The weight of history

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Most Blades are proud of the club's history and traditions, but at the same time weighed down by the experience of being a Blade for as long as any of us can recall. With 11 games to go, and following a great start to the season and a dip in form since, we are still in the position of winning all our games (11 + play-offs), and we are promoted. Our fate is in our own hands, unlike the majority of the clubs in the league. We are not favourites for promotion, but most of us would be more pessimistic about our chances than the bookies are. We know that miracles can occur in football, but for many decades our experience has only been of turning imminent success into sudden failure. I don't need to go through them - my user name refers to just one instance of many. When we have succeeded (promotion/avoiding relegation) it has been from a position of strength (even the 5-2 at Leicester was a match when we were already favourites to go up). Can anyone recall a run of results in the last few games of a season which allowed us against the odds to grab promotion or avoid relegation? I can't. I hope for once that the majority of our squad have no sense of history (difficult for Billy, Ched and Wilder), and are prepared to go all out for promotion, believing it can be done. I would love for once in my life for us to win unexpected success, rather than just have our pessimism about last-minute failures re-inforced.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

We’ve done it the other way round where we’ve looked certain to stay up then been relegated.

 

[South Bucks]

I know you mean well but lets face it we are too weak up top to go up via the play offs.

How many play off finals do we need to go to to realise to go up there has to be a viable threat up front or its a waste of time and in most of those and now we just don't have it other than wishful nostalgia.

Time to rebuild for next season with more emphasis on making the opposition more scared of us scoring rather than the other way around and hoping for rewards based on solid defence and a rare goal against top teams.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Quite the opposite I'm afraid.

I remeber sitting in the stands at Stamford Bridge @4.20pm 7th from bottom of Division 1. Relegated 20 minutes later.

Also remember the Givens penalty.

Also remember the Webber miss.

That Doc Pace supposed handball at Elland Road when it was 0-0 in first of three semi-finals v Leicester.

When Hudders missed two of first three penalties.

The Hopkins 'worldie'.

The Mike Dean 'no penalty' decision for Walker 5 minutes from time.

The other way round? Mike Dean giving us that dodgy penalty in a meaningless game v Rotherham.

Not another thing in 60 yearsthat I recall.

BTW SUFC are never favourites outside 4th tier and that doesn't count.

 

[Steve Mackan]

I know you mean well but lets face it we are too weak up top to go up via the play offs.

How many play off finals do we need to go to to realise to go up there has to be a viable threat up front or its a waste of time and in most of those and now we just don't have it other than wishful nostalgia.

Time to rebuild for next season with more emphasis on making the opposition more scared of us scoring rather than the other way around and hoping for rewards based on solid defence and a rare goal against top teams.

I don't get this mentality at all. Are you saying you don't want us to go up, or we can't?

Either way, more ridiculous things have happened. In fact, arguably, the play-off finals we have lost are the testament to the fact that the best team over a course of a season, don't always go up. It is wishful thinking, you're right, but it's not totally impossible.

 

[alcoblade]

I like the OP and agree with a lot of it, but just a point on our history;

We have nothing to be proud of. We’ve punched well below our weight for most of our history, and it’s taken a special kind of effort for a club of our size to win so little.,

There are many roadblocks to any promotion, but being weighed down by our history can’t be one of them - other than by our recent glorious play off debacles. I’m convinced that this team (Wilder) won’t be weighed down by that either.

Any (likely) failure would because this team is already punching way above its’ weight, play-offs or not.

 

[Rodley]

I do think with threads with titles like “The Weight of History” only go to show that SUFC fans suffer from a little melodrama at times!

1st season back, we’re doing outstanding and still in the mix for the playoffs. At some point in the future we’ll need a bit more investment, but that’ll take time to find (a) someone with the clover and the interest to invest, and; (b) confirm they’re not an absolute nutter. Not an easy task, just look at S6. Until then we’ll have to try and emulate the model of Burnley, Huddersfield et al and build a team with steady and shrewd investment, top drawer coaching and a cohesive team spirit. We’re not far off.

 

[blade too long]

weve won div 4 and league one titles as champions
wednesdays not won a title while Ive been watching football
winning over cardiff 5-1
winning at lleicester 5-2
staying up in 91 after being adrift bottom at xmas
bookers header at QPR
Darlingon and and a 1-0 win at cardiff

seen 15 seasons in the top flightin my time
top for the first 10 in 72

4 FA semi finals as a lower division team
some prem teams have never seen a cup semi

weve been robbed of a few glory nights winning promotions when not playing

got to 7 play offs , 3 as 3rd before play offs that would have been 3 more promotions
and at least 3 more top flight seasons

wednesdays been to 3 all as 4th or 5th
owls were last ever team promoted automatically in 3rd

its weird the only play off win by a sheffield club in 10 attempts been against a now non league side


all of this with tin pot boards without a pot to piss in compared to some

 

[derfblade.3]

Quite the opposite I'm afraid.

I remeber sitting in the stands at Stamford Bridge @4.20pm 7th from bottom of Division 1. Relegated 20 minutes later.

Also remember the Givens penalty.

Also remember the Webber miss.

That Doc Pace supposed handball at Elland Road when it was 0-0 in first of three semi-finals v Leicester.

When Hudders missed two of first three penalties.

The Hopkins 'worldie'.

The Mike Dean 'no penalty' decision for Walker 5 minutes from time.

The other way round? Mike Dean giving us that dodgy penalty in a meaningless game v Rotherham.

Not another thing in 60 yearsthat I recall.

BTW SUFC are never favourites outside 4th tier and that doesn't count.

Didn't Hudders miss all of the first 3 pens?

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

I know you mean well but lets face it we are too weak up top to go up via the play offs.

How many play off finals do we need to go to to realise to go up there has to be a viable threat up front or its a waste of time and in most of those and now we just don't have it other than wishful nostalgia.

Time to rebuild for next season with more emphasis on making the opposition more scared of us scoring rather than the other way around and hoping for rewards based on solid defence and a rare goal against top teams.

It is a 1 in 4 chance of being promoted if you get in the play-offs, but I think I am right in saying our record is 0 from 8. Other teams have crept into the play-offs, and gone up. Why should that not be us one year? Is there a danger that this becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy? This is why I hope the current players know little about our history. I bet Millwall, in an inferior position to us, are thinking they could make it into the play-offs, and then get promoted. Surely once in our lives we will get an unexpected, out-of-the blue undeserved success. It does happen.

 

[derfblade.3]

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Quite the opposite I'm afraid.

I remeber sitting in the stands at Stamford Bridge @4.20pm 7th from bottom of Division 1. Relegated 20 minutes later.

Also remember the Givens penalty.

Also remember the Webber miss.

That Doc Pace supposed handball at Elland Road when it was 0-0 in first of three semi-finals v Leicester.

When Hudders missed two of first three penalties.

The Hopkins 'worldie'.

The Mike Dean 'no penalty' decision for Walker 5 minutes from time.

The other way round? Mike Dean giving us that dodgy penalty in a meaningless game v Rotherham.

Not another thing in 60 yearsthat I recall.

BTW SUFC are never favourites outside 4th tier and that doesn't count.

By being favourites, I only meant that each promotion I remember, we were in a promotion spot before the end of the season; I don't remember a late surge getting us in at the last minute. I am a bit hazy about the tight run-in in 1970-71, but I remember that our fate was already in our hands for the last match, as was the case at Leicester years later. And the disasters you outline are just some examples - but I don't recall any last game of the season wins that kept us up - but that has happened plenty to other clubs.

 

[Hague Blade]

I don't get this mentality at all. Are you saying you don't want us to go up, or we can't?

Either way, more ridiculous things have happened. In fact, arguably, the play-off finals we have lost are the testament to the fact that the best team over a course of a season, don't always go up. It is wishful thinking, you're right, but it's not totally impossible.

It’s just optimism versus pessimism, isn’t it? I suspect it’s innate to some degree - I’m the opposite to you: I don’t get the mentality that clings to the idea that we can make the play-offs until it’s mathematically impossible, when we’re in ninth place, with a modest goal difference and are losing as many as we’re winning. Each to their own - I’d absolutely love to be proved wrong, but I guess it’s just my way of preparing myself for the potential disappointment.

 

[blade too long]

By being favourites, I only meant that each promotion I remember, we were in a promotion spot before the end of the season; I don't remember a late surge getting us in at the last minute. I am a bit hazy about the tight run-in in 1970-71, but I remember that our fate was already in our hands for the last match, as was the case at Leicester years later. And the disasters you outline are just some examples - but I don't recall any last game of the season wins that kept us up - but that has happened plenty to other clubs.

first season back in 91 /2 didnt win a game until forest mid december , got through that fine

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

I like the OP and agree with a lot of it, but just a point on our history;

We have nothing to be proud of. We’ve punched well below our weight for most of our history, and it’s taken a special kind of effort for a club of our size to win so little.,

There are many roadblocks to any promotion, but being weighed down by our history can’t be one of them - other than by our recent glorious play off debacles. I’m convinced that this team (Wilder) won’t be weighed down by that either.

Any (likely) failure would because this team is already punching way above its’ weight, play-offs or not.

Our pre World War 2 history is one to be proud of, and we have had teams that have made (most of) us proud - the eras of Hagan; Hodgy and Joe Shaw: Currie and Woodward; Bassett; Warnock for many, etc. But it is not just the play-off failures - look at the relegations of 1968, 1981, 1994, 2007 - all from positions of relative safety, going all wrong at the last minute. And no last minute escapes to compensate. This is surely at the heart of the gallows humour and pessimism of our fans; I am convinced our luck will change one day, but I am beginning to think it won't be in my lifetime. And in just about every other aspect of my life, I consider myself to have been very lucky.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

I do think with threads with titles like “The Weight of History” only go to show that SUFC fans suffer from a little melodrama at times!

1st season back, we’re doing outstanding and still in the mix for the playoffs. At some point in the future we’ll need a bit more investment, but that’ll take time to find (a) someone with the clover and the interest to invest, and; (b) confirm they’re not an absolute nutter. Not an easy task, just look at S6. Until then we’ll have to try and emulate the model of Burnley, Huddersfield et al and build a team with steady and shrewd investment, top drawer coaching and a cohesive team spirit. We’re not far off.

I plead guilty to the charge of melodrama (but our repeated failures over many years are enough to make anyone melodramatic), and I agree with the rest of your analysis. At age 70, I don't want to wait much longer...I am sure our players are good professionals, but sports people are notoriously superstitious.

 

[South Bucks]

I don't get this mentality at all. Are you saying you don't want us to go up, or we can't?

Either way, more ridiculous things have happened. In fact, arguably, the play-off finals we have lost are the testament to the fact that the best team over a course of a season, don't always go up. It is wishful thinking, you're right, but it's not totally impossible.

I'd luv us to go up but with a play off season ticket I believe its less likely that a big lottery win with nowt much going on up front and is as deluded as anything that comes out of S6. Time to accept it and blood a few youngsters and plan for next season. I like optimism to be founded on evidence of recent good things against the top six rather just faith things will miraculously turn around by doing nowt.

 

[Bayingblade]

Promotion??? I’m still working out if we are safe!!

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

weve won div 4 and league one titles as champions
wednesdays not won a title while Ive been watching football
winning over cardiff 5-1
winning at lleicester 5-2
staying up in 91 after being adrift bottom at xmas
bookers header at QPR
Darlingon and and a 1-0 win at cardiff

seen 15 seasons in the top flightin my time
top for the first 10 in 72

4 FA semi finals as a lower division team
some prem teams have never seen a cup semi

weve been robbed of a few glory nights winning promotions when not playing

got to 7 play offs , 3 as 3rd before play offs that would have been 3 more promotions
and at least 3 more top flight seasons

wednesdays been to 3 all as 4th or 5th
owls were last ever team promoted automatically in 3rd

its weird the only play off win by a sheffield club in 10 attempts been against a now non league side


all of this with tin pot boards without a pot to piss in compared to some

Nice try at cheering me up, but you have rather emphasised my original point - we have not experienced the pleasure of an end-of-season surprise. After being bottom of the league at Xmas, Booker's winner at QPR came after such a good run that we were safe well before the end of the season (I think). I don't think we have ever played an end-of-season game which has either moved us up to a promotion place or out of a relegation spot. The reverse has been all too common, certainly in the case of relegation and play-off failures.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

It’s just optimism versus pessimism, isn’t it? I suspect it’s innate to some degree - I’m the opposite to you: I don’t get the mentality that clings to the idea that we can make the play-offs until it’s mathematically impossible, when we’re in ninth place, with a modest goal difference and are losing as many as we’re winning. Each to their own - I’d absolutely love to be proved wrong, but I guess it’s just my way of preparing myself for the potential disappointment.

A sensible frame of mind for self-preservation. But why do we never get the pleasure of an unexpected happy ending? We have had more than our fair share of sad endings.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

first season back in 91 /2 didnt win a game until forest mid december , got through that fine

Yes; but we earned that with a superb run of results, and if my memory is correct, we were well clear before the final matches. That was no last minute Houdini escape (like Walsall achieved at the Lane in 1981 with Givens' missed penalty).

 

[Pollingtonblade]

weve won div 4 and league one titles as champions
wednesdays not won a title while Ive been watching football
winning over cardiff 5-1
winning at lleicester 5-2
staying up in 91 after being adrift bottom at xmas
bookers header at QPR
Darlingon and and a 1-0 win at cardiff

seen 15 seasons in the top flightin my time
top for the first 10 in 72

4 FA semi finals as a lower division team
some prem teams have never seen a cup semi

weve been robbed of a few glory nights winning promotions when not playing

got to 7 play offs , 3 as 3rd before play offs that would have been 3 more promotions
and at least 3 more top flight seasons

wednesdays been to 3 all as 4th or 5th
owls were last ever team promoted automatically in 3rd

its weird the only play off win by a sheffield club in 10 attempts been against a now non league side


all of this with tin pot boards without a pot to piss in compared to some

When were pigs promoted in 3rd?

If you’re referring to 83/84 they weren’t the last team promoted in 3rd

 

[alcoblade]

Our pre World War 2 history is one to be proud of, and we have had teams that have made (most of) us proud - the eras of Hagan; Hodgy and Joe Shaw: Currie and Woodward; Bassett; Warnock for many, etc. But it is not just the play-off failures - look at the relegations of 1968, 1981, 1994, 2007 - all from positions of relative safety, going all wrong at the last minute. And no last minute escapes to compensate. This is surely at the heart of the gallows humour and pessimism of our fans; I am convinced our luck will change one day, but I am beginning to think it won't be in my lifetime. And in just about every other aspect of my life, I consider myself to have been very lucky.

Agreed, our early history was good - since then, in most people's lifetime, not so.

I'm the typical Blade, pessimistic but accept our deficiencies with humour. At almost 50, it's taken until now to get a manager who I think has the ability to turn our fortunes around. With Basset and Warnock it always felt as though we were, and always would be, swimming against a tide. For once, under Wilder, it feels as though this might change. We must keep hold of this manager, at "all" cost.



UTB

 

[Steve Mackan]

It’s just optimism versus pessimism, isn’t it? I suspect it’s innate to some degree - I’m the opposite to you: I don’t get the mentality that clings to the idea that we can make the play-offs until it’s mathematically impossible, when we’re in ninth place, with a modest goal difference and are losing as many as we’re winning. Each to their own - I’d absolutely love to be proved wrong, but I guess it’s just my way of preparing myself for the potential disappointment.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Adkins. I'm not waiting for mathematically impossible, but I don't think winning 4 of next 5 is out of our reach either.

I'd luv us to go up but with a play off season ticket I believe its less likely that a big lottery win with nowt much going on up front and is as deluded as anything that comes out of S6. Time to accept it and blood a few youngsters and plan for next season. I like optimism to be founded on evidence of recent good things against the top six rather just faith things will miraculously turn around by doing nowt.

Blood youngsters? Wilder didn't do that once we were crowned Champions last season. Though we need to play Brooks as much as we can, but only cos he's our only pacy player bar Donaldson.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

I don't get this mentality at all. Are you saying you don't want us to go up, or we can't?

Either way, more ridiculous things have happened. In fact, arguably, the play-off finals we have lost are the testament to the fact that the best team over a course of a season, don't always go up. It is wishful thinking, you're right, but it's not totally impossible.

It’s not even remotely impossible!

Looking at the table there are 12 teams who have a realistic chance of a play off spot. Let’s take Ipswich as an example. They are currently 12th. If they beat us on Saturday they are 1 point behind us. There are 33 points left to play for.

I don’t think for one minute we will win our last 11 games but neither will any team above us.

3 points off the play-offs and some of you have given up already eh? And some of you are talking about “consolidation” and “building for next season” as if something magical is going to happen during the summer that will see us emerge stronger next season! How many times have we thought that? That’s what them at S6 we’re thinking last season! That’s what we were thinking when we signed Sabella and Len de Goey! And appointed Robson and promised to give him a budget to match our promotion ambitions!

Look at all those things turned out!

And we have all this uncertainty over the ownership of the club now and yet some of you think next season is a better opportunity than this one?

No it isn’t.

THIS is the best opportunity Sheffield United have had of getting back to the Prem in over a decade. I hope the players aren’t thinking as negatively as some on here are! I know the manager isn’t.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

weve won div 4 and league one titles as champions
wednesdays not won a title while Ive been watching football
winning over cardiff 5-1
winning at lleicester 5-2
staying up in 91 after being adrift bottom at xmas
bookers header at QPR
Darlingon and and a 1-0 win at cardiff

seen 15 seasons in the top flightin my time
top for the first 10 in 72

4 FA semi finals as a lower division team
some prem teams have never seen a cup semi

weve been robbed of a few glory nights winning promotions when not playing

got to 7 play offs , 3 as 3rd before play offs that would have been 3 more promotions
and at least 3 more top flight seasons

wednesdays been to 3 all as 4th or 5th
owls were last ever team promoted automatically in 3rd

its weird the only play off win by a sheffield club in 10 attempts been against a now non league side


all of this with tin pot boards without a pot to piss in compared to some

Blade Too Long?

Nah, more to come.

 

[blade too long]

When were pigs promoted in 3rd?

If you’re referring to 83/84 they weren’t the last team promoted in 3rd

Year they won the league cup

 

[grafikhaus]

Didn't Hudders miss all of the first 3 pens?

Yup. Hudders. took the first penalty, and they went like this (X = miss, / = scored):

Hudders: X X X / /

Blades: X / X X /

So it was 2-2 and the pens. were now 'sudden death'. Once again, Hudders. started - in front of their own fans. Bit unfair, that. Huddersfield scored all six of their 'extra time pens', the first being scored by Jordan Rhodes (before he lost his nerve) and another was scored by Jack 'Nutmeg' Cunt.

Hudders: / / / / / /

United scored their first five penalties, and the score was tied at 7-7. Up stepped Steve Simonsen...

Blades: / / / / / X

 

[coaxingstar71]

Yup. Hudders. took the first penalty, and they went like this (X = miss, / = scored):

Hudders: X X X / /

Blades: X / X X /

So it was 2-2 and the pens. were now 'sudden death'. Once again, Hudders. started - in front of their own fans. Bit unfair, that. Huddersfield scored all six of their 'extra time pens', the first being scored by Jordan Rhodes (before he lost his nerve) and another was scored by Jack 'Nutmeg' Cunt.

Hudders: / / / / / /

United scored their first five penalties, and the score was tied at 7-7. Up stepped Steve Simonsen...

Blades: / / / / / X

That's the first time I've ever watched that! Cheers.

Going back to the OP, I can't think of any times we've achieved something in the last game but didn't we get even closer to relegation in 1992/93? Think we won our last 3 games of the season to ensure safety and ended up finishing 14th.

The closest I can think of is 1983/84 when it was decided in a game we didn't even play in, when Hull could only win 2-0 at Burnley. Arguably though, if we'd only beaten Newport 1-0 a few days earlier, Hull would have been promoted instead of us.

 

[Blade-on-Tyne]

Most Blades are proud of the club's history and traditions, but at the same time weighed down by the experience of being a Blade for as long as any of us can recall. With 11 games to go, and following a great start to the season and a dip in form since, we are still in the position of winning all our games (11 + play-offs), and we are promoted. Our fate is in our own hands, unlike the majority of the clubs in the league. We are not favourites for promotion, but most of us would be more pessimistic about our chances than the bookies are. We know that miracles can occur in football, but for many decades our experience has only been of turning imminent success into sudden failure. I don't need to go through them - my user name refers to just one instance of many. When we have succeeded (promotion/avoiding relegation) it has been from a position of strength (even the 5-2 at Leicester was a match when we were already favourites to go up). Can anyone recall a run of results in the last few games of a season which allowed us against the odds to grab promotion or avoid relegation? I can't. I hope for once that the majority of our squad have no sense of history (difficult for Billy, Ched and Wilder), and are prepared to go all out for promotion, believing it can be done. I would love for once in my life for us to win unexpected success, rather than just have our pessimism about last-minute failures re-inforced.

I would like to see the playoffs scrapped altogether and have a simple four up- four down system. If playoffs are such a good idea why don't we have them for relegation as well ? All they do is to drag out the season and turn a league where the best teams get to the top into a cup tie lottery.
As far as the Blades are concerned we have only to look across to S6 to see what a playoff fiasco can do for the players and fans. Better an honourable seventh place this year and reinforce for an automatic spot in 2019.