Violence

[Bladesman]

When was the last time we had the violence on the sort of scale thats kicking off between Spammers and Millwall?

 

[BusheyBlade]

Not a good few days for the Spammers what with Davenport being stabbed, young Jack Collison's father dying and now tonight's violence against Milwall. Some might call me sick,but Karma anyone?

 

[Northyorksblade]

So Davenport being stabbed and Collison's Dad being killed is Karma?????? Yes, you're sick.

 

[Bladesman]

Not a good few days for the Spammers what with Davenport being stabbed, young Jack Collison's father dying and now tonight's violence against Milwall. Some might call me sick,but Karma anyone?

Very sick really.

Karma would be the club getting a decent punishment.

Not people being stabbed and being killed.

 

[Guesty]

Ah come on, hardly fair to say tragedies befalling people at West Ham is punishment for what the club's hierarchy did now is it?

Edit: Yeah what they said.

 

[Elsecar_Blade]

Uncalled for that one Bushey - its not karma. I'm sure you didn't mean it as it came across though ...

The scenes there tonight were so strange to see. I'm not used to it as hooligans were on the way out as I started watching footy as a boy and I struggle to understand exactly what they were attempting to achieve. However, if rumours are true, Millwall's fans are more to blame - apparently the Shammers fans were taunted with some rather sick songs about Callum Davenport's stabbing and Jack Collison's father. If that is true, I can understand why they were a little upset ...

It's easy to say that you wouldn't react in the same way but I think that in that sort of match, nobody actually knows what they'd do. When United and Wednesday drew 2-2 at the Lane the other year, there was a Wednesday fan sat three rows in front of me who stood and cheered when Wednesday went 2-0 up. Cue the scuffles on that row and the rows either side. Much as I like to think of myself as mild-mannered, the anger in me at that point would have been enough to get him a smack from me had he been sat near enough. The lad was dragged out but it made me think!

 

[Fiery Blade]

Yes, the undertones are still there at BDTBL - in blocks G & H Valad Stand there are still the morons who V sign and taunt the opposition fans - in fact they spend more time doing that than watching the game- and usually their knowledge of the game is minimal!

 

[mattbianco1]

When was the last time we had the violence on the sort of scale thats kicking off between Spammers and Millwall?

Next season. At Upton Park when it all kicks off.

As said i can see into the uture, not that i condone anything like that. I think THIS TIME West Ham should be punished.

 

[The Fox]

I dont think we've seen stuff like that at the lane for 20 years or so and rightly so .

The reason being that whilst we have our fair degree of nut cases , in the case of Wham and Millwall ,were talking scum of the highest order.

Its not hard to have no regard for other people or their kids , older supporters , property etc , its just the actions of lowlife scum.

I'm not saying that all our supporters are angels , but they're above this and i'm glad they are.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Yes, the undertones are still there at BDTBL - in blocks G & H Valad Stand there are still the morons who V sign and taunt the opposition fans - in fact they spend more time doing that than watching the game- and usually their knowledge of the game is minimal!

Block G certainly towards the pitch is now where the club put the academy lads and their families.

There are one or two who give it to the away fans but it really is one or two.

 

[Crouchy]

However, if rumours are true, Millwall's fans are more to blame - apparently the Shammers fans were taunted with some rather sick songs about Callum Davenport's stabbing and Jack Collison's father. If that is true, I can understand why they were a little upset ...

It's easy to say that you wouldn't react in the same way but I think that in that sort of match, nobody actually knows what they'd do.

I'm sorry, but I can't accept that. If they haven't the emotional maturity to ignore some drunken idiots overtly trying to wind them up then they shouldn't be out on their own after dark.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the violence outside the ground was in part planned in advance. That is if the media reports of hundreds of ticketless fans are true - they weren't there for a quiet drink and some pie and mash.

Our fat friend Mr Samuel in the Mail today at least has the grace not to attempt to justify any of it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...t-Ham--I-took-boys-real-game-rotten-joke.html

 

[Autumn]

Block H the academy lads sit there sometimes and groundstaff, you get blokes coming to sit where we are just to swear and start shit....but the regulars who sit there don't swear and do that....me being one of them. And if my kid ever swears in front of me, she'll be headlocked

 

[Elsecar_Blade]

I'm sorry, but I can't accept that. If they haven't the emotional maturity to ignore some drunken idiots overtly trying to wind them up then they shouldn't be out on their own after dark.

I'm not trying to justify their actions but what the Millwall fans were chanting was sick. 'Stand up if you stabbed Davenport' and 'Where's your Daddy gone?' at Collison ... An absolute disgrace and I can understand why it upset the Shammers fans. There would be a reaction to that in an derby game where emotions are high. I'm not excusing it, I'm just trying to understand it.

Mind you, that is the violence inside the ground. The stuff outside the ground was completely inexcusable and, much as UEFA/FIFA won't admit it, it will seriously damage our World Cup 2018/2022 chances.

 

[Bramley]

Apparently 200 odd Police at the ground as a pose to the usual 800 odd that West Ham have on a standard matchday. I think the Met have dropped a proverbial here, this was always a high risk fixture

 

[BarcaBlade]

If the police numbers were a quarter of the normal, then they are almost as much to blame as the idiots out for a scrap.

I'd agree with the idea that if they can't resist a few taunts, then they shouldn't be allowed out. To be honest, whilst I wouldn't be one for those chants, I can see the humour in the Davenport one.

The one about Collinson's dad falls the wrong side of good taste for sure, but reacting to it desn't help anyone.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Sorry Barca, you've lost me there, I can't see the comic element in the Davenport one.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but the lad has potentially had his career deliberately threatened by a mindless thug.

Nope, still not getting it.


On another slightly related note I've been having a disagreement with a Leeds United fan who claims that our record is as bad as there's. These seems total bollocks to me as I can remember Leeds tearing up Bournemouth and Chesterfield in recent seasons as well as trouble with Cardiff.
I see Leeds, Cardiff and Millwall as all as bad as each other. Am I mistaken, are we just as bad but I'm just oblivious to it?

 

[BarcaBlade]

Possibly you are getting old and possibly I am just a bit less sensitive. I don't even own a horse, let alone a high horse to get up on.

Davenport has potentially had his career ended, yes. But that's not really of any great significance to a Millwall fan other than they can take the pee. None of those that stood up and sang the song actually did any of the stabbing.

I'm not claiming cutting edge humour or comedy awards here, but at least there is a little tingle of black humour in there.

"Where's your daddy gone?" lacks everything.

I did read a book, think it was called "Football Against the Enemy". Right at the end of the book there was a quote from a Red Star Belgrade nutjob about how he rated Sheffield United and had mates in our firm. The Red Star lot are a pretty nasty bunch and made a scene in Prague last week when they played Slavia. The usual performance of belly-swinging baldtops, swigging beer in the Old Town Square and managing to produce simple chants along the lines of "Kosovo is Serbia".

Yeah, right lads. The reporter doing a live piece from the stadium after the match did well to hold it together...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewC6HDPmoZU

 

[Grecian2000]

"I'm not trying to justify their actions but what the Millwall fans were chanting was sick. 'Stand up if you stabbed Davenport' and 'Where's your Daddy gone?' at Collison ... An absolute disgrace and I can understand why it upset the Shammers fans. "

I presume all this took place within the ground. It was being reported well before the game that there was trouble outside which would be nothing to do with any chanting inside.

As said earlier, if you can't control yourself when some idiots are chanting in your direction then you should be locked up anyway.

Man U/Liverpool games are notorious for pretty dreadful songs and chants between the fans (from Munich to Hillsborough) but it doesn't degenerate into what happened last night (although that might be because the relevant police don't decide to decimate their own prescence).

 

[Deleted member 1486]

Yes, the undertones are still there at BDTBL - in blocks G & H Valad Stand there are still the morons who V sign and taunt the opposition fans - in fact they spend more time doing that than watching the game- and usually their knowledge of the game is minimal!

That's where I sit with my kids too and I'd agree with the other posters that it's only a handful of people taunting the opposition. There's a fairly mixed bunch in that area of the ground, I love sitting there. It's a decent place to sit for those of us who take kids because the view is better than the family stand or the Kop (especially for kids as the seats are steeper), the atmosphere is usually fairly lively (although it's been a bit flat so far this season if I'm honest) and the players almost always inevitably run straight towards us to celebrate when they score at that end of the pitch.

 

[SwissBlade]

Possibly you are getting old and possibly I am just a bit less sensitive. I don't even own a horse, let alone a high horse to get up on.

Davenport has potentially had his career ended, yes. But that's not really of any great significance to a Millwall fan other than they can take the pee. None of those that stood up and sang the song actually did any of the stabbing.

I'm not claiming cutting edge humour or comedy awards here, but at least there is a little tingle of black humour in there.

"Where's your daddy gone?" lacks everything.

I'm about as insensitive as you can get, but the Davenport and Collison songs are a disgrace.

From what I understand Davenport could've been killed! Its still touch and go whether he'll walk, let alone play football so I don't see that as taking the pee.

Its not black humour in the slightest

 

[FURPHY]

Sorry Barca, you've lost me there, I can't see the comic element in the Davenport one.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but the lad has potentially had his career deliberately threatened by a mindless thug.

Nope, still not getting it.


On another slightly related note I've been having a disagreement with a Leeds United fan who claims that our record is as bad as there's. These seems total bollocks to me as I can remember Leeds tearing up Bournemouth and Chesterfield in recent seasons as well as trouble with Cardiff.
I see Leeds, Cardiff and Millwall as all as bad as each other. Am I mistaken, are we just as bad but I'm just oblivious to it?

Leeds record for violence is notorious. There was the game at the Lane when their fans were ripping out the seats in the upper tier of the Bramall Lane stand.
The most threatened I have ever felt was at Elland Road when we were beaten 4-0 in the season when we went up second to Leeds.
Their fans in front of us were not watching the game but just the reaction from Blades fans as the goals went in. Some of the Blades fans I knew had deliberately concealed their colours and John Gannon's girlfriend who was sat just behind us was hit in the face with an object that had been thrown.

 

[Bramley]

About 5-6 years ago or so we had one of the highest numbers of banning orders for football-related violence. I got to know one of the Senior Officers at SYPD who dealt specifically with matchday operations at Bramall Lane and was a figure of some authority on the subject. He rated SUFC at that stage as having one of the more notorious/well-respected firms amongst their peers. We're no angels believe me.

 

[SwissBlade]

About 5-6 years ago or so we had one of the highest numbers of banning orders for football-related violence. I got to know one of the Senior Officers at SYPD who dealt specifically with matchday operations at Bramall Lane and was a figure of some authority on the subject. He rated SUFC at that stage as having one of the more notorious/well-respected firms amongst their peers. We're no angels believe me.

We're no angels, but we've never been like Leeds have we?

Does the banning orders mean that we have more Hooligans or that the Police (and the club?) clamped down heavy on the trouble makers?

It also highlights that theres no place for the Ultras

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

We're no angels, but we've never been like Leeds have we?

Does the banning orders mean that we have more Hooligans or that the Police (and the club?) clamped down heavy on the trouble makers?

It also highlights that theres no place for the Ultras

Ask around, including my friends down here from Upton Park who are the toughest OB in the UK? SYP by a mile! If Leeds were in South Yorkshire their banning order numbers would give Strapon a stiffy!

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

We're no angels, but we've never been like Leeds have we?

Does the banning orders mean that we have more Hooligans or that the Police (and the club?) clamped down heavy on the trouble makers?

It also highlights that theres no place for the Ultras

Leeds have a hell of a lot more banning orders than we do currently.

According to 2007-2008 figures we have 42 total banning orders. On the same government figures Leeds have 152.

 

[bricktop]

Back to topic there have been a few games where it has been kicking off all over during the last few years, and to be honest i think it gives the games a bit of bite, and a bit of an extra edge.

The one that comes to mind more than anything is Cardiff at home in the 2003/04 season, i have never seen as many nutter descend on Sheffield in one go.

 

[FishFingers]

Back to topic there have been a few games where it has been kicking off all over during the last few years, and to be honest i think it gives the games a bit of bite, and a bit of an extra edge.

The one that comes to mind more than anything is Cardiff at home in the 2003/04 season, i have never seen as many nutter descend on Sheffield in one go.

And what happened to them mate? They got spanked by a few of our lads whom got down down to meet them. They were asking for it and got it and came off worse. Not condoning, just telling the tale

 

[moDtheGod]

I'm about as insensitive as you can get, but the Davenport and Collison songs are a disgrace.

From what I understand Davenport could've been killed! Its still touch and go whether he'll walk, let alone play football so I don't see that as taking the pee.

Its not black humour in the slightest

Maybe it's not, I'm not really sure where I stand on the issue, but just to play devil's advocate - is it not part of the crowd's job to try and intimidate the players? If we can get under the skin of the opposition and unsettle them, shouldn't we do it? I'm pretty sure hearing that stuff aimed at me would really upset me and definitely put me off my game.

Is it any different to suggesting David Beckham's missus enjoys anal and questioning the whereabouts of Lee Chapman's missus or Shaun Wright-Phillips's real dad? Is it really?

 

[La_Blade]

Maybe it's not, I'm not really sure where I stand on the issue, but just to play devil's advocate - is it not part of the crowd's job to try and intimidate the players? If we can get under the skin of the opposition and unsettle them, shouldn't we do it? I'm pretty sure hearing that stuff aimed at me would really upset me and definitely put me off my game.

Is it any different to suggesting David Beckham's missus enjoys anal and questioning the whereabouts of Lee Chapman's missus or Shaun Wright-Phillips's real dad? Is it really?

I remember the taunts to Leeds when we played them in the 2003-2004 league cup (I think) that went along the lines of "2-0 Galatasary" I also seem to remember a banner along the same lines on the Kop too. Theres a fine line between "black humour", and "sick shit". It just depends on how you feel about it. IMO singing about people who have been killed such as Collisons dad, those two Leeds fans etc. is a bit much.

 

[Bramley]

We're no angels, but we've never been like Leeds have we?

Does the banning orders mean that we have more Hooligans or that the Police (and the club?) clamped down heavy on the trouble makers?

It also highlights that theres no place for the Ultras

Swiss you are absolutely way off about the Ultra's, you've completely missed the point. It's a group of 16 year old kids who want to generate a better atmosphere in the ground, it's nothing to do with football violence.