Tevez, Mascherano & West Ham: A Story of TPO

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8lade said:
Either of Wigan or Sheffield United would have been considerably less shit if we'd had Tevez and Mascherano on our books.
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Mascherano had the square root of fanny adams effect on us that season, Tevez obviously more so, but after drawing with Charlton, beating West Ham at BDTBL, followed by 3 points against a god awful Watford side and only a point needed against Wigan that should’ve been that.

Let’s not play the victim here. As much as I appreciate the work of NW, for the most part he bought utter garbage that season, and was too cautious away from home, despite this we still managed in true Utd fashion to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
 
I'm not presenting anything here but the facts.
 
As an aside, whichever forum I posted on at the time most posters at the beginning of the season were congratulatory of West Ham for pulling off what was seen to be an amazing coup with the double signing.
 
Pointless argument after all this time.

Yeah you do wonder if the PL would have treated us the same if we'd had the TPO issue. However they were banking on West Ham going down imho.

We definitely had bad luck, especially with so many key refereeing decisions going against us and maybe only one for us at Watford.

But Warnock neshed too many away games, bought poorly in January, and took the eye off the ball against Villa.

Needing a draw in the last game was the worst case scenario for a manager like him. We'd have been better needing to win by 2 clear goals.

Getting 38 points and going down by 1 goal scored isn't to be sniffed at but we missed at least 3 penalties that season remember.

We also wasted the advantage of the compensation money ultimately even though it went to Santander.
 
Nicolaus_Copernicus said:
A good video, but when you strip away the emotion, we went down because we couldn’t get a point against Wigan at home. Who were shit. The Tevez affair should’ve been no more that an interesting irrelevancy to us, not the defining issue.
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This is a ridiculous argument. The only thing that would have changed is that Wigan would have been the team relegated and ultimately effected by West Ham's cheating. They'd have then sued West Ham, and years later, presumably, someone on their message board would have popped up and said "we only went down because we couldn’t get a win against Sheffield United".

It's a logical fallacy. West Ham cheated. The players were owned by third parties. Third party ownership was banned in the Premier League. West Ham knew this, and registered them anyway. The players were instrumental in keeping West Ham up. Even if we'd beat Wigan, another team (Wigan) would have been unfairly relegated because West Ham had cheated. So IT IS the defining issue.
 
Whilst it might have been the wigan game that sent us down, it was the away game vs Villa before this that screwed us over.

We were absolutely garbage and defended from the first minute hoping to keep the score down. In the end we got pummeled. Had we only lost 1/2 - 0, we'd have stayed up.
 
Scooter_mcgavin said:
Whilst it might have been the wigan game that sent us down, it was the away game vs Villa before this that screwed us over.

We were absolutely garbage and defended from the first minute hoping to keep the score down. In the end we got pummeled. Had we only lost 1/2 - 0, we'd have stayed up.
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Don’t know if my memory has gone funny but I’m sure Warnock was smiling and joking
in the post match interview after the big defeat to Villa, as though it didn’t really matter....because we were as good as safe anyway.

Regards the Tevez situation it was all very unfortunate but shit happens.
West Ham cheater (and tried to cover it up during the investigation).
Normally the PL would give a points deduction but this would have been no punishment because WH were basically relegated anyway.
Think WH were about 12 points adrift with 10 matches to go, they needed to win at least 8 of their last 10 matches to stand a chance.

The PL tried to do what’s best for the league, they knew they were realistically relegated, so gave them a massive fine instead.
No one complained at the time because we all knew WH would all of a sudden start to on a fantastic winning streak.

But incredibly I think they won 9 out of their last 10 league matches
And even managed to win away to top of the league Man United.

Basically the only way WH would escape relegation is if a miracle happened
And to the PL embarrassment, that unlikely miracle did happen, so after the event, it seems an injustice.
 
We’ve moved on from it now. But it doesn’t change the fact that as much as some like to pin the blame on Warnock, West Ham cheated and we were the ones to suffer for it. Makes me pretty sick that some go as far to back them in the debate.
 
Nicolaus_Copernicus said:
A good video, but when you strip away the emotion, we went down because we couldn’t get a point against Wigan at home. Who were shit. The Tevez affair should’ve been no more that an interesting irrelevancy to us, not the defining issue.
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It may not have been the defining issue in us being relegated, but it certainly was a defining issue in West Ham staying up.
 



Scooter_mcgavin said:
Whilst it might have been the wigan game that sent us down, it was the away game vs Villa before this that screwed us over.

We were absolutely garbage and defended from the first minute hoping to keep the score down. In the end we got pummeled. Had we only lost 1/2 - 0, we'd have stayed up.
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100% agree. It was after the Villa game that I started to have major concerns.
 
West Ham cheated and over the course of the season gained an unfair advantage over us.

Yes, on the final day of the season our destiny was in our own hands in as much as if we'd beaten Wigan anything West Ham did would not have mattered to us. But it would have mattered to Wigan. We couldn't both win that final game.

What West Ham did is no different from Ben Johnson winning the 1988 100 Meters Olympic gold medal by cheating. He enhanced his performance by using a substance that he was not allowed to use. Just as West Ham tried to enhance their on field performances by using players that they were not allowed (under the rules of the league) to use. Should Johnson have been allowed to retain his position as Olympic champion?

Not only that, the timing of the league's decision not to dock points from West Ham came just before they were due to play Wigan. In my view that gave them a big boost for that game and totally deflated Wigan.

To my mind we finished 17th out of 19 clubs who were playing by the rules. One side chose to play outside of the league rules and in so doing disadvantaged all those sides competing in the same area of the league table as them.
 
Flawed said:
This is a ridiculous argument. The only thing that would have changed is that Wigan would have been the team relegated and ultimately effected by West Ham's cheating. They'd have then sued West Ham, and years later, presumably, someone on their message board would have popped up and said "we only went down because we couldn’t get a win against Sheffield United".

It's a logical fallacy. West Ham cheated. The players were owned by third parties. Third party ownership was banned in the Premier League. West Ham knew this, and registered them anyway. The players were instrumental in keeping West Ham up. Even if we'd beat Wigan, another team (Wigan) would have been unfairly relegated because West Ham had cheated. So IT IS the defining issue.
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The part that never gets mentioned now is that even after the Premier League found them guilty of registering the players illegally, they then conspired with West Ham to allow Tevez to continue playing. By rights his contract with West Ham should have been declared null and void and he shouldn't even have been playing for the last few matches when he did all the damage.


  • Independent Arbitration (26th Sep 08):-
    “It is beyond question that, even on his own account, Mr Duxbury was guilty of seriously misleading the Premier League”.
    “Mr Duxbury told a deliberate falsehood citing in support his position as a solicitor and officer of the Court”.
    “Mr Aldridge told the Chief Executive of the Premier League that there was no documentation relating to the transfer of the players other than what had already been disclosed to the Premier League. This was untrue”
    “In evidence Mr Duxbury maintained that he had told Mr Foster of the Premier League that the amendment had not yet been executed and accordingly was not in force. We are unable to accept the accuracy of that evidence.”
    “Mr Duxbury gave “words of comfort” and “oral cuddles” that West Ham would in fact honour the private agreement despite the notice of termination which West Ham had been unwillingly compelled to give by the Premier League”
    “Mr Duxbury acknowledged that West Ham was most anxious to ensure that Mr Tevez did in fact play for West Ham in the last games of the season and did not want to upset the rights owners.”
    “Despite the stance taken by West Ham about the private agreement being unenforceable in law, West Ham never seem to have raised such a point in the discussions with Mr Shear and Mr Joorabchian.”
    “If the Premier League had known what Mr Duxbury for West Ham was saying to Mr Joorabchian’s solicitor following the Commission decision, we are confident that the Premier League would have suspended Mr Tevez’s registration as a West Ham player.”
    “It is indisputable but that the breaches of the Rules caused Mr Tevez to be registered as a West Ham player. If West Ham had acted honestly towards the Premier League, Mr Tevez would not have been a West Ham player for the 2006-7 season”
    “We do consider that West Ham was in breach of its duty to behave with the utmost good faith towards the Premier League”

West Ham and Duxbury were never punished for continuing to flout the rules long after the original tribunal had found them guilty.
 
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we played a man utd chasing the title lost 2-0
west ham played a man utd side resting players for a cup final
never forgive man utd for sending out a sub standard team

but the fact remained west ham lied about their players registration from the start
and lied again at the hearing saying theyd sorted it
when they had not

and they say cheats dont prosper
a fine was risible
in every other case in football in cup competitions had been ejected from the competition eg chester
and in league points docked
 
Flawed said:
This is a ridiculous argument. The only thing that would have changed is that Wigan would have been the team relegated and ultimately effected by West Ham's cheating. They'd have then sued West Ham, and years later, presumably, someone on their message board would have popped up and said "we only went down because we couldn’t get a win against Sheffield United".

It's a logical fallacy. West Ham cheated. The players were owned by third parties. Third party ownership was banned in the Premier League. West Ham knew this, and registered them anyway. The players were instrumental in keeping West Ham up. Even if we'd beat Wigan, another team (Wigan) would have been unfairly relegated because West Ham had cheated. So IT IS the defining issue.
Click to expand...

The defining issue for us as opposed the season as a whole.

In essence you're agreeing with me. We should've done the business against a bang average Wigan side. Whoever then went down would've been none of our business. I wouldn't be giving two shakes of a lamb's tail if it had then affected Wigan. West Ham's cheating should've only had an impact on the 3rd worse team that season, my point is it shouldn't have been us. :)
 
I looked at the fixture list in the final run-in and saw that West Ham were playing Man Utd in the last match. Knowing the circumstances I had a really bad feeling about that. Without question, Man Utd would have stuffed them if they'd needed any more points or they weren't in the bleedin' Cup Final the following Saturday. Don't try to say we weren't stuffed one way or another 'cause we were.
 
Nicolaus_Copernicus said:
A good video, but when you strip away the emotion, we went down because we couldn’t get a point against Wigan at home. Who were shit. The Tevez affair should’ve been no more that an interesting irrelevancy to us, not the defining issue.
Click to expand...
I think we went down because of a ridiculous penalty decision at the start of the season, for 'intent', no contact. Has a penalty ever been given for the same reason before or since?!
I would love it if we beat Liverpool this season, cheating barstewards.
 
Flawed said:
This is a ridiculous argument. The only thing that would have changed is that Wigan would have been the team relegated and ultimately effected by West Ham's cheating. They'd have then sued West Ham, and years later, presumably, someone on their message board would have popped up and said "we only went down because we couldn’t get a win against Sheffield United".

It's a logical fallacy. West Ham cheated. The players were owned by third parties. Third party ownership was banned in the Premier League. West Ham knew this, and registered them anyway. The players were instrumental in keeping West Ham up. Even if we'd beat Wigan, another team (Wigan) would have been unfairly relegated because West Ham had cheated. So IT IS the defining issue.
Click to expand...



The thing that most of the dopey West Ham fans won't recognise is that they were fined £5.5 million a month or so before the end of the season and told to rectify the contracts and ownership if they wanted the players to continue to play. Lenient beyond words in the first place, but ok, we could all get on with it.

They then told the PL that they had eliminated the offending ownership and contracts

The PL never asked for evidence of this

West Ham kept playing them under third party ownership, a blatant 2nd offence that was tantamount to outright cheating

Both of them, West Ham and the PL conspired to sweep this under the carpet. The PL believing they'd get relegated and it wouldn't matter anyway, and West Ham because their cheating cockney wankers, same as their spiv fans.
 
Love it. People will use this subject to get on their high horse to justify their loathing of NW, regardless of the fact that he'd got us to the PL twelve months before all this went wrong for the club.

Yes,we should have won more games and yes, maybe tactically the team were short changed by Warnock's naivety. Other things transpired that season to fuck us a new one though and when you consider Styles's fucking craven idiocy in awarding a penalty that never was (2 points), the strangely disallowed Del Geary goal vs the Cockney fuckers (1 point - ref: Mike fucking Riley) the injury to Hulse (even a pessimistic forecast is 3 points) and the fiasco with already champions-elect MUFC and the Cockney fuckers (again) there was all the stars ranged against us. The pain of having all that happening was exacerbated by the pathetic efforts of the PL and FA to avoid the issue until MCabe took the matter to arbitration. And let's face it - has relegation cost United £20m? Has it fuck. times that by ten,maybe more when you count lost gate revenue, sold players and our overall earnings as a club since we dropped and dropped again.

People can whine about Warnock all they want but the findings that WHU profited by a relegation-avoiding measure of points with those two and the nefarious dealings of some shysters cashing in (because no one has addressed how much money was made by the owners and third parties, have they?) spell out what a shitty deal we were served by WHU and the PL.

And Ferguson and the whole Man U team can cunt off as well.

I hope we fucking dick WHU this season.

pommpey
 
pommpey said:
Love it. People will use this subject to get on their high horse to justify their loathing of NW, regardless of the fact that he'd got us to the PL twelve months before all this went wrong for the club.

Yes,we should have won more games and yes, maybe tactically the team were short changed by Warnock's naivety. Other things transpired that season to fuck us a new one though and when you consider Styles's fucking craven idiocy in awarding a penalty that never was (2 points), the strangely disallowed Del Geary goal vs the Cockney fuckers (1 point - ref: Mike fucking Riley) the injury to Hulse (even a pessimistic forecast is 3 points) and the fiasco with already champions-elect MUFC and the Cockney fuckers (again) there was all the stars ranged against us. The pain of having all that happening was exacerbated by the pathetic efforts of the PL and FA to avoid the issue until MCabe took the matter to arbitration. And let's face it - has relegation cost United £20m? Has it fuck. times that by ten,maybe more when you count lost gate revenue, sold players and our overall earnings as a club since we dropped and dropped again.

People can whine about Warnock all they want but the findings that WHU profited by a relegation-avoiding measure of points with those two and the nefarious dealings of some shysters cashing in (because no one has addressed how much money was made by the owners and third parties, have they?) spell out what a shitty deal we were served by WHU and the PL.

And Ferguson and the whole Man U team can cunt off as well.

I hope we fucking dick WHU this season.

pommpey
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That disallowed Geary goal didn't just deny us a point, it ensured West Ham secured an extra two points. In other words, a three point swing. That one disallowed goal would have been enough to send West Ham down instead of either ourselves or Wigan.
 



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