Play to the whistle ....

[Foxy]

causes him to wave play on

Utterly convinced real time he chased after him pointing at the lino...

Just watched the replay for the first time and this does nothing to convince me I'm wrong...

 

[A Storm of Blades]

I've seen it enforced twice and blatantly ignored to allow obvious attempts at time wasting far more.

Utterly fucking pointless, like most of their inconsistent tweaks to 'improve' our game.

It’s like these farmers have never played the game. Let’s introduce a rule to stop time wasting at substitutions. Ok, so the subbed player starts to trot towards the dugout, ref then directs him towards a closer touchline, player then argues/pretends not to hear, player gets booked (at worst). You’ve just trebled the time taken for that substitution. Outstanding work.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

Utterly convinced real time he chased after him pointing at the lino...

Just watched the replay for the first time and this does nothing to convince me I'm wrong...

I think you’re right. He’s certainly flapping in that direction. To be honest, fuck knows what he’s wafting about. How people can expect Henderson to have a clue what’s happening is beyond me.

 

[Oldun]

He pointed at the lino to acknowledge the flag. But he kept up with play and didn’t blow his whistle. Where is the confusion?

 

[YES Blade]

the linesman is there to support the ref and provide advice to situations where they are in a better position than the ref to see. The ref has always been allowed to overrule a linesman’s flag. That fact that it’s rare in an offside call, should not detract from the fact that it’s the ref that has the final decision.

The only real difference now is that when the ball is dead, the VAR can overrule the ref.

That’s the thing, referees did overrule for offsides pre VAR e.g. if the ball went back off the defending team and not the attack.

Having watched the goal back it’s pretty embarrassing on our part and is being used by many as a stick to beat VAR with. But as the national media are pointing out, it’s our balls up and not VAR.

 

[Foxy]

He pointed at the lino to acknowledge the flag. But he kept up with play

Did he? Real time I thought he'd stalled then chased him to attempt to bring it back pointing at the linesman.

Watched replay once, seemed to delay less, but be miles behind and still pointing at his linesman, who was static, flag up. You know like they are not doing until a decision has been made this year

Numerous in the ground thought he'd whistled, having seen him put his whistle in his mouth and supposedly heard it.

I'd be lying if I said I'd heard one, but whilst impressed with his initial run and thinking Carroll was onside or very tightly off so we were fortunate, I was hoodwinked into thinking it'd been given offside and he was wasting time.

 

[Houston_Blade]

I've seen it enforced twice and blatantly ignored to allow obvious attempts at time wasting far more.

Utterly fucking pointless, like most of their inconsistent tweaks to 'improve' our game.

Against Burnley Wilder visibly sent Mousset to the far side of the pitch before he brought him off. We can’t really moan at that one as we’ve abused it ourselves.

 

[Foxy]

Against Burnley Wilder visibly sent Mousset to the far side of the pitch before he brought him off. We can’t really moan at that one as we’ve abused it ourselves.

Yes we can, the ref should have told Mousse too. As they should have been doing all season. Laws are laws, whether we join in and try to push them ourselves or not.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

the linesman is there to support the ref and provide advice to situations where they are in a better position than the ref to see. The ref has always been allowed to overrule a linesman’s flag. That fact that it’s rare in an offside call, should not detract from the fact that it’s the ref that has the final decision.

The only real difference now is that when the ball is dead, the VAR can overrule the ref.

But that’s my point, the extreme rarity of a ref overriding a linesman’s flag, means it’s signalling carries the same weight as a refs whistle and therefore has an impact. People saying ‘play to the whistle’ when an offside flag has been raised are being slightly disingenuous in my view.

 

[YES Blade]

Against Burnley Wilder visibly sent Mousset to the far side of the pitch before he brought him off. We can’t really moan at that one as we’ve abused it ourselves.

It’s funny ain’t it how football fans turn a blind eye to the cheating tactics of their team.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

He pointed at the lino to acknowledge the flag. But he kept up with play and didn’t blow his whistle. Where is the confusion?

Why acknowledge the flag?

 

[Houston_Blade]

Yes we can, the ref should have told Mousse too. As they should have been doing all season. Laws are laws, whether we join in and try to push them ourselves or not.

Of course we can but I actually thought it was a clever ploy against Burnley so I’m not going to castigate cabbage head for doing the same.

I’m much more astounded at the brass neck of the bloke for not giving us the ball back given his experience at Arsenal once upon a time. I am moaning about that.

 

[Foxy]

It’s funny ain’t it how football fans turn a blind eye to the cheating tactics of their team.

I don't like us doing it... I'm moaning about the inconsistent application of the law, not a particular side taking advantage.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

I think you’re right. He’s certainly flapping in that direction. To be honest, fuck knows what he’s wafting about. How people can expect Henderson to have a clue what’s happening is beyond me.

It’s pretty simple. If someone is bearing down on you with the ball, and the ref hasn't blown their whistle, assume the ball is live.

 

[Oldun]

Why acknowledge the flag?

To show he has seen it? In the same way the ref acknowledges a foul but plays advantage. I’ve seen that but I’m playing on and I haven’t blown my whistle.

 

[Foxy]

It’s pretty simple. If someone is bearing down on you with the ball, and the ref hasn't blown their whistle, assume the ball is live.

But the fact that numerous supporters thought they'd heard one and the other visual evidence that play had stopped? (lino stood still as if it'd been given, ref pointing to him, defence stopped, appeared to be time wasting)... I'm a massive advocate of playing to the whistle and in some circumstances beyond it, but can totally understand Henderson's confusion and reluctance after the Wolves VAR.

For me, Hendo gets and easier ride than the first defenders who stopped.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

But the fact that numerous supporters thought they'd heard one and the other visual evidence that play had stopped? (lino stood still as if it'd been given, ref pointing to him, defence stopped, appeared to be time wasting)... I'm a massive advocate of playing to the whistle and in some circumstances beyond it, but can totally understand Henderson's confusion and reluctance after the Wolves VAR.

For me, Hendo gets and easier ride than the first defenders who stopped.

watch the replay. Atwell did not blow his whistle.

 

[YES Blade]

I don't like us doing it... I'm moaning about the inconsistent application of the law, not a particular side taking advantage.

I just accept it as part of the game now, the law makers are the only ones that can stop it.

For example, why don’t football use a countdown timer in the stadium which is stopped for subs, injuries and VAR? The player could do a lap of the pitch before coming off and it wouldn’t have any impact on the match. But football don’t seem to do simple and obvious solutions!

 

[Mojo]

There is no point stopping an attack even if lino flags or ref blows, might as well just play on and wait for VAR to decide.

 

[Oldun]

There is no point stopping an attack even if lino flags or ref blows, might as well just play on and wait for VAR to decide.

Spot on. Except for the bit about the ref blowing.

 

[spikeachu]

The logical conclusion to this is that whether a whistle has been blown or a flag waved, an attacker is going to plough a dead ball into the net anyway knowing that it's going to be VAR checked.

A whistle went at Wolves and a VAR check took place for a penalty. You'd assume a VAR check would have happened if he'd stuck the ball in the net.

A VAR check too place against Newcastle when the game was as good as stopped because a flag went up that should only have gone up for an obvious offside.

Implementing it this way leaves an attacker in a no lose situation and don't be surprised to find it exploited and ruin the game further.

 

[Mojo]

Spot on. Except for the bit about the ref blowing.

What if ref sees the linos flag and blows but we then score... And it goes to VAR and shows we were onside?

 

[Oldun]

VAR can’t check anything after the whistle has gone and play has been stopped.

 

[Mojo]

I say dont stop for anything now just keep playing on until opponent wins the ball back

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

The logical conclusion to this is that whether a whistle has been blown or a flag waved, an attacker is going to plough a dead ball into the net anyway knowing that it's going to be VAR checked.

A whistle went at Wolves and a VAR check took place for a penalty. You'd assume a VAR check would have happened if he'd stuck the ball in the net.

A VAR check too place against Newcastle when the game was as good as stopped because a flag went up that should only have gone up for an obvious offside.

Implementing it this way leaves an attacker in a no lose situation and don't be surprised to find it exploited and ruin the game further.

Aside from the technology used, the biggest problem with VAR, is that the referees decision is not final.

Var should alert a ref to a potential infringement, the ref should then go to a pitchside monitor, stick on some noise cancelling headphones to insulate themselves from the crowd, and then make the decision themselves.

 

[Toronto Blade]

What the referee told Jonjo Shelvey ahead of VAR goal at Sheffield United

The Newcastle United midfielder's quick thinking earned Magpies their second goal in Bramall Lane win

www.chroniclelive.co.uk

How nice of the ref to tell Shelvey that gem, did he indicate or tell any Blades to play on or was it just for Shelvey to hear.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

What the referee told Jonjo Shelvey ahead of VAR goal at Sheffield United

The Newcastle United midfielder's quick thinking earned Magpies their second goal in Bramall Lane win

www.chroniclelive.co.uk

How nice of the ref to tell Shelvey that gem, did he indicate or tell any Blades to play on or was it just for Shelvey to hear.

Are we in the stage of the Kubler-Ross grief model, where we assume everything is a conspiracy?

 

[Scott Blade]

If, as suggested, the linesman flagging is purely to assist the refereee and players/supporters are now supposed to ignore it then why bother waving round a highly visible flourescent flag at all and risk distracting the players with it?

The linesmen have a microphone and also a buzzer - both of which could be used to alert the refereee (and in fact the buzzer is already used for that purpose) - all without interfering with play in any way

Trying to communicate with the referee on a 1 to 1 basis by way of flags when they have a perfectly good radio system and buzzer/receiver just wouldn't make sense whilst they are also running around and trying to keep up with the game. Would be like trying to use semaphore to speak with a mate in private when you've got a mobile phone in your pocket

Rightly or wrongly, linesman's flags have always been used to indicate to all the participants (players and the wider audience) what is happening in the game - just the same as the referee's hand signals. As an example of that, consider the common scenario that also happened tonight of a linesman flagging one way for a throw-in and being overruled by the referee. In that scenario, the linesman will always correct their flag and put it the other way. Why do that if the flags are only ever intended for consumption by the referee as the ref would already know the decision, having made it? It's because of the expectation built up over many years that linesmans flags are a signal of a decision taken and not just a bit of advice for the ref. It's confusing if (as is probably the case) the same signal can sometimes be optional advice and sometimes be an indication.

Like many others, it's instinct now for me to have a quick glance over at the linesman when a goal goes in if there is any possible reason it could be disallowed. I can think of many occasions where I've seen the linesman's flag go up and been back down in my seat probably before the ball is even put in the net and have been waiting for those around me to realise it's not a goal and stop celebrating. I probably can't risk doing that any more as we just don't know what the flag really means

Not saying the decision tonight was technically wrong but the rules are somewhat broken and not helped by this latest inclusion which complicates things further and makes it more likely that the controversial gaps in the rules will be hit

The information on offsides from the PL website (https://www.premierleague.com/news/1297403) states that the linesman should not flag if they are not certain but should flag immediately if they are certain. However, in either case, the referee should apparently not blow his whistle until the phase of play has ended. Conclusions from that are that (A) linesman are rendered utterly pointless as the ref is told to play on in either case (where presumably VAR would then check it) and (B) I'm not convinced that referees are waiting to blow in most of these cases. A lot of time they still seem to blow as soon as the flag goes up and prevent possible goalscoring opportunities from developing further. The above link suggests this should not be happening

Broken rules being applied without consistency and assisted by technology which is not fit for purpose (e.g. low framerate cameras and low resolution of the Spurs offside image where they are making decisions on the size of a toe whilst some of the other players don't even seem to have any feet at all etc). I don't personally feel the game is any better now than it was before so have to question whether all the farce is worth it (let alone the damage it does to goal celebrations and in-stadium experience)

 

[Rufus Smalls]

VAR can’t check anything after the whistle has gone and play has been stopped.

Hold on ...... Didzy scores at Spurs and I’m guessing the ref probably blew his whistle and pointed to the centre circle for a re-start. VAR is then used to disallow the goal in the build up play.

The fact is that irrespective of the ref blowing the whistle or not, the goal can be overruled by VAR. So playing to the whistle is now irrelevant.

 

[Tezza1889]

Hold on ...... Didzy scores at Spurs and I’m guessing the ref probably blew his whistle and pointed to the centre circle for a re-start. VAR is then used to disallow the goal in the build up play.

The fact is that irrespective of the ref blowing the whistle or not, the goal can be overruled by VAR. So playing to the whistle is now irrelevant.

Nope, play to the whistle, but now ignore every flag till you hear the whistle..

I know the flag should only be up for a 100% offside so when it went up he should have whistled, but he didn’t, so play to the whistle and ignore all flags going forward..

When didsy scores the ball crossed a line and play stopped, that’s the difference btw..

I’ll try to get back to sleep now, funkin insomnia..