Wolves. Can you imagine if

[I should coco]

So they were getting 100 million on the Sky deal and managed to completely make a mess of it by poor player recruitment and management

..and that is the nub of it.

Excellent player recruitment and club management is a rarity and difficult to do over a longer term. Stoke are a great example of a club with a plan and strong identity. Eventually the johnny-come-latelys tire of a rigid system and want the beautiful game. Result; appoint Mark Hughes with his record of serial failure and buy some expensive foreigners, who really don't want to be there.

If we go up it will be the same here. The crys to 'move on', 'push for Europe' and 'Wilder's taken us as far as he can', will soon emerge.

Look how short most manager's tenure is. Most football fans are short term wankers sadly, and we are no exception.

 

[Houston_Blade]

But like Chali 2na says, it’s calculated over 3 years. They would have been required to turn a £30m, perhaps nearer £50m, profit when wages are taken into account, in year 3. This probably would have been very unlikely but perhaps not impossible as they did have assets to sell. Is their Premier League income taken into account this year ? If they come down they will have parachute payments in their first year back in the EFL. Will the EFL even take into account the years before they got promoted. As far as I am aware it’s only Wolves and Bournemouth who have pushed the limits and have got promoted and neither look like dropping back down anytime soon.

Could be a big year ahead for the EFL in dealing with FFP. Brum, Derby and pigs have spent big (or had big wage bills) for at least 3 years now. So what are they going to do about it !

I think they'll ignore it. Now the pigs have tried the dazzling manouevre of changing their financial year end slightly it will completely throw the EFL and they'll ignore the losses,

 

[I should coco]

Now the pigs have tried the dazzling manouevre of changing their financial year end slightly it will completely throw the EFL and they'll ignore the losses,

The 'D Taxis' adverts were doing the rounds too on the electronic boards.

Check out their wonderful Facebook page and please feel free to add any 'constructive' comments

https://en-gb.facebook.com/pages/category/Local-Service/D-Taxis-678801399174929/

I rang them (0114 3959595) and after a long wait when presumably most sane people would ring off, you finally get the immortal "D Taxis, coming soon..."

Once this corporate monolith starts sponsoring Wendy to the tune of £50m per season, I'm sure the EFL will be happy to put it in the 'too difficult' tray.

 

[Houston_Blade]

The 'D Taxis' adverts were doing the rounds too on the electronic boards.

Check out their wonderful Facebook page and please feel free to add any 'constructive' comments

https://en-gb.facebook.com/pages/category/Local-Service/D-Taxis-678801399174929/

I rang them (0114 3959595) and after a long wait when presumably most sane people would ring off, you finally get the immortal "D Taxis, coming soon..."

Once this corporate monolith starts sponsoring Wendy to the tune of £50m per season, I'm sure the EFL will be happy to put it in the 'too difficult' tray.

90% of the pigs advertising board adverts were linked to themselves. I know that they are desperately trying to invent revenue and this maybe justifies some of the make believe sums that their related companies can charge, however I feel that they are losing sight of the fact that they need actual cash to run the business and not just make believe revenue.

 

[Boxer Blade]

Why would the EFL be waiting? What rule have Wolves broken?

I am presuming like most clubs that buy there way out of the championship (unlike Burnley and Huddersfield) that they have amassed losses that have breached league rules, I don't know that, just presuming .

 

[Chali 2na]

I am presuming like most clubs that buy there way out of the championship (unlike Burnley and Huddersfield) that they have amassed losses that have breached league rules, I don't know that, just presuming .

I think that presumption is incorrect.

As far as Im aware, the only clubs that have breached the rules in order to gain promotion were LCFC, AFCB and QPR, in recent years

 

[Boxer Blade]

I think that presumption is incorrect.

As far as Im aware, the only clubs that have breached the rules in order to gain promotion were LCFC, AFCB and QPR, in recent years

Ok,my bad.

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

Unless they are reaching finals and/or winning things they are really not going to increase their commercial activities globally. The only exception will be Portugal due to the number of players they have from there.
Agree to disagree

 

[PaulHalfway]

I think that presumption is incorrect.

As far as Im aware, the only clubs that have breached the rules in order to gain promotion were LCFC, AFCB and QPR, in recent years

And Wolves, they lost £52 million last year

 

[Chali 2na]

And Wolves, they lost £52 million last year

It's over 3 years isn't it?

 

[SB_90]

well this was expected because when your signing champions league players Neves Jota & Boly then premier league signings in Ruddy & Afobe. & I doubt champions league manager was on cheap wages. but fair play to them because its 1 thing to have tonnes of cash to spend their are plenty of examples in this division of spending similar money & getting nowhere. not mentioning anyone Middlesboro, Derby Wednesday & they have nothing to show for it. but its a much tougher job to spend it well, which was man city problem pre guardiola I said at the time that they were 1 of the greatest 2nd tier teams that I have ever seen. & would easily grace the top 10 of the premier league, this season being 7th best of the rest of the rest straight away has confirmed it

 

[The Crab]

2016-17 was I think the first year of the latest TV deal. That meant wages hadn't caught up with the clubs' increases in income.

Southampton's broadcasting income for example went up by £52m that year whereas their total wage bill "only" went up £27m. They also made £12m on their player trading. Their income won't have gone up like that in 2017-18 but I'm certain their wage bill will have as they, like the rest, scramble to avoid the inevitable relegation at some point in the near to mid-distant future.

They sold Van Dijk for big money of course so they'll turn a good profit, but that comes at the cost of their team and increased their chances of relegation.

Similarly, Bournemouth's TV revenue went up by £49m (TV accounts for 91% of Bournemouth's income) but their wages only went up by £12m.that year.

So a promoted side can make a big profit in its first year as its cost base doesn't catch up with the enormous increase in income.

After that those returns will diminish till you throw everything at it in a vain attempt to maintain your PL status.

Despite the parachute payments few teams make any money when relegated either, the only ones I can think of are those where the owners stopped putting any serious money into it, like Hull and Blackpool.

In the case of Blackpool they were actually taking it out..............

 

[finlaytheblade]

Clubs have to provide EFL with their financial data around end of
March. Deduct one point per million pounds spent on wages from end of season points total to determine final table for each league.

Draconian, yes but would focus minds on balancing risk and reward better.

Never happen though, too many vested interest money men in football clubs,

Yes agree,even to the point of taking away promotion if they acheave it, fail,! and the punishment takes care of itself.
I hate to see cheats prosper in any walk of life and football is big business these days.
I think if the punishment fits the crime !, many rich owners would walk away, maybe that's the reason the powers that be go easy on them.
Wouldn't it be great to go back to when the playing field was more even,accepted biggest clubs would dominate but in times past any club in top division could win things and the cup was occasionaloccasionally was won by a lower league club.Football is a better product these days and that is not due to just money,it has evolved because of the passion for the game right across the football industry.

 

[LJBlade]

It's over 3 years isn't it?

It is but isn't the loss limit £39 million over 3 years? So they're over it all the same?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

It is but isn't the loss limit £39 million over 3 years? So they're over it all the same?

If Wolves come down they’ll have the parachute payments and therefore wouldn’t have already failed by default. They would also have had to be in the Championship making those losses over 3 years, again not happened.

 

[Chali 2na]

It is but isn't the loss limit £39 million over 3 years? So they're over it all the same?

I'm not sure what the exact figure is, would also depend on the profit they made in the season prior to Fosun taking charge

 

[Grizzly blade]

I’m not convinced that PL status would be the endless pot of gold some might think it is. I believe the PL club income from tv and prize money for finishing position etc. ranges from £150 to £95million per season. Now that might seem a fortune but if Wolves wage bill is £45m and we need to spend, say £100m to upgrade the squad in year 1 plus what, £50m per season thereafter? without the massive off pitch income of the top 5 it gets quite marginal. You can see how a short spell in the PL can be followed by financial ruin if you get relegated and can’t get back within a couple of seasons. Without a billionaire to underwrite all this it’s a perilous business.
Of course if CW is genius enough to keep us up for a couple seasons with largely a similar squad, that changes everything. History would suggest that it can’t be done though.

Yes, I totally get that.
My point was that provided we don’t fall into the trap of spending all the tv money on new players in the hope we stay up, and stick to the current model of player recruitment then we will benefit longer term even if we only last a season.
All this Pigs squeeling and laughing that we will come straight back down bothers me not one bit! It’s their aloof attitude thinking they would fare better and have the extra money to ensure they stayed up that is the problem. They would become another Sunderland or Bolton due to their lack of learning from experience and arrogance.

For me, the best way is to maintain a steady improvement, keep expectations manageable and set realistic targets. There are simply far too many clubs chucking money at it to make every one a success.
We will see how it pans out though!

 

[Houston_Blade]

It is but isn't the loss limit £39 million over 3 years? So they're over it all the same?

Yes but they’d claim that they could make the difference back and the EFL would believe them.

In theory if they sacked all their players and still brought in the same revenue it’s feasible for them to reduce the loss to under £39m over the 3 year period.

There is something about submitting actuals plus forecast and at the point that they submit an unrealistic forecast the EFL should be all over them. They aren’t and therefore it’s open to abuse.

Someone will have had read the rules and will know whether the EFL can apply any sanctions before the 3 year period is up or not. I don’t know but I think that must be the case otherwise we’d have seen more sanctions presumably.

 

[BushBlade]

https://www.efl.com/-more/governanc...appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/

 

[BushBlade]

It is but isn't the loss limit £39 million over 3 years? So they're over it all the same?

Maybe, maybe not. We’re guessing based on a brief report from the media, as opposed to seeing the actual accounts.

 

[Cjay]

The wage bill quoted at Leeds really surprised me. I think it's just that given the Ridsdale era and all the nutters since I just expect Leeds to throw massive wages at everyone, seems that this is not the case.

Yeah i think thats it, people expect us to be similar to the past, throwing money around willy nilly, not the case anymore, if anything we are a bit overly cautious at times.

 

[Fanny magnet]

Wolves fan here, the numbers are astounding to look at, no doubt about that, particularly wages of £44 million on turnover of only £26 million. But the answer to your question is yes - the deals for Bonatini, Jota, Boly etc were all 'loan to buy deals', where the club only needed to complete the transfer at the end of the season if everyone was happy (and presumably if the club had been promoted). I think they were allowed to lose about £20 million last year and still be compliant with FFP and presumably would have stayed within those limits by not signing the loan players and not paying the promotion bonuses. Plus Neves would have been sold (as he is owned by the club) and that would have solved everything.

Why would the EFL be waiting? What rule have Wolves broken?

Theyve gone 31 million over the ffp threshold

 

[Gin&Juice]

Yeah i think thats it, people expect us to be similar to the past, throwing money around willy nilly, not the case anymore, if anything we are a bit overly cautious at times.

Leeds side that was built between 1999 and late 2000 was criminal, clever signings and youth. After that it got a bit ridiculous.

Remember Ridsdale commissioning a DVD about himself. Summed up the man, ego took over. A more tactically astute manager and they would have won something.

 

[Fanny magnet]

I'm not sure what the exact figure is, would also depend on the profit they made in the season prior to Fosun taking charge

They made a small profit ,think it was 5 million
THis is why they were chosen by fosun as the perfect blank canvas to attempt for the third time to impose Jorge Mendes system

Since then they have made losses of 70 million.

 

[BushBlade]

Leeds side that was built between 1999 and late 2000 was criminal, clever signings and youth. After that it got a bit ridiculous.

Remember Ridsdale commissioning a DVD about himself. Summed up the man, ego took over. A more tactically astute manager and they would have won something.

O’Leary was hugely out of his depth.

 

[gordoncharles]

They made a small profit ,think it was 5 million
THis is why they were chosen by fosun as the perfect blank canvas to attempt for the third time to impose Jorge Mendes system

Since then they have made losses of 70 million.

Wolves were run very prudently when Steve Morgan owned them. Fat lot of good it did as they were relegated (inevitably!) and then had their Robson-moment when they appointed Dean Saunders as manager and got themselves immediately relegated to League 1. But they didn't go mad with their parachute payments.

2014: £10m profit (£4m of that due to net player trading profits)
2015: £2m profit (£3m of that profit on players so actually a small operating loss)
2016: £8m profit (£10m of that profit on players so another small operating loss)

2017: £21m loss (including £2m profit on players)
2018: £54m loss (including £8m profit on players)