Academy prospects

[broomhillblade]

Do we have any future stars coming through the Academy at the moment?
Since Brooks, it's all been very disappointing with - apparently - nobody even on the fringe of playing in the first team.

I'm not suggesting that the Academy should be scrapped, but maybe it's time for a shake-up.

 

[RedandWhite]

I disagree I think it should be scrapped altogether, poor academy

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Do we have any future stars coming through the Academy at the moment?
Since Brooks, it's all been very disappointing with - apparently - nobody even on the fringe of playing in the first team.

I'm not suggesting that the Academy should be scrapped, but maybe it's time for a shake-up.

A few have been on the fringes, then sent out on loan.

If it wasn't for Brooks playing well for england youth, he would have ended up at Chesterfield and would probably still be waiting first team appearances himself.

Wilder wants proven players now - he clearly doesn't like risking the youth (despite having the likes of Woodburn, Johnson and Bryan in this season.

 

[RedandWhite]

A few have been on the fringes, then sent out on loan.

If it wasn't for Brooks playing well for england youth, he would have ended up at Chesterfield and would probably still be waiting first team appearances himself.

Wilder wants proven players now - he clearly doesn't like risking the youth (despite having the likes of Woodburn, Johnson and Bryan in this season.

Johnson is 28

 

[I should coco]

Do we have any future stars coming through the Academy at the moment?

You're in luck.

Just this very morning Ball_Sup (Phil) published this, which is a great read.

https://ball-sup.blogspot.com/2019/04/don-walk-past.html

 

[Silent Blade]

Do we have any future stars coming through the Academy at the moment?
Since Brooks, it's all been very disappointing with - apparently - nobody even on the fringe of playing in the first team.

I'm not suggesting that the Academy should be scrapped, but maybe it's time for a shake-up.

Our Academy is Category 2 due to the EPPP ruling a few years ago and since then Category 1 Academies have been taking our best players

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Johnson is 28

I didn't mean Johnson as in youth, I meant more as in 'not good enough, but preferred to youth'.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I'll assume "scrap the Academy" comments are parody or tongue in cheek. The thing is, the next time a Brooks comes along, he'll need someone to pass it to him, & someone to make runs & someone to hold midfield & enforce for him while he drifts wide. The hundreds of other players at the Academy might not make it, but they're necessary so that others can make it.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

You're in luck.

Just this very morning Ball_Sup (Phil) published this, which is a great read.

https://ball-sup.blogspot.com/2019/04/don-walk-past.html

I'll be going to an Academy U18 game at the weekend & I'll do a similar U18 season review & pen picture of prospects thing....

 

[I should coco]

I'll assume "scrap the Academy" comments are parody or tongue in cheek

Sadly they are not.

If the academy doesn't produce two Brooks's and a Messi every season, it is officially 'shit'.

Any discussion about the 'shit academy' has to progress into a full blown 'sack the board'. It's the law!

 

[Sean Thornton]

Shurrit darn. Shurrit all darn.

 

[Superblades]

A few out on loan at lower league at the minute? Slater was getting a few games last year. I’m guessing it’s a case of see how they do in the lower leagues and then if that goes well they will be given a chance.

 

[Ecco1889]

I'll be going to an Academy U18 game at the weekend & I'll do a similar U18 season review & pen picture of prospects thing....

Excellent analysis as usual,not sure if you mentioned Sim Oure,I had high expectations of him at one stage but lacks consistency,Travis always seems to be encouraging him in particular.Always thought Tyler Smith will cut it at league level and one or two you have mentioned maybe late developers,you never know.Its a cut-throat business as you say,and quite a few will be released

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Excellent analysis as usual,not sure if you mentioned Sim Oure,I had high expectations of him at one stage but lacks consistency,Travis always seems to be encouraging him in particular.Always thought Tyler Smith will cut it at league level and one or two you have mentioned maybe late developers,you never know.Its a cut-throat business as you say,and quite a few will be released

I blow hot & cold on Simeon Oure. He drifts too much in games for me. I do think he is improving. For eg, faster & more intelligent in running the channels. The issue is simple. We're a Top Champo team, able to recruit established and quality players, our best prospects can get loan gigs in L1 & L2 etc, and we've got a very young & inexperienced U23 set up. Someone like Simeon may have "potential", which I am not very good at spotting. But, purely as a Number Puzzle, he's miles off at the mo'

 

[Whiston Blade]

Johnson is 28

He’s young at heart.

 

[Chali 2na]

Generally speaking, young players are inconsistent, and need time and patience to develop.

As a side chasing automatic promotion, we can ill afford to risk points by developing young players at the minute. That opinion is seemingly shared with the manager.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Wilder has had criticism on here for not playing the academy lads. We have had bitter parents on this forum before and I suspect some comments were along those lines.
One poster claimed he would rather have Harvey Gilmour when we signed Kieran Dowell. Since then Dowell has upped his England U21 appearances to 13 and been in our squad for every game whereas Gilmour hasn't been picked for a start at Tranmere once this year.
Of our other 20 year olds that left in January, Callum Semple has started 3 games for Ross County and the longest he has managed to stay on the pitch is 45 minutes.
Tyler Smith has started twice for Doncaster and managed 61 minutes as his longest.
Jordan Hallam has started 3 times for Scunthorpe and Stephen Mallon has sarted 6 times in the "A" league.
It is easy for people to claim that Wilder is an "academy blocker" but these stats surely suggest that these lads were not top end Championship players.

Of the lads a year younger, Regan Slater has clocked up 39 games for Carlisle. Rhys Norrington-Davies has played 24 games for Barrow, playing the full 90 in 23 and 84 in one game. He is now playing left midfield.
Sam Graham has started 6 for the Mariners but Jordan Doherty has only managed one minute in Tampa Bay's first five games.

GLTTL's.

 

[Redhead]

Wilder has had criticism on here for not playing the academy lads. We have had bitter parents on this forum before and I suspect some comments were along those lines.
One poster claimed he would rather have Harvey Gilmour when we signed Kieran Dowell. Since then Dowell has upped his England U21 appearances to 13 and been in our squad for every game whereas Gilmour hasn't been picked for a start at Tranmere once this year.
Of our other 20 year olds that left in January, Callum Semple has started 3 games for Ross County and the longest he has managed to stay on the pitch is 45 minutes.
Tyler Smith has started twice for Doncaster and managed 61 minutes as his longest.
Jordan Hallam has started 3 times for Scunthorpe and Stephen Mallon has sarted 6 times in the "A" league.
It is easy for people to claim that Wilder is an "academy blocker" but these stats surely suggest that these lads were not top end Championship players.

Of the lads a year younger, Regan Slater has clocked up 39 games for Carlisle. Rhys Norrington-Davies has played 24 games for Barrow, playing the full 90 in 23 and 84 in one game. He is now playing left midfield.
Sam Graham has started 6 for the Mariners but Jordan Doherty has only managed one minute in Tampa Bay's first five games.

GLTTL's.

Semple has clocked up 30 first team games and over 2000 playing minutes plus, is very close to promotion to the Scottish Premier League. Certainly not a bad first season in professional football for a lad who has just turned 19.

Ty Smith went to Doncaster on the back of a young Leeds striker called Wilkes going back to Leeds. He stayed so made game time for Smith almost impossible.

What has Semple direct replacement done since coming in from Man City? Nothing. Can’t even remember his name but I am sure he is on thousands of pounds a week to do Nothing.

I can tell you who has had the more successful season and I am sure you can also.
Semple, Gilmour, Hallam are far better off where they are making their own way in the game.

 

[awblade]

Wilder has had criticism on here for not playing the academy lads. We have had bitter parents on this forum before and I suspect some comments were along those lines.
One poster claimed he would rather have Harvey Gilmour when we signed Kieran Dowell. Since then Dowell has upped his England U21 appearances to 13 and been in our squad for every game whereas Gilmour hasn't been picked for a start at Tranmere once this year.
Of our other 20 year olds that left in January, Callum Semple has started 3 games for Ross County and the longest he has managed to stay on the pitch is 45 minutes.
Tyler Smith has started twice for Doncaster and managed 61 minutes as his longest.
Jordan Hallam has started 3 times for Scunthorpe and Stephen Mallon has sarted 6 times in the "A" league.
It is easy for people to claim that Wilder is an "academy blocker" but these stats surely suggest that these lads were not top end Championship players.

Of the lads a year younger, Regan Slater has clocked up 39 games for Carlisle. Rhys Norrington-Davies has played 24 games for Barrow, playing the full 90 in 23 and 84 in one game. He is now playing left midfield.
Sam Graham has started 6 for the Mariners but Jordan Doherty has only managed one minute in Tampa Bay's first five games.

GLTTL's.

Regarding Stephen Mallon he is actually looking really good, skillful and scored a few goals too, in a terrible team. The issue for him is that he is playing left wing which we obviously don't play in our system. Not sure if he can also play the attacking midfielder role.

Sam Graham is massively up and down, between games and between halves, this could be down to the poor team but I think a lot of it is his own consistency

 

[Redhead]

Wilder has had criticism on here for not playing the academy lads. We have had bitter parents on this forum before and I suspect some comments were along those lines.
One poster claimed he would rather have Harvey Gilmour when we signed Kieran Dowell. Since then Dowell has upped his England U21 appearances to 13 and been in our squad for every game whereas Gilmour hasn't been picked for a start at Tranmere once this year.
Of our other 20 year olds that left in January, Callum Semple has started 3 games for Ross County and the longest he has managed to stay on the pitch is 45 minutes.
Tyler Smith has started twice for Doncaster and managed 61 minutes as his longest.
Jordan Hallam has started 3 times for Scunthorpe and Stephen Mallon has sarted 6 times in the "A" league.
It is easy for people to claim that Wilder is an "academy blocker" but these stats surely suggest that these lads were not top end Championship players.

Of the lads a year younger, Regan Slater has clocked up 39 games for Carlisle. Rhys Norrington-Davies has played 24 games for Barrow, playing the full 90 in 23 and 84 in one game. He is now playing left midfield.
Sam Graham has started 6 for the Mariners but Jordan Doherty has only managed one minute in Tampa Bay's first five games.

GLTTL's.

Thank god When Harry Kane only managed 18 games for Orient in his first professional season he was not put down as not good enough.

It’s all about where young players get their opportunity to show what they can do.

Sadly at the moment there is no room for Academy prospect to get that opportunity in our first team.

But please don’t spout stats about what they have achieved in their first season out on loan in league football.
As I pointed out, Harry Kane’s wasn’t much to shout about.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Hows that Michael Tonge kid doing?

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Johnson is 28

Maybe he’s just a late developer?

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Do we have any future stars coming through the Academy at the moment?
Since Brooks, it's all been very disappointing with - apparently - nobody even on the fringe of playing in the first team.

I'm not suggesting that the Academy should be scrapped, but maybe it's time for a shake-up.

We are moving in different circles mate. We are now a Championship club on the verge of the Premiership. Not a League 1 side stuck there for 6 years. The bar for the entry level to the first team has been raised considerably.

I don’t know what the stats are, but I’d guess less than 5% of Academy players at our club ever go on to make a career in professional football. That’s probably similar for most clubs outside of the top 6 teams in the country.

Think back to that wonderful FA Youth Cup Final with Man Utd a few years ago. How many of those players actually went on to make a career in the game? Some obvious ones did, like Harry Maguire. But it’s a minority. Joe Ironside is at Nuneaton last I heard.

The most outstanding player throughout those two games was Ravel Morrison of Man Utd (imo). I thought he’d be the next Gascogne for England. He lost his way and is now somewhere in the Nordics.

It’s really, really tough.

But, if you can unearth one Harry Maguire or one David Brooks every 5 years it will pay for us to have a team capable of getting back to the top flight of football.

That’s why it’s important and that’s why you should be a bit more patient perhaps?

 

[Benny and the Blades]

Does having a ladies team take any .money out of the youth training project ?

 

[broomhillblade]

We are moving in different circles mate. We are now a Championship club on the verge of the Premiership. Not a League 1 side stuck there for 6 years. The bar for the entry level to the first team has been raised considerably.

I don’t know what the stats are, but I’d guess less than 5% of Academy players at our club ever go on to make a career in professional football. That’s probably similar for most clubs outside of the top 6 teams in the country.

Think back to that wonderful FA Youth Cup Final with Man Utd a few years ago. How many of those players actually went on to make a career in the game? Some obvious ones did, like Harry Maguire. But it’s a minority. Joe Ironside is at Nuneaton last I heard.

The most outstanding player throughout those two games was Ravel Morrison of Man Utd (imo). I thought he’d be the next Gascogne for England. He lost his way and is now somewhere in the Nordics.

It’s really, really tough.

But, if you can unearth one Harry Maguire or one David Brooks every 5 years it will pay for us to have a team capable of getting back to the top flight of football.

That’s why it’s important and that’s why you should be a bit more patient perhaps?

George Long was in that FA Youth Cup side, as was Jordan Slew and Callum McFazdean. None of them has done as well as Maguire or Brooks, but it was an exceptional year.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Semple has clocked up 30 first team games and over 2000 playing minutes plus, is very close to promotion to the Scottish Premier League. Certainly not a bad first season in professional football for a lad who has just turned 19.

Ty Smith went to Doncaster on the back of a young Leeds striker called Wilkes going back to Leeds. He stayed so made game time for Smith almost impossible.

What has Semple direct replacement done since coming in from Man City? Nothing. Can’t even remember his name but I am sure he is on thousands of pounds a week to do Nothing.

I can tell you who has had the more successful season and I am sure you can also.
Semple, Gilmour, Hallam are far better off where they are making their own way in the game.

My point was that all of them are playing at a level much lower than top end Championship and all of them are struggling to get in their sides. This would suggest to most people that they are not good enough at the moment to play for United. However, Football Dads, like Stage Mums, don't think like normal people.

 

[stringer]

George Long was in that FA Youth Cup side, as was Jordan Slew and Callum McFazdean. None of them has done as well as Maguire or Brooks, but it was an exceptional year.

Elliott Whitehouse too is at Grimsby

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Of course, United could field a team of Academy Graduates who I think would have a shot at automatic promotion from the Championship.

 

[finlaytheblade]

A few out on loan at lower league at the minute? Slater was getting a few games last year. I’m guessing it’s a case of see how they do in the lower leagues and then if that goes well they will be given a chance.

A lot of 1st ,& 2nd year pros get loaned out for experience even prem teams have to do it this way as the step up to the first team football is vast when you talk of premiership & championship

 

[Cerberus Blade]

George Long was in that FA Youth Cup side, as was Jordan Slew and Callum McFazdean. None of them has done as well as Maguire or Brooks, but it was an exceptional year.

Yes I agree.

I thought they all looked promising at one stage. And of course we’ve had the two Kyles in the not too distant past as well. But realistically the majority, even at that level, won’t go on to make it at the level of football we’re at now.

My son’s been a decent standard in terms of Sheffield junior league football. He’s gone on to Uni now and plays for one the Uni teams. But he’s nowhere near the standard to make the first 11. Probably not even in the top 100. He tells me the first 11 are all “Academy” players with professional clubs. The difference in skill/ability between him and them is a gulf. Then you have an even bigger gulf between them and those who make it at the professional level.

I was never anywhere near good enough to be a professional footballer. At school I was in the top 22 let’s say in my school of over 2000 kids. So top 10%. I played occasionally for the first 11 and regularly in the second 11. I reached the dizzy heights of the Midlands League and played (very briefly) for Alfreton Town. But I was astonished how much better those kids were than me. I couldn’t live with them.

Must be fantastic to be the best of the best at something you love, but it doesn’t come easy in any walk of life.

But no we shouldn’t think for one moment of scrapping the Academy. That’s barmy to me. There will be another Tonge, Naughton, Walker, Maguire, Brooks, along in the next 5 years and he will pay for the others and some of the first team as well.