Old Photos For No Reason Whatsoever

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The Derwent Dam
Derwent Valley (Derbyshire)
Opened - 05 September 1912
 

Woodwaaard said:
What is the Gent with his back to Surrey Street doing in relation to the tram in foreground?

I have no knowledge of trams...
Click to expand...

I think it is just an illusion. The man is bending forward but he is nowhere near the trolley pole which is in contact with the overhead power supply. At the terminus the trolley pole would be swung round by the conductor as it was easier for the tram to pull it than push it. On damp days a lot of arcing would appear between the trolley pole and overhead wire.

I don't think the Town Hall was classed as a terminus so there would be no reason for the trolley pole to be moved at that point.

The pole was spring loaded and the roller on the trolley pole would make contact with the underside of the overhead power cable. This was very inefficient so the pantograph was designed to take over from the trolley pole.

I'm sure someone will correct me but the current Supertram uses a Z shaped pantograph to take power from the overhead cable and is much more efficient than the trolley pole.
 
I think the loss of those trams goes to highlight the shortsightedness and pack mentality of local government. Every other borough in the country did away with them, was Sheffield the last? in the 1950s and 60s apart from Blackpool where they were just a seaside attraction.

In a lot of continental cities, Amsterdam and Vienna spring to Editmind, they never got rid of them and so, still have comprehensive networks of proper streetcars, down the middle of the road like these - now with little platforms one kerbstone high like traffic islands, sure you have to cross the road to get to them but then, they'll be a zebra crossing or something to make it safe. Disabled access is acheived by dipping the floor level right down to kerb-level.

The newly introduced systems like in Sheffield are too separate from the rest of the road on high railway station style platforms, they wreck the cityscape & are just extensions of the train system with all the health and safety thinking that bringing them back within the last 20 years implies and of course they are hopelessly lacking in scope, 2 or 3 lines at best. Fat lot of use that was in Croydon btw.

clang, clang, clang, went the trolley.
 
vorpal blade said:
I think the loss of those trams goes to highlight the shortsightedness and pack mentality of local government. Every other borough in the country did away with them, was Sheffield the last? in the 1950s and 60s apart from Blackpool where they were just a seaside attraction.

In a lot of continental cities, Amsterdam and Vienna spring to Editmind, they never got rid of them and so, still have comprehensive networks of proper streetcars, down the middle of the road like these - now with little platforms one kerbstone high like traffic islands, sure you have to cross the road to get to them but then, they'll be a zebra crossing or something to make it safe. Disabled access is acheived by dipping the floor level right down to kerb-level.

The newly introduced systems like in Sheffield are too separate from the rest of the road on high railway station style platforms, they wreck the cityscape & are just extensions of the train system with all the health and safety thinking that bringing them back within the last 20 years implies and of course they are hopelessly lacking in scope, 2 or 3 lines at best. Fat lot of use that was in Croydon btw.

clang, clang, clang, went the trolley.
Click to expand...

Most German cities have them, Hamburg is an exception but I'm not sure why. I never understood why Sheffield Supertram had to be so complex in its conception and therefore so ludicrously expensive.
 
Hamburg Blade said:
Most German cities have them, Hamburg is an exception but I'm not sure why. I never understood why Sheffield Supertram had to be so complex in its conception and therefore so ludicrously expensive.
Click to expand...

Well I suspect that its because the Sheffield version was brand new, all over again, with no inherited system, it had none of the benefits of evolution.

Building regs. aren't applied retrospectively, therefore, most of us live in houses that are for instance, far less insulated than would be legal to build now - if the regulations that apply to trams are applied in the same fashion, it means that had the systems existed, safety changes would be gradual - but having pulled up the lines (stupidly)* - EVERYTHING has to be made again, all staff newly trained, the Hole in the Road filled in, all the roads re-surfaced etc. etc. that and I suspect, thinking of them and their health and safety requirements as railways, rather than, an extension of the bus service all adds to the cost.

By way of example, lets take the Hole in the Road, is that Castle Square now? I suspect it would be quite easy to take a tramline around the hole, but because its a 'train', the turn would be too tight? (if the turn is too tight for trams, if the tramlines hadn't been ripped up, they'd never have had the Hole in the first place .... so they'd never have had to fill it in ... so in Germany and Holland etc. these infrastructure expenses never accrued)

The platforms are railway style too aren't they? they are too high (like train platforms are in Britain) and as a result probably cost 10 x more to build than in Wein or Amsterdam.


*and its not just 20/20 hindsight, it was obvious local authority mindless vandalism in the first place wasn't it - being useless numpties they're specialists in that aren't they? (Don Valley Stadium, Trees etc.)
 
Last edited:
vorpal blade said:
Well I suspect that its because the Sheffield version was brand new, all over again, with no inherited system, it had none of the benefits of evolution.

Building regs. aren't applied retrospectively, therefore, most of us live in houses that are for instance, far less insulated than would be legal to build now - if the regulations that apply to trams are applied in the same fashion, it means that had the systems existed, safety changes would be gradual - but having pulled up the lines (stupidly)* - EVERYTHING has to be made again, all staff newly trained, the Hole in the Road filled in, all the roads re-surfaced etc. etc. that and I suspect, thinking of them and their health and safety requirements as railways, rather than, an extension of the bus service all adds to the cost.

By way of example, lets take the Hole in the Road, is that Castle Square now? I suspect it would be quite easy to take a tramline around the hole, but because its a 'train', the turn would be too tight? (if the turn is too tight for trams, if the tramlines hadn't been ripped up, they'd never have had the Hole in the first place .... so they'd never have had to fill it in ... so in Germany and Holland etc. these infrastructure expenses never accrued)

The platforms are railway style too aren't they? they are too high (like train platforms are in Britain) and as a result probably cost 10 x more to build than in Wein or Amsterdam.


*and its not just 20/20 hindsight, it was obvious local authority mindless vandalism in the first place wasn't it - being useless numpties they're specialists in that aren't they? (Don Valley Stadium, Trees etc.)
Click to expand...

Well that's it really, they decided to make it more of a "train" than a "tram". Complete with special tram-only sections and stations with platforms. Was that really necessary?

vorpal blade said:
its got a half-decent, underground/overground urban transit system though hasn't it? I wouldn't expect Wuppertal would have a tram system ..... (go on, tell me it's got one!)
Click to expand...

Hamburg has an excellent U-bahn / S-bahn - and no, I don't know what the difference is or why they differentiate the two. Neverthless it doesn't replace a tram system - busses do that. I've just checked and apparently Hamburg had an extensive tram network and their wise council decided to shut it down. The last train ran in 1978.
Wuppertal got rid of their trams in 1987 apparently. Odd that you should mention Wuppertal, because they have a, erm, hanging tram.

Eddiecolquhounsleg said:
Underground overground? is it Wombling free?
Click to expand...

Hamburg has two urban train systems, the underground (u-bahn) and fast train (S-bahn). I don't know what the difference is, particularly since the fast train is not faster than the underground train and the underground train is often overground, on account of its proximity to water. Even the underground bits are usually just a few feet down. Those crazy Germans.

In the spirit of the thread, a picture of a Hamburg tram. (Note - no need for a station and platform)

hamburgtram.jpg
 
vorpal blade said:
Well I suspect that its because the Sheffield version was brand new, all over again, with no inherited system, it had none of the benefits of evolution.

Building regs. aren't applied retrospectively, therefore, most of us live in houses that are for instance, far less insulated than would be legal to build now - if the regulations that apply to trams are applied in the same fashion, it means that had the systems existed, safety changes would be gradual - but having pulled up the lines (stupidly)* - EVERYTHING has to be made again, all staff newly trained, the Hole in the Road filled in, all the roads re-surfaced etc. etc. that and I suspect, thinking of them and their health and safety requirements as railways, rather than, an extension of the bus service all adds to the cost.

By way of example, lets take the Hole in the Road, is that Castle Square now? I suspect it would be quite easy to take a tramline around the hole, but because its a 'train', the turn would be too tight? (if the turn is too tight for trams, if the tramlines hadn't been ripped up, they'd never have had the Hole in the first place .... so they'd never have had to fill it in ... so in Germany and Holland etc. these infrastructure expenses never accrued)

The platforms are railway style too aren't they? they are too high (like train platforms are in Britain) and as a result probably cost 10 x more to build than in Wein or Amsterdam.


*and its not just 20/20 hindsight, it was obvious local authority mindless vandalism in the first place wasn't it - being useless numpties they're specialists in that aren't they? (Don Valley Stadium, Trees etc.)
Click to expand...

or its the same thick fuckers that put a parking ticket on a car today parked on private land. :mad:
 
"or its the same thick fuckers that put a parking ticket on a car today parked on private land"

well that's the other thing, as a Doncaster person, how many times have I ended up driving down West Street and my only legal option seems to be pulling into the dead end near the town hall (Leopard St. I think it's called) and three point turning my way out of it. Yes, twice and that's enough for me .... do you lot know how bad it is for a 'foreign' driver? What the eff is happening when you drive up from the Parkway to Castle Square? Even the Pelican crossing knows it's a bollocks and broadcasts morning, noon and ALL night that the traffic can come from two directions ... much to the chagrin of people living in the flats above the old Model Railway shop who can't sleep through the din.
 

Woodward against Chelsea, 1965.?

Wrong probably on all 3 counts, I maybe rubbish, but I am enthusiastic.
 
snootyfenooty said:
That's David Powell with the toothless grin. Would also have gone for Chelsea so pass on the rest.
Click to expand...
Bert also thought it was Bonnetti. He was one of the first to have a number on his back.
 

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