Baldock - Fitness problems?

[BladeTillIDie]

Anyone know if he's always had niggling injuries in his career? Seems Injured far too much since he's signed for us.

 

[Beans]

He played 34 out of 46 matches last season, that’s pretty good going! 37 out of 46 the season before. So doesn’t seem to be any particular issue.

 

[BladeTillIDie]

Must just be this season then. I remember him having an injury when he first signed though.

 

[KoppedOff]

Illness rather than injury last night, supposedly. Flu? Migraine? Dodgy Lamb Bhuna?

Either way, he’s unlucky; never did anything wrong, just Freeman took his chance when he got it. Then when GB’s up for his chance, he gets whatevers up with him and lo and behold, Freeman did better. Maybe its the boot up the arse Freeman needed, but still a shame Georgey B didnt get his opportunity.

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

A wing back who is very average in the back position and even less average in the wing position.

As Freeman has disappointed since his return , this is definitely an area we need to strengthen in the JTW .

 

[LenTednTony]

A wing back who is very average in the back position and even less average in the wing position.

As Freeman has disappointed since his return , this is definitely an area we need to strengthen in the JTW .

You are deffo watching a different player to me then! Freeman is very good value in my mind. If he plays badly when the team play badly as a whole, it’s a poor team performance and not one of an individual as such. Yes, I only go to home games but to say he has disappointed is, in my mind, totally, totally wrong.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

You are deffo watching a different player to me then! Freeman is very good value in my mind. If he plays badly when the team play badly as a whole, it’s a poor team performance and not one of an individual as such. Yes, I only go to home games but to say he has disappointed is, in my mind, totally, totally wrong.

Freeman is currently suffering a major dip. It’s a bit baffling, since we all know he’s capable of so much more.

During the promotion season he was outstanding, and one of the players we had, at that stage, who was clearly capable of moving up a division. Light years from today’s version, who struggles to find a man in the same shirt, and who spends an unlikely percentage of every game on his arse.

Is there perhaps a parallel with Coutts, whose first season back after a major injury was also poor? Coutts, like Freeman, also seemed lethargic, lacking in self-belief, and looked like he’d lost the muscle-memory—or whatever we call it—that allowed him to do the basic technical things.

That said, Freeman, just like Coutts in his first season back, still also shows flashes of quality in every game. Fingers crossed that he finds his way back to his best.

 

[BigBed]

Freemans ace, he was on the verge of the boot and it turned him around, and he's far better than Baldock, but everyone has off days and everyone needs a rest at some point, he didn't get one over international break remember.

 

[SwissBlade]

Freeman the other night - set Norwood up for our 2nd, took the quick throw for Washington to set Leon up.

 

[Houston_Blade]

I think the current poor form of Freeman has led to the higher opinion of Baldock. He's solid but unspectacular.

 

[Gin&Juice]

I think the current poor form of Freeman has led to the higher opinion of Baldock. He's solid but unspectacular.

Freeman is the better player. But he needs a couple of games off.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Baldock's a far better player, until he gets in the final third. Helps us with our transition game too, as he actually has pace - a rare commodity in this United side.When Freeman's passing game is as atrocious as it's been over the last few months, there is no reason to put him in the team over Baldock.We all know he can't defend, especially when he's in bad form.

 

[FTPE]

I still think defensively Freeman is making a lot of mistakes recently.
I can think of two big ones Saturday, his passing was good and his end product was much better again.

Baldock is fantastic, I think he's great. Tough as nails, never let's his head drop.
His crossing and final ball is infuriating though.

 

[DronnieBlade]

A wing back who is very average in the back position and even less average in the wing position.

As Freeman has disappointed since his return , this is definitely an area we need to strengthen in the JTW .

I seriously could not disagree with you more.

The singular area of the pitch where additional cover is not required.

UTB

 

[Baaaaaaa Blades]

I still think defensively Freeman is making a lot of mistakes recently.
I can think of two big ones Saturday, his passing was good and his end product was much better again.

Baldock is fantastic, I think he's great. Tough as nails, never let's his head drop.
His crossing and final ball is infuriating though.

if we could merge the two that would be perfect
I do also like Baldock and think he is a good player with great energy and maybe slightly better at defending than Freeman - also he has more pace which will help !

But Freeman does deliver in the final 3rd , as you say Baldock's crossing and final ball is not great whilst Freeman seems to to be very switched on with working with Bash and the front men and this season has shown what we missed last season with his assists /general front play

For me Freeman is our first choice but needs a rest as seems very weary and is not defending crosses /shots from his side which is costing goals , gives George a chance to shine and hopefully he can put in some great performances and give CW a headache

 

[blademark]

It's an interesting debate this one, and opinions are clearly divided. Personally I don't think either are good enough to move up to the next level. I would love to sign someone like Connor Robets of Swansea. Been very impressed with him.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Freeman the other night - set Norwood up for our 2nd, took the quick throw for Washington to set Leon up.

You beat me to that! I only saw the highlights, but his contribution to 2 of the goals was crucial. And if he is lacking energy, how did he get ahead of Basham for the second goal at Rotherham? A genuine question: can the medical teams and the stats people identify energy problems with players coming back from long-term injuries? 3 cases recently come to mind - Brayford after his knee injury, Coutts in his first 2 years at the Lane, and now Freeman. Is it just a question of getting back to their highest standards? Is it in the mind? Or does the body need a long time to get from being able to play ok for 90 mins to being able to play with high energy for 90 mins? Whatever the answer(s) to those questions, players with a bad injury deserve full support - it must be a horrible time for them.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Baldock's a far better player, until he gets in the final third.

.........but that's the key element to how we play the game in Wilders eye - on the front foot trying to create goals in the final third.

Baldock IS the better defender - but our wing back style means we have to create oodles of chances for our average strikers to score goals - except they don't.

Our play v Brentford should have resulted in 1-4 away win and not the nail biter it ended up as.

We simply don't create as much with Baldock playing wing back - his skill level in the final third is way below Freemans.

If we played 442, then it's Baldock every day of the week.

The solution is to get Freeman out of his lazy/dozy moments that he suffers from - not to replace him with an inferior wing back.

UTB

 

[Houston_Blade]

It's an interesting debate this one, and opinions are clearly divided. Personally I don't think either are good enough to move up to the next level. I would love to sign someone like Connor Robets of Swansea. Been very impressed with him.

I wonder how many thought that Simon Francis was good enough? He's now thriving at Bournemouth. To me Baldock is a similar build to Francis and defensively in the PL would do ok. When you need someone bombing on I'd rather have Freeman, but if we ever get to the PL I don't think this current style will work so we'd need someone like Baldock.

 

[BerksBlade]

our wing back style means we have to create oodles of chances for our average strikers to score goals - except they don't.

One of the stats Sky came up with recently is that Billy's "goals scored per shot" ratio is the best in the League by some margin. So maybe it's also the type of chances we're creating, not the number?

 

[Eric Cartman]

A wing back who is very average in the back position and even less average in the wing position.

As Freeman has disappointed since his return , this is definitely an area we need to strengthen in the JTW .

Eh? RWB is one of the only positions we have complete quality in depth.

 

[blademark]

One of the stats Sky came up with recently is that Billy's "goals scored per shot" ratio is the best in the League by some margin. So maybe it's also the type of chances we're creating, not the number?

Agreed.

 

[nopigfansintown]

.........but that's the key element to how we play the game in Wilders eye - on the front foot trying to create goals in the final third.

Baldock IS the better defender - but our wing back style means we have to create oodles of chances for our average strikers to score goals - except they don't.

Our play v Brentford should have resulted in 1-4 away win and not the nail biter it ended up as.

We simply don't create as much with Baldock playing wing back - his skill level in the final third is way below Freemans.

If we played 442, then it's Baldock every day of the week.

The solution is to get Freeman out of his lazy/dozy moments that he suffers from - not to replace him with an inferior wing back.

UTB

A wing backs job is to both attack and defend. It's essentially a cross between a full back and a winger. Freeman's skill level in the final third has been very average this season.To be frank, shocking in a number of games. If he's not cutting it going forward, he offers very little. I would put the majority of goals against down to his "defending", and give him a four out of ten for his performances this season. I also think it's begun to inhibit Bash's game: he knows he has bombscare next to him, so he plays a more withdrwn game resulting in less overlaps in the attacking half. I agree with a lot of people, that Freeman doesn't seem fit enough and rapidly deteriorates substantially as the games go on.It was a bad injury he had last season and we might be seeing that he hasn't fully recovered from it yet. I back him to come back, but he needs dropping for his own sake as well as the team's.There'll be lots of scope for rotation over the Christmas period so they're bound to all get a chance anyway.
Another thing I've noticed: teams are increasingly getting to grips with our formation. There are more wingers and three up top systems we're coming up against. When his happens the wing backs defensive skills will come under more scrutiny. The spaces to exploit are between the right sided and left sided centre backs and the wing backs which calls into question their defensive skills. I agree with all your other comments.

 

[SwissBlade]

You beat me to that! I only saw the highlights, but his contribution to 2 of the goals was crucial. And if he is lacking energy, how did he get ahead of Basham for the second goal at Rotherham? A genuine question: can the medical teams and the stats people identify energy problems with players coming back from long-term injuries? 3 cases recently come to mind - Brayford after his knee injury, Coutts in his first 2 years at the Lane, and now Freeman. Is it just a question of getting back to their highest standards? Is it in the mind? Or does the body need a long time to get from being able to play ok for 90 mins to being able to play with high energy for 90 mins? Whatever the answer(s) to those questions, players with a bad injury deserve full support - it must be a horrible time for them.

I don’t believe that freeman lacks fitness or energy, he’s had a few below par games, but he’s still getting up and down the pitch

Players coming back from long term injuries need to be handled properly. There will be signs of fatigue in things like heart rate analysis but also the flexibility will be reduced and recovery times will be increased.

The club have to be praised for how they handle the players returning from injuries and how shorter term injuries are managed. We get very few repeat injuries.

Look across the city and you will see how badly injuries can be handled.

Coutts and brayfords recoveries were very different, Brayfords was much more complicated and picked up other knocks

Coutts, as far as I am aware has come back well and not picked up any other injuries, he’s just been unable to dislodge the current midfield

 

[Fulwood Blade]

One of the stats Sky came up with recently is that Billy's "goals scored per shot" ratio is the best in the League by some margin. So maybe it's also the type of chances we're creating, not the number?

yes, it could be.

For me our play deserves more goals and actually playing better round the 18 yard box is much better than last season, particularly after Xmas. As for Billy - he's great when teams play an open game, but when they play a tight defence game he just seems very average and none effective.

CW doesn't appear to want a patient game - Clough sort of played a patient game - perhaps with the wrong players. CW has always talked about front foot football, risk creates reward was another statement from earlier in the season.

Back to this thread - Baldock is less risk, Freeman is more risk, but Freemans type of play seems more suited to what CW wants from his players.

Baldock is a decent full back - this is what he played for MK Dons - not a wing back. My entire discussion revolves around how CW wants to play the game as against being anti Baldock.

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

A wing backs job is to both attack and defend. It's essentially a cross between a full back and a winger. Freeman's skill level in the final third has been very average this season.To be frank, shocking in a number of games. If he's not cutting it going forward, he offers very little. I would put the majority of goals against down to his "defending", and give him a four out of ten for his performances this season. I also think it's begun to inhibit Bash's game: he knows he has bombscare next to him, so he plays a more withdrwn game resulting in less overlaps in the attacking half. I agree with a lot of people, that Freeman doesn't seem fit enough and rapidly deteriorates substantially as the games go on.It was a bad injury he had last season and we might be seeing that he hasn't fully recovered from it yet. I back him to come back, but he needs dropping for his own sake as well as the team's.There'll be lots of scope for rotation over the Christmas period so they're bound to all get a chance anyway.
Another thing I've noticed: teams are increasingly getting to grips with our formation. There are more wingers and three up top systems we're coming up against. When his happens the wing backs defensive skills will come under more scrutiny. The spaces to exploit are between the right sided and left sided centre backs and the wing backs which calls into question their defensive skills. I agree with all your other comments.

It's a really difficult one to resolve, as we are seeing with this thread.

Freeman has always been a dozy defender but considering his part in two of the goals v Brentford as to whether CW puts Baldock back in. It wouldn't be a surprise either way.

UTB

 

[SwissBlade]

I wonder how many thought that Simon Francis was good enough? He's now thriving at Bournemouth. To me Baldock is a similar build to Francis and defensively in the PL would do ok. When you need someone bombing on I'd rather have Freeman, but if we ever get to the PL I don't think this current style will work so we'd need someone like Baldock.

I’d put money on Baldock being faster than Freeman.

However, Freeman edges it for me as he puts better balls into the more dangerous areas.

 

[Gimli]

A wing back who is very average in the back position and even less average in the wing position.

As Freeman has disappointed since his return , this is definitely an area we need to strengthen in the JTW .

I think maybe you expect too much. We are, after all, a relatively newly promoted side with one of the lower end budgets in this division. The quality of players we have considering those two things is excellent - I believe both Freeman and Baldock are very good players at this level and I would struggle to find another team in the championship who would be disappointed to have these two as their RWB/RB options.

One is better as a RB, the other as a RWB and fortunately for Freeman we play with the latter.

Both great players and not an area we need to strengthen.

 

[BushBlade]

I wonder how many thought that Simon Francis was good enough? He's now thriving at Bournemouth. To me Baldock is a similar build to Francis and defensively in the PL would do ok. When you need someone bombing on I'd rather have Freeman, but if we ever get to the PL I don't think this current style will work so we'd need someone like Baldock.

A lot as far as I recall. He was highly rated when he first joined us and his performances reflected that. Then he started drinking heavily and doing other stuff (which he’s subsequently admitted to) and turned to shit.

 

[nopigfansintown]

I think maybe you expect too much. We are, after all, a relatively newly promoted side with one of the lower end budgets in this division. The quality of players we have considering those two things is excellent - I believe both Freeman and Baldock are very good players at this level and I would struggle to find another team in the championship who would be disappointed to have these two as their RWB/RB options.

One is better as a RB, the other as a RWB and fortunately for Freeman we play with the latter.

Both great players and not an area we need to strengthen.

Exactly. Who are these wing backs who are much better? I certainly haven't seen them.