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Jim Chimmerney

Can hear the 'Cod Army' roar from his back garden
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Taken from t'net this morning, pretty much sums us up I reckon....

"Meet Sheffield United – a triumph of hope over reality, terminally unfulfilled potential weighed down by heritage and expectation. We are not alone but feel our pain.

Meet Sheffield United. Chip-on-the-shoulder, hard-done-to, proud working-class salt-of-the-earth guttural folk bravely facing up to the fancy-dan-southerners with their hot running water and their inside lavs. Unfashionable, brutish, knife and fork merchants, spirited and stubborn underdogs, unsophisticates trying to shake off centuries-old perceptions of smoking chimneys, thick, dark fogs, a smoky furnace of a place inhabited by rabid socialists.

Another essential part of our psyche is our mardiness – a take-the-ball-home-if-we-think we’re-not-being-treated-fairly kind of mardy. Sometimes our mardiness knows no bounds. It’s not something to be proud of and at the moment it’s getting in the way.

Stuck in the frozen stasis of the Championship, the Blades have got a pulse but there’s no-one home and everyone’s cross, they’re very, very cross. Blackwell’s now infamous Radio Sheffy interview after the drubbing at the seaside will go down in S2 folklore and made us enough of a local laughing stock to give the car park boys ammunition for a weekend demo. Boro’s refusal to stick by Southgate, despite their healthy league position, has been further interpreted by the boo boys as Boro’s proof of Premiership focus at all costs, and our lack of it. Who’d be a chairman?

Deserved or not, our Kev is under fire to the point at which Warnock is desired as a replacement (one step forward, three steps back). Kev’s the B52 pilot who’s sent out a distress message because he’s taken a couple of cheap shots in the wing, his left engine’s spluttering, he’s ripped off the oxygen mask and he’s jerking the throttle back to keep the mother-of-all-aircraft in the damn skies so that it can cough and splutter its way back to blighty as the flak explodes all around him. Beset by injuries, the tickly coughgate scandal and some incisive, but hardly outrageous questioning, Kevin had a BBC mardy doling out indignation and exasperation in equal measures at the suggestion that dressing room spirit might not be all that it should be. It’s the beginning of the end when the manager loses his rag with the local reporter. His pot nearly boiled over after the play-off final last summer but this was a step-change in mardiness and it was priceless and damaging.

If Kev’s cross, the fans are crosser. And no-one can agree if we play hoofball or a passing game. Sometimes we do one, sometimes another so the terraces are a battleground with the rampant win-ugly-as-long-as-it-gets-us-points brigade charge headlong down the field to lock horns with the brave sons of Woodward and Currie and the battle is ugly. Blackwell is simply the latest incumbent overseeing a recurrent nightmare for the Blades and our style of play.

At the heart of this nightmare is our expectation based on our history.
It is one thing aspiring to do something in the knowledge that to achieve it will be a major triumph over and above what you might reasonably have expected to be your outcome. But it is another to aspire to do something thinking that the major triumph was the very least that was expected. It’s a kind of hollow victory.

Being Prem is a baseline for us. That’s not arrogant; it’s just what the membership believes. Some might believe us misguided and urge us to accept a new order but we are stubborn folk. Success is much, much more than the Prem and we’re nowhere near even that yet so we have to decide if Kev’s the man to deliver our lofty expectations.

Getting to the Prem should be considered an achievement, but not for us. Blades fans would simply say: “Back to where we belong - now the real work begins”. It is this line of thinking, the weight of our history, which is currently holding us back and sets a backdrop against which success is always expected and failure requires public floggings and self mutilation. That’s what we’ve had this week and that’s what’s been promised at the weekend. Instead we should coolly put aside our mardiness and the rest of our psychological deficiencies and decide once and for all whether or not this man is the right manager for us based on his and the team’s performance so far.

We’ll have to wait and see if the car park attendance really has momentum on Saturday. That will depend not necessarily on victory or defeat, though defeat would make things extremely difficult, but the manner in which we play against a handily-placed Cardiff.

Whatever happens, expect some early fireworks at Beautiful Downtown Bramall Lane and much burning of effigies."
 

"Getting to the Prem should be considered an achievement, but not for us. Blades fans would simply say: “Back to where we belong - now the real work begins”. It is this line of thinking, the weight of our history, which is currently holding us back and sets a backdrop against which success is always expected and failure requires public floggings and self mutilation."

What is this weight of history? We've spent five of the last 33 years in the top flight of English football.
The weight of history is actually about acute frustration about under-achievement, not a belief we have a right to be in the Premiership more than anyone else.
I'm not going to list again where we come in terms of under-achievement - Dazzler will hopefully be along soon - but that is the real and very understandable issue.
 
What is this weight of history? We've spent five of the last 33 years in the top flight of English football.
The weight of history is actually about acute frustration about under-achievement, not a belief we have a right to be in the Premiership more than anyone else.
I'm not going to list again where we come in terms of under-achievement - Dazzler will hopefully be along soon - but that is the real and very understandable issue.

The way I read it, that's the point of the article, he/she is saying that we shouldn't have this 'weight of history' because it's misguided. Similarly, if the bar is set too high then we 'under-achieve' but as you say, if our rightful place is in the Championship, as it is now, then have we under-achieved ? Under-achieved in terms of winning anything, no argument, but that's not what is being said.
 
The way I read it, that's the point of the article, he/she is saying that we shouldn't have this 'weight of history' because it's misguided. Similarly, if the bar is set too high then we 'under-achieve' but as you say, if our rightful place is in the Championship, as it is now, then have we under-achieved ? Under-achieved in terms of winning anything, no argument, but that's not what is being said.

you could argue (even though Len's spent a lifetime at it, but only recently really does it wash) that we under achieve in terms of the budgets we set, the wages we pay etc.

No mention in the article about the height of the bar being set buy our chairman though, and it's that against which many measure.

UTB
 
The way I read it, that's the point of the article, he/she is saying that we shouldn't have this 'weight of history' because it's misguided. Similarly, if the bar is set too high then we 'under-achieve' but as you say, if our rightful place is in the Championship, as it is now, then have we under-achieved ? Under-achieved in terms of winning anything, no argument, but that's not what is being said.

But our under-achievement has nothing to do with our support, it's about our management down the years.
Anything which seeks to cloud the issue by looking at fans' attitudes when we've spent five of 33 years in the top flight is missing the target.
And us older Blades know that SUFC were never known for muck and nettles until Bassett, necessarily, came along.
Before that, the culture at the Lane was very different.
 
But our under-achievement has nothing to do with our support, it's about our management down the years.
Anything which seeks to cloud the issue by looking at fans' attitudes when we've spent five of 33 years in the top flight is missing the target.
And us older Blades know that SUFC were never known for muck and nettles until Bassett, necessarily, came along.
Before that, the culture at the Lane was very different.


From the early 70's to the late 80's, there was no culture of any sort at The Lane, on or off the field. Bassett gave us some long lost pride on the pitch, a decade later McCabe delivered off it.

At least the current board have managed to get the club to (at least) where it should be off the field. It's transfering it to the pitch we haven't gaffered yet.

UTB
 
"Getting to the Prem should be considered an achievement, but not for us. Blades fans would simply say: “Back to where we belong - now the real work begins”. It is this line of thinking, the weight of our history, which is currently holding us back and sets a backdrop against which success is always expected and failure requires public floggings and self mutilation."

What is this weight of history? We've spent five of the last 33 years in the top flight of English football.
The weight of history is actually about acute frustration about under-achievement, not a belief we have a right to be in the Premiership more than anyone else.
I'm not going to list again where we come in terms of under-achievement - Dazzler will hopefully be along soon - but that is the real and very understandable issue.


ooh, ooh! A chance to do one of my lists. Clubs who have won a major trophy since we last won one in 1925 (last trophy in brackets):

1. Luton (1988 LC)
2. Middlesbrough (2004 LC)
3. Derby (1975 League)
4. Arsenal (2005 FAC)
5. QPR (1967 LC)
6. Chelsea (2009 FAC)
7. Charlton (1947 FAC)
8. Wimbledon (1988 FAC)
9. West Ham (1980 FAC)
10. Tottenham (2008 LC)
11. Man City (1976 LC)
12. Man Utd (2009 League and LC)
13. Bolton (1958 FAC)
14. Southampton (1976 FAC)
15. Portsmouth (2008 FAC)
16. Blackpool (1953 FAC)
17. Blackburn (2003 LC)
18. Preston (1938 FAC)
19. Burnley (1960 League)
20. Leicester (2000 LC)
21. Liverpool (2006 FAC)
22. Everton (1995 FAC)
23. Norwich (1985 LC)
24. Nottingham Forest (1990 LC)
25. Oxford (1986 LC)
26. Wednesday (1991 LC)
27. Stoke (1972 LC)
28. Ipswich (1981 UEFA Cup)
29. Newcastle (1969 Fairs Cup)
30. Sunderland (1973 FAC)
31. Villa (1996 LC)
32. Birimingham (1963 LC)
33. Coventry (1987 FAC)
34 Wolves (1980 LC)
35. WBA (1968 FAC)
36. Leeds (1992 League)
37. Huddersfield (1926 League)
38. Swindon (1969 LC)
39. Cardiff (1927 FAC)

and the following have also reached a major final since we last did in 1936

40. Brighton (1983 FAC)
41. Fulham (1975 FAC)
42. Millwall (2004 FAC)
43. Palace (1990 FAC)
44. Wigan (2006 LC)
45. Oldham (1990 LC)
46. Watford (1984 FAC)
47. Tranmere (2000 LC)
48. Rochdale (1962 LC)
49. Rotherham (1961 LC)

That is some record of under achievement....
 
ooh, ooh! A chance to do one of my lists. Clubs who have won a major trophy since we last won one in 1925 (last trophy in brackets):

1. Luton (1988 LC)
2. Middlesbrough (2004 LC)
3. Derby (1975 League)
4. Arsenal (2005 FAC)
5. QPR (1967 LC)
6. Chelsea (2009 FAC)
7. Charlton (1947 FAC)
8. Wimbledon (1988 FAC)
9. West Ham (1980 FAC)
10. Tottenham (2008 LC)
11. Man City (1976 LC)
12. Man Utd (2009 League and LC)
13. Bolton (1958 FAC)
14. Southampton (1976 FAC)
15. Portsmouth (2008 FAC)
16. Blackpool (1953 FAC)
17. Blackburn (2003 LC)
18. Preston (1938 FAC)
19. Burnley (1960 League)
20. Leicester (2000 LC)
21. Liverpool (2006 FAC)
22. Everton (1995 FAC)
23. Norwich (1985 LC)
24. Nottingham Forest (1990 LC)
25. Oxford (1986 LC)
26. Wednesday (1991 LC)
27. Stoke (1972 LC)
28. Ipswich (1981 UEFA Cup)
29. Newcastle (1969 Fairs Cup)
30. Sunderland (1973 FAC)
31. Villa (1996 LC)
32. Birimingham (1963 LC)
33. Coventry (1987 FAC)
34 Wolves (1980 LC)
35. WBA (1968 FAC)
36. Leeds (1992 League)
37. Huddersfield (1926 League)
38. Swindon (1969 LC)
39. Cardiff (1927 FAC)

and the following have also reached a major final since we last did in 1936

40. Brighton (1983 FAC)
41. Fulham (1975 FAC)
42. Millwall (2004 FAC)
43. Palace (1990 FAC)
44. Wigan (2006 LC)
45. Oldham (1990 LC)
46. Watford (1984 FAC)
47. Tranmere (2000 LC)
48. Rochdale (1962 LC)
49. Rotherham (1961 LC)

That is some record of under achievement....

One thing we can be proud of though is that despite being 50th in the 'success tables', we are achieving attendances of around 25k on a regular basis. I wonder how many other clubs would get the same support if the were 'starved of success' for as long as we have ?
 
Anything which seeks to cloud the issue by looking at fans' attitudes when we've spent five of 33 years in the top flight is missing the target.

The fact we HAVE spent 28 years outside the top flight in the last 33 should suggest that we are where we should be given that's getting on for a third of our history. The article says that a lot of our fans expect us to be higher and better than we are, recent history suggests otherwise.

No-one's saying that there aren't reasons for us not winning and no-one's saying it's the fans fault but you can't deny that the 'we should be doing better than XXXXX' attitude is prevalent, as was proved this week with the discussions on Boro.
 
The fact we HAVE spent 28 years outside the top flight in the last 33 should suggest that we are where we should be given that's getting on for a third of our history. The article says that a lot of our fans expect us to be higher and better than we are, recent history suggests otherwise.

No-one's saying that there aren't reasons for us not winning and no-one's saying it's the fans fault but you can't deny that the 'we should be doing better than XXXXX' attitude is prevalent, as was proved this week with the discussions on Boro.

I think we were the 15th best supported club in the country last season. isn't the argument (and I think it is a valid one) that with the level of resources that level of support entails, we should be doing better than spending around 12% of our time in the top division and not winning anything in 84 years and not reaching a major final in 73 years.
 
I think we were the 15th best supported club in the country last season. isn't the argument (and I think it is a valid one) that with the level of resources that level of support entails, we should be doing better than spending around 12% of our time in the top division and not winning anything in 84 years and not reaching a major final in 73 years.

I think it proves we have loyal fans (or gullible !) at the moment. It's not that long since the 8,000 at your favourite game though is it. As someone pointed out elsewhere, the last couple of seasons have been a rarity in that we have been able to compete financially with the rest of the division we're in but that certainly hasn't been the case over the period we're talking about.
 
I think it proves we have loyal fans (or gullible !) at the moment. It's not that long since the 8,000 at your favourite game though is it. As someone pointed out elsewhere, the last couple of seasons have been a rarity in that we have been able to compete financially with the rest of the division we're in but that certainly hasn't been the case over the period we're talking about.

6647 it was :-)

I take your point but whilst we may not always have been the 15th best supported team in the country, I would hazard a guess we have generally been at least around the 20th-25th best supported in the period we are talking about, so I think my general point still stands.
 
6647 it was :-)

I take your point but whilst we may not always have been the 15th best supported team in the country, I would hazard a guess we have generally been at least around the 20th-25th best supported in the period we are talking about, so I think my general point still stands.

and isn't 20th - 25th exactly where we've been in that period ?
 
6647 it was :-)

I take your point but whilst we may not always have been the 15th best supported team in the country, I would hazard a guess we have generally been at least around the 20th-25th best supported in the period we are talking about, so I think my general point still stands.

the 10,000 average gates around that period need to be viewed in terms of the support elsewhere. I know you'll put some meat on this, but from memory many of the "big clubs" struggled to get 20,000 averages in that period.

UTB
 

But an average can be distorted by a few very poor seasons. Our median position would probably be higher than that.
 
the 10,000 average gates around that period need to be viewed in terms of the support elsewhere. I know you'll put some meat on this, but from memory many of the "big clubs" struggled to get 20,000 averages in that period.

UTB


Our lowest ever recorded league average was very slightly under 10,000 for the 1986-7 season.

But as you say, to put it in context only 9 top division clubs averaged over 20,000 and only 3 of those averaged more than 30,000. And two top flight clubs got less than us.
 
But an average can be distorted by a few very poor seasons. Our mean position would probably be higher than that.

I thought the average was the mean, aren't you thinking of the median?

in order, since 1976, our finishing positions were as follows:

9
13
14
18
20
23
23
22
22
25
26
28
28
28
29
29
29
30
30
31
33
33
34
36
40
42
42
46
47
55
56
65
69

From that I work out our median position as 29th which is not that different
 
The fact we HAVE spent 28 years outside the top flight in the last 33 should suggest that we are where we should be given that's getting on for a third of our history. The article says that a lot of our fans expect us to be higher and better than we are, recent history suggests otherwise.

No-one's saying that there aren't reasons for us not winning and no-one's saying it's the fans fault but you can't deny that the 'we should be doing better than XXXXX' attitude is prevalent, as was proved this week with the discussions on Boro.

The attitude's prevalent because we obviously should be doing better than we are on the grounds of resources, support base, even playing squad.
Nothing to do with fans' attitudes, history or anything else.
The wider issue of under-achievement over the last 30 years, likewise.
 
The attitude's prevalent because we obviously should be doing better than we are on the grounds of resources, support base, even playing squad.
Nothing to do with fans' attitudes, history or anything else.
The wider issue of under-achievement over the last 30 years, likewise.

othert than the last few season, I really can't agree that our resources, support, playing squad etc have under achieved. We've been exactly where we deserved.

The support base has only recently been teased out through good off field management, and that's another point that always mysteriously escapes you. :)

UTB
 
The attitude's prevalent because we obviously should be doing better than we are on the grounds of resources, support base, even playing squad.
Nothing to do with fans' attitudes, history or anything else.
The wider issue of under-achievement over the last 30 years, likewise.

if we've averaged 29th position or whatever over the last 33 years then if you can successfully argue that our resources and support warrant higher over that period fair enough but I doubt you could.
 
"Getting to the Prem should be considered an achievement, but not for us. Blades fans would simply say: “Back to where we belong - now the real work begins”. It is this line of thinking, the weight of our history, which is currently holding us back and sets a backdrop against which success is always expected and failure requires public floggings and self mutilation."

What is this weight of history? We've spent five of the last 33 years in the top flight of English football.
The weight of history is actually about acute frustration about under-achievement, not a belief we have a right to be in the Premiership more than anyone else.
I'm not going to list again where we come in terms of under-achievement - Dazzler will hopefully be along soon - but that is the real and very understandable issue.

Agreed Len. Arrogant twaddle in my opinion.
 
othert than the last few season, I really can't agree that our resources, support, playing squad etc have under achieved. We've been exactly where we deserved.

The support base has only recently been teased out through good off field management, and that's another point that always mysteriously escapes you. :)

UTB

That period's included spells in the bottom two divisions which I would gently suggest represents significant under-achievement for SUFC.
We've been where we deserve in playing terms obviously but in terms of our potential I fail to see how anyone can argue we haven't massively under-achieved in the last three decades.
The support base was there in the 4th division as well which I would also gently suggest is a bit further back than recently.
 
That period's included spells in the bottom two divisions which I would gently suggest represents significant under-achievement for SUFC.
We've been where we deserve in playing terms obviously but in terms of our potential I fail to see how anyone can argue we haven't massively under-achieved in the last three decades.
The support base was there in the 4th division as well which I would also gently suggest is a bit further back than recently.

It also includes spells in the top division.

You can pick seasons where we have under-achieved and you can find seasons where we have performed better than we could have expected given our resources etc I still think top half of the 2nd division is about where we've deserved to be in the last 33 years.
 

As a matter of interest (or maybe not!), I've copied what Darren has done re league placings, but for the period from the second world war up until, and including the 1970-1 promotion season.
(I know, I need to expand my social life.)

Our average place was 20.28 and our median placing was 22nd.

Not sure what this proves other than that perhaps for the past 65 years we have tended to be a bottom of the top flight/top half second flight club.

But we did win the Football league North in the final wartime league season!
 

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