23/04/10 - Reaction to Birch & McCabe Q&A

[DuncDisorderly]

I'm quite pleased with the general gist from the Q&A, far from Mic and Len. But I seem equally as far from your standpoint which if you didn't seem so astute generally, comes off as gullible in the extreme.

UTB

Gullible because I dont have a conspiracy theory..?

 

[DuncDisorderly]

Another one who needs to look in the accounts.

I have no time for you Len. I stopped playing when I saw right through you...

 

[lenners]

Gullible because I dont have a conspiracy theory..?

Your gullible because you choose to ignore what we already know about our club's finances.
Actually, it's not even gullible, is it.

 

[lenners]

I have no time for you Len. I stopped playing when I saw right through you...

You don't have to have time for me in your eternal sunshine universe.
I do suggest you do yourself a favour though and stop making yourself look a real plank and have a look in the accounts.

 

[DuncDisorderly]

You don't have to have time for me in your eternal sunshine universe.
I do suggest you do yourself a favour though and stop making yourself look a real plank and have a look in the accounts.

I skimmed them again today Len to check a few points before posting...

 

[DuncDisorderly]

what makes you think the interest won't eventually be paid - at the expense of team building?

It could be, but my opinion is that Kevin McCabe intention is that he will not do that. Circumstances change and what happens is sometimes not what was forseen, but as of today, I dont think that is what he is planning.

 

[lenners]

I skimmed them again today Len to check a few points before posting...

Just goes to show you sometimes need to pay a bit more attention to detail.
I don't want to get into a slanging match with you but FFS that was complete and utter drivel from Kev and Trev. From the moment they couldn't agree between themselves/didn't know how much the magnificent Ched had cost, you just knew they had turned up with the aim of flanneling.
There was a vacuum of genuine leadership on display. This league is up for grabs for anyone next season and we may even have the added bonus of our nearest (commercial as well as footballing) rivals being in the 3rd division.
This is the time for someone to take the club by the scruff of the neck and seize the opportunity.
You can bet someone like Leeds won't ferk about if they get up and see what (doesn't) confront them next season.

 

[alcoblade]

Gullible because I dont have a conspiracy theory..?

Not at all. Can you clarify from these scenarios;

1) McCabe lends the club £50M. In 5 years time he takes £50M from the club.
2) McCabe lends the club £50M. In 5 years time he takes £70M from the club.

Are you seriously suggesting there's no difference to us as supporters betweem 1 and 2, because he owns the club?

UTB

 

[Trigger Blade]

Shorehamview,

On behalf of Fleety and myself and anybody who's tried to conduct a sensible debate with lenners over the years, I thank you for your efforts and the same goes to anybody else engaged in the messageboard equivalent of getting the toothpaste back in the tube.

Lenners didn't go, he didn't ask a question. He went to the AGM, but he didn't ask a question there either, that's not his style. He surpassed himself by passing judgement on the Q&As before he'd even listened.

I like him, I'd buy him a pint anytime, as long as we didn't have to talk about SUFC, he'd have me queuing for a season ticket at H*llsborough in no time at all.

 

[lenners]

Shorehamview,

On behalf of Fleety and myself and anybody who's tried to conduct a sensible debate with lenners over the years, I thank you for your efforts and the same goes to anybody else engaged in the messageboard equivalent of getting the toothpaste back in the tube.

Lenners didn't go, he didn't ask a question. He went to the AGM, but he didn't ask a question there either, that's not his style. He surpassed himself by passing judgement on the Q&As before he'd even listened.

I like him, I'd buy him a pint anytime, as long as we didn't have to talk about SUFC, he'd have me queuing for a season ticket at H*llsborough in no time at all.

Unfortunately Lenners tends to call it right.
The outcome of the forums just being the latest correct call.
Pointless. No point in asking Kev and Trev questions if they aren't going to answer them.
You tell me how we're any the wiser after either of those forums.
In all likelihood we'll have to wait until the next accounts to get any more straight information out of the club.
And I wouldn't equate that uncomfortable feeling you know I'm right with my being unable to sensibly debate.

 

[LouTheBlade]

After what appeared to be very frank and honest answers from McCabe and Birch IMO.....some of you still aren't satisfied. I am now completely convinced that some of our "supporters" (term used loosely) just attend/associate themselves with the club, simply to have something to moan about. I have had my criticisms of the manager and of the board this season due to lack of communication and assumptions I have had to make because of it; but after hearing their answers to some very cutting questions I am happy that KM and TB are trying to run the club properly with tempered ambition, which is what I want to see.

Judging from some of the comments on here it appears that certain individuals dont even listen to or read the feedback. I don't know how the two gentlemen could be more forthright and honest if they tried. They have revealed much, much more than I thought they would be prepared to and they have done it for the benefit of the fans. KM has also been very assuring of the money he has invested in the club which is pleasing. I genuinely dont know what some of you want but I suggest if it upsets you so much, dont bother coming to games and dont concern yourself with these issues because nothing other than a fairytale future with a sugar-daddy takeover will please you!!!!! I doubt even then you would stop whinging.

:thumbup: Big thumbs up to KM and TB for answering those questions. Lets hope next season can be a better one. Lets accept that mistakes have been made this time around and get on with it. They will make the decisions whether we agree with them or not. We just have to hope they get them right.

UTB

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Unfortunately Lenners tends to call it right.
The outcome of the forums just being the latest correct call.
Pointless. No point in asking Kev and Trev questions if they aren't going to answer them.
You tell me how we're any the wiser after either of those forums.
In all likelihood we'll have to wait until the next accounts to get any more straight information out of the club.
And I wouldn't equate that uncomfortable feeling you know I'm right with my being unable to sensibly debate.

We know Ched didn't cost £3 Million upfront, which is what you called. <yawn>

 

[Worksop II]

Lets accept that mistakes have been made this time

UTB

I had to smile at McCabe when he outlined the failure of "short term loans" as being part of this seasons failure

We did finish the previous season with two short term loans up front at Wembley

We will see the same next year

 

[LouTheBlade]

I had to smile at McCabe when he outlined the failure of "short term loans" as being part of this seasons failure

We did finish the previous season with two short term loans up front at Wembley

We will see the same next year

We might well do Worksop and that is a very good point you made. Shame no one threw that one back at him in the forum to see what his reaction would have been.

I just think that at the end of the day, for all we mump and moan, TB and KM will make the decisions (KB also) and that it is pointless everyone getting their knickers in a twist over it. We have to trust someone to deal with the day to day running of the club and I can think of much worse people than these two fellas, who from past experiences in business seem to know what they're on about. From listening to these two it would appear that they are unhappy with the amount of money they have had to spend this season and more specifically WHERE they have had to spend it.

Judging from the way they talk about the issue, I think they would have much rather invested the funds on permanent players, had the timing been right and had they been able to get the right ones. Sadly the situation left them with no alternative other than young players who are not good enough; or loan players. I can accept what they are saying and they have been honest enough to admit mistakes have been made at the club. They have pledged to learn from it and make it right in the future! What more can we ask for?!

 

[Foxy]

I'd just like to make the point as well, that the questions, comments and also the reactions to Friday posted on here were passed on to the club and certainly the case Saturday, were passed verbatim to Kevin McCabe who sat and read through them in front of my very eyes.

The concerns/feelings aren't just being ignored and a number of them are shared by the people they are aimed at.

 

[Linz]

I'd just like to make the point as well, that the questions, comments and also the reactions to Friday posted on here were passed on to the club and certainly the case Saturday, were passed verbatim to Kevin McCabe who sat and read through them.

.... shaking his head.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

out of interest upto which page were handed over?

One thing I forgot to put on was are they aware of the amount of ST not renewing claiming it is entirely due to the manager.

 

[Linz]

out of interest upto which page were handed over?

One thing I forgot to put on was are they aware of the amount of ST not renewing claiming it is entirely due to the manager.

I printed it out at about 7:30am on Saturday morning.

 

[lenners]

We know Ched didn't cost £3 Million upfront, which is what you called. <yawn>

Bob, you've already made yourself look a bit daft on this one. I'd quit while you were behind.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Bob, you've already made yourself look a bit daft on this one. I'd quit while you were behind.

So did he cost £3 Million upfront as you claimed Len. All the evidence would suggest no.


How about us not selling more tickets than the Wendies before the renewal deadline? How did that one pan out for you?

Keep spinning Len me olde. I'll leave you with me great mate Dr Cox

[video=youtube;WrjwaqZfjIY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY[/video]


You can keep that clip Len, I think you'll need it more than me.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I printed it out at about 7:30am on Saturday morning.

Cheer Linz, seeing as you were there for both the "chats" what were yours and foxy's opinion on it all? An honest, open exchange of opinion or do you think they were just trying to bullshit everyone into buying season tickets?

 

[Foxy]

Cheer Linz, seeing as you were there for both the "chats" what were yours and foxy's opinion on it all? An honest, open exchange of opinion or do you think they were just trying to bullshit everyone into buying season tickets?

I thought it was a decent exchange, but a little too managed and tight compared to the first Q&A McCabe did.

That wasn't on the part of McCabe and Birch, but the way the events were set up. For example, Seth leading the questions on Friday, moving on quickly etc.

I don't think they were trying to bullshit everyone to buy tickets by any stretch of the imagination, had they been doing that, the talk would have been completely different. In fact, on a number of occaisions people asked for a fresh rallying cry, rather than the two at the front pushing and bugging people to renew.

On the Saturday, Kevin McCabe actually said they'd carry on when he was being told they had to finish, much to the annoyance of the commercial staff who needed to set up for the pre-match

It was at this stage (when we run out of extended time) when Richard Batho asked if they'd commit to further similar sessions and Trevor Birch agreed that they would.

I didn't come out of it as positive as the first Q&A a year ago, but Kevin McCabe re-enforced some of my previous opinion of him with some of the things he said and the hurt he showed at some of the accusations. Trevor Birch impressed me, but he isn't a flashy in your face type, he comes across as shy, calm and collected.

It changed some of my assumptions/thoughts, but it was fairly predictable given that people insist on asking the same (already answered) questions again and again

 

[Linz]

Cheer Linz, seeing as you were there for both the "chats" what were yours and foxy's opinion on it all? An honest, open exchange of opinion or do you think they were just trying to bullshit everyone into buying season tickets?

To be honest, I think McCabe is a bit fed up of answering the same old questions. He's held his hands up and admitted that they've made mistakes and that he's no reason to lie. He's frustrated that so many people are willing to believe "crap and myths" (his words) but won't listen when he or anyone else at the club tries to tell them any otherwise.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

To be honest, I think McCabe is a bit fed up of answering the same old questions. He's held his hands up and admitted that they've made mistakes and that he's no reason to lie. He's frustrated that so many people are willing to believe "crap and myths" (his words) but won't listen when he or anyone else at the club tries to tell them any otherwise.

Many thanks to Liz and Foxy for the transcripts, I've only just finished reading them. There was one question that I posted that doesn't seem to have been addressed at all. I asked if it was true that we had had bids accepted for Surman, McIndoe and Smith who subsequently moved to other clubs for a total of £3.7M. If it was true, why was the £3.7M not spent on other players?

I can't find anything in the transcript from Friday that relates to this. Was it discussed at all on Saturday? I based the question on a statement on the official website, so it shouldn't be dismissed as "crap and myths".

 

[Micalijo]

To be honest, I think McCabe is a bit fed up of answering the same old questions. He's held his hands up and admitted that they've made mistakes and that he's no reason to lie. He's frustrated that so many people are willing to believe "crap and myths" (his words) but won't listen when he or anyone else at the club tries to tell them any otherwise.

Maybe it would help if manager, chairman and chief exec were pulling in same direction, saying the same things about budgets, Evans, how many chances we create per game etc. Maybe then, we could cut through some of the so clalled myths and crap?

 

[Micalijo]

We might well do Worksop and that is a very good point you made. Shame no one threw that one back at him in the forum to see what his reaction would have been.

I just think that at the end of the day, for all we mump and moan, TB and KM will make the decisions (KB also) and that it is pointless everyone getting their knickers in a twist over it. We have to trust someone to deal with the day to day running of the club and I can think of much worse people than these two fellas, who from past experiences in business seem to know what they're on about. From listening to these two it would appear that they are unhappy with the amount of money they have had to spend this season and more specifically WHERE they have had to spend it.

Judging from the way they talk about the issue, I think they would have much rather invested the funds on permanent players, had the timing been right and had they been able to get the right ones. Sadly the situation left them with no alternative other than young players who are not good enough; or loan players. I can accept what they are saying and they have been honest enough to admit mistakes have been made at the club. They have pledged to learn from it and make it right in the future! What more can we ask for?!

It's all very well saying that and I;m sure there were good players who we couldnt get but the whole idea is to employ a manager who can attract players or improve players who were the ones we could afford. Blackwell will moan about not getting the right players but it's his job to make do and improve the players he can get. He obviously can't do it and to claim how skint we've been when we've spent £14m on wages alone this year is a disgrace and a sacking offence. This total contradiction between McCabe wants us to hear and what Blackwell wants us to hear is something that is crippling the club and preventing it from moving forward.

 

[Linz]

Maybe it would help if manager, chairman and chief exec were pulling in same direction, saying the same things about budgets, Evans, how many chances we create per game etc. Maybe then, we could cut through some of the so clalled myths and crap?

I did say that. Even pointing out the exact quote from Blackwell re. "14 players". It was "something they had to look at".

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I think both Foxy & Linz have done us proud - I've got Buckley's chance of making a session like this through distance and work commitments and would only normally have people's opinions to go on afterwards. You're both on track to become Lane legends.

I'm glad we don't have faceless owners and management who don't engage with the fans. Am I happy with everything they do? Of course not. Do I expect the owners of the club I support to be transparent in the way that they run it - of course not. I firmly believe they run it in their own interest (I'd do precisely the same) - but I'm not as adamant as some that their interest runs counter to ours.

We can analyse the arse off hidden meanings in the answers all we like - it won't change what has already happened. I cannot honestly believe they don't know how the supporters feel, and I'm sure that they'll have been fed into the Casio calculator on Trev's desk. What they do will add up to what they think is the best answer when he hits equals - if this doesn't make us all feel ecstatic and ready to disrobe in the ticket office it was a calculated risk. You don't make the money KMcB has by accident.

 

[lenners]

Bobby, all the evidence suggests - even with the comedy duo not knowing (or pretending not to know) - that the transfer of the million pound a goal man is as described by yours truly.
Despite the equally comic efforts of Seth B to find some justification for punting the ridiculous £750,000 line all season.
I still think the 'we haven't a clue' response to the Kyle Walker question was the funniest bit though.

 

[LouTheBlade]

It's all very well saying that and I;m sure there were good players who we couldnt get but the whole idea is to employ a manager who can attract players or improve players who were the ones we could afford. Blackwell will moan about not getting the right players but it's his job to make do and improve the players he can get. He obviously can't do it and to claim how skint we've been when we've spent £14m on wages alone this year is a disgrace and a sacking offence. This total contradiction between McCabe wants us to hear and what Blackwell wants us to hear is something that is crippling the club and preventing it from moving forward.

I'm sorry Mic but that's the most simplistic perception of our situation ive ever heard. Let me just make one thing clear before I go any further - I am not pro-Blackwell but I am not anti-Blackwell either. I feel he could and should have done better this season and so should the players. I do however recognise that this season has been riddled with complications that have swelled our inadequacies and as a consequence have shown up the fundamental errors that have been made.

It is very easy to say Blackwell should be doing this and that with the players. Its easy to say he should be improving what he has. Have you ever stopped to consider that of his current squad, half of the players he has might be utter pap?! Many of them might be playing to their full potential and I suspect quite a few of them are. You cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear! I am not defending the manager because I myself, am totally unconvinced by him. But what I am saying is our failings arent all down to one person because the players, coaches and board all have to take some responsibility. Largely I think they have.

I dont see any contradiction between the manager and board. All I see is a manager that isnt aware of what he's going to have available yet.....purely because KM and TB have not decided on a budget at this time. It couldnt be much clearer to me and I accept it. Why is everyone moaning?!