International breaks

[jt64]

They're at least trying something different with the Nations League, it's not ideal (3 team groups are a bit comedy but until Catalonia etc declare independence there's not much you can do about it) but it's a bit better than friendlies.

Don't know why they even have groups anymore. Might have made sense logistically back in the day, but not now. Just have one huge league. Draw the first two games at random (seed it a bit so it's not completely random). After two games, draw another two based on the league standings with the proviso that nobody plays each other twice. Lather rinse repeat, after 10 (12?) matches the top however many qualify for the Euros.

Still get the minnows having a payday to start but it rapidly becomes the good playing the good, the crap playing the crap and everyone in between in a huge high stakes knifefight to qualify

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Couldn't agree more.



Sorry but it has been done for the wrong reasons entirely.

The guardians of the game should be cutting down the number of games for the top players, not increasing them. The international breaks for friendlies were a joke before this, so more competitive games for the top players are not needed.

Some jokingly compared it to the Paint Pot trophy and maybe they had a point. The top 12 European teams should not be playing. Let San Marino play Moldova, with the winners going on to be promoted and play Iceland and Roumania. They can even have a little trophy and an open top bus from the Lane to the Town Hall if they want.

I hear you Brother. But, I'm just a football fan. I'm not really bothered about an academic argument as to why this much better Nations League format was introduced. It's just a much better format, irrespective of the reasons for introducing it.

 

[broomhillblade]

Time was when football was played at 3 pm on a Saturday afternoon, with an occasional midweek evening game thrown in for good measure.

Then along came Sky with their pots of gold and suddenly the weekend stretched from Fridays through until Mondays, at odd times of day. Very disrupting to the system.

Now we have regular international breaks. Twice we have been building up a nice head of steam, only for an enforced break to be thrown into the works. It happened in September, then in October, and it will happen again in November.
I couldn't give a toss about the new international tournament. I want to follow the Blades, week in and week out.

My fear is that some of the less hardened supporters who have been attracted to Bramall Lane in recent years will lose the habit and find something else to do on Saturdays. Where's the benefit in that?

 

[YES Blade]

Couldn't agree more.



Sorry but it has been done for the wrong reasons entirely.

The guardians of the game should be cutting down the number of games for the top players, not increasing them. The international breaks for friendlies were a joke before this, so more competitive games for the top players are not needed.

Some jokingly compared it to the Paint Pot trophy and maybe they had a point. The top 12 European teams should not be playing. Let San Marino play Moldova, with the winners going on to be promoted and play Iceland and Roumania. They can even have a little trophy and an open top bus from the Lane to the Town Hall if they want.

So why should the number of games be cut at the expense of international football? Why not cut the premier league down to 18? Make Championship, League One and Two at 22 teams each?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Time was when football was played at 3 pm on a Saturday afternoon, with an occasional midweek evening game thrown in for good measure.

Then along came Sky with their pots of gold and suddenly the weekend stretched from Fridays through until Mondays, at odd times of day. Very disrupting to the system.

Now we have regular international breaks. Twice we have been building up a nice head of steam, only for an enforced break to be thrown into the works. It happened in September, then in October, and it will happen again in November.
I couldn't give a toss about the new international tournament. I want to follow the Blades, week in and week out.

My fear is that some of the less hardened supporters who have been attracted to Bramall Lane in recent years will lose the habit and find something else to do on Saturdays. Where's the benefit in that?

broomhillblade
Correct. Twice we've had the chance to give some of the players a well earned break, and consolidate a bit. While sending a clear virtue signal to ALL potential future signings who may be proud to play for their Nation. We're Sheffield United, we treat our players well, if you want to play for your country in the UEFA Nations League, you'll get every support from us, we're not a head in the sands club, come & sign, bring your Caps with you, what a Club, what a marvelous fucking club.
Oh, and while I'm at it a reminder to all the "I can't wait another minute for the next game, it's not fair, Blades" - May to August, how did you cope?

 

[broomhillblade]

"Twice we've had the chance to give some of the players a well earned break". Christ, it's only mid-October. The squad is surely big enough to cope. (Part of the problem was that they had to play an extra midweek game to make up for the first international break).

My main point was that if some fans too often get a taste of life without football on a Saturday afternoon, they may enjoy it and lose the habit.

"May to August, how did you cope?" Since you ask - with great difficulty.

broomhillblade
Correct. Twice we've had the chance to give some of the players a well earned break, and consolidate a bit. While sending a clear virtue signal to ALL potential future signings who may be proud to play for their Nation. We're Sheffield United, we treat our players well, if you want to play for your country in the UEFA Nations League, you'll get every support from us, we're not a head in the sands club, come & sign, bring your Caps with you, what a Club, what a marvelous fucking club.
Oh, and while I'm at it a reminder to all the "I can't wait another minute for the next game, it's not fair, Blades" - May to August, how did you cope?

 

[essexblade73]

Don't care about international football. About as exciting as watching glue set

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Don't care about international football. About as exciting as watching glue set

This line of argument is of course a load of bollocks. But, it's marginally better than the - look at me, I'm such a Big Blade I demand they play in my front garden every single Saturday - argument.

 

[Paulus]

It seems to be a more competitive idea and at least England will be playing sides that are better than us, so it works from that point.

But why couldn’t they make it so that the friendlies are abolished completely? Do wales really need to play Spain in a friendly when, if they made the groups a proper size, the international break wouldn’t be wasted and that all teams played competitive games.

Friendlies at this stage in the season serve zero purpose

I'm with Ball Sup on this and I think things will be a lot clearer after a full run through of this competition. I don't think it helped the image of the tournament in this country that last nights match was so weird due to the lack of supporters but that isn't really a problem of the competition itself.

I think there is still a role for friendlies, it's clear that judging by the squad he's picked Southgate wants to experiment with new players and systems but it is not ideal to do that in competitive matches, he was very conservative with his team last night (and they were as crap as I expected that team to be) If he picks a team full of rookies against Spain we could get pumped which I don't think would be great, especially for the new guys so I suspect he's picked people like Mount mainly to have a look at in training which again is not ideal.

Another point that had passed me by until last night is that the Nations League matches are also important because they will be a key element of the FIFA rankings system that determines which 'pot' teams go in for the draws for the major tournaments. So for Northern Ireland for example if they end up being relegated from group B and having lost their first two Nations League matches this seems pretty probable, it might well mean that they drop a pot in the Euro 2020 qualifying draw and will therefore make it more difficult to qualify for that tournament.

 

[bladesadviser]

I can't knock any tournament that lets you watch Scotland lose to Israel with further potential for them to be relegated from a three that also includes Albania

 

[SteveBlade]

I can see where you're coming from now Ball_Sup (Phil). You're a proper football fan.

I think it's really boring to watch a lot of the time.

 

[jt64]

"Twice we've had the chance to give some of the players a well earned break". Christ, it's only mid-October. The squad is surely big enough to cope.

So we use the squad that is surely big enough to cope, and people will moan about changing a winning team, not starting your strongest XI every game etc etc, you can't have it both ways

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I can see where you're coming from now Ball_Sup (Phil). You're a proper football fan.

I think it's really boring to watch a lot of the time.

Gibraltar have just won a competitive FIFA/UEFA match for the first time. The players went loopy on the whistle. That has been made possible by the Nations League. Superb competition....

 

[Blade82]

The UEFA Nations League is the best thing to happen to International Football in my lifetime. A start towards proper like v like, league football with promotion & relegation, just like we have at club level week in week out.
In competitive games, England played Spain at the 1982 World Cup, then in EURO 96, and then again just the other week at Wembley in the Nations League. In that time, (since 1982) in competitive games we've had Andorra four times, San Marino six times, Macedonia four times & Luxembourg four times. Absolute nonsense. The sooner FIFA introduce a Nations League, and we can get proper competitive games against Brazil & Argentina the better. UEFA are shit - but this Nations League is a real Game Changer

So you're saying that England v Spain is "The Johnson's Paint", but England v San Marino year in year out isn't?
Good one......

We’ll still have to play Andorra, San Marino etc in qualifying for the Euros and World Cups though.

This tournament is just a way of glamorising friendlies and will actually stop us playing against the likes of Brazil & Argentina etc as we’ll be paired with other European teams probably the likes of Czech Republic and Sweden when we’re relegated.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

We’ll still have to play Andorra, San Marino etc in qualifying for the Euros and World Cups though.

This tournament is just a way of glamorising friendlies and will actually stop us playing against the likes of Brazil & Argentina etc as we’ll be paired with other European teams probably the likes of Czech Republic and Sweden when we’re relegated.

Negative
This is a forerunner for a FIFA World Nations League. Then we'll really crack on. England v Brazil, Argentina, Colombia in competitive games. Come on people, get with the programme. It's fucking 11 v 11, for a cup, some medals, and players & fans going mental.

 

[Blade82]

Negative
This is a forerunner for a FIFA World Nations League. Then we'll really crack on. England v Brazil, Argentina, Colombia in competitive games. Come on people, get with the programme. It's fucking 11 v 11, for a cup, some medals, and players & fans going mental.

Isn’t the World Cup to prove the best in the world and Euros to prove the best in Europe?

Anything else is always going to play 2nd fiddle mate. You couldnt say England would be the best team in the Europe if we won this but didn’t get past the quarters in Euro2020 could you cmon.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

The World Cup is not a merit tournament. Teams get to it based on geography not performance. Also, a team can have a bad day & lose a single knock out game on the basis of a poor lino decision. A League system is far better for smoothing things out so that the best of the best shine through over a number of games. But, you know that already.

 

[metalblade]

These breaks get on my tits, no proper footy for two weeks and everywhere you look United fans are moaning and are at each others throats. That and I went to Meadowhall for the first time this year.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

FYI
A friendly is where two teams agree to play each other.
A competitive game is where the organisation running a tournament say who plays who.
You can't just put "glorified" in and think that means something.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Isn’t the World Cup to prove the best in the world and Euros to prove the best in Europe?

Anything else is always going to play 2nd fiddle mate. You couldnt say England would be the best team in the Europe if we won this but didn’t get past the quarters in Euro2020 could you cmon.

What? Here's how football works. One team wins a tournament & they can therefore claim to be the holders, until the next tournament, when someone else might win it. Portugal won EURO 2016 & can claim to be EURO Holders until 2020. Then, if some other Nation win it, that Nation can claim to be EURO Holders. If Spain were to win The Nations League 2019, they could claim to be Nations League holders until the next tournament in 2021. Jeez, is this thing switched on?

 

[Birdwell Blade]

I hear you Brother. But, I'm just a football fan. I'm not really bothered about an academic argument as to why this much better Nations League format was introduced. It's just a much better format, irrespective of the reasons for introducing it.

Better format than what? Am I missing something?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Better format than what? Am I missing something?

Fair point. That's made me reconsider. What I really mean is - I believe the UEFA Nations League to be a really important step forward. For the first time, it introduces a like v like League Format. Where teams get the chance to play teams "at their level". With a trophy & medals at the end of it. England have played Spain twice in competitive matches since 1982. But San Marino six times in the same period. i believe that is unbalanced & wrong. And the Nations League addresses that. In competitive games, Gibraltar are always paired with far superior opposition. Played 22. Lost 22. I believe the Nations League addresses that. Gibraltar won their first competitive game tonight.

I should just say - it's a superb format. Rather than a better format. Sorry.

 

[Birdwell Blade]

What? Here's how football works. One team wins a tournament & they can therefore claim to be the holders, until the next tournament, when someone else might win it. Portugal won EURO 2016 & can claim to be EURO Holders until 2020. Then, if some other Nation win it, that Nation can claim to be EURO Holders. If Spain were to win The Nations League 2019, they could claim to be Nations League holders until the next tournament in 2021. Jeez, is this thing switched on?

I admire your enthusiasm for literally any kind of football, but you are being a little stubborn here. You’re entitled to your opinion like everyone else, but your forceful and patronising (bordering on rude and intelligence-insulting) manner makes your point even more difficult to read.

I think we can all see that the vast majority aren’t fans of this thing, for good reason. They might not be friendlies but until now, they’ve certainly been treated like them, attended like them and watched like them.

Hopefully one day the tournament will become as fantastic as you say it is, for real.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Great, Birdwell Blade, someone who agrees with me at last.

 

[Birdwell Blade]

Great, Birdwell Blade, someone who agrees with me at last.

Ok love if it helps you sleep better

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Like you said, hopefully one day the tournament will become fantastic.
That is all I'm really trying to say. So, genuinely, I feel we are in agreement.
Also things happen much later here in Seville, so it's not time for sleep yet.

 

[bromtom]

My only criticism of the Nation's League so far is in the lower group games I've seen, teams seem to be quite happy to draw through I assume fear, though to be fair I've only watched The Irelands and Wales so far because of the United connection.

In general I think it's a great concept though, proper tests and consequences for teams.

Scotland being relegated might give them a much needed kick up the arse.

 

[Blade82]

My only criticism of the Nation's League so far is in the lower group games I've seen, teams seem to be quite happy to draw through I assume fear, though to be fair I've only watched The Irelands and Wales so far because of the United connection.

In general I think it's a great concept though, proper tests and consequences for teams.

Scotland being relegated might give them a much needed kick up the arse.

Scotland being relegated could do them a favour because if they win then win group d they would secure a playoff spot for the euros (something they wouldn’t do in normal qualifying).

Basically this tournament rewards teams for being shit and then UEFA and FIFA extend the number of teams at world cups and euros to make room.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Scotland being relegated could do them a favour because if they win then win group d they would secure a playoff spot for the euros (something they wouldn’t do in normal qualifying).

Basically this tournament rewards teams for being shit and then UEFA and FIFA extend the number of teams at world cups and euros to make room.

knockoffnigel
Like you, I am not a fan of using The Nations League as a last chance saloon, back door, qualification route to the EUROs. It's counter productive & devalues what I think is otherwise a great concept/format.

 

[grafikhaus]

Oh, and while I'm at it a reminder to all the "I can't wait another minute for the next game, it's not fair, Blades" - May to August, how did you cope?

Watch the World Cup? Seriously, I'm more concerned with losing (two already this season) Saturdays where the weather has been good (bit breezy yesterday, but warm and a good crowd at Hallam where people just want to watch a game) and where these games will be shoe-horned in on a freezing cold night in February or March, with the attendant drop in crowds.