Chengdu Blades: The Failed Experiment

[BladeInIreland]

Is that true? Wilder doesn't strike me as wanting a DOF and seems to do everything on his own with Knill as his right hand man. Seem to recall that when Baki left last year we appointed Jan Van Winckel to be the DOF but Wilder poo pooed that idea sharpish. Maybe it's my old memory banks getting the better of me but Wilder seems to be his own man and doesn't want interference from anyone in footballing matters.

I believe I read something saying it was upon wilders request he had returned as a middle man for him to discuss footballing matters with. I don’t want someone to make on field decisions as in team selection but basically someone who knows what there doing to appoint managers and advice owners on going rates, realistic budgets and expectations as well as being the middle man Wilder wanted.

 

[Pittsburg Blade]

It says “Ramsden’s Currency” in Chinese.

A direct translation would be Lamsden’s Cullency

 

[BladeInIreland]

Baki was nothing to do with the football side so l find it odd Wilder would request anything of him to do with that. His brief was as pommpey has pointed out - and is on the OS - to develop international contacts, but I don't know what he did.

Who am I thinking of then? Was there not someone Wilder requested the return of as a go between for him and the owners on football matters .Either this season or last?

 

[Eddiecolquhounsleg]

I believe I read something saying it was upon wilders request he had returned as a middle man for him to discuss footballing matters with. I don’t want someone to make on field decisions as in team selection but basically someone who knows what there doing to appoint managers and advice owners on going rates, realistic budgets and expectations as well as being the middle man Wilder wanted.

It's you that said,"A Director of football to deal with all football decisions" (in relation to Baki). Now you're saying,"I don’t want someone to make on field decisions as in team selection but basically someone who knows what there doing to appoint managers and advice owners on going rates, realistic budgets and expectations". If you are not confused, I certainly am

 

[Revolution]

McCabe was actually prescient with this idea. It's been copied by premier league clubs since. We got the most important bit wrong though: a successful Sheffield United first team which raises questions about whether monies were diverted in the wrong areas.

McCabes focus at the time was everywhere but on the first team. That was his big mistake.

 

[BladeInIreland]

It's you that said,"A Director of football to deal with all football decisions" (in relation to Baki). Now you're saying,"I don’t want someone to make on field decisions as in team selection but basically someone who knows what there doing to appoint managers and advice owners on going rates, realistic budgets and expectations". If you are not confused, I certainly am

Obviously I wasn’t clear.
Not someone to interfere with the managers job in regards to team selection or tactics.
By all football decisions I meant those that McCabe made in the past.
Someone to make manager appointments, someone who understands modern football and can advise on budgets, expectations and lead negotiations.

As an example , someone who can say to the owners “In the current market that’s not a lot of money for Brooks , I’d advise we hang on till January” or “ We have a decent squad of footballers that would probably be wasted with Kevin Blackwell’s tactics”

 

[Cerberus Blade]

McCabes focus at the time was everywhere but on the first team. That was his big mistake.

I think his biggest mistake was putting his trust in that megalomaniac, Warnock, to do what was necessary for us to survive in the Prem. He gave him money, but Warnock spunked it on hundreds of strikers that never saw the light of day in the first team - (amidst allegations it was a "pay to play" system he operated there) and defenders like Claude Davis, and midfielders like Ahmed Fathi, and strikers like Ade Akinbiyi. He was a disaster and had far more to do with our relegation than ever West Ham did.

 

[Snowman]

Who am I thinking of then? Was there not someone Wilder requested the return of as a go between for him and the owners on football matters .Either this season or last?

Wasn't Baki. But for the life of me can't remember his name. He buggered off down South for a bit and then came back on board. Don't think CW asked for him, just expressed huge relief when he was reappointed.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

A direct translation would be Lamsden’s Cullency

Lunnikingus!

 

[BladeInIreland]

Wasn't Baki. But for the life of me can't remember his name. He buggered off down South for a bit and then came back on board. Don't think CW asked for him, just expressed huge relief when he was reappointed.

At least I didn’t completely make it up. Just 90% of it.

 

[Revolution]

For those Blades that remember or don't, I've investigated into why McCabe's bid into Chinese football was a huge fail. Interesting read, with an interview with the former Director of Football. All reads appreciated! UTB

https://onceablade.co.uk/first-team/chengdu-blades-the-failed-experiment/

Interesting piece, thanks for linking.

I attended the game pictured in your article: Chengdu Blades lost 7-0 to a pretty strong Chelsea side. The game was played in Macau on a blazing hot night. Due to being in the right place at the right time I managed to hitch a ride to the ground on the coach transporting the Chengdu Blades players' wives.

I understand that the investment in Chengdu Blades cost only US$100,000 so not much was lost on the deal. I bet Man City paid a lot more.

 

[Snowman]

At least I didn’t completely make it up. Just 90% of it.

Dunno, my memory is such that my version may be 83% wrong so that's both of us with eggy faces.

 

[Wooden Blade]

Wasn't Baki. But for the life of me can't remember his name. He buggered off down South for a bit and then came back on board. Don't think CW asked for him, just expressed huge relief when he was reappointed.

Stephen Bettis who is Chief Executive Officer

 

[Snowman]

Stephen Bettis who is Chief Executive Officer

Ta.

 

[Ginger Gnome]

What's most interesting about this is that it's largely a copy/paste job of a story with the exact same name from 2012 which pops up as soon as you Google Chengdu Blades. Maybe that's what passes for investigating these days.
https://wildeastfootball.net/2012/09/chengdu-blades-the-failed-experiment/

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I think his biggest mistake was putting his trust in that megalomaniac, Warnock, to do what was necessary for us to survive in the Prem. He gave him money, but Warnock spunked it on hundreds of strikers that never saw the light of day in the first team - (amidst allegations it was a "pay to play" system he operated there) and defenders like Claude Davis, and midfielders like Ahmed Fathi, and strikers like Ade Akinbiyi. He was a disaster and had far more to do with our relegation than ever West Ham did.

Right. So the hundreds of strikers he bought for the Premier were who exactly? Spunked money on the likes of Rob Hulse (who most fans were opposed to, excellent), Jon Stead (who nearly all were opposed to, decent), Nade (virtually no money and who gave us one of the season highlights, better than expected), and who wouldn’t pay what Preston wanted for Nugent (or what Cardiff wanted a year before for Jerome). Yep, all Warnock’s fault. His fault too that McCabe was only willing to loosen the wage bill constraints when he got a proper manager like Robson in the following season...

 

[Sean Thornton]

Interesting piece, thanks for linking.

I attended the game pictured in your article: Chengdu Blades lost 7-0 to a pretty strong Chelsea side. The game was played in Macau on a blazing hot night. Due to being in the right place at the right time I managed to hitch a ride to the ground on the coach transporting the Chengdu Blades players' wives.

I understand that the investment in Chengdu Blades cost only US$100,000 so not much was lost on the deal. I bet Man City paid a lot more.

Thé 2010 accounts show an overall loss on discontinued operations of £601k. I think that’s the total loss after the purchase/sale of the asset and expenses incurred.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

For those Blades that remember or don't, I've investigated into why McCabe's bid into Chinese football was a huge fail. Interesting read, with an interview with the former Director of Football. All reads appreciated! UTB

https://onceablade.co.uk/first-team/chengdu-blades-the-failed-experiment/

It didn’t of course begin in Dec 2005 – this was brewing for a while in McCabe’s mind. We had an academy Hainan island prior to that. We also toured China in the preseason of summer 2005 (there was talk of Craig Short being greeted as a celebrity, no idea why), and of course the famous signing of Hao Hai Dong almost an exact 12 months before the Chengdu Blades purchase.

All in all a bit of an odd affair. I still have the t-shirt version of the Chengdu home shirt.

 

[Sean Thornton]

What's most interesting about this is that it's largely a copy/paste job of a story with the exact same name from 2012 which pops up as soon as you Google Chengdu Blades. Maybe that's what passes for investigating these days.
https://wildeastfootball.net/2012/09/chengdu-blades-the-failed-experiment/

Saw this earlier because the title rang a bell. By Peter Davis. 2012. Bits are verbatim as well.

 

[Sean Thornton]

It didn’t of course begin in Dec 2005 – this was brewing for a while in McCabe’s mind. We had an academy Hainan island prior to that. We also toured China in the preseason of summer 2005 (there was talk of Craig Short being greeted as a celebrity, no idea why), and of course the famous signing of Hao Hai Dong almost an exact 12 months before the Chengdu Blades purchase.

All in all a bit of an odd affair. I still have the t-shirt version of the Chengdu home shirt.

McCabe was doing business in China prior to that as well.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Saw this earlier because the title rang a bell. By Peter Davis. 2012. Bits are verbatim as well.

Chengdu Blades: the failed plagiarism?

 

[Pedro Verde]

How is the Syrian venture going?

Plenty of re building to be done

 

[Ranmoorblade]

The loss of £600,000 is classed as one of the worst football experiments in football? We've lost more on players.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Who am I thinking of then? Was there not someone Wilder requested the return of as a go between for him and the owners on football matters .Either this season or last?

Stephen Bettis: https://www.sufc.co.uk/news/2018/july/bettis-returns/
Just seen I was beaten to it. Holds hands up.

 

[nopigfansintown]

McCabes focus at the time was everywhere but on the first team. That was his big mistake.

He admitted that he took his "eye off the ball" between then and Adkins sacking, in May 2016.

 

[zablade]

I remember questioning Mcabe’s then bagman Terry Robinson in the mid 2000s at a fans forum about the wisdom of these foreign adventures and whether it was viable for a club like United, not an established name on the international scene, to be going down this route.

I was more or less told by old Terry I didn’t know what I was talking about and to basically shut up and of course got the wrath of the “lucky to have him brigade” who are always wheeled out at these forums and why I don’t attend them anymore.

Guess what? I was right and he and they where wrong.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Just a small point to the OP, it’s “reaps” rewards and not “reeks” rewards. Unless the rewards stink?

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Right. So the hundreds of strikers he bought for the Premier were who exactly? Spunked money on the likes of Rob Hulse (who most fans were opposed to, excellent), Jon Stead (who nearly all were opposed to, decent), Nade (virtually no money and who gave us one of the season highlights, better than expected), and who wouldn’t pay what Preston wanted for Nugent (or what Cardiff wanted a year before for Jerome). Yep, all Warnock’s fault. His fault too that McCabe was only willing to loosen the wage bill constraints when he got a proper manager like Robson in the following season...

I also thought Hulse and Stead were good buys - Hulse especially, up until the point when he got injured.

It sounds like you don't recall, but throughout his tenure at United, Warnock signed lots of strikers. It was actually a bit of a joke amongst football pundits and it was commented at the time that he was "collecting them" - many never played. I'm sure I could go look it up on Wikipedia and come back with a long list - not all would have been signed during the Premiership season admittedly, but my general point is that Warnock signed a lot of players, many of whom weren't fit to play at Premiership level. I also remember it being commented on during one abysmal game at Bramall Lane - that we had several million pounds worth of Warnock signings, sat in the stands watching the game. Davis and Fathi were 2 of them, that I remember. I don't think McCabe released enough funds for us to be able to compete at Premiership level, but the money he did release wasn't spent wisely by Warnock in my opinion. I'm not sure whether McCabe didn't have more funds to release, or whether he did have more funds but didn't trust Warnock with it, based on what he'd seen. My opinion is that Warnock didn't spend the money he had wisely, on players who were capable of competing at that level. It's fine for you to disagree, but you won't change my mind about that.

I think Warnock's awful tactics away from home was another major factor in us not retaining Premiership status. I went to many away matches and I began to dread it. He would change the team to suit the opposition - and he spoke freely about that. He'd put out a defensive formation away from home and try and stifle the game. One example of this that springs to mind was New Years Day, away to Middlesboro. Along with dozens of other Blades, we'd stopped off in Thirsk for a beer before the game. It was whilst we were in the pub, that we learned we'd just signed Ade Akinbiyi - we were all pretty stunned by that news! We then went onto the game. Warnock put out his usual dour away team formation. Middlesboro were poor, very poor. They were there for the taking. But we never really tried to attack them, we were happy to try and snuff them out - then that big ex-Leeds striker of theirs (Aussie guy - can't remember the name now, but good player) scored and that was more or less game over.

There were many times that I came back from away games wondering why I bothered. It was like two different teams. The home team, where we would go for the jugular from the off. And the away team, where the manager would worry about what they might do to us and go all defensive. Could you see Wilder doing that in the Prem? I can't. I'm not saying he wouldn't play it tactically different at the likes of Man City and such places, but there'd always be that desire and drive to win the game - that wasn't the case with Warnock. (I remember ahead of the away match at Man Utd, he referred to it jokingly as "our little trip out" - inferring that we'd no chance of getting a thing there - that just about summed him up).

Sorry, I'm not a Warnock fan, not at all. I think the guy is a megalomaniac and a buffoon. I think it took him a long, long time, to turn our club around and get it back to the top flight and I think he wasted millions over those years on players who were just not good enough. I think he was an embarrassment to the club with his conduct and continuous slating of referees. I think even when we won, like the rare away victory at Derby where we'd played ever so well, his post-match comments were not about the win, but about how bad the ref was. It was just ridiculous. On the other side of it, by law of averages almost, he did sign some good players - some exciting ones - like Patrick Suffo - he was "exciting"! We also had some really memorable times under his management and some great memories. But we were talking about one season in particular, the season in the Prem. And my opinion is that, with a better manager, we may have stayed there.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

But we were talking about one season in particular, the season in the Prem. And my opinion is that, with a better manager, we may have stayed there.

Yes, I thought we were talking about that – which was why I didn’t get into the signings before then as you’ve done in your reply. I remember those years very well. And my opinion was that, given we were expected to come straight back down easily, the fact we were just a goal away from staying up in the end exceeded expectations of realistically what we could achieve with that group. Plenty will I’m sure disagree, but we were favourites to come back down rock bottom.

 

[The Crab]

Not quite following. I'm not aligning Baki with Chengdu. I am suggesting that Chngdu, Ferencvaros, Sao Paulo and Baki were part of a series of failed ventures into some or other overseas market whereby McCabe possibly made one or two miscalculations. I mean, Baki was meant to scope oversea opportunities or summat, wasn't he? In the name of SUFC? And got … 'what' exactly achieved?

pommpey

Baki, Trevor Birch, Charles Green.

On an almost unrelated subject, down at the lock up this weekend only I've got a special offer on Snake Oil..................