Standing or sitting?

[Linz]

Yes, sorry Chingo, I thought this one was too interesting not to debate in an arena where threats of violence and personal abuse are against the rules and will be dealt with harshly

When watching the Blades, either away or at home, would you prefer to stand or sit? And do you mind the people around you standing or sitting?

Personally, there's a difference for me between home and away games mainly due to the people I go to those games with.

For home games, I sit with my Nannan in the South Stand. If I'm not mistaken, her first game was in 1948 and she's watched United all over the place in the intervening years. However, as a lady of advanced experience in life, she's not as nifty on her pins as she once was... and pins describes her legs correctly, seeing as one is held together with titanium. In short, she needs a seat. But she also needs the people in front of her not to be jumping up all the time too, because she just can't stand up quick enough.

Luckily, the people around us are all season ticket holders who have been around years and have a great deal of consideration for those around them. It's a nice area of the ground to sit in and the view's good. So at home matches while I go with my family... definitely sitting down for me. We wouldn't sit in an area where this wasn't the norm.

Away matches on the other hand, it depends. Ideally, I'd like to stand up. Also ideally, it'd be unrestricted seating. There's usually a gang of us, we usually meet up with people we haven't bought tickets with and it's easier to take the piss out of each other when we're mobile

However, I was brought up with some manners. If the people behind me don't want to stand up, then as soon as I can sit down and see, I will do. There might be kids behind me or old people and I have no more right to watch the game than they do.

I also know that standing in seated areas is against regulations in every ground around the country. So if a steward asked me to sit down, I would do. I wouldn't call him a "twat" and get thrown out for it. That's rather silly. It also undermines any possible chance of the fixture having unreserved seating or relaxed stewarding in future.

If they see that they had to throw 50 United fans out last season because they wouldn't do as they were told in accordance with the ground regulations, do you really think the stewards are going to take a laissez-faire attitude towards the kind of behaviour they see as an indication of potential trouble i.e standing up?

But if it's unreserved, we'll head up to the back. And if we can, we usually stand.

So not quite as black and white an argument as some would make it.

What I'd really like to see is a sensible discussion with MPs about the introduction of safe-standing areas, something the Lib Dems once promised to do if they got in power. It would be a protracted process though and not quite as easy as "telling United we wanna stand up".

As we explained to one member (who has chosen to slag us off elsewhere for "failing to support the team") when they suddenly decided that standing up and singing was a revolutionary idea, there is a wrong way and a right way to go about it.

The right way would be to sensibly and eloquently argue your case with the people who could make a difference while geeing up support as a whole, bending the rules on standing if you are allowed.

The wrong way would be to upset your fellow fans by calling them names, declaring that they aren't proper fans because they don't adhere to this very limited view of what a fan is and making a nuisance of yourself to stewards, ensuring that you get thrown out of the ground and miss part of the game. This endears you to no one and brings about no long term change as no MP wants to take up the cause for trouble-makers.

As a final point, I put this to you: who is more of a fan?

Someone who sits and watches their team for the full 90 minutes?

Or someone who gets thrown out after 20 because they can't behave?

I await your views with interest

 

[Wards]

Home games - Sit. I pay good money for a decent view!

Away - Stand. In fact I don't mind either, but not a mixture of the two. Nowt worse than having some goon sat in front who's up and down every 2 minutes. If we're going to stand, just stand all game!

I'd also point out I wouldn't stand up if there were kids behind me, I used to suffer from this when sitting on the kop.

Oh and as for some of the stuff on Bladesmad - it's just cringeworthy and the definition of a p*ssing contest.

To me, you're a Blade like any other once you've passed through the turnstile, singing or not. No-one should be barracked because they're not dancing and shouting all game.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

It's simple really. Standing is the ideal and I'd vote for the re-introduction of terracing at every opportunity.

However, as the current situation is all-seater then abide by the rules when asked to do so. I prefer to stand and whenever I can I do even if it means falling over seats sometimes, as Delia, Foxy, Keenzy et al will testify. But if that makes for someone behind me not seeing as they prefer to sit, then i will sit. If stewards say sit, then I will sit as that is the rule and at the moment being allowed to stand is nothing more than a privilege not a right (do you get that all you real fans?).

Convincing the authorities that decide these things that standing is not only safe, but doesn't generate trouble is something that really will take some doing. Hillsborough, Heysel and a good few other tragedies have contributed to all grounds being as they are now. With no real further incidents since grounds went all-seater, coupled with a significant drop in violence/trouble within grounds at the same time, justifying being allowed to stand is extremely difficult. Behaving like a waste of skin when told to abide by the rules just strengthens the all-seater case.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

On the occasions I go and watch Fleetwood (Conference looms by the way !) it's like a blast from the past. The 'die-hards' switch ends at half time to go behind the goal they're attacking, there's terracing, barriers, you can move about, talk to whoever you want and it's a really good atmosphere. I'm not saying I'd like to stand all the time but it's great to be able to.

 

[Coily]

I've had a read through the thread on BladesMad and had to laugh. The main point seems to boil down to the perception that you have to stand to create an atmosphere. And it might be true to be fair, it's a lot easier that's for sure.

Where some of the yoot on there fall down though is that they can't see any other way of supporting the team bar their own. For them in the main it's stand up and shout and swear after a good few pints which was no problem on terracing, the rowdies went to the back, those who wanted to support in their own way stood elsewhere on the terrace. Now though, if you are in allocated seats you have to consider everyone around you. Away from home that's not usually a problem as Linz says and you can arrange yourselves, but of course Saturday will be different and what you'll find is these kids moaning about "part-timers" who don't support the team because they don't do as they do. You'll then find arguments break out if folk do as they please with no consideration for other fans.

Perhaps they should spend less time whining about lack of support and actually support the team themselves. Let's be fair, the atmosphere at games is shit mostly and those at the back stand all game so they have no excuse.

 

[Bramley]

I think give people the option, it works in Germany and the atmosphere is a lot more fanatical over there.

 

[Linz]

...but of course Saturday will be different and what you'll find is these kids moaning about "part-timers" who don't support the team because they don't do as they do.

Yeah, I find their arguments somewhat contradictory at times. We want a good showing of support away from home but non of them "part-timers". Erm... whut?

There's about a couple of hundred people who are the hardcore of United's away support (and much to the chagrin of some, this includes quite a few wimmin! OMG!) and everyone else comes and goes as they can.

It'd be a bit daft only selling the tickets to those 200 people... especially seeing as the loyalty points scheme ensures that those hardcore who do want tickets can get them straight away, meaning the "part-timers" have little bearing on the hardcore's ability to support.

GC88 who was the one we were having a fairly good conversation with. It did become blindingly obvious that he wasn't listening to a word we were saying though and he then proceeded to say that no-one on this forum (as a whole?) supports the club in his diatribes elsewhere.

I find this interesting, as I have missed very few games this season, and know of quite a lot of people on here who haven't missed a game at all. Yet because they are willing to abide by the rules, this somehow makes them lesser fans than people who will cause arguments just for their perceived right to stand up.

And while this is the case, I have very little sympathy for those thrown out.

Support Standing areas not Selfish Sods!

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Sit Daaaarrnnnnnn,

God our supports crap, Women/families shouldn't be allowed to go, etc etc etc,

Surely it isn't beyond the wit of these guys to get together (facebook anyone) and book their tickets collectively at the back of a particular stand.

Therefore not getting in anyones way, ensuring they are all together and let them do whatever funky shit they want.

 

[Grecian2000]

Before all seater stadia became the norm I wouldn't have dreamed of sitting (except at places like Notts County/Oxford where the standing view was appalling) but now it is the norm and it's fine by me.

It always astounds me that some people are incapable of shouting or singing without standing up and having their arms spread out wide. Have they got a problem with their vocal chords that is released by this technique?

I sit in an area of the Kop where we are up and down like a newlyweds nightie when we attack. That's not a problem for me but it was for my Dad when he attended his last ever match with me because his knees were shot and by the time he could get up everyone else was on their way back down. When I get to that stage I will shift to somewhere more practical.

 

[Santos]

Sit Daaaarrnnnnnn,

God our supports crap, Women/families shouldn't be allowed to go, etc etc etc,

Surely it isn't beyond the wit of these guys to get together (facebook anyone) and book their tickets collectively at the back of a particular stand.

Therefore not getting in anyones way, ensuring they are all together and let them do whatever funky shit they want.

I think that is being a bit ambitious...

 

[Linz]

I'm at a bit of a loss as to why the views of Ched Evans and his brother are pertinent in this discussion...

 

[LouTheBlade]

Home - Sit. After paying £400+ for a season ticket I expect comfort and a decent view with ignorant twats in front sat down for the benefit of children behind them.

Away - Stand. Gives the atmosphere that little extra edge. Also we're normally behind a goal so its pointless trying to sit down half the time. Every time we attack toward the goal we're sitting behind we will all naturally stand up.

I used to love the atmosphere on the Bramall Lane Kop but I havent sat there for donkey's years purely because every fucker stands up when we are attacking that end. I was 11 at the time and couldnt see fuck all!

 

[moDtheGod]

Haha, that's a good spot Linz. Definitely a look of Ched about them.

 

[NN6]

If mass standing were re introduced it would be dangerous and here is why. A lot of people going to matches nowadays haven't experienced terraces. Those of us who grew up with them learnt from a young age and often the hard way about where to stand, where the barriers are, how to react etc.

Can you imagine the kop being all standing again, the first massive surge as Hendo heads one just over would likely result in broken bones and people with no idea about what was about to happen trampled under foot!!

We may as well accept there is no chance of standing en masse coming back. The authorities won't let it and the clubs don't want it. Admission prices would have to go down and the police would find it much more difficult both to identify and apprehend trouble makers.

 

[SwissBlade]

Home - Sit

Away - Sitting area, but i prefer it when we're allowed to stand up. I wouldn't want to go back to terracing. I went to a match in Germany recently FC1 Union Berlin v Cottbus, hoping to get all nostalgic about standing, but I didn't enjoy the terracing. almost 3/4 of the ground were standing and we were on the South Stand equiv.

Oh and if we ever think that because Germany allow standing areas it'd work in England... no it wouldn't. There were no surges and when they scored they jumped on their own step.

Most people had been drinking but the key was that although there were a few skinhead Nazi's causing trouble with the police, the rest of the fans just acted responsibly.

Considering we're so similar to the Germans, they act in a very Safety concious manner

 

[Chingo]

Cheers Linz the blood pressure has only just gone down from "discussing" it with the thick ***** over there

Bring back the terracing in an ideal world but the people in the said thread cannot see how inconsiderate they are being , kids and older people just cant see because of them ... and they don't care !

I have an old football injury (ankle ligaments) and if I stand for a long time its very painfull but bearable , usually there is spare seats to move to but there won't be any on Saturday ... and if my seat is behind the Ultras I'm in for a painfull afternoon.

 

[S64 Blade]

I prefer to stand both home and away. I'd like to see the re-introduction of standing in certain sections of a ground. That way, the people who want to stand can, those who don't can still sit down.

One thing that has annoyed me about the standing situation is when there has been a large percentage of the stand stood up directly in front of you and behind you, so you stand up also, yet one person behind you complains about you standing up. This happened at Hillsborough a few years ago - all the top tier was stood up, and a fella behind us asked us to sit down! We ended up going to stand in the aisle.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Standing all the way. Used to it at non-league level and cant abide sitting at games!! At the first england game at wembley i stood at the back of the first tier with just a wall behind me and they asked me to sit down!? Mental.

I dont get to as many games as i would like too but i do a mix of sit/stand in the evo corner. Tend to stand up at the back by the toilets! Stewards dont stop people.

 

[shorehamview]

We've had this debate before. The Germans are the prime example of standing at its very best - look at Dortmund's stadium and weep. It's fantastic. As far as what I like, it's down to the fact that my back really plays up, as the result of a man playing dodgems with his car and mine some years ago. So standing is okay for a short while, but unless I've had enough painkillers and anti-inflammatory drugs to knock out a rhino then sitting down please. You can always jump up at the exciting bits anyway.

 

[beightonblade]

sum of the shite i've seen yer wud be better flat out havin a kip !

 

[WorkingtonBlade]

For me it's stand - home and away. I stand at the back of the Kop for home games, and stand whenever possible away, unless the people behind me wish to sit down, or the Stewards tell me to sit down.

I accept it's pretty much impossible that we'll ever be allowed 'safe standing' as in Germany. The reason is purely political, and nothing to do with safety (people have 'forgotten how to stand up' - really?!?!) but it's pretty much insurmountable.

What could, very easily, be done, is for the club to split every batch of away tickets into 'front' and 'back' and invite people to choose. Those who wish to stand (obviously that bit couldn't be officially specified!), sing etc can choose 'back'. Those who wish to sit, and are looking for a more 'family' atmosphere choose 'front'.

That way there are no issues with people standing in front of people who wish to sit, and the police don't have to worry about not knowing where people are (as with unreserved seating).

Flatulent Bob says above "Surely it isn't beyond the wit of these guys to get together (facebook anyone) and book their tickets collectively at the back of a particular stand."

Actually, it's beyond the wit of anyone, because the club are having none of it. They won't let you specify that you want to be at the back of a stand - you will have the next ticket in the book, and like it. I know, because I have asked for years of postal application for a ticket at the back, and the request is consistently ignored. With this policy, the club cause a lot of the problems at away games.

The 'Ultras' did try to engage with the club to arrange to have tickets at the back of the stand at away games, but again, the club weren't interested in assisting. That is why we got to where we are now. A shame, because it's so easy to solve.

 

[Casper]

no question at all.... stand stand stand stand stand.

I actually feel sorry for the youngsters today who dont even remember standing areas. The kop on a cold crisp Tuesday night in the 70's was fantastic. Not so brill for most of the 80s mind lol - it was that sparse we could have frozen to death!

These days though, unfortunately we dont really have a choice, do we. I'll stand if i can but if people behind me want to sit, then not a problem, when the people in front of me have sat down, then i do.

Its not the same

 

[bartman]

no question at all.... stand stand stand stand stand.

I actually feel sorry for the youngsters today who dont even remember standing areas. The kop on a cold crisp Tuesday night in the 70's was fantastic. Not so brill for most of the 80s mind lol - it was that sparse we could have frozen to death!

These days though, unfortunately we dont really have a choice, do we. I'll stand if i can but if people behind me want to sit, then not a problem, when the people in front of me have sat down, then i do.

Its not the same

It is easy to remember the good times when there was terracing but were they aways that good?.

However,I went to numerous home games where you could almost here a pin drop on the Kop with poor matches and low crowds. I particularly remember an opening home game of the season against Bournemouth,lost one nil (Leaning in goal?) where it was akin to a library. Many games were like this during the 70s and 80s .

I addition,the Kop had a leaking roof..if it was full,you got people pissing down your leg,surges meant you could get trampled under foot or crushed on a crash barrier.'Safe' standing would prevent this ?

Away from home,the 'good old days' games us trapped in a cage in a corner of St Andrews(opposite where the away end is now),getting drenched or freezing to death on Oxford or Port Vales open terracing or being bored on soleless old away ends at Fellows Park or the Goldstone Ground.

The atmosphere is created by fans and how well we are playing not standing or sitting, (at Preston in the play off semi last season being a prime example. ) Most fans were sat in the semi against Arsenal but I remember the atmosphere being good.

In the 70s/80s it was many fans choice to actually sit down when this was an option.Still a roucous atmosphere(Leeds Road,Filbert Street and particular Gigg Lane where the stand was rocking when Edwards scored that last minute equaliser)

Doesn't bother me if I stand or sit,but fans should show respect to others who want to sit(could ask them to swap seats).We ar all a big a Blade as each other

Legalise terracing ? would be a novelty for a few games,prices wouldn't reduce and there would be little change in the atmosphere.Peterborugh away this season will bring back some great memories but if we are not playing well,the atmosphere on the terrace will be the same as that on the seats

 

[Linz]

What could, very easily, be done, is for the club to split every batch of away tickets into 'front' and 'back' and invite people to choose. Those who wish to stand (obviously that bit couldn't be officially specified!), sing etc can choose 'back'. Those who wish to sit, and are looking for a more 'family' atmosphere choose 'front'.

The problem with that is that by doing it, Sheffield United would be implicitly telling you that it's alright to stand at the back of the seated areas of other clubs' grounds. Can you understand why they don't want to do this seeing as it's against ground regulations all over the country and could have an affect on that particular club's safety certificate?

You say that the club cause problems at away games. No they don't. The fans cause problems at away games. You don't take into consideration the fact that Watford or Preston or whoever might have specified how Sheffield United sell the tickets... i.e. next in in the book.

There'd be a lot of ill-will towards Sheffield United as a club if they were seen to be encouraging standing at away grounds. But some people are happy not to look beyond "the club want to spoil our fun". Like I said to my young friend before, it isn't Sheffield United you or they would need to lobby... it's the legislators who set the rules in the first place.

I'm all for standing... but I'm not for causing difficulties for people whose hands are tied. Like Sheffield United. Or stewards.

Also, a lot of people, whether they want to stand or not, would prefer not to be sat at the front of the stand... seeing as at the majority of grounds, the first four levels of seating are often below pitch level! Again, what gives people the right to dictate that because they want to stand, they also get the best views?

As for the final part about standing... apart from Cardiff, I think the last time I stood for a league game was at Colchester in 2006/07. The atmosphere was bobbins. So standing doesn't always equal singing. And the least said about Shrewsbury in the cup, the better

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Flatulent Bob says above "Surely it isn't beyond the wit of these guys to get together (facebook anyone) and book their tickets collectively at the back of a particular stand."

Actually, it's beyond the wit of anyone, because the club are having none of it. They won't let you specify that you want to be at the back of a stand - you will have the next ticket in the book, and like it. I know, because I have asked for years of postal application for a ticket at the back, and the request is consistently ignored. With this policy, the club cause a lot of the problems at away games.

The 'Ultras' did try to engage with the club to arrange to have tickets at the back of the stand at away games, but again, the club weren't interested in assisting. That is why we got to where we are now. A shame, because it's so easy to solve.

Well that's odd because I get to choose my seat for all the matches this season. Not got a season ticket because I didn't know if my daughter would keep wanting to go so I book each match individually and unless we have decided to sit in another stand I have the same seats every match in the South stand.
My niece and family book theirs and they also get the row in front of us every match.

 

[BarcaBlade]

The atmosphere is created by fans and how well we are playing not standing or sitting

I'd contest that it is easier to create an atmosphere when standing.

Of course if fans don't do anything, there will not be an atmosphere, but when you can stand where you want, it enables people to get to the place they are comfortable so it's easier to ensure that everybody can find their 'level' so to speak.

You like to stand and shout and sing, bang yourself in the centre. You like to stand, but only like one or two of the songs and find it a bit crude, place yourself in an outer ring. You like to sit and hate inconsiderate people blocking your view, go sit in the stands. Simple.

Last time I was at BDTBL, I felt a right prat trying to join in the singing half way down the kop when nobody else wanted to join in. After about half an hour I went up the back and squeezed myself in there. Stood all game, shouted and sang all game, enjoyed it much more without getting in anybody's way and contributed more to the atmosphere than if I had stayed in my allocated seat.

Also, in response to whoever it was who stated you can sing and shout just as well sitting down, I'd disagree with that on two counts. Firstly, it's not true. You don't see Pavarotti belting out a tune from his armchair. Picture a church choir: are they sitting or standing.
Secondly, a good atmosphere is when the whole ground is abuzz. You can feel the ripple round the stands. This does need something to be happening on the pitch, but in the absence of something happening on the pitch, something happening in the stands can also help trigger an atmosphere.

If three guys sing a song at the back of the kop, very few people will hear them. If they are arms wide above their head, everyone else in the stadium even on teh BL upper can see that there's a song going on. Those in the John Street stand or elsewhere are more likely to join in a chant if they can hear it, and they are more likely to hear it if they can see it. A song has a far greater chance of having 'legs' if people can see it. Look at the kop at St Pauli/AC Milan/Bohemians 1905 - there is effectively a conductor there.

I go to 95% of all Bohemians 1905 games, home and away. Always stand (Czech 1st Division is all seater, but nobody cares), always sing, always enjoy the atmosphere and typically enjoy a beer or few on the terraces. It's painful coming back to Bramall Lane as I had such great memories of good atmosphere there. I used to rib my Barca mate about how crap the Camp Nou was compared to BDTBL, but that is no longer true.

Don't fear though everybody, I'll be there to create some armosphere at the Bristol City game (assuming we get knocked out of the cup). If somebody could get me a ticket for the Forest game before it sells out, I'll be there too

 

[Bramley]

I think making a terraced area all-ticket would stop any issues of surging/overcrowding, as would the physical structure of safe-terracing. It should be a choice because there's obviously a demand for this type of facility and it can be managed in a safe way.

For the record, if I was on the beer with the lads I'd be straight on the terrace - the atmosphere is better, if not and I was with family I'd probably take the seat. I don't see the problem in people having that choice available to make beyond financial investment in infrastructure in the ground.

This links back to the post a few week ago I made, the sterility of football grounds is one of the reasons I'm so despondent about watching football generally these days. Generally I avoid hanging around with miserable whingers in all walks of life - take away the atmosphere and that's all your left with at BDBTL! ;o) When you go to a Rugby League game, pay a reasonable price and stand on the terrace with a decent atmosphere it makes you realise it can be implemented in football.

 

[Casper]

It is easy to remember the good times when there was terracing but were they aways that good?.

However,I went to numerous home games where you could almost here a pin drop on the Kop with poor matches and low crowds. I particularly remember an opening home game of the season against Bournemouth,lost one nil (Leaning in goal?) where it was akin to a library. Many games were like this during the 70s and 80s .

I addition,the Kop had a leaking roof..if it was full,you got people pissing down your leg,surges meant you could get trampled under foot or crushed on a crash barrier.'Safe' standing would prevent this ?

Away from home,the 'good old days' games us trapped in a cage in a corner of St Andrews(opposite where the away end is now),getting drenched or freezing to death on Oxford or Port Vales open terracing or being bored on soleless old away ends at Fellows Park or the Goldstone Ground.

The atmosphere is created by fans and how well we are playing not standing or sitting, (at Preston in the play off semi last season being a prime example. ) Most fans were sat in the semi against Arsenal but I remember the atmosphere being good.

In the 70s/80s it was many fans choice to actually sit down when this was an option.Still a roucous atmosphere(Leeds Road,Filbert Street and particular Gigg Lane where the stand was rocking when Edwards scored that last minute equaliser)

Doesn't bother me if I stand or sit,but fans should show respect to others who want to sit(could ask them to swap seats).We ar all a big a Blade as each other

Legalise terracing ? would be a novelty for a few games,prices wouldn't reduce and there would be little change in the atmosphere.Peterborugh away this season will bring back some great memories but if we are not playing well,the atmosphere on the terrace will be the same as that on the seats

I know, but i used to love the surges and tramples under foot

One that springs to mind is when Gary Hamson scored and we beat Liverpool 1-0 in the league cup (1978?) when i eventually picked myself up off the floor i must have been 15 yards further down the kop from where i started!

Cant say anybody ever pissed down my leg though lol - perhaps it did happen to some people - but i think this particular belief is a bit of an urban myth.

 

[Grecian2000]

Cant say anybody ever pissed down my leg though lol - perhaps it did happen to some people - but i think this particular belief is a bit of an urban myth.

Too right. Spent many years at the back or in the middle of the Kop and not so much as a spec of piss ever poluted my clothing (apart from when I used to get excited but that's another tale altogether . . . ).

 

[Pinchy]

Cheers Linz the blood pressure has only just gone down from "discussing" it with the thick ***** over there

Bring back the terracing in an ideal world but the people in the said thread cannot see how inconsiderate they are being , kids and older people just cant see because of them ... and they don't care !

I have an old football injury (ankle ligaments) and if I stand for a long time its very painfull but bearable , usually there is spare seats to move to but there won't be any on Saturday ... and if my seat is behind the Ultras I'm in for a painfull afternoon.

Have I missed something? Have you resigned from the teenage illiterate lager drinkers site?

Please don't bring their standards with you.