The other 14

[Niceguyeddie]

Well on track

 

[Niceguyeddie]

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

Absolutely no idea what the fuck is happening

 

[true99blade]

Does anybody know what on earth this means?

 

[bromtom]

Does anybody know what on earth this means?

Not really, I thought I did until I saw Crystal Palace below us, how can that be? They're 6th.

 

[Niceguyeddie]

Absolutely no idea what the fuck is happening

Does anybody know what on earth this means?

Have you read the thread

 

[Nonamedhorse]

Does anybody know what on earth this means?

I’m reading between the lines a little bit but I’ve sussed it, come next May we will either still be in the premier league or relegated to the championship. That’s my take on it anyway.

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

Have you read the thread

Yes I have. Still makes no sense.

 

[Kevin Arnott]

I think whichever 'position / league table' our opponents are from if we win 9 games out of 28 we'll be quids in.

 

[Niceguyeddie]

It's a league table of 14 teams ( no top six )
It assumes you will win all your home games against the other 14 so those results don't count
All away points against the other 14 count plus any points against the top 6 are a bonus and also count
The aim is to achieve baseline ( 0) or above so we are +4 on results so far

 

[Carlton Blade]

Of no use at all. The assumption that you start on 39 points and your home draws/defeats are minuses - why? What does that show?

The only way this would be of use would be if you got more points for an away win. But you don't.

 

[SUFC Guy]

I appreciate the effort to offer something a little different but it's just plain daft.

Are'nt we better just having a table without the top 6? Where would that leave us now? 6th?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

So basically you can be shit at home and it wouldn’t show?
I'm struggling to see the true value in this data if it’s so easily undermined?

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

I appreciate the effort to offer something a little different but it's just plain daft.

Are'nt we better just having a table without the top 6? Where would that leave us now? 6th?

I think the premise is fixtures against each other. But leave it at that. There's too many variables.

A virgin with too much time came up with this stuff.

 

[true99blade]

It's a league table of 14 teams ( no top six )
It assumes you will win all your home games against the other 14 so those results don't count
All away points against the other 14 count plus any points against the top 6 are a bonus and also count
The aim is to achieve baseline ( 0) or above so we are +4 on results so far

I’m still confused as to why this is even a thing. Maybe stick to the old fashioned, real, Premier League league table.

 

[TaxiBlade]

It's the exact same as the normal table except you get nothing for home points against the other 14

I thought you got -3 for losing to one of the 13 at home

Have you read the thread

I have, and given so much time to it (about 15 mins, that I want to know the significance of it. Or what it means (for a better term )

It's a league table of 14 teams ( no top six )

Got it, if you mean 'the so called big 6', or does it alter to include teams out of the top 6? (I assume the former, otherwise, I'm completely lost)

It assumes you will win all your home games against the other 14 so those results don't count

Don't waste time on me answering all these points, but can you answer me this one, as this is my main question:

Is the 39 points 'survival score' and winning all 13 (13x3) home matches against the 'non-big 6', coincidence, or how the algorithm as a whole works?

(in other words, is this statistics based around the fact that WE KNOW that 39 is roughly enough to stay up on average, so the whole thing is based around the 13 home games against the 'shitter' teams?)

All away points against the other 14 count plus any points against the top 6 are a bonus and also count

this would fit in with my thought above, if I'm right.

The aim is to achieve baseline ( 0) or above so we are +4 on results so far

The downside to it, if I've worked it out correctly, is that it depends on which order we all play our games.

e.g.

Watford first 6 homes are the 'big 6'
Our first 6 homes games are Watford, Newc,Burnley etc.

say we both lose all 6, then clearly we are in a worse position than Watford. But in the top quote, you said we get nothing. If we got -18 for this (-3x6) then it perhaps would show a bit more.

 

[TaxiBlade]

I’m still confused as to why this is even a thing. Maybe stick to the old fashioned, real, Premier League league table.

these things are everywhere though. This might have some merit, or might be a load of rubbish. I've tried to interpret it. A few things I don't get though.

Even at the beginning on MOTD, (or even worse on sky) - I know how many times the number 7 tied his shoe laces whilst entering the pitch, he's done it 14 times in the last 8 years on away grounds in which he scored the winner, or some nonsense.

 

[Elsecar_Blade]

Interesting to see that Villa are on -4 which suggests that they've had an easier start and haven't got the points you'd expect. I think some people - including Gareth Southgate - are getting a little excited about Villa who aren't all that. Mings should never have been picked for England over O'Connell and the idea that Grealish, good as he is, is being talked about for England when we have the likes of Maddison and Mount in that position already is amusing.

 

[Niceguyeddie]

Of no use at all. The assumption that you start on 39 points and your home draws/defeats are minuses - why? What does that show?

The only way this would be of use would be if you got more points for an away win. But you don't.

That's not what it is at all ,you don't start with 39 points

I thought you got -3 for losing to one of the 13 at home




I have, and given so much time to it (about 15 mins, that I want to know the significance of it. Or what it means (for a better term )



Got it, if you mean 'the so called big 6', or does it alter to include teams out of the top 6? (I assume the former, otherwise, I'm completely lost)



Don't waste time on me answering all these points, but can you answer me this one, as this is my main question:

Is the 39 points 'survival score' and winning all 13 (13x3) home matches against the 'non-big 6', coincidence, or how the algorithm as a whole works?

(in other words, is this statistics based around the fact that WE KNOW that 39 is roughly enough to stay up on average, so the whole thing is based around the 13 home games against the 'shitter' teams?)



this would fit in with my thought above, if I'm right.


The downside to it, if I've worked it out correctly, is that it depends on which order we all play our games.

e.g.

Watford first 6 homes are the 'big 6'
Our first 6 homes games are Watford, Newc,Burnley etc.

say we both lose all 6, then clearly we are in a worse position than Watford. But in the top quote, you said we get nothing. If we got -18 for this (-3x6) then it perhaps would show a bit more.

Yeah you're pretty much spot on it does say it takes into account difficult runs but I'm. Not sure how

 

[Carlton Blade]

That's not what it is at all ,you don't start with 39 points

Yeah you're pretty much spot on it does say it takes into account difficult runs but I'm. Not sure how

In essence you do because it's making the assumption that you win your 13 home games. So -3 is the same as 0. That makes no statistical contribution to any argument because losing away game can never be a negative score

 

[TaxiBlade]

Yeah you're pretty much spot on it does say it takes into account difficult runs but I'm. Not sure how

What about the minus 3 example?

If our first 6 home games were against 6 of these 14, then if we lost them:

would each of these be -3 points towards our running total?

If so, then I think I understand it.

In essence you do because it's making the assumption that you win your 13 home games. So -3 is the same as 0. That makes no statistical contribution to any argument because losing away game can never be a negative score

I think you get the points for away games. ***

I don't know what the bonus scores are though for the top 6 homes and aways. I've not seen the numbers for this so far.


***

so far this is how I understand it...

e.g.

SUFC v WATFORD - watford win - minus 3 for SU, +3 for watford
Watford v SU - SU win - +3 points for SU , -3 for watford

SUFC v Watford - united win - 0 for both
Watford v SU - watford win - 0 for both

SUFC v Watford - draw - 0 for SU, 1 for watford
Watford v SU - draw - 0 for watford, 1 for SU


-

is this right Niceguyeddie ?

-

if so, what is bonus for top 6?

eg.

SUFC v Chelsea (do we get 1 for draw and 3 for win?)
Chelsea v SU (do we ONLY get 1 for draw, and ONLY 3 for win?)

or is this included in the maths?

 

[gordoncharles]

More perplexing than the laws of Rugby Union and quite probably even more utterly futile than "Expected Goals"

 

[Carlton Blade]

What about the minus 3 example?

If our first 6 home games were against 6 of these 14, then if we lost them:

would each of these be -3 points towards our running total?

If so, then I think I understand it.



I think you get the points for away games. ***

I don't know what the bonus scores are though for the top 6 homes and aways. I've not seen the numbers for this so far.


***

so far this is how I understand it...

e.g.

SUFC v WATFORD - watford win - minus 3 for SU, +3 for watford
Watford v SU - SU win - +3 points for SU , -3 for watford

SUFC v Watford - united win - 0 for both
Watford v SU - watford win - 0 for both

SUFC v Watford - draw - 0 for SU, 1 for watford
Watford v SU - draw - 0 for watford, 1 for SU


-

is this right Niceguyeddie ?

-

if so, what is bonus for top 6?

eg.

SUFC v Chelsea (do we get 1 for draw and 3 for win?)
Chelsea v SU (do we ONLY get 1 for draw, and ONLY 3 for win?)

or is this included in the maths?

I know you can score points for away games but you can't lose points. So away games are basically a "free hit". Why?

I just don't understand what this table is trying to achieve

 

[Niceguyeddie]

What about the minus 3 example?

If our first 6 home games were against 6 of these 14, then if we lost them:

would each of these be -3 points towards our running total?

If so, then I think I understand it.



I think you get the points for away games. ***

I don't know what the bonus scores are though for the top 6 homes and aways. I've not seen the numbers for this so far.


***

so far this is how I understand it...

e.g.

SUFC v WATFORD - watford win - minus 3 for SU, +3 for watford
Watford v SU - SU win - +3 points for SU , -3 for watford

SUFC v Watford - united win - 0 for both
Watford v SU - watford win - 0 for both

SUFC v Watford - draw - 0 for SU, 1 for watford
Watford v SU - draw - 0 for watford, 1 for SU


-

is this right Niceguyeddie ?

-

if so, what is bonus for top 6?

eg.

SUFC v Chelsea (do we get 1 for draw and 3 for win?)
Chelsea v SU (do we ONLY get 1 for draw, and ONLY 3 for win?)

or is this included in the maths?

You're on the money with everything really our draw at Chelsea was a point as our win at home to.arsenal was 3 points
However our victory at home to palace was 0 but our draw at Watford was 1
Out defeat to Southampton was -3

 

[Cerberus Blade]

And last season's table

View attachment 60737

I think you’ve got serious issues mate if you think this is a good idea. It’s totally flawed and absolute nonsense. Makes no sense whatsoever! But, if it gives you enjoyment then why not I suppose?

Why not try making up your own prem league table? Points for vowels or summat like that?

 

[Cerberus Blade]

I know you can score points for away games but you can't lose points. So away games are basically a "free hit". Why?

I just don't understand what this table is trying to achieve

something for the amusement of idiots I suspect?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Does anybody know what on earth this means?

Was just getting my head around Newcastle being top of the league when Leicester popped up there.

Are we safe yet?

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Ok, I’ll have a stab at this then...

Anyone outside the top six could realistically get sucked into a relegation scrap, and you need 39 points to assume safety, which is the number of points you’d get if you beat the other 13 at home and lost all your other games.

So dropped points at home against the other 13 are negative, gained points away or against the top 6 are bonuses. If you finish the season on zero or higher you should stay up.

That’s my best guess anyway. Still seems rather convoluted and assumes the top 6 will be unchanged...

it assumes we know who the top 6 will be from the outset (which we don’t) andthat they won’t change (which they will). You don’t need to look any further than that really!

 

[Niceguyeddie]

I think you’ve got serious issues mate if you think this is a good idea. It’s totally flawed and absolute nonsense. Makes no sense whatsoever! But, if it gives you enjoyment then why not I suppose?

Why not try making up your own prem league table? Points for vowels or summat like that?

Makes more sense than any of your posts

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Makes more sense than any of your posts

No doubt it does to you mate!