Premiership prima donnas

[I should coco]

My dog can outrun Mo bloody Farrah without batting an eyelid.

Yes, but your dog wouldn't be counted in the attendance at BDTBL, whereas Mo would.

Also, Mo is probably rich enough to have someone pick up his shit, as opposed to your dog having you well trained to bend over.....

 

[Paulus]

It gives a person a certain grounding in the world picking up shit, can’t get too ahead of yourself!

I can safely say that Mo Farrah hasn’t got rich from me. And people take the piss out of footballers doing media interviews, jeez, just compare that with the next athlete interview. Well I just put one foot in front of the other..........

 

[8lade]

let's recognise that his coordination was based around a physical work rate far in excess of PL footballers are subject too.

No it's not harder training (or more or however you want to put it) it's different, I would wager that a PL footballer works much harder than top athletes (distance runner) with the exception of decathletes or triathletes for whom the varieties of training allow the body to put more sustained effort in.

IMO footballers couldn't match that and couldn't match the preparation that allows Farrah to do it.

And vice versa, you are trying to compare apples and pears here. (Mo Farah ran 12.9s for 100m at Superstars, there won't be many pro footballers that slow).

 

[SittingontheBall]

True again - but let's recognise that his coordination was based around a physical work rate far in excess of PL footballers are subject too.

If we take Coe out of the equation and make the comparison with Mo Farrah instead. A PL footballer will run 6-7 miles in 90 mins - in that time Farrah would have run over 20 miles. I accept that football doesn't require players to run that distance - but IMO footballers couldn't match that and couldn't match the preparation that allows Farrah to do it. That's why they are just footballers and not elite athletes. IMO, physically and mentally, elite athletes are in a different class to PL (footballing elite?) players.

Fatuous comparison of the two sports.
Completely ignores the impact elements of football - kicking, jumping, tackling, etc.
That’s without even thinking about diving, running after the ref., rolling around feigning injury and imminent death, and the other Grealish/Morrison antics.

 

[BushBlade]

Of course they have the biggest voices, it’s like that in every country, if we had been in there place for last 100 years we would be saying the same

I remember when Fergie and Man Ure tossed the cup of to chase some money but this seems to be more we have been told this needs to be a break now you are telling us to play etc

I personally don’t think there is any need for replays, I think the FA and prem/EFL could be sensible and change the money structure to see teams from lower leagues getting more cash from the ties so they don’t lose out on money from replays

That’s not quite the case though. The replays during the ‘winter break’ have been scheduled since the start of the season, it shouldn’t come as a surprise.

 

[SheepdipBlade]

No it's not harder training (or more or however you want to put it) it's different, I would wager that a PL footballer works much harder than top athletes (distance runner) with the exception of decathletes or triathletes for whom the varieties of training allow the body to put more sustained effort in.

And vice versa, you are trying to compare apples and pears here. (Mo Farah ran 12.9s for 100m at Superstars, there won't be many pro footballers that slow).

To be quite honest I think you're wrong here. I'd accept footballers need to do more technique training than most athletes (with the exception of multi disciplne events) - but physically and mentally PL footballers don't get close to the likes of Farrah and Coe. To me that's just common sense - there are literally hundreds of first squad PL footballers all meeting expected standards - Coe and Farrah were/are simply the fastest human beings ever over their distances - they are (almost) unique in their capacity for mental commitment and physical ability. Footballers don't get near IMO. You don't get to be the best individual in the world by having similar mental and physical talents to hundreds of others.

 

[BushBlade]

To be quite honest I think you're wrong here. I'd accept footballers need to do more technique training than most athletes (with the exception of multi disciplne events) - but physically and mentally PL footballers don't get close to the likes of Farrah and Coe. To me that's just common sense - there are literally hundreds of first squad PL footballers all meeting expected standards - Coe and Farrah were/are simply the fastest human beings ever over their distances - they are (almost) unique in their capacity for mental commitment and physical ability. Footballers don't get near IMO. You don't get to be the best individual in the world by having similar mental and physical talents to hundreds of others.

If athletics paid what football did I suspect you’d see a lot more athletes. If you’re comparing Coe and Farah to footballers then you should be talking about Messi and Ronaldo. Because just like in athletics, there are others that are close but not as good. There wasn’t anyone who could run as fast as Coe but there were many who were nearly as fast.

 

[Tezza1889]

When people talked about money ruining the game many years ago this was one thing they were on about.

I had a conversation last week about the cup and although I’d be at the tattooist should we win it I discussed the financial aspect of finishing 2 places higher due to a rested and fully fit squad, if it’s £3mill for winning it, we’d be £1mill better off finishing 2 places higher in the league because it’s £2mill per place.

When Sheff Utd fans (me) are thinking that way what choice do the Liverpool’s and Man City’s have when they talk in tens of millions for the champions league, I hope they focus a little longer on the other things personally, give us a chance of sneaking one before the FA allow them to start in the last 16 or something..

 

[mancunianblade]

Just get rid of replays. That's the simple answer

 

[Tezza1889]

If athletics paid what football did I suspect you’d see a lot more athletes. If you’re comparing Coe and Farah to footballers then you should be talking about Messi and Ronaldo. Because just like in athletics, there are others that are close but not as good. There wasn’t anyone who could run as fast as Coe but there were many who were nearly as fast.

When Coe and Ovett went toe to toe that was the last time I cared about athletics, those were the days, Daley Thompson, Fatima Whitbread, Steve Cram... amongst others, sure Coe used to run with the hallamshire harriers round hillsborugh park..

 

[Cappy]

If anyone is genuinely interested in physical effort by top field sport athletes. Look at the elite midfielders in the AFL (Aussie rules). Big distance, including lots of sprinting, leaping, plus impacts and upper body exertion for tackling. They’re phenomenal to watch in person.

 

[steve26272]

footballer's have always got ten mates to hide behind

tell Hendo that following the Liverpool goal~ no place to hide

Coe will never have felt the weight of his team mates like Hendo, Southgate & Pearce penalty, Beckhams red card

different inner strength been a solo competitor, no one to drag you along

I don’t get the adulation olympic athletes get tbh

’steve Redgrave, practices for 4 years to row a boat for 6 minutes and gets knighted?!

 

[SheepdipBlade]

If athletics paid what football did I suspect you’d see a lot more athletes. If you’re comparing Coe and Farah to footballers then you should be talking about Messi and Ronaldo. Because just like in athletics, there are others that are close but not as good. There wasn’t anyone who could run as fast as Coe but there were many who were nearly as fast.

That's a fair point. If we look to begin with at s couple of the finest footballers the UK has produced in my lifetime - George Best and Gazza, I assume we'd agree that neither could have lived with the workloads of a Brendan Foster or a Steve Cram. I know I'm exaggerating to make a point - but elite footballers don't need the mental or physical toughness of athletes. I'd say the same is true for Ronaldo and Messi. Their uniqueness lies in their skills with a ball - in effect their exceptional coordination. Farrah etc have their uniqueness in their exceptional endurance/speed/strength and their exceptional mental toughness to develop these talents to record breaking levels. IMO, footballers don't have this mental toughness - and don't need it. The technical demands of the game are greater than those of athletics, but the physical and mental demands less.

In relation to the OP re "pampered PL footballers" I'd reckon athletes work harder, have to have a mental toughness that allows for this workload and get a lot less reward in cash and fame - therefore, for my money PL footballers pretty much qualify as pampered prima donnas.

 

[BushBlade]

That's a fair point. If we look to begin with at s couple of the finest footballers the UK has produced in my lifetime - George Best and Gazza, I assume we'd agree that neither could have lived with the workloads of a Brendan Foster or a Steve Cram. I know I'm exaggerating to make a point - but elite footballers don't need the mental or physical toughness of athletes. I'd say the same is true for Ronaldo and Messi. Their uniqueness lies in their skills with a ball - in effect their exceptional coordination. Farrah etc have their uniqueness in their exceptional endurance/speed/strength and their exceptional mental toughness to develop these talents to record breaking levels. IMO, footballers don't have this mental toughness - and don't need it. The technical demands of the game are greater than those of athletics, but the physical and mental demands less.

In relation to the OP re "pampered PL footballers" I'd reckon athletes work harder, have to have a mental toughness that allows for this workload and get a lot less reward in cash and fame - therefore, for my money PL footballers pretty much qualify as pampered prima donnas.

Whereas I think most athletes are drug cheats so it’s not surprising their performance levels are high.

But the principle is still the same - if the athletes had to run competitively three times a week they’d be more likely to get injured. Everyone has a limit.

 

[SheepdipBlade]

tell Hendo that following the Liverpool goal~ no place to hide

Coe will never have felt the weight of his team mates like Hendo, Southgate & Pearce penalty, Beckhams red card

different inner strength been a solo competitor, no one to drag you along

I don’t get the adulation olympic athletes get tbh

’steve Redgrave, practices for 4 years to row a boat for 6 minutes and gets knighted?!

I think Jess Ennis would have felt even more pressure as the "pin up" for the London Olympics to be fair.

Whereas I think most athletes are drug cheats so it’s not surprising their performance levels are high.

But the principle is still the same - if the athletes had to run competitively three times a week they’d be more likely to get injured. Everyone has a limit.

Interesting point of view. I've never heard of Cram or Foster being accused of using drugs - or for that matter contemporary athletes like Radcliffe or Ennis - yet all are/we're World Record holders. I'd accept there's more drugs now than in my day - look at the Nike Oregon project let alone the Russians! But I do think some modern elite athletes are clean.

Your point about how often people can compete varies on the event. Marathon runners couldn't perform at peak levels three times a week of course - but others can. Once an athlete reaches a plateau of performance and form - eg Coe in the 800s - he's capable of repeated world class showings over a shorter time - such as his three records in eleven days.

Your point about limit is a good one - but as I'd argue football is in essence a sport of coordination it's easier to continually perform than it is for athletes where the sport is far more about physicality.

 

[robbiez666]

I have zero issue with Klopp playing a reserve/youth team.

I have so many issues with Klopp saying he won't ve managing the team. Just because they failed to win.

 

[8lade]

I've never heard of Cram or Foster being accused of using drugs - or for that matter contemporary athletes like Radcliffe or Ennis

Radcliffe has been, look up 'Radcliffe, passport'.
Yes i have and still perform athletics so have a huge interest in it but much less today when it appears all the greatest performers have the shadow of suspicion hanging over them. Having said that I was angry when Coe wanted to sanction all past records being expunged from the books as 'drug testing wasn't as thorough in the past'; at that point Radcliffe, (Jackson) and Edwards still held records.

 

[scouseblade]

Seb Coe broke three world records in eleven days. Proper sportsman - and not on £250K a week.

He didn't run 3 6.8km races though did he !!

 

[steve26272]

I think Jess Ennis would have felt even more pressure as the "pin up" for the London Olympics to be fair.

.
[/QUOTE

why wold you think she felt “more” pressure?

olympics is like a parallel universe, where no one, except die hards, really care - Except for the 2 weeks it’s actually on.
I don't see anyone in a Ennis vest walking round Meadowhall, even tho she is from Sheffield!

i would liken it to how the average American views soccer. A dedicated home following, but way behind american football, baseball and basketball
every 4 years they become patriotic and want their soccer team to do well at the World Cup, but once they are out, it’s a bit of a non starter

thats how most Brits view athletics, I want anyone competing for the UK/GB to do well, but I wouldn’t go beyond that

so no, I would say it’s all relative, but football as the biggest sport in the world, and UK, comes the biggest pressure

 

[SheepdipBlade]

By your own reasoning though - that for two weeks the whole country gets Olympic fever - wouldn't that suggest that as the focal point for the sport at that time Ennis carried far more pressure than any footballer. The closest parallel I could imagine might be an England footballer facing a penalty shootout in a world cup final. It'd be the only time that degree of pressure fell on one individual footballer's shoulders.

 

[steve26272]

By your own reasoning though - that for two weeks the whole country gets Olympic fever - wouldn't that suggest that as the focal point for the sport at that time Ennis carried far more pressure than any footballer. The closest parallel I could imagine might be an England footballer facing a penalty shootout in a world cup final. It'd be the only time that degree of pressure fell on one individual footballer's shoulders.

guess so, but is the ”whole country” as passionate about it as they are their football team?
i wanted Ennis to win of course, but I wouldn’t have missed a friends wedding/spent several hundred pounds/been mardy all evening etc had she not

i don’t doubt the pressure anyone feels, think about Dennis Taylor on “that black” can you imagine pressure like that, silence, the whole world watching etc. Would put that exact point in time greater than Most to be fair

 

[SheepdipBlade]

guess so, but is the ”whole country” as passionate about it as they are their football team?
i wanted Ennis to win of course, but I wouldn’t have missed a friends wedding/spent several hundred pounds/been mardy all evening etc had she not

i don’t doubt the pressure anyone feels, think about Dennis Taylor on “that black” can you imagine pressure like that, silence, the whole world watching etc. Would put that exact point in time greater than Most to be fair

Aye - that was certainly another tense time for one person to shoulder. I guess that makes footballers greater prima donnas than snooker players too

 

[Hague Blade]

If anyone is genuinely interested in physical effort by top field sport athletes. Look at the elite midfielders in the AFL (Aussie rules). Big distance, including lots of sprinting, leaping, plus impacts and upper body exertion for tackling. They’re phenomenal to watch in person.

This. When I lived in Perth, the West Coast Eagles had a couple of midfielders, Chris Judd and Ben Cousins. Genuinely two of the most amazing specimens I’ve ever seen, and it transpired Cousins did it for a prolonged period while off his nut on drugs all week.

 

[steve26272]

Aye - that was certainly another tense time for one person to shoulder. I guess that makes footballers greater prima donnas than snooker players too

what makes you say that?!

 

[Cappy]

This. When I lived in Perth, the West Coast Eagles had a couple of midfielders, Chris Judd and Ben Cousins. Genuinely two of the most amazing specimens I’ve ever seen, and it transpired Cousins did it for a prolonged period while off his nut on drugs all week.

Go Freo

 

[Hague Blade]

Cousins - and this was past his prime after the drug stuff had come to light, hence the stomach tatt.

 

[Hague Blade]

Go Freo

I wanted an underdog so I ended up following Western Bulldogs. Great spectacle once you suss out what’s going on.

 

[Rollerball]

Pro athletes should really have no problem playing football however many times a season and yes money does matter in the equation, people talk about conditioning, pressure etc look at Eddie Izzard, celebrity transvestite, hardly what anyone would call a well oiled sportsman, yet for charity ran over 20 marathon distances in 27 days, yet professional highly conditioned sportsmen can play a game twice in 7 days without being "tired" to me this sounds like they want their cake (huge wages) and eat it (not actually have to work too hard to get it).
Some players on £250+ grand a week, yet can say nah I'm not playing at Scunthorpe on a Tuesday night or Shrewsbury any night , and if they get fined or carpeted they immediately ask for a transfer, if that's not the epitome of Prima Donna behaviour them please pray tell what is.