Gone Elsewhere Martin Waghorn

[Isaw Joeshaw]

Nice use of colour

Showing off .

 

[Bladesman]

I can be very artistic you know.

Boo!!!

 

[Cerberus Blade]

I just took that as they've left the bid on the table and a bid has now gone in for another player, not that we've made a revised bid

It's amazing isn't it. You and Blademark read exactly the same article, yet one of you thinks we've made a new bid for Waghorn and one of you didn't read it that way at all. I have to say I agree with you Blade58. There is nothing in that article that suggests we've made a revised bid for Waghorn. But I suspect what Blademark meant to say, is that we've revised our position on the Waghorn bid and are looking not just at him, but at other options as well. Which is correct of course.

Anyhow, what I find most interesting is the following, which came from Ipswich manager Paul Hurst only yesterday, but I've not seen anyone pick up on it so far...

Hurst says his talks with Waghorn, who trained with the rest of the squad at Portman Road earlier this afternoon, will remain private.

“We’ve had more than one conversation,” he added. “I’m not going to say what Martyn said. I think if he chooses to do that, it’s down to him but those conversations will remain private and I’ll ask people to respect that.”

It's not at all clear from the article that this is taken from, (I'll post it below), what Hurst is referring to, when he says, "if he chooses to do that" - Do what? Hand in a transfer request? Go on strike? What exactly? It doesn't say. But it does give us a clue that Waghorn isn't happy perhaps with the way this is being handled and wants a conclusion to it sooner rather than later?

https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-news/34033

 

[S5Blade]

It's amazing isn't it. You and Blademark read exactly the same article, yet one of you thinks we've made a new bid for Waghorn and one of you didn't read it that way at all. I have to say I agree with you Blade58. There is nothing in that article that suggests we've made a revised bid for Waghorn. But I suspect what Blademark meant to say, is that we've revised our position on the Waghorn bid and are looking not just at him, but at other options as well. Which is correct of course.

Anyhow, what I find most interesting is the following, which came from Ipswich manager Paul Hurst only yesterday, but I've not seen anyone pick up on it so far...

Hurst says his talks with Waghorn, who trained with the rest of the squad at Portman Road earlier this afternoon, will remain private.

“We’ve had more than one conversation,” he added. “I’m not going to say what Martyn said. I think if he chooses to do that, it’s down to him but those conversations will remain private and I’ll ask people to respect that.”

It's not at all clear from the article that this is taken from, (I'll post it below), what Hurst is referring to, when he says, "if he chooses to do that" - Do what? Hand in a transfer request? Go on strike? What exactly? It doesn't say. But it does give us a clue that Waghorn isn't happy perhaps with the way this is being handled and wants a conclusion to it sooner rather than later?

https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-news/34033

In the context it looks like the manager is not going to talk about the conversations in Public, but if Waghorn does, thats up to him.

 

[Champagneblade]

“I’m not going to say what Martyn said. I think if he chooses to do that, it’s down to him.”

I just read that to mean Hurst wasn’t going to openly discuss their conversation. If Waghorn wanted to, then that was down to him.

 

[Torrix1889]

It's amazing isn't it. You and Blademark read exactly the same article, yet one of you thinks we've made a new bid for Waghorn and one of you didn't read it that way at all. I have to say I agree with you Blade58. There is nothing in that article that suggests we've made a revised bid for Waghorn. But I suspect what Blademark meant to say, is that we've revised our position on the Waghorn bid and are looking not just at him, but at other options as well. Which is correct of course.

Anyhow, what I find most interesting is the following, which came from Ipswich manager Paul Hurst only yesterday, but I've not seen anyone pick up on it so far...

Hurst says his talks with Waghorn, who trained with the rest of the squad at Portman Road earlier this afternoon, will remain private.

“We’ve had more than one conversation,” he added. “I’m not going to say what Martyn said. I think if he chooses to do that, it’s down to him but those conversations will remain private and I’ll ask people to respect that.”

It's not at all clear from the article that this is taken from, (I'll post it below), what Hurst is referring to, when he says, "if he chooses to do that" - Do what? Hand in a transfer request? Go on strike? What exactly? It doesn't say. But it does give us a clue that Waghorn isn't happy perhaps with the way this is being handled and wants a conclusion to it sooner rather than later?

https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-news/34033

At first I read that as Hurst asking Waggers to keep things private, but he may not wish to do so........however, the full-stop indicates that he may have moved onto a different topic of the same subject......interesting, the movement of our target striker could hinge on a full-stop.....see what kind of straws we are clutching at now.....

Also FWIW I am becoming convinced the Derby "interest" could be nothing more than an Agent induced smoke-screen to get us to improve our offer to both the club and player....

 

[The Crab]

Fox in the box?

...Jeffers?

 

[ekke287]

It sounds to me like Wilder has given his bid and said take it or leave it. As Ipswich are dragging their feet and seeing interest from other clubs it sounds like their holding fire.

Wilder isn't going to go back and revise the bid, he knows the value of the player, and as he and the club feel it's a fair deal the fact that it's taking so long has led him to pursue other targets.

It might play out that we get Waghorn, or we get someone else and retract the bid completely due to it. As i reported the other day, Derby seem to have lost interest now they've got Marriott for a steal.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

I can be very artistic you know.

it's a bit childish though that CBB! Is your real name "CBeebies"?

 

[The Crab]

At first I read that as Hurst asking Waggers to keep things private, but he may not wish to do so........however, the full-stop indicates that he may have moved onto a different topic of the same subject......interesting, the movement of our target striker could hinge on a full-stop.....see what kind of straws we are clutching at now.....

Also FWIW I am becoming convinced the Derby "interest" could be nothing more than an Agent induced smoke-screen to get us to improve our offer to both the club and player....

You could be right, in which case I'd be saying take it or leave it. Give a deadline, if it's not met, we walk. He either wants to come or he doesn't.

 

[Westran]

interesting, the movement of our target striker could hinge on a full-stop.....see what kind of straws we are clutching at now.........

Newspaper articles don't determine the outcome of a transfer, that's down to the clubs, players and agents. So I wouldn;t exactly call it straw clutching, except for fans discussions where we cling on to anything when we actually know very little about whats going on behind the scenes.

Also FWIW I am becoming convinced the Derby "interest" could be nothing more than an Agent induced smoke-screen to get us to improve our offer to both the club and player....

Completely agree... There's been no mention of any bid except for ours, I'm not saying there wasn't one but it seems to me that Derby's interest was either a smokescreen by the agent or a smokescreen for Derby in their pursuit of Marriott

 

[sheffielder]

If derby do get Waghorn then I would be happy to take Johnny Russell off them. Under wilder he could be good

Edit - fucked off to America

 

[Cerberus Blade]

It sounds to me like Wilder has given his bid and said take it or leave it. As Ipswich are dragging their feet and seeing interest from other clubs it sounds like their holding fire.

Wilder isn't going to go back and revise the bid, he knows the value of the player, and as he and the club feel it's a fair deal the fact that it's taking so long has led him to pursue other targets.

It might play out that we get Waghorn, or we get someone else and retract the bid completely due to it. As i reported the other day, Derby seem to have lost interest now they've got Marriott for a steal.

I thought Derby were still in the hunt and looking to sell Vydra to the dirties? and they're asking £11M - which would fund the signing of Waghorn and still leave them £3M to the good. Says in the paper this morning that Vydra is on £40k a week at Derby - and Leeds are only offering £35k a week maximum - so he'd need to drop £5k a week (but presumably he gets a cut of the transfer fee anyhow, which at £11m wouldn't be bad would it?)

Regardless, it just shows you what we are up against trying to shop at this end of the market. Players on £35k or £40k a week. What a game that is eh? I wonder what our highest earner is on? I'd guess a good £10k a week less than that? At some point, if seems like, United are going to have to take a big step up from the "middlin" lower league mentality, and start to compete, financially, at a different level. I mean, imagine if we do bring in Waghorn, or someone else, on £10k a week, or more, than our top earners. That's going to cause a bit of a fluttering in the dovecots isn't it? But I suspect it's what we now need to do, if we are going to take that step up from where we've been. The signing of Egan is the first indication we are starting to evolve from our cocoon of lower league club thinking.

 

[ekke287]

I thought Derby were still in the hunt and looking to sell Vydra to the dirties? and they're asking £11M - which would fund the signing of Waghorn and still leave them £3M to the good. Says in the paper this morning that Vydra is on £40k a week at Derby - and Leeds are only offering £35k a week maximum - so he'd need to drop £5k a week (but presumably he gets a cut of the transfer fee anyhow, which at £11m wouldn't be bad would it?)

I believe Derby's interest is, like you say, dependent on their outgoings. They have made a few impressive signings already so it seems unlikely they'd bid big for a player as a backup, unless they see him as a first teamer to replace someone else.

Personally, after the news I've seen I've come the conclusion that ours is still the only offer on the table. This may not mean though that discussions haven't happened from other clubs.

When you read that our offer is "still on the table" it just means it's not been accepted. What's happening with Ipswich though is that they're holding out for a better offer and will accept ours if it doesn't come.

The gamble is that ours can still be retracted if we sign someone else, leaving them with fuck all.

5m (or so that has been reported) is a decent offer, but Greed is ultimately the driving force behind football.

 

[Westran]

I thought Derby were still in the hunt and looking to sell Vydra to the dirties? and they're asking £11M - which would fund the signing of Waghorn and still leave them £3M to the good. Says in the paper this morning that Vydra is on £40k a week at Derby - and Leeds are only offering £35k a week maximum - so he'd need to drop £5k a week (but presumably he gets a cut of the transfer fee anyhow, which at £11m wouldn't be bad would it?)

Regardless, it just shows you what we are up against trying to shop at this end of the market. Players on £35k or £40k a week. What a game that is eh? I wonder what our highest earner is on? I'd guess a good £10k a week less than that? At some point, if seems like, United are going to have to take a big step up from the "middlin" lower league mentality, and start to compete, financially, at a different level. I mean, imagine if we do bring in Waghorn, or someone else, on £10k a week, or more, than our top earners. That's going to cause a bit of a fluttering in the dovecots isn't it? But I suspect it's what we now need to do, if we are going to take that step up from where we've been. The signing of Egan is the first indication we are starting to evolve from our cocoon of lower league club thinking.

I don't see it as "lower league club thinking", I think it's planned, sensible progression, as Wilder has said all along. It's nice to see that we actually are moving in the right direction with the players we're looking at, but lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

it's a bit childish though that CBB! Is your real name "CBeebies"?

 

[Pinchy]

I thought Derby were still in the hunt and looking to sell Vydra to the dirties? and they're asking £11M - which would fund the signing of Waghorn and still leave them £3M to the good. Says in the paper this morning that Vydra is on £40k a week at Derby - and Leeds are only offering £35k a week maximum - so he'd need to drop £5k a week (but presumably he gets a cut of the transfer fee anyhow, which at £11m wouldn't be bad would it?)

Regardless, it just shows you what we are up against trying to shop at this end of the market. Players on £35k or £40k a week. What a game that is eh? I wonder what our highest earner is on? I'd guess a good £10k a week less than that? At some point, if seems like, United are going to have to take a big step up from the "middlin" lower league mentality, and start to compete, financially, at a different level. I mean, imagine if we do bring in Waghorn, or someone else, on £10k a week, or more, than our top earners. That's going to cause a bit of a fluttering in the dovecots isn't it? But I suspect it's what we now need to do, if we are going to take that step up from where we've been. The signing of Egan is the first indication we are starting to evolve from our cocoon of lower league club thinking.

They have greater resources than us.
It’s not attitude, it’s availability. Ah, the financial advisers on here...


Chucksumdehelsesmunnehatit.

 

[Hblockblade]

Trust in wilder his tactic could well pay off I do think now derbys interest could well have Been a smokescreen for marriot plus waggers will want guaranteed first team football and he clearly wants to leave the tractor boyz so fingers crossed we get him would be a Reight signing utb

 

[Ricky]

No way is Waghorn and Derby a smokescreen.

They're basically trying to move on all their current strikers.

They won't even be done after signing Waghorn.

 

[Dkc]

waggers will want guaranteed first team football

No chance of that at SUFC or elsewhere

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

66 pages and counting, on a striker that quite a few have said they aren't even that arsed about.

Impressive work, even by our standards.

 

[Esablade]

66 pages and counting, on a striker that quite a few have said they aren't even that arsed about.

Impressive work, even by our standards.

It’s a good effort...fo sho.

 

[FTPE]

66 pages and counting, on a striker that quite a few have said they aren't even that arsed about.

Impressive work, even by our standards.

To be fair I was one of them, but as all my other favourable targets are disappearing I feel like we need to get this one over the line.
Derby will sell Vydra today, buy Waghorn and I haven't a clue who else we could possibly go after.

 

[Hblockblade]

No way is Waghorn and Derby a smokescreen.

They're basically trying to move on all their current strikers.

They won't even be done after signing Waghorn.

Still can't see derby offering the full amount Ipswich want there 50% now and 50% after promotion is a massive risk Ipswich won't take as we're talking derby ere so our offer is still the best all round,fingers crossed hey

 

[Esablade]

Still can't see derby offering the full amount Ipswich want there 50% now and 50% after promotion is a massive risk Ipswich won't take as we're talking derby ere so our offer is still the best all round,fingers crossed hey

Yep, we don’t know all the details but would the Ipswich board take a punt on Derby getting promoted or cold hard cash now....I’m sure Derby will offer more wages but that doesn’t help the Ipswich board.

A fine dilemma...

UTB!

 

[Maidenhead]

Yep, we don’t know all the details but would the Ipswich board take a punt on Derby getting promoted or cold hard cash now....I’m sure Derby will offer more wages but that doesn’t help the Ipswich board.

A fine dilemma...

UTB!

The player will ultimately decide and Ipswich will take what they can get.

Geographically we're so close to Derby that location for his family etc is unlikely to be a factor therefore it's likely to come down to a choice between higher wages (Derby) or potentially more playing time (us).

 

[Cerberus Blade]

I don't see it as "lower league club thinking", I think it's planned, sensible progression, as Wilder has said all along. It's nice to see that we actually are moving in the right direction with the players we're looking at, but lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet.

I wasn't referring to Wilder particularly, although I was concerned when he first arrived and said the days of us spending big are gone! I thought he must have got us confused with someone else?

I fully support the approach he's taken. I think in League 1 it's really not necessary to spend big and he did a fine job not only in terms of recruitment, but getting rid of dead wood as well. I felt that he wasn't backed sufficiently in January, and if he had been then I reckon we'd have made the play-offs as a minimum. That's what I was referring to more than anything.

I think it's great that the club are showing some intention now. I reckon the penny has dropped with some of those in the boardroom that we've got a bloody good manager and a decent team that, with a little bit more investment, can go all the way.

 

[Fraggle Blade]

No way is Waghorn and Derby a smokescreen.

They're basically trying to move on all their current strikers.

They won't even be done after signing Waghorn.

Derby are precariously sat on the edge of FFP and have to make a saving of £8m off of their losses to not fall foul of it. So they are desperate to move quite a few players away that are on big wages. My Derby supporting colleagues can't believe they haven't learned their lesson yet and are adding so many players to their already bulging squad.

 

[Booker4]

Derby are precariously sat on the edge of FFP and have to make a saving of £8m off of their losses to not fall foul of it. So they are desperate to move quite a few players away that are on big wages. My Derby supporting colleagues can't believe they haven't learned their lesson yet and are adding so many players to their already bulging squad.

I looked on their fans forum for similar views to your Derby mate but no mention of making the same mistakes again. Vydra's medical to Leeds has apparently hit problems also, so they could delay the deal and hopefully we'll get back to Ipswich with a different bid, or better still, Ipswich agree to the existing one. I think signing Waghorn could be the difference between mid table and play-offs.

 

[Blade56]

QPR losing their appeal against creative accounting will make them a bit more cautious. That said owners can do a share split and buy the shares they generate and the money counts as investment income. Think that's how Brighton did it with their sugar daddy. Sean Thornton might be able to confirm if that's how they did it.