Academy reshuffle

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Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
In case you missed it. Former Shirecliffe Academy Manager, Travis Binnion, who was replaced by Jack Lester, has been appointed U14-U16 Lead Coach at Manchester United.

https://trainingground.guru/articles/former-sheffield-united-academy-manager-joins-manchester-united
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I think we can assume Travis has been poached he is now working under cox who was poached a while ago.
These things take a while to be completed so I think we were proactive in replacing him.
We wouldn't sack a coach who takes over a roll at Man Utd would we ?.
Surely that would be counter productive.
Wilder has his idea's but cant see this being one that he wanted to happen.
 
Thing is Chris thinks I would imagine that things went a bit stagnant at the academy so needed shaking up also knowing jack as I do personally he is a brilliant coach as at notts forest as he proved so an ideal replacement for trav he also is a massive blades as are his family and children so again part of the blades family is on board ! As I’m up at the academy regular to what a friends lad I see him all the time watching every age group game so he’s certainly putting the hours and he is absolutely loving the job.
 
finlaytheblade said:
I think we can assume Travis has been poached he is now working under cox who was poached a while ago.
These things take a while to be completed so I think we were proactive in replacing him.
We wouldn't sack a coach who takes over a roll at Man Utd would we ?.
Surely that would be counter productive.
Wilder has his idea's but cant see this being one that he wanted to happen.
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Wilder wanted this to happen and his experience of bringing players through at Forest U18s and then U21s that graduated to the first team and some sold for substantial fees. Jack’s experience of working with the Wales u21 team and extensive knowledge of coaching on the continent. The academy will be richer for all his experience, all his family aren’t massive blades but neither are they the other lot. Whatever experience he has Wilder knew he was the man for the job and he will do brilliantly. Jack knows what our academy needs and in my opinion he will get the resources to achieve it.
 
I am not in the know. As a game watching fan. I am a very big fan of Binnion. Following him leaving the club, a number of Carrier Baggers have spoken to Travis & John Dungworth at various age group games they have pitched up to. I do not think there is anything like a bust up. Just a simple parting of the ways. But, I do not think Travis was poached by Manchester United. I think he was "sacked" "replaced" at Shirecliffe. Started looking for jobs. And eventually ended up, in a completely different role, at Manchester United.
 
Gary Martin jackson said:
Thing is Chris thinks I would imagine that things went a bit stagnant at the academy so needed shaking up also knowing jack as I do personally he is a brilliant coach as at notts forest as he proved so an ideal replacement for trav he also is a massive blades as are his family and children so again part of the blades family is on board ! As I’m up at the academy regular to what a friends lad I see him all the time watching every age group game so he’s certainly putting the hours and he is absolutely loving the job.
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Always wondered if you can just turn up & watch the first team train at Shirecliffe as well as watch the academy games.
Do they allow it and how do you get the information there’s a match on?
 
FATTYFOULKE said:
Always wondered if you can just turn up & watch the first team train at Shirecliffe as well as watch the academy games.
Do they allow it and how do you get the information there’s a match on?
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The U18 Academy side play League games at Shirecliffe, usually on Saturday mornings/lunch. In the main alternating Home & Away like most leagues. The U16s play "shadow" games at roughly the same time Vs the same opponents. The U18s play in the U18 Professional Development League. Roughly Tier Three of the U18 system. The tier for Category 2 Academies. Mostly, all welcome, turn up, walk in, watch. Sometimes some over protective Bollocks if the first team are lounging around.

https://www.sufc.co.uk/academy/matches/under18s-fixtures/

www.twitter.com/sufcdevelopment

?is that what you're asking?
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
The U18 Academy side play League games at Shirecliffe, usually on Saturday mornings/lunch. In the main alternating Home & Away like most leagues. The U16s play "shadow" games at roughly the same time Vs the same opponents. The U18s play in the U18 Professional Development League. Roughly Tier Three of the U18 system. The tier for Category 2 Academies. Mostly, all welcome, turn up, walk in, watch. Sometimes some over protective Bollocks if the first team are lounging around.

https://www.sufc.co.uk/academy/matches/under18s-fixtures/

www.twitter.com/sufcdevelopment

?is that what you're asking?
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Yes thanks and also can you turn up and watch the first team train?
 
FATTYFOULKE said:
Yes thanks and also can you turn up and watch the first team train?
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Depends on the day and the manager across football... Some like to recreate Fort Knox, others are fine on none tactical sessions, others couldn't care less.

Having not had the free time since Wilder came in to watch any, I couldn't tell you the current 'welcome', but I'd have thought with the step up to Premier League, we'll be fairly guarded... You aren't gonna get a schedule and a deckchair :)
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
I am not in the know. As a game watching fan. I am a very big fan of Binnion. Following him leaving the club, a number of Carrier Baggers have spoken to Travis & John Dungworth at various age group games they have pitched up to. I do not think there is anything like a bust up. Just a simple parting of the ways. But, I do not think Travis was poached by Manchester United. I think he was "sacked" "replaced" at Shirecliffe. Started looking for jobs. And eventually ended up, in a completely different role, at Manchester United.
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OK Phil looks like the club is changing direction ( j Lester).Has a good cv so it looks like Wilder has an input regarding this.
Time will tell but hopefully the quality of players will improve ,not being critical of Travis as you can only work with what you are given.
 
In my mind, academy directors are charged with building people, not just footballers. They are expected to frame the managers ethos of hard work and team spirit, along with social and emotional responsibilities.
At the most junior level, they also need to have their educational needs met. It's definitely not an easy task. It will take a few years to build the future of individuals, who must learn that the group success comes before personal aspirations.
Given the relative paucity of talent emerging from our academy, maybe things were not developing in the way Wilder had hoped?
 
When the academy was most successful under Ron Reid and Kevin Fogg with players like - jagielka, walker, naughts, Maguire (was already ahead at U18s when pemberton took charge), Quinn etc it was because of Reid and Fogg being hands on as academy managers and getting their vision and ambitions out to the players and staff by actually coaching.

I understand the academy manager isn’t necessarily supposed to do all those things but that’s how you have genuine integration and implementation of ideas and not by sitting in an office making sure all the paperwork’s done.

The academy has failed in the last 4-5 years and it was sad to see a good coach in Binnion leave but Football is a fast moving business and he’ll do a great job at Man Utd.

Be interesting to see if Lester can actually get anyone in there but we haven’t produced anyone close to being good enough Brooks aside (a city player) for the past years and that’s a result of previous management and a failing first team who lost a lot of their best young players to other teams. In 3/4 more we’ll be bringing them back through as the next gen comes in
 

PittsburghBlade said:
Maguire hardly the past 4/5 years, DCL we sold for 2m, Brooks wasn’t ours.
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I wasnt talking about Maguire, I was referring to Ramsdale.

And what does it matter how much we sold DCL or Ramsdale for? You said the academy has failed; it has produced 3 PL players in the last 5 years, the sales of which funded our 2 promotions.

And all this "Brooks wasn't ours" stuff is rubbish if you ask me. We had him for 4 years, in which time he went from essentially a child, into a £12m (or whatever it was) footballer. That is partly in thanks to our academy coaching and recruitment staff.

Point being that our academy hasn't failed: it is still producing premier league footballers, with the sales of those players giving Wilder the money to fund 2 promotions.
 
DazBlade88 said:
The academy definitely hasn't failed. Ignore the likes of Brooks/Ramsdale/DLC at the top level and look through the leagues and you will see our graduates throughout the divisions.
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Everything academy related has to be looked through the prism of a post EPPP world. This was a conscious decision to target older kids that had fallen through the cracks at elite academies, or pick up kids that were playing non league football etc. The biggest successes are Brooks, Ramsdale and Adams who all spent time in our academy. Most non Category one academies would probably be better of being renamed 'finishing schools' these days; or else they have sadly shut altogether as clubs move to new models. The fact is, it's relatively cheap and quite accessible for Cat One clubs to take our best under 16 players for peanuts. The Manchester clubs have already taken a lot of our youngs uns. Even if they leave a day before their 16th birthdays and go on to win the Ballon Dor, the best we'll get is a couple of hundred grand.
 
It's worth mentioning some things that are a matter of public record. Wilder wants money spending on the training ground and academy. So much so he wants us to move to a category one academy.As I understand it, this wouldn't be possible at Shirecliffe due to the lack of accessible contiguous land. I notice Norwich have invested substantially in a Cat One system which effects the recruitment and retention of players but at a significant annual cost.
I asked McCabe and Binnion about productivity levels at the academy post EPPP, and Binnion on particular didn't seem that keen on upgrading to Cat One citing the targeting of elite academy drop outs as one of the reasons. Maybe a difference of opinion with Wilder?
 
nopigfansintown said:
It's worth mentioning some things that are a matter of public record. Wilder wants money spending on the training ground and academy. So much so he wants us to move to a category one academy.As I understand it, this wouldn't be possible at Shirecliffe due to the lack of accessible contiguous land. I notice Norwich have invested substantially in a Cat One system which effects the recruitment and retention of players but at a significant annual cost.
I asked McCabe and Binnion about productivity levels at the academy post EPPP, and Binnion on particular didn't seem that keen on upgrading to Cat One citing the targeting of elite academy drop outs as one of the reasons. Maybe a difference of opinion with Wilder?
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And a change of circumstances. We just couldn’t afford a Cat 1 academy when we were in L1, nor could we attract the best young kids. As a PL club (if we stay up) then we can easily afford a Cat 1 and should find it easier to attract local young players who will now see us as a viable alternative to the Manchester clubs.
 
Kanye said:
I wasnt talking about Maguire, I was referring to Ramsdale.

And what does it matter how much we sold DCL or Ramsdale for? You said the academy has failed; it has produced 3 PL players in the last 5 years, the sales of which funded our 2 promotions.

And all this "Brooks wasn't ours" stuff is rubbish if you ask me. We had him for 4 years, in which time he went from essentially a child, into a £12m (or whatever it was) footballer. That is partly in thanks to our academy coaching and recruitment staff.

Point being that our academy hasn't failed: it is still producing premier league footballers, with the sales of those players giving Wilder the money to fund 2 promotions.
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Brooks wasn't a Sheffield United academy product he got to us at 17 on professional terms.
 
BushBlade said:
And a change of circumstances. We just couldn’t afford a Cat 1 academy when we were in L1, nor could we attract the best young kids. As a PL club (if we stay up) then we can easily afford a Cat 1 and should find it easier to attract local young players who will now see us as a viable alternative to the Manchester clubs.
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It's probably just coincidence and timing as you say. At the time, I was questioning whether it was possible to rebuild from league one with a team full of academy players (post EPPP) which was McCabe's sales pitch .At the time, we'd had few fallow years. Ultimately, Chris Wilder and the sales of Brooks, Ramsdale, Adams and a few handy sell on clauses proved it was feasible.
If you're Cat One you become a shark in a sea of fish and can recruit more widly:; hold on to players for longer; or receive a much bigger financial recompense. The facilities and coaching are also an attraction to potential recruits. Something else that's worth a mention is the revelation of the Prince's conversation re a loan, in which he talked up Shirecliffe's development potential to a possible invester. This could indicate that discussions about moving away from Shirecliffe have been ongoing for some time, rather than the nefarious readings into the Prince's intentions that were on here at the time.
 
Addison said:
Joined Academy in 2014 signed professional forms March 2015.
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Born in 1997 (17) which hardly makes him part of United academy development. He left Man City in 2014 he was 16/17
 

Don't have enough pitches to be a cat 1 academy on site at shirecliffe, would mean moving to another site.

Probably was a bit harsh to suggest that those players didn't really feature for the academy teams but Brooks was signed at a late age and Adams never played for our academy teams.

We have the best GK coach in the country in Darren Ward and he's pushed Ramsdale on.
 
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