given a 2 or 3 week settling in period, he doesn't have that luxury given his price tag and expectation levels.

Integrate him into the system we play and he should turn out to be a good player for us for a few years to come.

Good posts but do you ever feel like ‘this is a message board about football, should I really have to keep explaining the basics to people who really are old enough to know better’?

 

[Elkmooseloose]

What Berge says himself is that he is used to playing DM/CM, and controlling the play from the middle of the field, whereas now he is to play more on the right side and more upfront, also playing more box to box. That is for him something new, but as he says himself something he thinks will suit him very well when he gets used to his role. Also that role demands a lot more running back and forth than he is used to.

Before his move to Sheffield United I had hoped he ended up in the PL, as I thought he needed a bit more intensity in his game, and to make more use of his size and speed (he was actually clocked in as the fastest Genk player 2 yrs ago, so he can be quite fast although it does not look like that due to his size and running style. I think he will become a whole new player for you guys. He will benefit from Wilders coaching and the PL intensity.

He needs to get more involved in the final third, and he needs to get more used to shooting imo. Ball interceptions and dribbling he already excels at. Passing is also great usually. He was captain of Genk. At 21 yrs thats quite promising.

When he gets his feet planted and his confidence increases, knowing his role better, you will see a lot, lot better version of Berge than the one you have seen up until now.

But benching him from time to time will not hurt him. Propably would do the lad some good to have to fight a bit for the place in the team. It is obvious he will have to learn the role he has been given, AND up his fitness level before he can maximize his performances.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

What Berge says himself is that he is used to playing DM/CM, and controlling the play from the middle of the field, whereas now he is to play more on the right side and more upfront, also playing more box to box. That is for him something new, but as he says himself something he thinks will suit him very well when he gets used to his role. Also that role demands a lot more running back and forth than he is used to.

Before his move to Sheffield United I had hoped he ended up in the PL, as I thought he needed a bit more intensity in his game, and to make more use of his size and speed (he was actually clocked in as the fastest Genk player 2 yrs ago, so he can be quite fast although it does not look like that due to his size and running style. I think he will become a whole new player for you guys. He will benefit from Wilders coaching and the PL intensity.

He needs to get more involved in the final third, and he needs to get more used to shooting imo. Ball interceptions and dribbling he already excels at. Passing is also great usually. He was captain of Genk. At 21 yrs thats quite promising.

When he gets his feet planted and his confidence increases, knowing his role better, you will see a lot, lot better version of Berge than the one you have seen up until now.

But benching him from time to time will not hurt him. Propably would do the lad some good to have to fight a bit for the place in the team. It is obvious he will have to learn the role he has been given, AND up his fitness level before he can maximize his performances.

I think that’s encouraging to hear him say – he’s already aware of what he needs to work on. To be honest, I think his time from now till the end of the season is all about settling in and learning the team’s style and what’s needed. Wilder can then work on him more preseason ahead of Berge really making an impact next season.

 

[bramptonblade]

Start both. Drop Norwood (adjusts tin hat).

How very dare you !

 

[JohnDenver]

For all the talk of Berge’s long term role, if anyone dared ask Wilder I’m sure he’d give that withering look and explain midfielders need to be able to do all aspects of the role.

And the questioner would feel duly humbled.

 

[lakedistblade]

Scoring goals is one of our most significant issues and for me both times Lunny has come on there has been a step change improvement in how more penetrating our forward play has become. There is no room for rose tinted googles for our record signing when the prize of Europe is so close in these remaining games. Time to give a Lunny a start and bring on Sander for his development minutes when we are ahead and running the game. No harm in keeping him motivated to up his fitness and sharpness this way. All of this is predicated by recognising that by seeing them both in training Wilder knows best and I reckon he's earned my trust pretty comprehensively by now.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

For all the talk of Berge’s long term role, if anyone dared ask Wilder I’m sure he’d give that withering look and explain midfielders need to be able to do all aspects of the role.

I know just the Radio Sheffield presenter to be tasked with this...

 

[Tony Currie]

Wow, you're going massively over the top there. He made a glaring error for there goal but was much better after, strong in the tackle and the air and composed. One bit he took a reyt clattering off a couple of players but managed to retain ball and find a pass. Lunny scored the winner on the other hand so he will take the plaudits but he actually had some seriously crap touches/ wayward passes before that.

I would like to see both play together tbh, how that can happen and what formation it would involve I ain't got a scooby do.

This - Berge made one mistake, Lunny made several before his goal. As Wilder has alluded too in the past if you bring in competition it ups the performance of the player in the existing position.

May the best man win. For me Berge looks the real deal.

 

[Freethinker]

You tell me was he good ?
Shit ?
Shows promise ?
Because you appeared to say he looks like a 2 million pound player and then backtracked

So lets hear it

Oh dear do we have to

 

[ucandomagic]

Watching Berge reminds me of watching Tony Currie.

I agree, he sort of sets off and leaves a leg behind and then drags the ball with that trailing leg. It’s brilliant because the first action often causes the defender to react, and then the drag can be in the other direction.

 

[dc_blade]

For all the talk of Berge’s long term role, if anyone dared ask Wilder I’m sure he’d give that withering look and explain midfielders need to be able to do all aspects of the role.

And the questioner would feel duly humbled.

But do you think that attitude has been reflected in our play since he took over? I don't.

 

[benn5712]

Berge got into some goal scoring positions in the box, passes to him weren't made.

 

[sufcboy95]

Give the lad time. Berge coming to a totally different league playing in a team that plays 100mph.
He’ll be Norwoods replacement long term, as the cdm role is much more suited to him

 

[JohnDenver]

But do you think that attitude has been reflected in our play since he took over? I don't.

Sort of. In terms of tactics, we’re drilled to very specific midfield roles. But within those roles everyone still has to defend and attack when appropriate, even it’s a less regular part of their duties.

If Norwood never put in crosses, or Lunny never bothered getting back goal-side after a break, then I’d agree. But Wilder demands they do these things.

 

[dc_blade]

Sort of. In terms of tactics, we’re drilled to very specific midfield roles. But within those roles everyone still has to defend and attack when appropriate, even it’s a less regular part of their duties.

If Norwood never put in crosses, or Lunny never bothered getting back goal-side after a break, then I’d agree. But Wilder demands they do these things.

Everyone who plays in midfield is required to do the basic things required of a midfielder, yes. But beyond that, we've built quite distinct roles for each player based on the skills he brings to the table. Fleck and Coutts had distinct roles, as did Fleck and Norwood. I'd argue it's even more distinct now that we play a midfield three.

You're probably right that Wilder would answer the question in that way! I just think it's a bit of a bluff on his part.

 

[Bladesman]

It’s absolute madness to consider that we might upgrade on Norwood next season, which is why we should all section Wilder immediately given that he was drawing up plans to do so as early as last November.

View attachment 71165

Wilder much like myself when playing FIFA20 wants at least two quality players for each position on the pitch.

 

[S40BLADE]

Norwood over the last few weeks has regressed, yesterday he only passed backwards. Maybe that's his role and if so, I accept it, but I would play Berge in the centre of the midfield, he looks to have a lot of time on the ball and not sure having a touchline by his side helps him.

Norwood made 59 passes yesterday 33 of which forward and at palace made 44 forward out of 60 while only losing possession once across both fixtures (Courtesy of whoscored). Check the stats before you start spewing.

 

[BushBlade]

Hi, I am new here and I am not going to post much, but maybe post some Norwegian news about Berge etc. I do not yet have an english team I support but I follow Norwegian players closely. Here is a news article from Norway after the Bournemouth match on Sunday, with an interview with Berge (you will have to google translate it though) :

https://www.tv2.no/sport/11201535/

Also I have to mention, your club seems like something very special and fresh I hope you get to Europe, and I really do think Berge will be a hit, but he will need some time adjusting, not easy upgrading to the PL during January

I do not yet have an english team I support

I think you’ll have one soon.

 

[Worksop II]

Wilder is having his cake and eating it .....

Getting Berge game time, letting Lunny have a run out, (and being effective), and winning the games

Easy that management lark

Same again next time

 

[Bergen Blade]

Berge got into some goal scoring positions in the box, passes to him weren't made.

Mentioned earlier about his running, here's a screenshot of those stats:

 

[Bergen Blade]

Berge got into some goal scoring positions in the box, passes to him weren't made.

Three situations where he got into good positions in the box and could have been set up for close range finishes:

 

[VwBlade]

Mentioned earlier about his running, here's a screenshot of those stats:

View attachment 71219

Snittfart

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Mentioned earlier about his running, here's a screenshot of those stats:

View attachment 71219

That’s good in terms of effort. Similar to your point on Berge not being found in the box, I mentioned that I thought we visibly looked reluctant to get the ball to his feet, and while he was on I thought the rest of the team looked generally happier to stick to getting the ball down the left, particularly first half. He had 35 touches in the game, about once just under every two minutes. That’s marginally higher than the rate for Lundstram when he was on, though a little less than Fleck’s. Our right sided players (Baldock, Basham, Berge, Lundstram) combined had 174 touches yesterday across the whole game, left side (Stevens, JOC, Fleck) had 248.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Because thats where hes played his entire career.

Why sign a 20M player and play him in a different position square pegs come to mind

Now we know better than Wilder.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Because thats where hes played his entire career.

Why sign a 20M player and play him in a different position square pegs come to mind

Heard he's in goal next week.

Seriously if you don't trust Wilder by now give it up.

 

[Sheff de party]

Besic.

 

[Sparky]

For me Berge did enough at Palace and in the Bournemouth game to warrant doing the same again. He wasn’t perfect but let’s face it who is and Lunny certainly made a few mistakes when he came on. Great to have two such good options though!

 

[Niceguyeddie]

That’s good in terms of effort. Similar to your point on Berge not being found in the box, I mentioned that I thought we visibly looked reluctant to get the ball to his feet, and while he was on I thought the rest of the team looked generally happier to stick to getting the ball down the left, particularly first half. He had 35 touches in the game, about once just under every two minutes. That’s marginally higher than the rate for Lundstram when he was on, though a little less than Fleck’s. Our right sided players (Baldock, Basham, Berge, Lundstram) combined had 174 touches yesterday across the whole game, left side (Stevens, JOC, Fleck) had 248.

Which is interesting as I thought berge played a lot better than fleck who had his worst game this season