The reality is - we have hit our ceiling

[Come from away]

The one point Keith Edwards made that makes real sense is that strikers only get one run (anticipating the cross) so if the player with the ball takes an extra touch, bingo, their is nobody to pass to - and Duffy does stop start a lot. Regardless we do have many chances to put the ball into the box and a lot of goals have come from putting the ball in 'first time' or early. If you delay like Duffy you really have to get your head up and not just aim for a space.

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

Ask yourself whether he is any better than what we've got or if he even looks like he should be getting in the team on merit. Have a think what if anything he did in the Burton game or whether it looked like it mattered to him. A player further from the Wilder mould is hard to imagine. Was he what you expected when there was talk of getting in a good young Premiership squad striker ? No , me neither. But when your only other alternatives have glandular fever or spent their development years in prison , what can you do ?

I would have expected someone on a par with the lad Ojo on loan at Fulham from Liverpool. Wilson so far has made Cofie look a world beater.

 

[1066blade]

Agree with most of the OP. I love Wilder but his stubborness not to look outside the UK is not helping. Eveyone knows fees in the UK for transfers are much higher. Yes there is the unknown element of going to the continent but struggling to see why we are not tapping into this market? We will not spend the money of clubs above so need to find whatever edge we can. Even Preston have tapped into the Irish league for some cheap gems.

Exactly, look how Watfords overseas recruiting got them into the Prem, and have never looked back.

 

[1066blade]

Selling or Buying?

What IS our transfer record - selling and more importantly, buying?

 

[stringer]

What IS our transfer record - selling and more importantly, buying?

£4m buying, Beattie. £8m selling, Naughton and Walker

 

[Tom Bott]

We need a bigger squad capable of lasting the season, playing in the way that we do.

Do we need to spunk Villa/ Pigs/ Wolves/ Fulham/ Boro levels of cash to do it? No.

How do we do it, prepare the same way as last summer, come back fitter, stronger, shift a few fringe players out and bring in better quality younger players (up front) and back up players ready to step up to first team in the Championship.

Precisely - how we did it under Warnock.

Though for many it seems that process is too slow.

 

[Tom Bott]

Ollie Watkins is exactly the kind of player we should be looking to sign in order to progress further. Signed by Brentford from Exeter City last July for £1.8m, he is currently the subject of interest from Bournemouth in a possible £6m move. While £6m may seem fanciful to some Blades fans, this is the kind of fees we’ll have to find. However, there’s no way we can/would want to match the wages Bournemouth could offer.

Unless CW signs his equivilent for 1.8 M as Brentford did.

 

[1066blade]

£4m buying, Beattie. £8m selling, Naughton and Walker

Thanks mate, hardly 'spunkin money' is it?

 

[Tynemouth Blade]

When Chris Wilder took over at Bramall Lane at the beginning of last season, the club was in an absolute state. He inherited a fairly poor squad that was underachieving in league one.

Fast forward 18 months and he has transformed us into a top half championship club. A quite remarkable job. He deserves all the plaudits he gets, we have done it with passion, guile, quality and plenty of entertainment - it’s been superb!

However, the reality is, he (or anyone) is going to struggle to take us much beyond the point we are at.

Since time immemorial, Blades fans have been trying to convince themselves that we wouldn’t want to be a club that was ‘spunkin money’ away to try and gain success, citing our neighbours and other failures with big budgets. However, it just takes a quick glance at the championship table to know that, despite all these protestations, money simply buys you success. The current top 6 will be not far off the 6 largest spenders in the division and that is the equilibrium football has reached. It creates a glass ceiling that clubs such as ourselves would need an immense stroke of luck to get through, but still incredibly unlikely.

Now we know we will never being spenders in the championship under the current ownership, and that’s fine. We just need to accept that, unless someone on here has £150 million sat in their bank collecting dust. I also feel a dose of realism is needed about expectations of the club, and Wilder, from here on in.

Before our L1 days we were an ‘Ipswich’. A very average second tier club that sometimes flirted with the playoffs. That’s what Wilder has achieved in his time here, but it is our ‘natural’ place and one we shouldn’t take for granted.

This has stemmed from my thoughts about improving for next season. I think most would agree our first move should be up front. We need a good championship striker to get us through games like yesterday. Then I realised, well there’s no chance! Look at those top 6 sides.... striker values:

Wolves - Neves - £14 million (just an example of many to be fair)
Cardiff - Madine - £6 million
Fulham - Rui Fonte - £8 million (plus rejecting £30 million for Cairney in Jan!)
Villa - hogan - £12 million
Derby - Vydra - £7million
Boro - Assombalonga - £14 million

And all of a sudden you realise just how difficult it’s going to be to reach those heights. Wilder has done an amazing jobs, but games like yesterday are won by players of a similar ilk to those mentioned above, none of which we will be able to get.

Well done Chris, an amazing job done, but I find it difficult to see us being able to move on from here without some genuine investment.

I agree!

 

[SwissBlade]

Precisely - how we did it under Warnock.

Though for many it seems that process is too slow.

And Warnock isn’t doing a bad job at Cardiff!

 

[I should coco]

And they have a manager who use to play for Real Madrid.

We have one who played for Rovrum, Notts County and Halifax.

I know which one I'd rather have.

 

[The Crab]

A couple of months ago the squad should have been drilled repetitively on the train ing ground the art of the first time cross ,the early ball in the box and the defence splitting pass
Because watching that yesterday was like groundhog day with Stevens in particular finding new ways to miscontrol the ball in good positions followed by a pathetic cross to no one .He wasn't alone leonard and baldock also appeared to be under the pressure of their family being in a hostage situation where one completed successful pass in the final third could spell curtains for their young family

This.

A first time ball is a lot harder to defend, defence and keeper get less time to set themselves.

 

[TJB.]

Thanks mate, hardly 'spunkin money' is it?

It seemed a sizeable fee at the time. The fees paid for players in the modern game doesn't quite seem a fair comparison simply because of how bat-shit it's all gone. A quick calculation to adjust for inflation shows it'd be a £5,320,000 fee today (http://inflation.iamkate.com/), but if you had a player of Beattie's age and ability around that time now, he'd probably be going for double that.

 

[South Bucks]

We seem to have the usual split on the forum of those who want a big squad of what end up being average players / rejects from others and those who'd rather have a smaller squad of higher quality.

As someone said yesterday they'd rather trade in the four we bought in Jan (all either rejects from other teams or no other club wants them) for just one that might make an impact.

More likely to get one who'll make a impact by buying some player on their way up and in demand from our level or below rather than ones passed over by other clubs. We have bought dozens of players passed over by other clubs in the last few years and I would argue the proportion that came good is not particularly high but good enough to get us where we are but no more.

Need a different and more positive approach if we want to push on from here and more certain starters rather than being awash with distinctly average British/Irish squad players.

 

[MBH]

When Chris Wilder took over at Bramall Lane at the beginning of last season, the club was in an absolute state. He inherited a fairly poor squad that was underachieving in league one.

Fast forward 18 months and he has transformed us into a top half championship club. A quite remarkable job. He deserves all the plaudits he gets, we have done it with passion, guile, quality and plenty of entertainment - it’s been superb!

However, the reality is, he (or anyone) is going to struggle to take us much beyond the point we are at.

Since time immemorial, Blades fans have been trying to convince themselves that we wouldn’t want to be a club that was ‘spunkin money’ away to try and gain success, citing our neighbours and other failures with big budgets. However, it just takes a quick glance at the championship table to know that, despite all these protestations, money simply buys you success. The current top 6 will be not far off the 6 largest spenders in the division and that is the equilibrium football has reached. It creates a glass ceiling that clubs such as ourselves would need an immense stroke of luck to get through, but still incredibly unlikely.

Now we know we will never being spenders in the championship under the current ownership, and that’s fine. We just need to accept that, unless someone on here has £150 million sat in their bank collecting dust. I also feel a dose of realism is needed about expectations of the club, and Wilder, from here on in.

Before our L1 days we were an ‘Ipswich’. A very average second tier club that sometimes flirted with the playoffs. That’s what Wilder has achieved in his time here, but it is our ‘natural’ place and one we shouldn’t take for granted.

This has stemmed from my thoughts about improving for next season. I think most would agree our first move should be up front. We need a good championship striker to get us through games like yesterday. Then I realised, well there’s no chance! Look at those top 6 sides.... striker values:

Wolves - Neves - £14 million (just an example of many to be fair)
Cardiff - Madine - £6 million
Fulham - Rui Fonte - £8 million (plus rejecting £30 million for Cairney in Jan!)
Villa - hogan - £12 million
Derby - Vydra - £7million
Boro - Assombalonga - £14 million

And all of a sudden you realise just how difficult it’s going to be to reach those heights. Wilder has done an amazing jobs, but games like yesterday are won by players of a similar ilk to those mentioned above, none of which we will be able to get.

Well done Chris, an amazing job done, but I find it difficult to see us being able to move on from here without some genuine investment.

Can I suggest that people look at how Burnley has done this and perhaps suggest that they are the model for clubs like Sheffield United and my own club, Sunderland AFC, to follow?

To my knowledge they havent spent particularly big, they allowed themselves to be relegated from the PL without prostituting their club on the alter of the premier greed league and by doing it in stages, patiently, with an unfashionable British manager they are quietly going about their business.

Oh to be Burnley!

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Wednesday were paying more for players 20 years ago than we are now and look where it got them.

 

[Darthblade]

We will break our transfer record in the summer.

I shall not be holding my breath in this prediction, as we have seen no evidence from Board level that there is any stomach for increasing the levels of investment in the first team squad, beyond the modest levels we have seen so far.

I very much hope to be proven wrong .......

UTB & FTP

 

[Cerberus Blade]

When Chris Wilder took over at Bramall Lane at the beginning of last season, the club was in an absolute state. He inherited a fairly poor squad that was underachieving in league one.

Fast forward 18 months and he has transformed us into a top half championship club. A quite remarkable job. He deserves all the plaudits he gets, we have done it with passion, guile, quality and plenty of entertainment - it’s been superb!

However, the reality is, he (or anyone) is going to struggle to take us much beyond the point we are at.

Since time immemorial, Blades fans have been trying to convince themselves that we wouldn’t want to be a club that was ‘spunkin money’ away to try and gain success, citing our neighbours and other failures with big budgets. However, it just takes a quick glance at the championship table to know that, despite all these protestations, money simply buys you success. The current top 6 will be not far off the 6 largest spenders in the division and that is the equilibrium football has reached. It creates a glass ceiling that clubs such as ourselves would need an immense stroke of luck to get through, but still incredibly unlikely.

Now we know we will never being spenders in the championship under the current ownership, and that’s fine. We just need to accept that, unless someone on here has £150 million sat in their bank collecting dust. I also feel a dose of realism is needed about expectations of the club, and Wilder, from here on in.

Before our L1 days we were an ‘Ipswich’. A very average second tier club that sometimes flirted with the playoffs. That’s what Wilder has achieved in his time here, but it is our ‘natural’ place and one we shouldn’t take for granted.

This has stemmed from my thoughts about improving for next season. I think most would agree our first move should be up front. We need a good championship striker to get us through games like yesterday. Then I realised, well there’s no chance! Look at those top 6 sides.... striker values:

Wolves - Neves - £14 million (just an example of many to be fair)
Cardiff - Madine - £6 million
Fulham - Rui Fonte - £8 million (plus rejecting £30 million for Cairney in Jan!)
Villa - hogan - £12 million
Derby - Vydra - £7million
Boro - Assombalonga - £14 million

And all of a sudden you realise just how difficult it’s going to be to reach those heights. Wilder has done an amazing jobs, but games like yesterday are won by players of a similar ilk to those mentioned above, none of which we will be able to get.

Well done Chris, an amazing job done, but I find it difficult to see us being able to move on from here without some genuine investment.

Some good points there and I agree with most of it, but, I'm not agreeing that we were "an Ipswich" during our last spell in the Championship. With the exception of the last fateful season when we got relegated, we were knocking on the door of the Top 6 every season.

Do you think we should spend £10 - £14M on one player? I don't personally. I think it's far too big a risk. I'd much rather us spend a modest amount and supplement our squad with loans from the Prem of players who may eventually change hands for that kind of money.

Take Wilson for example. If we'd tried to buy him from Man Utd, what would we have paid for him right now? I'd suggest they would want a minimum of £5M (maybe more like £10M) for a bloke some Man U fans reckon is a better finisher than Rashford. Is he worth that? Would you be happy to have seen us "spunk" £5M on him?

Did you see Forest's number 9 on saturday? What did you make of him? His name's Darryl Murphy btw. Newcastle paid Ipswich £4M for him. Worth it do you think? I hardly think so! But he had a prolific season for Ipswich in 2015 and Newcastle were in soon after with £4M smackers. He's done bugger all since.

We have to be so, so, careful. It's a minefield out there and it would be easy to throw daft money at average players who've had one good season and have hit the headlines.

That's why I prefer Wilder's style of catching them on the way up, not on the way down.

However, I do agree that increased investment would improve our chances of success enormously. Give Wilder £10M to spend on the squad, not on one player, and I think he'll do wonders with it.

 

[blade too long]

it still astounds me the utter total lack of belief in some blades
Id hate to think I had some of these people running our club
This unless we get someone to put in 50m tomorrow attitude we are fecked stinks

Did no one see Huddersfield go up
did everyone miss Blackpool go up

the clubs who have spent small fortunes like boro derby why are they only 2 points clear of our poverty stricken set of street urchins

8 games to go 5 at home win all 8 no one can stop us going into play offs
but no w some so called fans see us slumping to 12th or 13th

no doubt the same fans who said wed blown it after the 1-1 draw at oldham last season

wish some of our fans bollocks would drop and show a bit of resiliance instead of bleating about not having a club billionaire to
spend 10m on shit like rhodes

mccabe wants the best available future for the club , lets see how it pans out before declaring our imminent fall into the Vanarama some are longing for

 

[Maidenhead]

it still astounds me the utter total lack of belief in some blades
Id hate to think I had some of these people running our club
This unless we get someone to put in 50m tomorrow attitude we are fecked stinks

Did no one see Huddersfield go up
did everyone miss Blackpool go up

the clubs who have spent small fortunes like boro derby why are they only 2 points clear of our poverty stricken set of street urchins

8 games to go 5 at home win all 8 no one can stop us going into play offs
but no w some so called fans see us slumping to 12th or 13th

no doubt the same fans who said wed blown it after the 1-1 draw at oldham last season

wish some of our fans bollocks would drop and show a bit of resiliance instead of bleating about not having a club billionaire to
spend 10m on shit like rhodes

mccabe wants the best available future for the club , lets see how it pans out before declaring our imminent fall into the Vanarama some are longing for

Errrrrrr 4 at home actually but I get your drift

 

[Lawrence]

We will break our transfer record in the summer.

Haaahaaa, sorry couldn’t help it, I’ve been a Unitedite for too long, seen it all before! So we are going to sign a player for more than 4mill? (Why didn’t we do it in January.?)

 

[blade too long]

Haaahaaa, sorry couldn’t help it, I’ve been a Unitedite for too long, seen it all before! So we are going to sign a player for more than 4mill? (Why didn’t we do it in January.?)

who was available

 

[mattbianco1]

Haaahaaa, sorry couldn’t help it, I’ve been a Unitedite for too long, seen it all before! So we are going to sign a player for more than 4mill? (Why didn’t we do it in January.?)

We've sustained our league position, and more. We have been on TV too many times to remember. We are averaging crowds above 26k.

Just because we are running the club within the bounds and rules set out, people use that to have a dig.

Our turnover this year will be quite considerable in comparison to recent times.

If we don't spend North of £10/15m in the next window, wilder will be off

 

[robbiez666]

I can't imagine Fleck or Duffy ever reaching a ceiling.

 

[robbiez666]

We appear to be trying to emulate is the Burnley model.

They defend from the front and rely on having a well-drilled team. They spend frugally and then splash money at the occasional attacking player who has the ability to create something from nothing. In 30 games they've scored 27 and conceded 26 goals, but are 7th in the table.

We employ the high press in order to try and cause mistakes and get chances. We're well-drilled and a very well-organised and hard-working team. It's rare we play a team who outworks us, and if we do we almost always lose. When we come up against a well-organised team we have two players who have the ability to create something out of nothing, Duffy and Brooks. Baldock and Fleck can occasionally do it as well, but if those two aren't on form we struggle to create chances. Our strikers aren't generally good enough to create on their own unless the opposition make a mistake.

Let's face it, on a weekly basis we face teams with better players than ours. If most of those park the bus and play well as a unit we're in trouble. If they make mistakes or leave gaps we can prosper.

Those game changing players are expensive. It's why the likes of Snodgrass or Bamford are so sought after but are operating in the Championship. They don't have the attitude, fitness, consistency, injury-record etc to play in the top flight, but they do have the skill. Most teams have at least one of these type of players. Some have several. I believe the reason we chased Holmes was because he had this ability in the lower leagues and Wilder took the punt that he'd be able to replicate it in the Championship.

We're still punching well above our weight. I think we'd be struggling against relegation if Wilder wasn't here.

 

[sportinguista in Warsaw]

Personally I don't think we have reached our potential ceiling but we have if we keep doing what we are doing. I used to think after a poor result they'd all sit down the next day and watch the video and agree what needs to change with set pieces and how we play up front and then go and practice it on the training pitch. Having seen many clueless games like yesterday I can only assume they don't and just go for a jog, play head tennis and talk about their fancy cars.

With better organisation and technique and having a plan for what we are to going to do when we have the ball in the final third our ceiling could be much higher. Spending tens of millions on fancy strikers to just play the same way would be futile, its an illusion, there needs to be a practiced plan.

After Stanislas scored his free kick yesterday they asked him about it and he said "yeah I practice about a dozen of those a day". Do we see any evidence our players do the same.

...on your final point about Stanislas and his extra practice...how long does it take to practice a dozen free kicks? Bag of balls, one of those training walls they have, and no doubt he doesn't even collect the balls afterwards...so about ten mins tops.

 

[steve26272]

It seemed a sizeable fee at the time. The fees paid for players in the modern game doesn't quite seem a fair comparison simply because of how bat-shit it's all gone. A quick calculation to adjust for inflation shows it'd be a £5,320,000 fee today (http://inflation.iamkate.com/), but if you had a player of Beattie's age and ability around that time now, he'd probably be going for double that.

i reckon if a player of Beatties quality was on the market today,given Madine(£6m), Rhodes(£10m (haha!)) and Assombalonga(£12m) he would be £20m+.
the problem isn't really the fee, it's the weekly wage, and instability it brings to the team
we bring in say Danny Ings frim Liverpool reserves, £15mil, but £60k per week?
all of a sudden you have half a dozen players asking for parity. That's the problem, you've just put £1.5m per month on your wage bill

 

[Cerberus Blade]

We appear to be trying to emulate is the Burnley model.

They defend from the front and rely on having a well-drilled team. They spend frugally and then splash money at the occasional attacking player who has the ability to create something from nothing. In 30 games they've scored 27 and conceded 26 goals, but are 7th in the table.

We employ the high press in order to try and cause mistakes and get chances. We're well-drilled and a very well-organised and hard-working team. It's rare we play a team who outworks us, and if we do we almost always lose. When we come up against a well-organised team we have two players who have the ability to create something out of nothing, Duffy and Brooks. Baldock and Fleck can occasionally do it as well, but if those two aren't on form we struggle to create chances. Our strikers aren't generally good enough to create on their own unless the opposition make a mistake.

Let's face it, on a weekly basis we face teams with better players than ours. If most of those park the bus and play well as a unit we're in trouble. If they make mistakes or leave gaps we can prosper.

Those game changing players are expensive. It's why the likes of Snodgrass or Bamford are so sought after but are operating in the Championship. They don't have the attitude, fitness, consistency, injury-record etc to play in the top flight, but they do have the skill. Most teams have at least one of these type of players. Some have several. I believe the reason we chased Holmes was because he had this ability in the lower leagues and Wilder took the punt that he'd be able to replicate it in the Championship.

We're still punching well above our weight. I think we'd be struggling against relegation if Wilder wasn't here.

I think that's the most accurate and sensible assessment of our team that I've ever seen on here. I see it exactly like that too. And that's also why I really think it's urgent that we try and get out of the division this season and get to the Prem. Because Wilder is going there, make no mistake. If he isn't backed at United he'll go there with another club in the next 12 months. Simple as really. And we'll not find another manager like him who understand the club and the fans - and can find players on the cheap and get them playing well as a unit.

 

[sheffielder]

You're right. But it is only Wales...

Is that you Eddie?

 

[blade too long]

in football there are no ceilings , except at the top of the prem as thats the top
under that anythings possible
any ceiling is self inflicted
was there a ceiling beating derby and wolves at home or winning at norwich hillsboro or leeds
footballs a game where you can exceed expectations and in the main we are continuing to do just that

and if theres the belief , we can still go further