Good Business

[SwissBlade]

Del Boy out now...

Walker not likely to come back...

Naughton on loan at Boro...

But hey at least it was good business to get 10 Million for the two Kyles!

I think Blackie needs to have a serious word with the money men at the club.

Short sighted doesn't come close !

 

[Wards]

 

[alcoblade]

Del Boy out now...

Walker not likely to come back...

Naughton on loan at Boro...

But hey at least it was good business to get 10 Million for the two Kyles!

I think Blackie needs to have a serious word with the money men at the club.

Short sighted doesn't come close !

We're £50M in debt. It was good business to sell the two Kyle's for £10M, IMHO. The club has done a lot wrong, but selling those two wasn't the wrong decision for me. The events leading up to us no being able to decline such offers were where we went wrong.

If we hadn't sold the two and had lost Tevez, our club would be £80,000,000 in debt. And that's without any of the fun other piss potticle run clubs have had along the way.



UTB

 

[Grecian2000]

piss potticle

Not sure I understand what it means but I'm sure as hell going to try and fit it into a post or two from now on.

 

[mattbianco1]

Del Boy out now...

Walker not likely to come back...

Naughton on loan at Boro...

But hey at least it was good business to get 10 Million for the two Kyles!

I think Blackie needs to have a serious word with the money men at the club.

Short sighted doesn't come close !

Its a stream of unfortunate events. Sounds like Spurs are the t*ts here. If they hadn't took Walker back nobody would care

 

[SwissBlade]

I understand that we're in big debts, but isn't it all manageable, were not insolvent (i think thats the right word). The debt is also not related to the football club, but its the Football club that suffers.

How much would the Hotel have sold for? More than the (reported) 2 Mill we got for Walker?

On Alcoblades thinking, do we need to clear the debt before we even consider the PL and all its riches (Promotion is worth much more than 10 Million).

Also why didn't we put Ward, Morgs etc up for sale on Ebay at values that would represent good business?

Shall we sell the training facilities and the Stadium too if its good business?

The point is that we could obviously afford to keep them as they weren't on club crippling contracts, but when we sold them we didn't replace them, we relied on bringing back Walker on a risky loan and his back up was far from fit.

 

[DuncDisorderly]

I understand that we're in big debts..

Its a load of cock. The clubs debtor list and assets are way more than the debt. Its a smokescreen eagerly latched onto by the insider piggies to take the heat off King Pig and his lack of investment success (or any other kind of success really), and joyfully by some of our own 'supporters' who want a stick to beat the club with for their own ends.

The important thing for the club on the financial side is that in the summer, the mistakes of the Robson era will finally be put to bed. All the player contracts that we dont want renewing (and a couple that we do) are expiring. What is missing is some visible direction from the board and Chairman to help us understand where we go next. We know that we will almost certainly have Blackie in charge next season, and we aren't going to spend a fortune on buying a squad, but we won't have enough contracted players to put an 11 out. So then, what are we to do..? Thats for the board to tell us, when they get around to it...

 

[alcoblade]

Its a load of cock. The clubs debtor list and assets are way more than the debt. Its a smokescreen eagerly latched onto by the insider piggies to take the heat off King Pig and his lack of investment success (or any other kind of success really), and joyfully by some of our own 'supporters' who want a stick to beat the club with for their own ends.

The important thing for the club on the financial side is that in the summer, the mistakes of the Robson era will finally be put to bed. All the player contracts that we dont want renewing (and a couple that we do) are expiring. What is missing is some visible direction from the board and Chairman to help us understand where we go next. We know that we will almost certainly have Blackie in charge next season, and we aren't going to spend a fortune on buying a squad, but we won't have enough contracted players to put an 11 out. So then, what are we to do..? Thats for the board to tell us, when they get around to it...

Sorry Dunc, but some of us have plucked our heads out of our arses and can smell the coffee.

UTB

 

[Chingo]

What I want to know is ... what is this 50 million made up of ?

The hotel 18 million ... (a ridiculous addition IMO , why not wait until the worldcup decision before building it ?) , the corner stand ???? .... and what else ? , its not as if we've spent owt on players post Robson !


If we knew what was in the SUFC/Scarborough portfolio maybe it would be easier to understand ... IE are there anymore Staines health clubs in there ?

 

[alcoblade]

However it's made up, a huge proportion of next years revenue from gate receipts will be swallowed up servicing the near £5M required for interest payments. We thus require a relegated Chinese club that's bent as a nine bob note, a start-up hotel and shed loads of property at the arse end of the biggest bubble in history, to stop hemorrhaging money.

For questioning the soundness of our situation, I'm now referred to not as a supporter, but a "supporter".

UTB

 

[Micalijo]

Its a load of cock. The clubs debtor list and assets are way more than the debt. Its a smokescreen eagerly latched onto by the insider piggies to take the heat off King Pig and his lack of investment success (or any other kind of success really), and joyfully by some of our own 'supporters' who want a stick to beat the club with for their own ends.

The important thing for the club on the financial side is that in the summer, the mistakes of the Robson era will finally be put to bed. All the player contracts that we dont want renewing (and a couple that we do) are expiring. What is missing is some visible direction from the board and Chairman to help us understand where we go next. We know that we will almost certainly have Blackie in charge next season, and we aren't going to spend a fortune on buying a squad, but we won't have enough contracted players to put an 11 out. So then, what are we to do..? Thats for the board to tell us, when they get around to it...

We've been through this plenty of times but just to complete the formalities may I say that I could not disagree more with your first paragraph - unless you were calling McCabe's decision to load property debt onto the club a load of cock.

I think you are suggesting that I and plenty of others are not supporters of SUFC which is in my opinion a really pathetic line of argument.

 

[DuncDisorderly]

I think you are suggesting that I and plenty of others are not supporters of SUFC which is in my opinion a really pathetic line of argument.

Bit touchy, aren't we..?

For questioning the soundness of our situation, I'm now referred to not as a supporter, but a "supporter".

I have questioned it myself, on the odd occasion I managed to get my head out of my arse, but I think it is easy to spot that there are posters who are really little more than strong and consistent critics of the club dressed in supporters garb. They do not 'support' anything the club does, its manager, charirman, board, team, or anything else to do with it, just criticise the shit out of it, endlessly and often irrationally. Therefore in my eyes they are not supporters but 'supporters'. Its just my view. I didnt think of you when I wrote it, so don't get all defensive.

Anyway I think we've been round and round this particular dicussion labyrinth enough foir one lifetime. Roll on Saturday and 3pts...

 

[alcoblade]

Fair enough Dunc, but you did post it right beneath my rebuke of the club. And FWIW, I'm a long time yet recently lapsed clapper who takes no enjoyment at all from anything going wrong at our club. Some enjoy it because it proves them right, I hate it.

UTB

 

[lenners]

We're £50M in debt. It was good business to sell the two Kyle's for £10M, IMHO. The club has done a lot wrong, but selling those two wasn't the wrong decision for me. The events leading up to us no being able to decline such offers were where we went wrong.

If we hadn't sold the two and had lost Tevez, our club would be £80,000,000 in debt. And that's without any of the fun other piss potticle run clubs have had along the way.



UTB

That's the top and bottom of the staggering financial picture at United.
£80m, absolutely astonishing way to live a dream that resulted in one season in the sun.

 

[beightonblade]

I remember calling for McCabes head years ago an i was ridiculed !.....

best we've ever had i was told ........ aye reight

 

[SwissBlade]

I remember calling for McCabes head years ago an i was ridiculed !.....

best we've ever had i was told ........ aye reight

Well he probably is the best we've ever had!!! But that doesn't mean much with our history.

Has anyone seen Paul Woolhouse recently?

Something that would be interesting would be to know the overall worth of the club and PLC now

 

[alcoblade]

I remember calling for McCabes head years ago an i was ridiculed !.....

best we've ever had i was told ........ aye reight

Come off it BB. Your opinion on McCabe blows in the wind more than a fart. The other week you claimed everything he did was in the best interests of SUFC.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

Something that would be interesting would be to know the overall worth of the club and PLC now

Let's not get too wrapped up in the worth of the club. There's little doubt we've bought assets with some of the money we've spent. But we could have billions in assets - unless they generate enough cash then there's only one way we can fund the repayments on the loans for those assets - Cheerio Kyles, X2 - which brings us back to the start of the thread.

UTB

 

[Pinchy]

I should not assume any concensus about the two contracts "we want" renewing!

 

[Liaminho9]

lets be honest, there probably isnt a professional club in englnad that doesnt own any debt. look at manchester united, arguably the biggest club in the world, sells the most merchandise, and they have redidulous debts.

 

[SwissBlade]

Let's not get too wrapped up in the worth of the club.

Why not Alco? Because it doesn't suit your argument that we're "heavily in debt"?

I have no doubt that we have large loans and these require repayment.

My question about the worth is a genuine question. Most of us on here accept that the club have fed us spin over the past 5 years, depending upon McCabes's agenda at the time. First and for a long time it was "we're a huge club and we're aiming for Europe etc" and recently that all changed over night with the doom and gloom debt scenario.

But we could have billions in assets - unless they generate enough cash then there's only one way we can fund the repayments on the loans for those assets - Cheerio Kyles, X2 - which brings us back to the start of the thread.

Yes ...in your opinion and on the assumption that the ONLY way we can afford to service the loans is through player sales.

But do you know the repayment terms of the Hotel mortgage or McCabe Loans? Does anyone on here?

Do you know if the hotel and other linked services like the Gym etc can service the loan by itself?

Is the "football club" solely responsible for repaying the McCabe loans?

And IF the only way we can service these loans and keep the club running is by selling players for 10 Mil then we're in deep, deep trouble! However, I somehow doubt that this is the case as otherwise we wouldn't still be paying fee's for players like Ched, Cresswell and Yeates.

Debt alone isn't a reason to sell players, but being unable to repay them is!

There was a lower risk to us in keeping at least one of the Kyles, than selling them both. if we'd kept Walker then we'd have only have been in a win win situation. By selling both, its an extremely short sighted view

 

[beightonblade]

Come off it BB. Your opinion on McCabe blows in the wind more than a fart. The other week you claimed everything he did was in the best interests of SUFC.

UTB

it is ..... isn't it ?

 

[lenners]

Swiss, Trev's already told us that more player sales are on the way.
That is the only way we can pay our way.
Presumably this will mean Ward as him apart I'm struggling to think of a player who will rake in much.
Kind of odd as I'm sure our plan was to have plenty of young development players who might have a resale value.
Seems we either never acquired many or brought many through - or have already sold them.
All this for £48m of debt and one season in the Prem. We can't even do big ferkin' debt properly.

 

[SwissBlade]

Swiss, Trev's already told us that more player sales are on the way.
That is the only way we can pay our way.
Presumably this will mean Ward as him apart I'm struggling to think of a player who will rake in much.
Kind of odd as I'm sure our plan was to have plenty of young development players who might have a resale value.
Seems we either never acquired many or brought many through - or have already sold them.
All this for £48m of debt and one season in the Prem. We can't even do big ferkin' debt properly.

Lenners, I don't dispute what our new leader said.

But what i'm asking is do we need to sell to keep our heads above water or do the club just tell us fans that its the only option we have.

My suspicion is that although we have the debts as a result of empire building, we can service them in relative comfort, other wise we'd have a firesale off the pitch as well as on it.

The funny thing is, that if we went into Admin, we'd probably be in a much better position on the pitch, sure we'd lose a couple of players on the cheap, but thats nothing new... The hotel would get sold and probably some other property assets that we have but don't need.

Most of us accept that we're not going up anyway, so 10 points deduction would still keep us above the pigs.

And I'm sure BB and Lenners would be able to put up the £20 to buy us and run us properly. Perhaps Foxy and Linz could sell enough T-Shirts and then sponsor the Shirts

Then we'd be back to square one and all this rubbish that we HAVE to sell players would stop. We could then concentrate on Football... Ah I love my world.

One last thing on the Hotel, the price they charge for beer, they'll pay that loan off in a year

 

[lenners]

The accounts say we have to find £4.5m from somewhere before we kick-off - we are struggling to remain solvent.
We will have to sell more players.
We cannot go into admin because we owe a good half of the cash to the bloke who owns the club and who got us into this situation in the first place.
As for firesale, what does SUFC have to sell? Chengdu? A second division Chinese football club? A hotel on which we owe about £20m? Anything else?

 

[Chingo]

When will the revenue streams ... start creating revenue ?

KM's royaly fcked us up ... AFC Sheffield United anyone ?

 

[Grecian2000]

Its a load of cock. The clubs debtor list and assets are way more than the debt. Its a smokescreen eagerly latched onto by the insider piggies to take the heat off King Pig and his lack of investment success (or any other kind of success really), and joyfully by some of our own 'supporters' who want a stick to beat the club with for their own ends.

I don't quite understand what you're getting at here.

What is a load of cock? The debt? Who is creating the smokescreen?

From what I heard of TB on Rad Sheff, it was him who was talking about our debt and how we had to sell players/reduce wages to cover it.

Is this the load of cock/smokescreen of which you speak? If so, are we not to believe what the top men at the club are saying? Why not? Did we all imagine the sale of our better players/higher earners over the last months?

As for the "supporters" (I'll use the quotes even though I find it particularly offensive to do so) who are beating the club with this stick. Why did "the club" provide the stick in the first place?

 

[alcoblade]

Why not Alco? Because it doesn't suit your argument that we're "heavily in debt"?

I have no doubt that we have large loans and these require repayment.

My question about the worth is a genuine question. Most of us on here accept that the club have fed us spin over the past 5 years, depending upon McCabes's agenda at the time. First and for a long time it was "we're a huge club and we're aiming for Europe etc" and recently that all changed over night with the doom and gloom debt scenario.



Yes ...in your opinion and on the assumption that the ONLY way we can afford to service the loans is through player sales.

But do you know the repayment terms of the Hotel mortgage or McCabe Loans? Does anyone on here?

Do you know if the hotel and other linked services like the Gym etc can service the loan by itself?

Is the "football club" solely responsible for repaying the McCabe loans?

And IF the only way we can service these loans and keep the club running is by selling players for 10 Mil then we're in deep, deep trouble! However, I somehow doubt that this is the case as otherwise we wouldn't still be paying fee's for players like Ched, Cresswell and Yeates.

Debt alone isn't a reason to sell players, but being unable to repay them is!

There was a lower risk to us in keeping at least one of the Kyles, than selling them both. if we'd kept Walker then we'd have only have been in a win win situation. By selling both, its an extremely short sighted view

I explained why not in the subsequent few lines - did you not read that far? I'm not arguing that we're heavily in debt. I'm stating fact. Do you want to support the first £500M rated club in England's third division? Will it make the pain any easier?

Again, assets don't pay the bills - cash does. China, the hotel, the property - are all losing money right now according to the club's own accounts. So where does the cash, to pay the interest on the £50M, come from? Approximately £4.5M required per year, according to the club's own accounts.

I've given you my explanation and reasons why I'm pissed off. You tell me yours and why I shouldn't be?

UTB

 

[Revolution]

The accounts say we have to find £4.5m from somewhere before we kick-off - we are struggling to remain solvent.
We will have to sell more players.
We cannot go into admin because we owe a good half of the cash to the bloke who owns the club and who got us into this situation in the first place.
As for firesale, what does SUFC have to sell? Chengdu? A second division Chinese football club? A hotel on which we owe about £20m? Anything else?

This is the nub of the problem we have now:

- we are heavily in debt and the club do not want to take on more debt
- the man who owns the club will not put in any more funding
- we have to sell more players and cut the wage bill, but no one will bring in any money as we have no very good players anymore
- at present, we seem to have no first team ready youngsters and those we did have were sold quickly
- money raised from sales is not being used for player purchases.
- as most of the debt is owed to the man who owns the club, there will be no "clean slate" via administration (not that I desire this, but it's one way forward)
- our supposedly income generating assets are not currently generating any income

To me this looks like paralysis. In these circumstances there is no prospect of building a good team. We are stuck in this league, or worse, until we have new investment or until we develop/buy good players who are not sold instantly. That scenario looks a long way off.

If someone bet me a grand that United would be in the PL again before 2015, I'd bet against that. We're turning into Coventry.

 

[Maidenhead]

We're turning into Coventry.

I hope so, bring on 40yrs unbroken in the top division :thumbup: