Well done England ...

[Blade for Sale]

He's godlike.

Have a wonderful day searching for people to contradict. Sad little man.

Ta ta.

I agree with Keane being godlike. His vastly exaggerated opinion of himself, cowardly vicious streak and disappearances at times of crisis is very similar to Yahweh. I'm not sure god ever got chinned by Brian Clough though. Imagine a hard man getting knocked on his arse by a middle aged alcoholic. Tough as knitted booties.

 

[DronnieBlade]

And Kane has arguably been one of our most ineffective players.

He has been a victim of exceptionally poor levels of service. He is no target man, which does limit his uses when the service in to him is sub standard.

He is a good player. Our only definite world class one IMHO that would be on the shopping lists of the Juves and Madrids of this world should they require a goal scorer of the required standard.

We do have good players in the squad. It’s not all blood and thunder. What price Maguire now ?

But Croatia, a country with a population of circa 4m which is about 7% of the pool size we have, put out a side of eleven (yes 11) technically capable footballers. We had maybe 4 at best !

UTB

 

[SheepdipBlade]

I can't help but worry that we're all going a bit overboard.

It's been a great tournament and the lads did far better than pretty much anyone expected - but

Tunisia and Panama were little better than Championship sides, and then the draw opened up in a crazy way! Sweden and Colombia looked like decent premiership sides - though Colombia were without their main man. You can only beat who's in front of you - but those in front of us weren't that good.

We have a lot of potential in the side - but the key may be younger players from the World Champion U18s and U20s sides. Germany and Spain are likely to come back far stronger - as are Brazil - - and then there's Italy and Holland who will be rebuilding after not even qualifying for Russia. We have potential - but there are plenty of other big nations who will be undertaking overhauls we'd need to watch. We may need a Mbappe of our own to compete.

The team did really well without the weight of expectation on their shoulders - and already we're starting to build expectations up for the future. I thought Dixon was interesting when he said the nerves of the semi final burned so much nervous energy in the team that they couldn't compete with the energy levels of Croatia - even though they'd had two sets of extra time and penalties.

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves eh?

 

[LJBlade]

Lingard makes the squad primarily cos of his engine. He isn’t very good technically.

No sure what Alli brings these days, other than a questionable attitude. He is quite tall !

Trippier has had a good tournament. But he does play the wing back role, which I am sure you will know DEMANDS a high level of athletic prowess.

I will leave you with this.

A statement of fact with precisely no evidence to back up !

There is only one current England player who’s name will ever have been mentioned in the boardrooms of the European super clubs with any degree of seriousness. His name is Kane.

It’s possible that Walker has been murmured, and also that one or two that have had a good WC2018 (we know who they are ) MIGHT get mentions in the future.

But you have to go back several decades to find an Englishman that has gone abroad to an Elite side and genuinely been a success. For all the reasons I have stated.

Vive the LJB revolution

UTB

But once again you're talking about the current team, none of which have been selected purely because they are the biggest, strongest or fastest.

The current team aren't good technically but they are the best we have. If we were solely fixated on 'big, fast, strong' players like Lingard, Trippier and Alli wouldn't be in the team as there are plenty of players who are bigger, stronger and faster. The biggest and strongest player we've got is probably Maguire and he came through at United, who really aren't fixated with 'big, fast, strong'.

As I said previously your argument was once relevant, it isn't any longer. The entire England set up and the clubs in this country are no longer fixated on 'big, fast and strong'. United are a prime example of this.

I'll also add that it wasn't anywhere near 'several decades' ago when Beckham was described as being 'world class' whilst dragging Real Madrid to the La Liga title.

 

[LJBlade]

He has been a victim of exceptionally poor levels of service. He is no target man, which does limit his uses when the service in to him is sub standard.

He is a good player. Our only definite world class one IMHO that would be on the shopping lists of the Juves and Madrids of this world should they require a goal scorer of the required standard.

We do have good players in the squad. It’s not all blood and thunder. What price Maguire now ?

But Croatia, a country with a population of circa 4m which is about 7% of the pool size we have, put out a side of eleven (yes 11) technically capable footballers. We had maybe 4 at best !

UTB

11! Are you really going to argue that Lovren and Vida (who smashed the ball out of play at just about every opportunity) are more technically capable than Stones and Maguire? Brilliant stuff

Croatia had two players that are more 'technically capable' than the England players.

 

[DronnieBlade]

But once again you're talking about the current team, none of which have been selected purely because they are the biggest, strongest or fastest.

The current team aren't good technically but they are the best we have. If we were solely fixated on 'big, fast, strong' players like Lingard, Trippier and Alli wouldn't be in the team as there are plenty of players who are bigger, stronger and faster. The biggest and strongest player we've got is probably Maguire and he came through at United, who really aren't fixated with 'big, fast, strong'.

As I said previously your argument was once relevant, it isn't any longer. The entire England set up and the clubs in this country are no longer fixated on 'big, fast and strong'. United are a prime example of this.

I'll also add that it wasn't anywhere near 'several decades' ago when Beckham was described as being 'world class' whilst dragging Real Madrid to the La Liga title.

You quoted the names mate.

You thought you woz making a “point”.

All I did was respond to your prompt, with a view of my own.

I could debate the Beckham as World Class Quote with you, but frankly can’t be arsed !

UTB

 

[Blade for Sale]

11! Are you really going to argue that Lovren and Vida (who smashed the ball out of play at just about every opportunity) are more technically capable than Stones and Maguire? Brilliant stuff

Croatia had two players that are more 'technically capable' than the England players.

Even if that were the case, it's 20% of the outfield players. A massive advantage and one we need to overcome of we hold any ambitions of being competitive on a regular basis.

 

[DronnieBlade]

11! Are you really going to argue that Lovren and Vida (who smashed the ball out of play at just about every opportunity) are more technically capable than Stones and Maguire? Brilliant stuff

Croatia had two players that are more 'technically capable' than the England players.

Stones is hopeless as a central CB in a 3. Far too slow to read the game.

Or did you nod off (as he did) when he got side on and missed the run of Manzu for the games decisive moment ?

Maguire I’ll give ya.

UTB

 

[BladesOnToast]

[QUOTE="sheff_blade90, post: 1729033, member: 15783"i really take massive problem, with the 1st half decent side we lost to. what are you on [/QUOTE]

Sorry mate - you've got to admit, if you take an objective view, the neutral might be a bit baffled as to what the media and fans are so excited about - since England's "astonishing" world cup run boils down to little more than a convincing win against Sweden. Admittedly a very impressive win under immense pressure, but otherwise - comfortably beating Panama hardly counts for much, and we only just scraped past Tunisia and Colombia.

 

[LJBlade]

You quoted the names mate.

You thought you woz making a “point”.

All I did was respond to your prompt, with a view of my on.

I could debate the Beckham as World Class Quote with you, but frankly can’t be arsed !

UTB

The 'world class' quote about Beckham was actually from another world class player, but I assume you know better.

I was making a point, one that you seemingly can't argue with, so it must have been relevant.

 

[LJBlade]

Even if that were the case, it's 20% of the outfield players. A massive advantage and one we need to overcome of we hold any ambitions of being competitive on a regular basis.

Oh it is indeed a massive advantage, as the game eventually showed. I'm just trying to dispel the myth that Croatia were playing with 11 different versions of Modric.

 

[DronnieBlade]

The 'world class' quote about Beckham was actually from another world class player, but I assume you know better.

I was making a point, one that you seemingly can't argue with, so it must have been relevant.

World class exponent of shirt sales for an elite side, I’ll give ya.

World class footballer ............ ?

A good one for sure. And a jolly decent chap to boot.

World Class ??????

Nah.

UTB

 

[LJBlade]

Stones is hopeless as a central CB in a 3. Far too slow to read the game.

Or did you nod off (as he did) when he got side on and missed the run of Manzu for the games decisive moment ?

Maguire I’ll give ya.

UTB

I never said he's any good as a central CB in a 3, I said he's better 'technically' than either of the two CB's for Croatia neither of which seemed capable of playing out from the back, like Stones and Maguire are. That's down to just 9 technically good players (if we're still including the keeper) before we've even looked at the rest of them

 

[Blade for Sale]

World class exponent of shirt sales for an elite side, I’ll give ya.

World class footballer ............ ?

A good one for sure. And a jolly decent chap to boot.

World Class ??????

Nah.

UTB

The only world class player from that Man Utd/England set up was Scholes. Disgracefully shunted out to the left to accommodate the inferior Gerrard/Lampard, who dovetailed about as well as a whale's flipper in a child's glove.

 

[LJBlade]

World class exponent of shirt sales for an elite side, I’ll give ya.

World class footballer ............ ?

A good one for sure. And a jolly decent chap to boot.

World Class ??????

Nah.

UTB

As I say, I assumed you would know better than the people who have actually played against him, at the very top of the game. Either way, the 'world class' comment is irrelevant as that wasn't the point you were making. Beckham went to an 'elite' club and was successful a lot earlier than 'several decades' ago.

 

[BushBlade]

[QUOTE="sheff_blade90, post: 1729033, member: 15783"i really take massive problem, with the 1st half decent side we lost to. what are you on

Sorry mate - you've got to admit, if you take an objective view, the neutral might be a bit baffled as to what the media and fans are so excited about - since England's "astonishing" world cup run boils down to little more than a convincing win against Sweden. Admittedly a very impressive win under immense pressure, but otherwise - comfortably beating Panama hardly counts for much, and we only just scraped past Tunisia and Colombia.[/QUOTE]



That’s not really a neutral view though, it’s quite disparaging. Plenty of teams in this tournament failed to put away supposedly inferior opposition and went home early, just like we did in the Euros. Worldbeaters? No, absolutely not. Huge improvement on the last ten years? Definitely.

 

[Gimli]

World class exponent of shirt sales for an elite side, I’ll give ya.

World class footballer ............ ?

A good one for sure. And a jolly decent chap to boot.

World Class ??????

Nah.

UTB

Beckham was world class. Look at the teams he played for, the trophies he’s won.

 

[The Crab]

What do you think of his Botox?

Wouldn't know, he wasn't wearing shorts and they weren't hanging out *

*oops, sorry. Just had a Diabetes Eye scan and my eyes are still a bit blurry...……………….

 

[itsinyerblood]

I can't help but worry that we're all going a bit overboard.

It's been a great tournament and the lads did far better than pretty much anyone expected - but

Tunisia and Panama were little better than Championship sides, and then the draw opened up in a crazy way! Sweden and Colombia looked like decent premiership sides - though Colombia were without their main man. You can only beat who's in front of you - but those in front of us weren't that good.

We have a lot of potential in the side - but the key may be younger players from the World Champion U18s and U20s sides. Germany and Spain are likely to come back far stronger - as are Brazil - - and then there's Italy and Holland who will be rebuilding after not even qualifying for Russia. We have potential - but there are plenty of other big nations who will be undertaking overhauls we'd need to watch. We may need a Mbappe of our own to compete.

The team did really well without the weight of expectation on their shoulders - and already we're starting to build expectations up for the future. I thought Dixon was interesting when he said the nerves of the semi final burned so much nervous energy in the team that they couldn't compete with the energy levels of Croatia - even though they'd had two sets of extra time and penalties.

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves eh?

I'd add that the comment about extra time being a factor was an irrelevance in my view. We're talking about supremely fit footballers, and I could no more detect tiredness in Modric's performance than I could in any of Croatia's players. Far too often we, meaning that vociferous group of football addicts, reach for explanations without really understanding what it is we're grasping at. Interestingly, I noticed that Croatia's second goal was due to a lack of focus by Maguire. Although Stones was initially blamed for poor marking, Mandzukic managed to escape Maguire's attention, leaving Stones with no chance to cover properly. I mention this not to take a pop at Maguire, but to emphasise just how easy it is to lose focus for just a few seconds. Hopefully the younger element will learn that whether it's the 89th or even the 109th minute, it's vital to be on your game.

As the game came to a close there was only one team showing discipline and maintaining a control ensuring that the ball wasn't given away. Unfortunately it wasn't England.

 

[Sean Thornton]

The thing is - this falsified meme that its been this deluded love-fest 100% from start to finish isn't true though is it? Look at the comments on any BBC article England related and its been at least 60/40 negative. "Sterling is shit" "Beaten nothing but pub teams". Am I dreaming or has that been said from match one? Plus I honestly don't remember anyone saying we were world class at any point. Just getting swept up in the excitement of achieving our first semi-final in 28 years. Sorry about that, I mistakenly believed that was pointing of, y'know, watching sport?

Exactly. People can get excited by the team without shouting footballs coming home every five minutes . The same as ordinary folk, imo of course so the football experts on here don't implode, are disappointed by the result, even though beaten by a better team. I'm just surprised by the smug, told you so, comments which show little disappointment over the defeat of our national team. A team that's got further than any of our goalden generation squads. (Not including those who put their head over the parapet earlier, just the pseudo panel wannabe's explaining how where when and why AFTER the result.

I shouldn't be surprised I know, it's the same at times when United lose.

 

[Blade for Sale]

Beckham was world class. Look at the teams he played for, the trophies he’s won.

All comes down to how you define world class. Zidane, Messi, Ronaldo, Maldini, Ronaldinho, Baresi, Xavi, Iniesta, Modric, Pirlo..... Beckham for me is a tier below these guys.

 

[Harrisblade]

Wouldn't know, he wasn't wearing shorts and they weren't hanging out *

*oops, sorry. Just had a Diabetes Eye scan and my eyes are still a bit blurry...……………….

Make sure you wear your sunglasses !

 

[DronnieBlade]

As I say, I assumed you would know better than the people who have actually played against him, at the very top of the game. Either way, the 'world class' comment is irrelevant as that wasn't the point you were making. Beckham went to an 'elite' club and was successful a lot earlier than 'several decades' ago.

If you are hanging your hat on one successful export of the English game, to an Elite European side, in fuck knows how long, than I can seriously see the point of your argument. It’s extremely well made !

UTB

 

[DronnieBlade]

All comes down to how you define world class. Zidane, Messi, Ronaldo, Maldini, Ronaldinho, Baresi, Xavi, Iniesta, Modric, Pirlo..... Beckham for me is a tier below these guys.

All abart Levels

UTB

 

[Sean Thornton]

World class exponent of shirt sales for an elite side, I’ll give ya.

World class footballer ............ ?

A good one for sure. And a jolly decent chap to boot.

World Class ??????

Nah.

UTB

Here's a first, we agree. Beckham was an extremely talented hardworking and driven footballer. He did exceptionally well in exceptional sides. Had he been Scots or Welsh the sycophancy towards him would have been far less. Give me Ryan Giggs every day of the week. World class? If he was, he was towards the lower level of that accolade, certainly nowhere near the top, in any era you wish to name.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Here's a first, we agree. Beckham was an extremely talented hardworking and driven footballer. He did exceptionally well in exceptional sides. Had he been Scots or Welsh the sycophancy towards him would have been far less. Give me Ryan Giggs every day of the week. World class? If he was, he was towards the lower level of that accolade, certainly nowhere near the top, in any era you wish to name.

Well tickle me pink with a feather duster

UTB

 

[SB_90]

Huge improvement on the last ten years? Definitely.

BladesOnToast

now that's what i was talking about we are not the finished article & we have over achieved because of lack of English players to choose from. that decreases with every transfer window. so we are taking players that no longer play for the big PL clubs & if you take an objective view. its been a decade plus of misery

2007 - we need a point a home but collapse v Croatia & fail to qualify for a tournament in 14 years
2010 - dreadful scrape point v usa, 0-0 v Algeria, terrible 1-0 v Slovakia. then played off the park by Germany 4-1
2012 - miracle we get got to pens v Italy in QF as they dominated us for 120 mins
2014 - 2 deserved defeats to Italy & Uruguay. then dull 0-0 v costa rica who i dont think we even troubled the GK
2016 - unlucky v Russia, good 2nd half v wales, awful v Slovenia & Iceland 1 of the worst displays in a major tournament

 

[Sean Thornton]

Well tickle me pink with a feather duster

UTB

Wrong forum?

 

[LJBlade]

If you are hanging your hat on one successful export of the English game, to an Elite European side, in fuck knows how long, than I can seriously see the point of your argument. It’s extremely well made !

UTB

Not hanging my hat on anything. Just providing the evidence which proves you 'several decades' argument completely incorrect. Now that's several things you've got wrong, maybe it would be better to quit whilst you're miles behind?

 

[DronnieBlade]

Wrong forum?

For you maybe.

I’m no receiver

UTB