23/04/10 - Reaction to Birch & McCabe Q&A

[LouTheBlade]

Bobby, all the evidence suggests - even with the comedy duo not knowing (or pretending not to know) - that the transfer of the million pound a goal man is as described by yours truly.
Despite the equally comic efforts of Seth B to find some justification for punting the ridiculous £750,000 line all season.
I still think the 'we haven't a clue' response to the Kyle Walker question was the funniest bit though.

Whats funny about it? They said truthfully that Spurs asked for the player back without a moments notice and that we were powerless to help it. Spurs didnt justify their actions regarding that or the failure to fulfill our special agreement, nor are they obligated to. If Spurs havent communicated the reasons with them what do you want them to say???

I think you're just looking for a fall-guy/scapegoat to be honest. I'm over it all to be honest, the season is finished - roll on august.

 

[Micalijo]

I'm sorry Mic but that's the most simplistic perception of our situation ive ever heard. Let me just make one thing clear before I go any further - I am not pro-Blackwell but I am not anti-Blackwell either. I feel he could and should have done better this season and so should the players. I do however recognise that this season has been riddled with complications that have swelled our inadequacies and as a consequence have shown up the fundamental errors that have been made.

It is very easy to say Blackwell should be doing this and that with the players. Its easy to say he should be improving what he has. Have you ever stopped to consider that of his current squad, half of the players he has might be utter pap?! Many of them might be playing to their full potential and I suspect quite a few of them are. You cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear! I am not defending the manager because I myself, am totally unconvinced by him. But what I am saying is our failings arent all down to one person because the players, coaches and board all have to take some responsibility. Largely I think they have.

I dont see any contradiction between the manager and board. All I see is a manager that isnt aware of what he's going to have available yet.....purely because KM and TB have not decided on a budget at this time. It couldnt be much clearer to me and I accept it. Why is everyone moaning?!

Yes, I have considerd that the currents squad is utter 'pap' as you say - I consider it every time I watch it. Blackwell has now signed the vast majority of em and they are extremely poor.

Yet, if you speak to him he will say he hasn't been able to sign the right players because we get outbid etc. Well tough luck, bid for players we have a realistic chance of getting. If Blackwell has to work to improve them then again tough, it's his job. Instead I think he chooses to criticise too much and genuinely bully them - he then back-tracks with his 'wonderful set of lads, salt of the earth, run through a brickwall for me' routine.

So when McCabe says Evans cost £3m - biggest signing in CCC last summer etc and Blackwell says he is a development player you don't see a contradiction? You don't see a contradiction between McCabe telling us about a £14m wage bill and Blackwell forever moaning that 'this is all I could get?' £14m ffs!! Blackwell wants it all on a plate and only very late last season when Walker came through did he get it right. Even you could have got results with the squads KB has had in his first 18 months.

 

[Micalijo]

Whats funny about it? They said truthfully that Spurs asked for the player back without a moments notice and that we were powerless to help it. Spurs didnt justify their actions regarding that or the failure to fulfill our special agreement, nor are they obligated to. If Spurs havent communicated the reasons with them what do you want them to say???

I think you're just looking for a fall-guy/scapegoat to be honest. I'm over it all to be honest, the season is finished - roll on august.

For one very happy split second I thought you were announcing another sabbatical there.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Bobby, all the evidence suggests - even with the comedy duo not knowing (or pretending not to know) - that the transfer of the million pound a goal man is as described by yours truly.
Despite the equally comic efforts of Seth B to find some justification for punting the ridiculous £750,000 line all season.
I still think the 'we haven't a clue' response to the Kyle Walker question was the funniest bit though.

So in short, you are sticking to the fact that he cost £3 Million upfront. Fair enough I'll leave you to watch the embedded clip again.

 

[LouTheBlade]

Yes, I have considerd that the currents squad is utter 'pap' as you say - I consider it every time I watch it. Blackwell has now signed the vast majority of em and they are extremely poor.

Yet, if you speak to him he will say he hasn't been able to sign the right players because we get outbid etc. Well tough luck, bid for players we have a realistic chance of getting. If Blackwell has to work to improve them then again tough, it's his job. Instead I think he chooses to criticise too much and genuinely bully them - he then back-tracks with his 'wonderful set of lads, salt of the earth, run through a brickwall for me' routine.

So when McCabe says Evans cost £3m - biggest signing in CCC last summer etc and Blackwell says he is a development player you don't see a contradiction? You don't see a contradiction between McCabe telling us about a £14m wage bill and Blackwell forever moaning that 'this is all I could get?' £14m ffs!! Blackwell wants it all on a plate and only very late last season when Walker came through did he get it right. Even you could have got results with the squads KB has had.

The entire squad isnt though. Do you consider Paddy, Cresswell, Ward, Morgan, Williamson, Camara, Harper etc. to be utter pap? I dont thats for sure. A bulk of his other players would appear to be very ordinary but the core is good. Sadly if you look at the above mentioned players, the majority of them have been injured for much of the season and have rarely played together. I dont accept that as a totally justifying excuse, but it is a mitigating factor and anyone with common sense can recognise that.

He has bid for the players we had a realistic chance of getting. We got most of them, some havent settled in yet and others simply arent good enough (one or two probably never will be). What more is there to say, he got those wrong. Just like Warnock got Barry Hayles and Danny Cullip wrong. Just like Robson got David Carney and Lee Hendrie wrong. So what?! A few bad transfers under forced circumstances make him a bad manager?! Very one dimensional view IMO and in some parts unfair.

I would love to know what these incidents of bullying were of his players. KB couldnt bully someone as long as he has a whole in his arse. He is one of the most mild mannered and gentle managers I have come across. If he tried to bully me I would laugh at him and give him a pat on the back for having a sense of humour. If the players can be bullied by someone like that then they havent the courage to play a contact sport. I'm sorry but thats bollocks!

So Ched's transfer fee dictates whether he is classed as a development player or not??? When has KM or TB said he isnt a development player? Clutching at straws a little there I think. We and many other people are just supporters and we are on the periphery of the club. We see very little of what goes off day to day and for that reason I refuse to make assumptions about these issues. That is what you are doing in these instances.

 

[LouTheBlade]

For one very happy split second I thought you were announcing another sabbatical there.

For one very happy split second I thought you were saying something positive and constructive there. Sarcy comments roll off my back like water to a duck. Try it on someone else pal

 

[Micalijo]

The entire squad isnt though. Do you consider Paddy, Cresswell, Ward, Morgan, Williamson, Camara, Harper etc. to be utter pap? I dont thats for sure. A bulk of his other players would appear to be very ordinary but the core is good. Sadly if you look at the above mentioned players, the majority of them have been injured for much of the season and have rarely played together. I dont accept that as a totally justifying excuse, but it is a mitigating factor and anyone with common sense can recognise that.

He has bid for the players we had a realistic chance of getting. We got most of them, some havent settled in yet and others simply arent good enough (one or two probably never will be). What more is there to say, he got those wrong. Just like Warnock got Barry Hayles and Danny Cullip wrong. Just like Robson got David Carney and Lee Hendrie wrong. So what?! A few bad transfers under forced circumstances make him a bad manager?! Very one dimensional view IMO and in some parts unfair.

I would love to know what these incidents of bullying were of his players. KB couldnt bully someone as long as he has a whole in his arse. He is one of the most mild mannered and gentle managers I have come across. If he tried to bully me I would laugh at him and give him a pat on the back for having a sense of humour. If the players can be bullied by someone like that then they havent the courage to play a contact sport. I'm sorry but thats bollocks!

So Ched's transfer fee dictates whether he is classed as a development player or not??? When has KM or TB said he isnt a development player? Clutching at straws a little there I think. We and many other people are just supporters and we are on the periphery of the club. We see very little of what goes off day to day and for that reason I refuse to make assumptions about these issues. That is what you are doing in these instances.

Regarding the bullying I'm referring more to the ridiculous bawling sessions he used to have at Cotterill and plenty of others during the match. It does not work. I know some players need a rocket but for me KB gets it wrong time and time again in the way he conducts himself on matchdays and with the press, especially the latter, when talking about players. You think Cotterill should have gone up to KB mid-match and pat him on the back? You sasy mild mannered and gentle - I say false, fake, arrogant, obnoxious and out of his depth. He's no doubt somewhere in the middle.

I think it's pretty obvious that when McCabe bullishly mentioned the £3m last week (again) he didn't at the time of signing him, view him as a development player - irrespective of his age.

 

[Foxy]

Bobby, all the evidence suggests - even with the comedy duo not knowing (or pretending not to know) - that the transfer of the million pound a goal man is as described by yours truly.

Well it isn't, it's somewhere in between the two

Not that I'm all that sure why it matters, McCabe's view was that he will most certainly be costing us the full amount, as the portion made up of appearances "well, you don't spend that much on a player to not play him". The hope is that young Chedwyn lives up to his percieved potential, which those in the business seem to disagree with you on somewhat.

I still think the 'we haven't a clue' response to the Kyle Walker question was the funniest bit though.

It's always worrying to hear "I honestly don't have a clue", but he was meaning more why he was recalled when saying this. As to any agreement, he said he was unaware of any gentlemans agreement regarding further loanees and simply that Tottenham had certainly not acted in a way that would match a "special relationship".

 

[LouTheBlade]

Regarding the bullying I'm referring more to the ridiculous bawling sessions he used to have at Cotterill and plenty of others during the match. It does not work. I know some players need a rocket but for me KB gets it wrong time and time again in the way he conducts himself on matchdays and with the press, especially the latter, when talking about players. You think Cotterill should have gone up to KB mid-match and pat him on the back? You sasy mild mannered and gentle - I say false, fake, arrogant, obnoxious and out of his depth. He's no doubt somewhere in the middle.

I think it's pretty obvious that when McCabe bullishly mentioned the £3m last week (again) he didn't at the time of signing him, view him as a development player - irrespective of his age.

At the end of the day every manager has his own style. Yes some players need a rocket, others need a pat on the back. I personally have never understood players that shirk and go into their shell when the manager berates them, but that's possibly because I am one of those players who responds well to it. Ive seldom had a placid manager and on the rare occasion I get that sort of stick I think fuck him, I'm going to prove him wrong. In the professional game players should be strong enough to deal with that and if they shirk confrontation with the likes of Kevin Blackwell then they will never get on in the game because there are a lot of managers bigger and nastier than him.

My suggestion about a pat on the back was a figure of speech Mic to explain how I would receive that sort of criticism, from that sort of person. If it bothers Cotterill that much then he's better off at a namby-pamby club with a manager that will tell him how wonderful he is. Its a man's game, its not for little fairies that cry when they get shouted at!

It doesnt matter what McCabe views Ched as. KB wanted the player and his chairman sanctioned it. KM isnt the manager.

 

[lenners]

So in short, you are sticking to the fact that he cost £3 Million upfront. Fair enough I'll leave you to watch the embedded clip again.

I'm sticking to the evidence Bobby.
So far he'll have cost us £3m, including wages, with much more to come - unless we can get him off our books.
A disastrous signing in the context of a club needing to get down to a £6m wage bill next season.
It is funny watching him though.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Last word freak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY&feature=player_embedded

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I would love to know what these incidents of bullying were of his players. KB couldnt bully someone as long as he has a whole in his arse. He is one of the most mild mannered and gentle managers I have come across. If he tried to bully me I would laugh at him and give him a pat on the back for having a sense of humour. If the players can be bullied by someone like that then they havent the courage to play a contact sport. I'm sorry but thats bollocks!

Mild mannered and gentle managers I have come across. Come across in what regard, have you played for him Lou? How about have you seen him on the training ground?

If he is so mild mannered why did the captain have a word with him about the treatment of a young member of the squad?

I'll put the same question to you that I did to BM1889, can you name me one member of the academy who actually has a good word to say about him? You don't need to post it on the site you can PM me.
I would wager that you would seriously struggle to find a single one. This is supposedly the area where he should have great links and contacts because they are bringing through the next generation of players for us.

 

[shorehamview]

Shoreham son, the questions were asked, the answers were given.
No amount of wiggling from you or anyone else is going to make any difference to the waffle, obfuscation, pretence and inaccuracies put forward by the Kev and Trev double act.
Don't blame the messenger kiddo.

I asked you a question. You seem to have grasped the ideas of "wind-up" and "spout shit" quite well, it's just a shame that "yes" or "no" seem to be words you do not understand. Did you go to the meeting? I reckon that because you have constantly refused to answer then you did not go. So you've got the balls to call McCabe all sorts of liar behind your computer, but not got the sand to actually attend the meeting and ask him directly.

And please don't call me son, or kiddo. I'm not your son, you are not my father, you don't even have the faintest idea of my age, and frankly it's not even a very good attempt at patronising me, so try and answer the question please. If you've not got the bottle to actually go to put your questions to McCabe or Birch then there's no point in you whining like the mardy fucker you constantly come across as.

Messenger? I've had better messages from the crows splattered across my car windscreen. I haven't wiggled one way or the other. I just wondered if you were the sort of person who would actually go to a meeting such as this, or the spineless sort who would rather stay at home and believe their own pathetic hype.

 

[lenners]

I asked you a question. You seem to have grasped the ideas of "wind-up" and "spout shit" quite well, it's just a shame that "yes" or "no" seem to be words you do not understand. Did you go to the meeting? I reckon that because you have constantly refused to answer then you did not go. So you've got the balls to call McCabe all sorts of liar behind your computer, but not got the sand to actually attend the meeting and ask him directly.

And please don't call me son, or kiddo. I'm not your son, you are not my father, you don't even have the faintest idea of my age, and frankly it's not even a very good attempt at patronising me, so try and answer the question please. If you've not got the bottle to actually go to put your questions to McCabe or Birch then there's no point in you whining like the mardy fucker you constantly come across as.

Messenger? I've had better messages from the crows splattered across my car windscreen. I haven't wiggled one way or the other. I just wondered if you were the sort of person who would actually go to a meeting such as this, or the spineless sort who would rather stay at home and believe their own pathetic hype.

Shoreham,
Chill out son.
I haven't called McCabe all sorts of liar - I've simply pointed out the inconsistencies and pointlessness of the forums.
Your anger is testament to my being spot on.
There was nothing in those forums that gave anyone any sense of direction whatsoever.

 

[shorehamview]

Shoreham,
Chill out son.
I haven't called McCabe all sorts of liar - I've simply pointed out the inconsistencies and pointlessness of the forums.
Your anger is testament to my being spot on.
There was nothing in those forums that gave anyone any sense of direction whatsoever.

Lenners.
I'm chill, so stop being so fucking patronising. I'm not your son, unless you know something I don't.
I just want to know did you go, and if not, why? You can't even answer that question. You should be a politician. They can't give a simple answer to a question either. Do you even go to matches? Or are you as clueless about where the ground actually is too? I'm not angry, I'd just like to know. If I was angry I'd have called you every sort of arsehole going. I haven't.

And as far as you being spot on, well, let's just say that even a fucked watch is right twice a day. You wouldn't rely on it at all though, would you?

 

[lenners]

Lenners.
I'm chill, so stop being so fucking patronising. I'm not your son, unless you know something I don't.
I just want to know did you go, and if not, why? You can't even answer that question. You should be a politician. They can't give a simple answer to a question either. Do you even go to matches? Or are you as clueless about where the ground actually is too? I'm not angry, I'd just like to know. If I was angry I'd have called you every sort of arsehole going. I haven't.

And as far as you being spot on, well, let's just say that even a fucked watch is right twice a day. You wouldn't rely on it at all though, would you?

You sound very angry for someone who's not angry.
My watch is very accurate when it comes to SUFC.

 

[judge]

You sound very angry for someone who's not angry.
My watch is very accurate when it comes to SUFC.

just answer his question ,did you go or not ?

 

[shorehamview]

You sound very angry for someone who's not angry.
My watch is very accurate when it comes to SUFC.

I'm going into parent mode now.

I'm not angry.

I'm just very disappointed.

And how accurate is your watch?
If Mickey's big hand is pointing straight up then that means it's Something O'Clock.

 

[Ollessendro]

Ignoring the petty squabbles, I'll give my two penneth. I was neither shocked or surprised by the Q&A session. I expected McCabe to come out and state he was a Blade, tell the truth, admit he'd made some mistakes, back Blackwell etc and he did just that. I thought they squirmed a little at one or two questions and avoided a few questions (politician style) but overall gave a good account of themselves.

I don't have any doubt about McCabe's commitment to United. He is a shrewd business man and 100% Blade. He has been a very good chairman so far and I'm happy for him to continue. I don't know much about Birch, but it makes sense for McCabe to bring in someone he trusts to run the day to day aspects of the club. I wrote to Birch recently expressing my concerns about the current situation and he personally responded very quickly. he was warm and respectful.

I have a few qualms with McCabe, but overall i like and repsect him and nights/days like Friday and Saturday only confirm that more for me. I thought he came across as an inspirational leader. People have been calling for the board to communicate more with fans and now that that has happened people are finding something else to complain about. Some will never be happy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not getting carried away. Hard times are ahead. I'm a bit upset that KM is (or appears to be) beacking Blackwell when he clearly isn't taking us anywhere. However I think that McCabe has done wonders for the club and have faith he is still the right person to be running the club. It was good of him to come out and do the Q&A session (as he didn't have to). I thought that he and Birch were honest and straight up, but i expected them to be so.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I thought if one thing came out of the meeting it was a lack of backing the manager received.
The manager is under contract and if he was staying why not just clear it up "of course KB will be here next season he is under contract for another 2 years" would be the reply I would expect.
Instead we got quite a few criticisms and finally after been pushed we got "I hope he is here next year" from McCabe, nothing about in what capacity and nothing from Birch who is actually in charge of day to day matters.

 

[lenners]

Ignoring the petty squabbles, I'll give my two penneth. I was neither shocked or surprised by the Q&A session. I expected McCabe to come out and state he was a Blade, tell the truth, admit he'd made some mistakes, back Blackwell etc and he did just that. I thought they squirmed a little at one or two questions and avoided a few questions (politician style) but overall gave a good account of themselves.

I don't have any doubt about McCabe's commitment to United. He is a shrewd business man and 100% Blade. He has been a very good chairman so far and I'm happy for him to continue. I don't know much about Birch, but it makes sense for McCabe to bring in someone he trusts to run the day to day aspects of the club. I wrote to Birch recently expressing my concerns about the current situation and he personally responded very quickly. he was warm and respectful.

I have a few qualms with McCabe, but overall i like and repsect him and nights/days like Friday and Saturday only confirm that more for me. I thought he came across as an inspirational leader. People have been calling for the board to communicate more with fans and now that that has happened people are finding something else to complain about. Some will never be happy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not getting carried away. Hard times are ahead. I'm a bit upset that KM is (or appears to be) beacking Blackwell when he clearly isn't taking us anywhere. However I think that McCabe has done wonders for the club and have faith he is still the right person to be running the club. It was good of him to come out and do the Q&A session (as he didn't have to). I thought that he and Birch were honest and straight up, but i expected them to be so.

Gone on then, what did he say that would make anyone renew their season ticket that hasn't done so?

 

[LouTheBlade]

Mild mannered and gentle managers I have come across. Come across in what regard, have you played for him Lou? How about have you seen him on the training ground?

If he is so mild mannered why did the captain have a word with him about the treatment of a young member of the squad?

I'll put the same question to you that I did to BM1889, can you name me one member of the academy who actually has a good word to say about him? You don't need to post it on the site you can PM me.
I would wager that you would seriously struggle to find a single one. This is supposedly the area where he should have great links and contacts because they are bringing through the next generation of players for us.

Bob, as ive said before I enjoy reading some of your posts and you occasionally offer some good insight.....however.....

I do sometimes get the feeling that you let on more than you actually know about what is going on inside the club. I find some of the theories about the manager and his relationship with senior/academy players a little questionable. I have two or three friends at the club and I'm not for a minute suggesting I have more insider knowledge than you (I probably don't), but without naming them they are in a very good position to know what goes off and they've never mentioned any of this.

The body language of players towards KB also doesnt suggest that there is any truth in these theories. I have seen him on the training ground a couple of times yes. It might just have been a one off on each occasion but everything looked fairly run of the mill and light-hearted to me. As I said though, they were two occasions only.

I am genuinely not suggesting that you are fabricated things or planting ideas in people's heads, however - my gut feeling is that you have some insider knowledge of one or two 'fall-outs' / 'bust-ups' and what actually happened has been swelled and exaggerated into this player eating monster now known as KB. I have met the man and I have looked him in the eye and he hasnt got a bully in him. I certainly havent played for him but I could introduce you to a couple of my managers and I can show you what a bullish manager really looks and sounds like.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Bob, as ive said before I enjoy reading some of your posts and you occasionally offer some good insight.....however.....
.

Don't blow smoke up my arse Lou, as I said right at the beginning you either believe it or not, it truly is no skin off my nose.
Its not something I need to overly worry about because it would seem that Birch and McCabe are aware of it even acknowledged the issues with the academy and Blackwell.

I've said repeatedly that I don't pretend to be ITK, I just get told things from good sources in the club from time to time that seem to end up being about right.
Some I post, others I don't, believe them or file them under bullshit it doesn't really make much difference but personally I don't post stuff that I don't believe to be true.

You want to believe that Blackie is this great guy who is generally liked throughout the club, I would disagree with that.
Between him and Ellis I don't think there is much love for them amongst the playing staff nor the academy.

 

[LouTheBlade]

You want to believe that Blackie is this great guy who is generally liked throughout the club, I would disagree with that.
Between him and Ellis I don't think there is much love for them amongst the playing staff nor the academy.

I don't want to believe anything. Ive said it countless times, I have my doubts about the manager - I'm not what you would call a fan of KB. I genuinely couldnt give a toss if he has upset certain players. If you want my honest opinion on things like that I think the agressor should simply lighten up and the person on the receiving end shouldnt be such a big girls blouse!

Whether this information is true or not, the fact is our failings this season have been down to a combination of injuries, tactical mistakes and poor moves in the transfer market. I don't think anyone can argue with that. If there really is bickering and unrest (for arguments sake) then those involved should just grow up and be professional. It shouldnt be a talking point on the forum because frankly I dont see how an eventuality so infantile in its nature would be considered a factor in our failure to reach the top 6.

I accept that you will have heard things, seen things and that like everyone else on here you are entitled to pass on information you believe to be true. I will agree to disagree and standy by my view that it is very questionable, as I'm sure you'll stand by your argument.

My final statement on the issue (really this time) is that I am putting this season behind me as everyone should and looking forward to next season with more optimism and hope. Those who dont want to do the same have their choice, they dont have to buy a ST! I haven't bought mine yet, haven't decided - might even get it next week. But I see little point in highlighting failure after failure and spreading rumours when the directors want the manager to stay and at least half of the supporters do. I'm not justfying it, but its definately the case. The Blackwell bashers are a minority, not a small minority by any means but still a minority.