Sheffield: A Footballing City Underperforming

[Silent Blade]

I was born at Netheredge Hospital and lived in Dronfield all my life but if anyone asks where I'm from, I say Sheffield.

Me too

 

[Harry's Game]

Whereas if you walk between Sheffield and Rotherham you feel like you've crossed an event horizon!

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

Or they could group together the likes of Barnsley And Rotherham and call it the Metropolitan Area of South Yorkshire.

Not sure if you're being ironic Bush, but this place existed for a while. It was called South Yorkshire. It was a Metropolitan county founded in 1974. It consisted of the Metropolitan councils of Sheffield, Rotherham, Barnsley and Doncaster. It had elected county councillors, and county hall was in it's "capital", Barnsley (yes, really). It had integrated services and transport. Buses linked with trains. Public transport was incredibly cheap. Thatcher didn't like it. It was abolished. Greater Manchester similarly doesn't now exist (she didn't like that either), but the term has continued, unlike South Yorkshire, which has just disappeared. Ever contrary and nostalgic for a lost socialist paradise, I liked South Yorkshire!!

 

[BushBlade]

Not sure if you're being ironic Bush, but this place existed for a while. It was called South Yorkshire. It was a Metropolitan county founded in 1974. It consisted of the Metropolitan councils of Sheffield, Rotherham, Barnsley and Doncaster. It had elected county councillors, and county hall was in it's "capital", Barnsley (yes, really). It had integrated services and transport. Buses linked with trains. Public transport was incredibly cheap. Thatcher didn't like it. It was abolished. Greater Manchester similarly doesn't now exist (she didn't like that either), but the term has continued, unlike South Yorkshire, which has just disappeared. Ever contrary and nostalgic for a lost socialist paradise, I liked South Yorkshire!!

According to wiki it’s still a metropolitan county.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Yorkshire

And yes, I was being facetious

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

According to wiki it’s still a metropolitan county.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Yorkshire

And yes, I was being facetious

Good stuff! Vive la Republique (da kno's!!!).

 

[Dkc]

Sheffield is the 10th biggest city in the UK if you are talking about urban areas

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

[Topplayersleave]

Sheffield is the 10th biggest city in the UK if you are talking about urban areas

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_United_Kingdom

That's a right load of bollox, and typical of Wikipedia where people write whatever they want.
How that makes Sheffield as a City 10th I don't know.

You cannot clump Leeds, Bradford, Wakefield, Huddersfield, Keighley, Dewsbury and Halifax together and call it a city, they are completely independent towns and cities. Bradford is one of the largest cities in the Country in its own right, it has absolutely nothing to do with Leeds and should never be included in the figures as though it is a Leeds suburb or Borough.

The West Yorkshire Built Up area is not a city, it is a region of many towns and cities
The West Midlands Built up area comprising of Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Coventry, West Bromwich, Dudley, Walsall, Solihull is not a city
Greater Manchester is not a City
And neither are any of the others.

You also can't include two cities together like Newcastle/Sunderland or Portsmouth/Southampton and all their joint surrounding towns and villages and then measure an entire region against one city.

Rotherham has a population of around 250,000 if all of it's bordering towns and villages are taken into account, but yet the entire Sheffield area which apparently includes Rotherham only has a population of 685,368

I don't know under which City places like Maltby, Thurnscoe, Goldthorpe, Hellaby, Wath, Dinnington, South and North Anston, Killamarsh, Mosborough, Eckington, Dronfield, Stocksbridge and many more towns and villages belong in.
They don't seem to belong in Rotherham or Sheffield otherwise Sheffield's Built Up Area population would be far higher.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

If by PL you mean Premier League (I haven't watched the thing), then Birmingham doesn't have a team there.

City sizes are tricky things. Technically we're bigger than Manchester, though in practice we're obviously not.

Sh

That's right
Sheffield is a stand alone city, and loses out in many ways because of it.
A City's Metropolitan Area is a collection of towns and cities all clumped together.

City measured against City and Sheffield is the 4th largest in England and the 5th largest in the UK

The City of Sheffield measured against The Metropolitan Area of some places like Merseyside, Greater Manchester and The West Yorkshire Conurbation and Sheffield is about 8th.

I've said it for many years, Sheffield and the region is being left behind, it is being left behind for many reasons, but one of them is it's isolation. It's time that Barnsley, Rotherham, Chesterfield, Doncaster, Worksop and North Derbyshire and North Nottinghamshire all joined in and became part of a "Greater Sheffield" for the benefit of the whole region.
There are people living in places like Eckington, Dronfield, Unsworth, Killamarsh, Marsh Lane, Stocksbridge who have absolutely Zero recognition or association with Sheffield whatsoever, despite most of them having Sheffield telephone numbers and all of them having a Sheffield postcode.

Sheffield International Airport at Doncaster, just as Manchester Airport is nearer to Altrincham
Motorway links to Central Sheffield and a motorway ring road starting from the M1 at Junction 30 and heading around the West of Sheffield and rejoining the M1 at Tankersley would be a way of enclosing all our neighbouring towns within the Sheffield Metropolitan Area and not feel like 5 or 6 isolated outposts.

The problem with the Sheffield city region in comparison to Greater Manchester is that all Sheffield’s surrounding towns dislike Sheffield and Sheffielders. Whereas the likes of Stockport, Salford, Trafford, Oldham, Rochdale etc seem to embrace being part of something bigger.

 

[gordoncharles]

That's a right load of bollox, and typical of Wikipedia where people write whatever they want.
How that makes Sheffield as a City 10th I don't know.

You cannot clump Leeds, Bradford, Wakefield, Huddersfield, Keighley, Dewsbury and Halifax together and call it a city, they are completely independent towns and cities. Bradford is one of the largest cities in the Country in its own right, it has absolutely nothing to do with Leeds and should never be included in the figures as though it is a Leeds suburb or Borough.

The West Yorkshire Built Up area is not a city, it is a region of many towns and cities
The West Midlands Built up area comprising of Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Coventry, West Bromwich, Dudley, Walsall, Solihull is not a city
Greater Manchester is not a City
And neither are any of the others.

There is a difference though For example Leeds, Pudsey and Bradford are completely linked and you'd have no idea you'd passed from one to another.

Similarly, Manchester, Salford, Stockport, Ashton, Stalybridge Hyde, Oldham and Bury have no natural border between them.

Neither has Birmingham, Solihull, Sandwell and Walsall

 

[Wapping Blade]

Sh

The problem with the Sheffield city region in comparison to Greater Manchester is that all Sheffield’s surrounding towns dislike Sheffield and Sheffielders. Whereas the likes of Stockport, Salford, Trafford, Oldham, Rochdale etc seem to embrace being part of something bigger.

That’s true in that when I was working with Rochdale Council in the late 2000s, their strategic vision was to be a “rural” commuter suburb of Manx.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

I really dislike the way various authorities in Britain like to redraw borders and rename regions. The boundary commission seem to have to justify their existence by redrawing the map every couple of years. It leaves people adrift, people identify with areas, towns and cities and don't want to have them renamed all the time. There's no reason to redraw the boundaries every time an authority changes its area, or a new one is formed. Leeds somehow now stretches to Wetherby and claims to have a population of over 700,000 - when I was young it was the same size as Sheffield, strange that. But then I expect it helps in attracting big businesses; there's a very wednesdayesque desperation from all the cities to be bigger than they really are.

 

[penthouseblade]

Agree, he’s got that bit wrong.

I always thought it was Sheffield United Cricket Club, with a few others that played at Bramall Lane.
“The Wednesday” football club only played odd games at Bramall Lane when they were expecting a big crowd.

Cricket was the number 1 sport in England in the 1880’s.
It was “Sheffield United Cricket Club” who used Bramall Lane during the Summer months, so Bramall Lane was largely unused during the Winter. The owners saw that football was growing in popularity and saw a revenue opportunity, so they asked The Wednesday if they wanted to move in permanently, they refused so the owners of Bramall Lane decided to start a new club, they wrote to local clubs inviting trials.

The cricket club was called Sheffield United, so they naturally thought to call the new football club “Sheffield United”.

The opportunity, as you put it, was an FA Cup Semi Final held at Bramall Lane in 1888. The crowd and revenue at that game encouraged the owners/custodians of Bramall Lane to create a new football team of their own - Sheffield United. I always thought it was the creation of the cricket and football clubs to become one club, so to speak, united in the truest sense of the word which created United. It seems however it came from the cricket club originally as you say.

 

[Dkc]

There is a difference though For example Leeds, Pudsey and Bradford are completely linked and you'd have no idea you'd passed from one to another.

Similarly, Manchester, Salford, Stockport, Ashton, Stalybridge Hyde, Oldham and Bury have no natural border between them.

Neither has Birmingham, Solihull, Sandwell and Walsall

Or Sheffield / Rotherham. I think that's the best way of judging the size of a city, it's contiguous urban area.

But while residents of Oldham or Pudsey see Leeds and Manchester as their big city centres, residents of the rest of S Yorks see Sheffield as just another town with ideas above it's station and they certainly don't feel part of a Greater Sheffield. A lot of people elsewhere in S Yorks think Sheffielders are twats who get them to pay for their trams etc.

 

[Topplayersleave]

There is a difference though For example Leeds, Pudsey and Bradford are completely linked and you'd have no idea you'd passed from one to another.

Similarly, Manchester, Salford, Stockport, Ashton, Stalybridge Hyde, Oldham and Bury have no natural border between them.

Neither has Birmingham, Solihull, Sandwell and Walsall

What's a natural border ?
Trees and stuff ?

My point is that somebody has posted that Sheffield is only the tenth largest city in this country by pointing out some crap on Wikipedia that Nottingham PLUS Derby and all the towns and villages in Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire is bigger than Sheffield
Portsmouth PLUS Southampton and all the towns and villages in Hampshire is bigger than Sheffield
Newcastle PLUS Sunderland and al the towns and villages in Tyne & Wear PLUS Durham and Northumberland is bigger than Sheffield

They've measured Sheffield against ENTIRE REGIONS not other CITIES

 

[gordoncharles]

What's a natural border ?
Trees and stuff ?

Yes.

And your point is also well taken.

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

Some good points there. I don't think the Barnsley's and Doncaster's of this world have a great deal of faith in Sheffield.

May have been last year when Sheffield was looking for a regional mayor Barnsley and Doncaster wanted to associate themselves with a Yorkshire mayor who would have probably been based in Leeds.

Barnsley , Rotherham , Doncaster are much bigger places than the suburbs of Manchester like bury , oldham etc.

Also in Manchester they are much closer and you get to them on the tram within 30 minutes

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

Barnsley , Rotherham , Doncaster are much bigger places than the suburbs of Manchester like bury , oldham etc.

Also in Manchester they are much closer and you get to them on the tram within 30 minutes

You can take this a level further. Since 1974, Barnsley, Donny, and Rovrum have been metropolitan boroughs, including in their territory many places which used to be in the old West Riding. South Yorkshire folk are a bit insular (I include Sheffield in this). I live in "greater Barnsley", between the old town of Barnsley, and Penistone. Many people out this way feel closer to Sheffield than Barnsley, even though they live in Barnsley. "Proper" Barnsley only has a population of about 90000, whereas the metropolitan area has about 240000. This is the difference between proper cities (Sheffield, Manchester, Leeds), and the little industrial towns around them - the cities are big in their own right and don't rely on surrounding villages to make them "bigger". Also in South Yorkshire, the smaller towns have retained their identities, unlike in Greater Manchester. Apart from going shopping at Meadowhall, Tykes have little to do with Sheffield, and spend a lot of time slagging it off, which is very much like "calling t'kettle black"!!!!!

 

[Topplayersleave]

You can take this a level further. Since 1974, Barnsley, Donny, and Rovrum have been metropolitan boroughs, including in their territory many places which used to be in the old West Riding. South Yorkshire folk are a bit insular (I include Sheffield in this). I live in "greater Barnsley", between the old town of Barnsley, and Penistone. Many people out this way feel closer to Sheffield than Barnsley, even though they live in Barnsley. "Proper" Barnsley only has a population of about 90000, whereas the metropolitan area has about 240000. This is the difference between proper cities (Sheffield, Manchester, Leeds), and the little industrial towns around them - the cities are big in their own right and don't rely on surrounding villages to make them "bigger". Also in South Yorkshire, the smaller towns have retained their identities, unlike in Greater Manchester. Apart from going shopping at Meadowhall, Tykes have little to do with Sheffield, and spend a lot of time slagging it off, which is very much like "calling t'kettle black"!!!!!

I think most residents of Oldham, Rochdale, Bolton and Bury hate Manchester as much as Barnsley, Rotherham, Doncaster and Chesterfield hate Sheffield

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I think most residents of Oldham, Rochdale, Bolton and Bury hate Manchester as much as Barnsley, Rotherham, Doncaster and Chesterfield hate Sheffield

Really?

 

[Topplayersleave]

And you can hardly blame them, with the performance of our council over the last 40 years.

If they had excellent local councils themselves I might see their point

 

[stringjunior]

I think most residents of Oldham, Rochdale, Bolton and Bury hate Manchester as much as Barnsley, Rotherham, Doncaster and Chesterfield hate Sheffield

Really?

In my experience residents of those North Western towns don't identify themselves as manunians. And you can add much of stockport to this list. Salford not so much.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

In my experience residents of those North Western towns don't identify themselves as manunians. And you can add much of stockport to this list. Salford not so much.

They’re certainly proud of their towns, but they definitely don’t hate Manchester in the way Barnsley, Doncaster of Rotherham folk resent Sheffield.

Bolton aside (an odd place that makes Barnsley look cosmopolitan and outward looking), an awful lot of local people in those towns work and shop in Manchester and support Manchester football clubs.

It almost certainly helps that most of the time you can’t tell where one ends and the other starts.

 

[GVBlade]

What about Stocksbridge? Does everyone consider it to be part of the City of Sheffield, or a town/village in its own right?

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Wednesday's take on it.

https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/281738-dunno-why-they-had-to-mention-the-other-lot/