KM on TS

[Rochdaleblade]

Wasn't Kev looking for investors for about ten years. In other words, he wanted a chump to give him some money whilst allowing him to remain in control. During this time lots of clubs who were in my opinion less attractive such as Brentford, Bournemouth, Bristol city and the pigs have been taken over. Forest seem to have had half a dozen owners in this time. He obviously thought that the prince was going to be his patsy, but unfortunately for him he has been outmanoeuvred. His wailing yesterday was pathetic and his claims to be a more suitable owner because he is a lifelong blade were ridiculous. Let's remember,he was the man who thought it was a good idea to appoint Robson (spoiler alert- it wasn't). He appears to want wilder and the fans to stage some sort of revolt against the prince having lost any legal claim. If Kev wants to start a shoes off protest in the car park at the Liverpool game, I suspect that he will be on his own. It seems to be well known that he was intending to sell the club if he won the court case, so his claims about it being necessary to understand the club are complete bobbins. I don't know much about hedge funds,but I do know that they exist to make money, rather than donate it. If Kev wants to waste money on an appeal, that is his business, otherwise he needs to button it and stop attempting to destabilise the club.

 

[Beans]

Was it McCabe who said he was skint? Has the judge mentioned anywhere about wealth? I genuinely don't know.

Depends how you define "skint" really. From the judgement:

 

[FriethBlade]

Yep. Only issue now is where the money will come from. Owner or other outside investment or PL money?
[/QUOTE]
And that's the key question. The danger is he either uses the premiership money or leverages the club up to pay McCabe just like the Glaziers did at.Man.U. The best case.scenario is that now we.are.in the premiership hes got other rich Saudis who want to get onboard.

 

[WorcBlade]

As a person, I like McCabe, I've met him and spoken to him, at length on several occasions, however his stewardship as a football club owner, has been an abject failure. If the McCabe family have invested and lost upwards of £100 million into the club, I struggle to see how he has been successful in business at all? £100 million is a figure mentioned as 'ingoing' but what about 'outgoing' The McCabe family, gave us, one, umderfunded, year in the prem. They then replaced Neil Warnock with 'Bryan Robson' FFS. The McCabe family were then responsible for the longest period of decline since the late 70's Early 80's

The decline, was due to the poor decisions made by the McCabes, not 'Bad Luck' As Blades fans, we have been through the McCabe's 'Bottling it' year after year, selling our best players halfway through the season. Reflect on this, throughout McCabes tenure, the only time, decent money was made available to a Manager was when The Prince threw £10 million in.

The McCabe's have been poor custodians of our great club, using it for their own good, making Managers work on scraps. The McCabe's are successful business men, there is no way they would chuck away £100million based on an emotional attachment to SUFC. Look at the evidence, Hotels and flats built on SUFC land. The McCabes separated the football club from the property etc etc. The McCabes allegedly were worried that the football club would go into administration, separation of the property would keep it away from the auditors in such an event, leaving the football club to carry all of the debts, leaving the McCabes, happy and free with all of the property allegedly.

I'm not saying The Prince will be an ideal owner and I'm not sure he will be around for long. The American buyers, associated with McCabe are interested in talking to The Prince. If they offered £200million + for the club, thats a nice profit on a £15 million outlay, What would you do???

We have a great club, with great and loyal support, my hope is that the long years of mediogrity and failure, under the McCabe's are over.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Depends how you define "skint" really. From the judgement:

View attachment 61436

There is an alarming lack of due diligence that McCabe has displayed where investors are concerned.

He clearly based his view on Prince Abdullah’s wealth on someone else’s description, and on his general assumption that if he’s part of the Saudi Royal family he must be rich.

And then there was the incident in 2011 where a team from Channel 4's Dispatches posed as representatives of Chinese and Indian businessmen trying to buy the club, and where pictured on the pitch, facilitated by Bryan Robson of all people...

 

[Sean Thornton]

There is an alarming lack of due diligence that McCabe has displayed where investors are concerned.

He clearly based his view on Prince Abdullah’s wealth on someone else’s description, and on his general assumption that if he’s part of the Saudi Royal family he must be rich.

And then there was the incident in 2011 where a team from Channel 4's Dispatches posed as representatives of Chinese and Indian businessmen trying to buy the club, and where pictured on the pitch, facilitated by Bryan Robson of all people...

Clearly?

HRH's paper company was worth much more in 2013 and suffered a downturn later. HRH said as much himself. ( I though he also said yesterday he'd divested himself of the business, anyone know for certain?) so this "lack of due diligence" could be just another stick to beat McCabe with. Maybe instead of lawyers, he should have got a crystal ball?

Maybe poor legal advice, poor understanding of that advice and too much self belief are more likely.

 

[Sean Thornton]

As a person, I like McCabe, I've met him and spoken to him, at length on several occasions, however his stewardship as a football club owner, has been an abject failure. If the McCabe family have invested and lost upwards of £100 million into the club, I struggle to see how he has been successful in business at all? £100 million is a figure mentioned as 'ingoing' but what about 'outgoing' The McCabe family, gave us, one, umderfunded, year in the prem. They then replaced Neil Warnock with 'Bryan Robson' FFS. The McCabe family were then responsible for the longest period of decline since the late 70's Early 80's

The decline, was due to the poor decisions made by the McCabes, not 'Bad Luck' As Blades fans, we have been through the McCabe's 'Bottling it' year after year, selling our best players halfway through the season. Reflect on this, throughout McCabes tenure, the only time, decent money was made available to a Manager was when The Prince threw £10 million in.

The McCabe's have been poor custodians of our great club, using it for their own good, making Managers work on scraps. The McCabe's are successful business men, there is no way they would chuck away £100million based on an emotional attachment to SUFC. Look at the evidence, Hotels and flats built on SUFC land. The McCabes separated the football club from the property etc etc. The McCabes allegedly were worried that the football club would go into administration, separation of the property would keep it away from the auditors in such an event, leaving the football club to carry all of the debts, leaving the McCabes, happy and free with all of the property allegedly.

I'm not saying The Prince will be an ideal owner and I'm not sure he will be around for long. The American buyers, associated with McCabe are interested in talking to The Prince. If they offered £200million + for the club, thats a nice profit on a £15 million outlay, What would you do???

We have a great club, with great and loyal support, my hope is that the long years of mediogrity and failure, under the McCabe's are over.

So they took all the properties and left the debts?

Okay......

 

[Snowman]

There is an alarming lack of due diligence that McCabe has displayed where investors are concerned.

He clearly based his view on Prince Abdullah’s wealth on someone else’s description, and on his general assumption that if he’s part of the Saudi Royal family he must be rich.

And then there was the incident in 2011 where a team from Channel 4's Dispatches posed as representatives of Chinese and Indian businessmen trying to buy the club, and where pictured on the pitch, facilitated by Bryan Robson of all people...

Don't forget our Jacob, the Nigerian prince. That was weird!

 

[Sean Thornton]

Don't forget our Jacob, the Nigerian prince. That was weird!

Now that was very odd. Appointed to the board when his UK Plc was being struck off for non filing.

 

[BlairBlade]

It would be a lot more helpful, for all concerned especially himself, if McCabe stopped trying to undermine the club and rock the boat in the way he is by suggesting CW is going to face a struggle to know what to do and the way he implies that the Prince cannot be trusted.
When it comes to trust perhaps McCabe should read Mr Justice Fancourt's opinion of him - Fancourt didn't say that the Prince was "manipulative and devious".

 

[bladeinspaceandtime]

McCabe has got a monk on? Good. He brought this all on himself.

 

[Yoonited]

I'm not sure whether some of what he says is sour grapes, or of cause for concern. Guess we'll find out

What does it say about Kev questioning the Prince's suitability at this juncture,when he agreed a 50/50 split. Naivety then,sour grapes now I suspect. Not much business acumen shown. And what does he mean "My Football Club" Bit rich that. Not handled it very maturely bless him.

 

[8lade]

What I don't get it is, has it really backfired on him. I thought all things considered, he's done ok out of the court case.

He really had no chance of getting Prince's half of the club so the best he probably should really have hoped for was the ruling he got on the Prince buying the ground. He will probably end up with a lot more money for the ground than the original agreement.

But the ground is his property anyway. He wrote off the clubs debt to him in payment for it.

Yes we know it's his property but if the Prince had really got his way, he would be renting it forever. The agreement in the CBA is 40m but I believe and I could be corrected AGAIN, but that price isn't set under the judges instructions, so to be agreed again.

I seem to remember that the rental of the ground is a fairly trivial amount (something like 100k/year) barely worth it for an asset of this nature. If the prince could have got the club for 5m and just keep renting the ground he'd be laughing. Theoretically he can now get the club to buy the ground and still won't incur any personal debt so he's done pretty well all in all.

 

[Woodys Thunderbolt]

My take is that he thought the Prince couldn’t afford to buy the stadium (etc) so would decline the opportunity to counter offer. He wasn’t aware that the Prince had already circumvented the requirement to buy the stadium and was free to make the counter offer without being forced to buy it.

That’s why he made the offer of £5m, not the £10m he was going to offer originally. He thought ‘well he can’t afford the stadium, therefore can’t make a counter offer so I can offer £5m, he’ll have to accept it and I’ve saved myself £5m’.

Apparently McCabe had no money to make the offer it was coming from the Yanks (page 29)

115. Mr Tutton on behalf of SUL objected to the notice calling for an emergency meeting (and its contents). On the same day, he sent revised heads of terms to Mr Pace suggesting that a conference call should take place early the following week to finalise them “as we are keen to trigger the Call Option with UTB LLC as soon as possible”. The revised heads of terms still included a £10 million cash facility, to fund the acquisition of UTB’s shares, and ALK would pay a further £7 million for its 85% holding, fund the club in future, and pay higher rents for the principal property assets with a five-year option to acquire the property assets at an aggregate price of about £66 million, or such other amount as might be agreed.
116. On 17 December 2017, Mr Giansiracusa sent Kevin McCabe a more conciliatory email, suggesting that they ought to be able to work together constructively, but without Kevin McCabe expecting to get his way by using brute force. He expressed a wish to move forward and to discuss and address issues in a mutually respectful way. The email pointed out that the alternative, a trajectory of confrontation, was one in which SUL could expect to see its commercial interests adversely affected in various ways. By way of brief response, Kevin McCabe agreed to speak to Mr Giansiracusa the following day.
117. In the event it appears that they spoke on 20 December 2017. Before then, Kevin McCabe and Mr Tutton had exchanged emails about the tactics for exercising the call option on UTB’s shares. Mr Tutton proposed offering to subscribe under the ISA for £5 million of new capital, to see whether UTB was in a position to offer to match it, to maintain equality. He said: “if they say they can match we know we should just go for the Texas shoot out at our higher end of £10m – If they cannot match we go in at a much lower price”. Kevin McCabe replied stating that it potentially was a wise move

 

[8lade]

I don't understand all the bile towards McCabe's stewardship of the club, almost all managerial appointments were seen by the majority as good ones, from memory the least well received was Blackwell and results wise he wasn't too bad. Even Weir, the worst managerial appointment in our history (results wise) was seen as a decent one given there really wasn't anybody else who seemed to want the job. Regarding not funding Warnock whilst in the Prem; that Warnock wasted money on 'future players' when we needed 'now players' which only needed the narrowest margin of improvement to have saved us.

 

[Hartley Hare]

Yep. Only issue now is where the money will come from. Owner or other outside investment or PL money?
And that's the key question. The danger is he either uses the premiership money or leverages the club up to pay McCabe just like the Glaziers did at.Man.U. The best case.scenario is that now we.are.in the premiership hes got other rich Saudis who want to get onboard.

A point well made Frieth.

On reflection I also have worries over how the new ownership will finance the purchase of the ground and hotel, some £50m has been mentioned.

It would be easy to raise funds against football club assets, and PL income.

Imagine if in a couple of years we are back in the championship, big debts, money all gone and an owner with modest income if accounts are to be believed. Doomsday scenario.

All a bit worrying.

Fine words butter no parsnips Prince Abdullah.

HH

 

[BushBlade]

Apparently McCabe had no money to make the offer it was coming from the Yanks (page 29)

115. Mr Tutton on behalf of SUL objected to the notice calling for an emergency meeting (and its contents). On the same day, he sent revised heads of terms to Mr Pace suggesting that a conference call should take place early the following week to finalise them “as we are keen to trigger the Call Option with UTB LLC as soon as possible”. The revised heads of terms still included a £10 million cash facility, to fund the acquisition of UTB’s shares, and ALK would pay a further £7 million for its 85% holding, fund the club in future, and pay higher rents for the principal property assets with a five-year option to acquire the property assets at an aggregate price of about £66 million, or such other amount as might be agreed.
116. On 17 December 2017, Mr Giansiracusa sent Kevin McCabe a more conciliatory email, suggesting that they ought to be able to work together constructively, but without Kevin McCabe expecting to get his way by using brute force. He expressed a wish to move forward and to discuss and address issues in a mutually respectful way. The email pointed out that the alternative, a trajectory of confrontation, was one in which SUL could expect to see its commercial interests adversely affected in various ways. By way of brief response, Kevin McCabe agreed to speak to Mr Giansiracusa the following day.
117. In the event it appears that they spoke on 20 December 2017. Before then, Kevin McCabe and Mr Tutton had exchanged emails about the tactics for exercising the call option on UTB’s shares. Mr Tutton proposed offering to subscribe under the ISA for £5 million of new capital, to see whether UTB was in a position to offer to match it, to maintain equality. He said: “if they say they can match we know we should just go for the Texas shoot out at our higher end of £10m – If they cannot match we go in at a much lower price”. Kevin McCabe replied stating that it potentially was a wise move

I agree with the second part of your sentence, as you’ve proved it to be factually correct. I’m not convinced KM had no money, he just didn’t want to spend any more of his own.

 

[Yoonited]

It feels like the support for Mcabe is slowly starting to fade, I hope not, I want to remember him for all the good things he has done for the club which far outway the disappointing, I hope the day,and in the near future he comes out onto the pitch to let us all stand and applaud him as a gesture of our appreciation to him and his family, it's the least he deserves.

Think he's shit his potful for that.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Clearly?

Yes. Someone that introduced him to Prince Abdullah described his income as being £20-25m annually when it was nowhere near that, even when his paper company was doing well, and he didn’t bother to do the basic checks to confirm that this was utter rubbish before selling 50% of the club to him. So yes, clearly.

17. In fact, as established by cross-examination and had become apparent in 2015, Prince Abdullah, though rich by any standards, was not as wealthy in income terms as Mr Mollaian had led Kevin McCabe to believe, not as rich as Kevin McCabe assumed that a Saudi prince must be.

 

[Yoonited]

A point well made Frieth.

On reflection I also have worries over how the new ownership will finance the purchase of the ground and hotel, some £50m has been mentioned.

It would be easy to raise funds against football club assets, and PL income.

Imagine if in a couple of years we are back in the championship, big debts, money all gone and an owner with modest income if accounts are to be believed. Doomsday scenario.

All a bit worrying.

Fine words butter no parsnips Prince Abdullah.

HH

Haven't we had enough doomsday? And all while Kev was at the helm. Been plenty of rhetoric without results too. Onwards and upwards we go. Bet Chris is glad it's done and almost dusted.

 

[raul]

A point well made Frieth.

On reflection I also have worries over how the new ownership will finance the purchase of the ground and hotel, some £50m has been mentioned.

It would be easy to raise funds against football club assets, and PL income.

Imagine if in a couple of years we are back in the championship, big debts, money all gone and an owner with modest income if accounts are to be believed. Doomsday scenario.

All a bit worrying.

Fine words butter no parsnips Prince Abdullah.

HH

Maybe we'd just be unlucky again?

 

[8lade]

A point well made Frieth.

On reflection I also have worries over how the new ownership will finance the purchase of the ground and hotel, some £50m has been mentioned.

It would be easy to raise funds against football club assets, and PL income.

Imagine if in a couple of years we are back in the championship, big debts, money all gone and an owner with modest income if accounts are to be believed. Doomsday scenario.

All a bit worrying.

Fine words butter no parsnips Prince Abdullah.

HH

I agree. Less than 10 years ago Bolton were starting their eleventh consecutive season in the top tier, there are very fine lines between success and devastation.

 

[Yoonited]

I think we're all just used to how it's been under McCabe, and were a bit blinkered to the bigger picture?
Thinking about it all, this has always been about money, and McCabe getting ready to stand down and pass the reigns over.
That's the reason the original contract had all these clauses in it, it's just that McCabe thought the Prince had more wealth, and i don't believe he thought we would reach the prem in the time frame he saw.
Obviously being in the prem means alot more money, and looking at the £5m the club will be sold for, as it were, we all know that he's going to be losing out massively this way, as opposed to the yanks buying us out right, and that's got to hurt after putting in so much.
If nothing else we need to embrace the change and pray it goes the way we hope it will.

Pray? We need to start demanding some input. Starting tomorrow night

 

[I should coco]

I agree. Less than 10 years ago Bolton were starting their eleventh consecutive season in the top tier, there are very fine lines between success and devastation.

As we were going up in 2006, the Charlton fans wanted Curbishley out as he'd 'taken them as far as he could' and they fancied Europe.

That worked out well for them too!

 

[BushBlade]

I agree. Less than 10 years ago Bolton were starting their eleventh consecutive season in the top tier, there are very fine lines between success and devastation.

With a debt to their owner of £180m. Which he subsequently wrote off to facilitate the sale of the club. It was the sale that was the problem, or rather, the buyer.

 

[super_pig]

It's entirely - absolutely entirely - of his own doing. His hubris and arrogance have led to him being hoist by his own petard and I find it very difficult to have any sympathy for him. The fact that his humiliation is so public will further his dismay.

as i've posted somewhere else this whole thing reminds me of when Porsche tried to take over VW and it ended up the other way around

 

[Sean Thornton]

Yes. Someone that introduced him to Prince Abdullah described his income as being £20-25m annually when it was nowhere near that, even when his paper company was doing well, and he didn’t bother to do the basic checks to confirm that this was utter rubbish before selling 50% of the club to him. So yes, clearly.

17. In fact, as established by cross-examination and had become apparent in 2015, Prince Abdullah, though rich by any standards, was not as wealthy in income terms as Mr Mollaian had led Kevin McCabe to believe, not as rich as Kevin McCabe assumed that a Saudi prince must be.

Where does that say McCabe did no further due diligence?

HRH said himself on Sky his income from dividends from the company fell drastically after 2013. If it's that clear, how much was he worth ? What was his income from his 40% shareholding? Do you know? On the basis of nothing positive, what's his income now to facilitate the buy out.

I didn't think his income was ever disclosed in the court case.

 

[Davalon]

I've stated in a few places that I appreciate's McCabe's financial input and a lot of his stewardship despite criticising a number of decisions.

I've also always said his true contribution could never be evaluated properly until he left.

Another way to look at this would be to imagine if this was a Wendy or Leeds owner doing identical for them. Would your opinion change based on his achievements?

 

[BushBlade]

I've stated in a few places that I appreciate's McCabe's financial input and a lot of his stewardship despite criticising a number of decisions.

I've also always said his true contribution could never be evaluated properly until he left.

Another way to look at this would be to imagine if this was a Wendy or Leeds owner doing identical for them. Would your opinion change based on his achievements?

I get your point but it’s unfair to say Leeds or Pigs, we can’t be objective about them either. If the pigs had the best owner and manager in the world we’d still call them a pair of twats.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Where does that say McCabe did no further due diligence?

HRH said himself on Sky his income from dividends from the company fell drastically after 2013. If it's that clear, how much was he worth ? What was his income from his 40% shareholding? Do you know? On the basis of nothing positive, what's his income now to facilitate the buy out.

I didn't think his income was ever disclosed in the court case.

This really isn’t splitting hairs over – it would be a remarkable omission of evidence to not include the findings of what would be a thorough due diligence you for some reason seem to think has taken place, and wholly bizarre for this to go unreferenced at any point.

He probably asked Tutton to do it, but he was unfortunately too tired.