In Conversation with Kevin McCabe (Octagon)

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I should coco said:
Based on what, exactly?

Next thing you know, someone will be posting about a duel to the death in the car park!
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Based on the combination of available cash they have between them to compete in the Championship and the ridiculous amounts they have already sunk in getting out of L1. I’m very grateful to them for that, this isn’t a criticism.

The problem is they both still aspire to get to the PL but it’s difficult to see how they can do that jointly against parachute payment clubs and billionaire owners.

Do you think everything is harmonious between the two on the way forward?
 

I’m no accountant.
But the club value is surely the value of its players registrations added to its income minus what its losing.

So if player values have gone up since league one....and they have significantly, then the value of the club is surely worth a lot more than the pound he purchased with.
Players alone may be worth 70m in total. We are losing still 8-10 m a season after all income. So presently the club could be worth £60m with value falling as certain players values fall over their contract.

All figures are guesstimates.
 
oldblade said:
At the start of the partnership McCabe also wrote off around £30 million of debt.
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Yep, which was when he transferred the real estate to the other company.

I wonder whether the £1 deal Princey/McCabe struck had a fixed figure over a set period that Princey committed to?
You'd think so...maybe he's now exceeded this figure...
 
Sean Thornton said:
However "creative" one wants to be, we aren't talking a few grand here are we?
Criticising a man for spending money he hasn't got access to is ridiculous. The figures shown in the Rich lists aren't in cash in a teapot behind the icing sugar in the cupboard.

Maybe some would chuck money in, it's a grand idea, but would they moan when ticket prices went up?
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Another illusion shattered............:(
 
UnitedBlade said:
Do you think everything is harmonious between the two on the way forward?
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No ideawhcih puts me in the same position as everyone else on here. Two blokes with very different cultures and backgrounds but with a shared aim. I don't think KM will be bothered about a 'harmoniuos relationship' provided they both have the same end in mind.

Of course joint ownership is not ideal but KM simply hasn't got the wherewithal or stomach, to keep making good losses of £5m every season., so he had few options at the time. Whether new options have come to light is another thing entirely.
 
Grizzly blade said:
I’m no accountant.
But the club value is surely the value of its players registrations added to its income minus what its losing.

So if player values have gone up since league one....and they have significantly, then the value of the club is surely worth a lot more than the pound he purchased with.
Players alone may be worth 70m in total. We are losing still 8-10 m a season after all income. So presently the club could be worth £60m with value falling as certain players values fall over their contract.

All figures are guesstimates.
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Surely we are not STILL losing 8-10M a season?
According to the article linked below about Newcastle, every club in the Championship banks at least £6.4M just for being there.
Plus extra TV money based on appearances. We've been on a lot, so maybe another £0.7M.
We're averaging attendances of nearly 27,000 with some big matches still to come (e.g. Leeds, Sunderland, Forest).

Yes, we've rewarded players with new contracts but our wage bill is still stated to be one of the lowest in the division.
If we can't get somewhere close to breaking even this season with income high and wages still relatively low, then surely we never will.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/spo...s/revealed-how-much-newcastle-united-12844008
 
Barnsley were bought recently for £20m, Wednesday were sold for £37.5m in '15. I would suspect that that currently puts us at least £50m for everything (if everything was ever offered for sale). Buts the figure is based on my guesswork & lazy assumptions. :)
 
Nicolaus_Copernicus said:
We are quite possibly the largest club with the poorest owner (relatively speaking) in the country.
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We're undoubtedly the largest club in Europe never to have played in a proper European competition
 
Grizzly blade said:
I’m no accountant.
But the club value is surely the value of its players registrations added to its income minus what its losing.

So if player values have gone up since league one....and they have significantly, then the value of the club is surely worth a lot more than the pound he purchased with.
Players alone may be worth 70m in total. We are losing still 8-10 m a season after all income. So presently the club could be worth £60m with value falling as certain players values fall over their contract.

All figures are guesstimates.
Click to expand...


If you're going to include the possible value of the players in a sale guesstimate, you have to set against that the liability of the player contract costs outstanding.
 

Whatever you think about the Prince, he has put money in, so far as we all know, to help the club cover its losses. He obviously will have a plan to get his money out (I am sure that Jim Phipps, his lawyer at the time, would have made sure of that). We just (as fans) don't know what that plan is.

If we are indeed getting another investor in, I just hope that the investor is just that, an investor, not someone trying to run the club.

While Uncle Kevin might not want to work forever, he is probably still the most qualified person to steer the ship for a few more years, while the new investor looks and learns.

You only have to glance across the city to see things can go disastrously wrong when the investor (with no football knowledge whatsoever) decides he is going to run the club as well. Mr Chancer claims to have put in £150 million already, for a club that is sliding towards the drop zone. If Barnsley beat them, the alarm bells will be ringing louder than ever.

Nothing wrong with that of course, and even if they don't get relegated, their 150th anniversary season has been comedy gold.

I think we all agree that the landscape for the game has changed. I don't think we will ever see a "Blackpool" going up to the top tier again, and even people on the Sunday Times rich list (which Kev McCabe is, or at least was), are no longer rich enough to fund a Championship side and buy the quality of players needed to get to the Premier League.
 
Nicolaus_Copernicus said:
We are quite possibly the largest club with the poorest owner (relatively speaking) in the country.
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but its harsh to blame them for not being rich enough , which seems to be whats happening from some quarters
they seem to give generously from the resouses they have
Im sure Kevin McCabe would pump in more if he had it, but he has to have restraints on his input

Wolves owners are billionaires who can pump into wolves far more money than Kevin is actually worth, we shouldnt use that as a stick to beat him
 
Grappler said:
Whatever you think about the Prince, he has put money in, so far as we all know, to help the club cover its losses. He obviously will have a plan to get his money out (I am sure that Jim Phipps, his lawyer at the time, would have made sure of that). We just (as fans) don't know what that plan is.

If we are indeed getting another investor in, I just hope that the investor is just that, an investor, not someone trying to run the club.

While Uncle Kevin might not want to work forever, he is probably still the most qualified person to steer the ship for a few more years, while the new investor looks and learns.

You only have to glance across the city to see things can go disastrously wrong when the investor (with no football knowledge whatsoever) decides he is going to run the club as well. Mr Chancer claims to have put in £150 million already, for a club that is sliding towards the drop zone. If Barnsley beat them, the alarm bells will be ringing louder than ever.

Nothing wrong with that of course, and even if they don't get relegated, their 150th anniversary season has been comedy gold.

I think we all agree that the landscape for the game has changed. I don't think we will ever see a "Blackpool" going up to the top tier again, and even people on the Sunday Times rich list (which Kev McCabe is, or at least was), are no longer rich enough to fund a Championship side and buy the quality of players needed to get to the Premier League.
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£150m! Doyen's consultancy fees have gone up then!! :)
 
sheffielder said:
I am no expert, but the I would imagine the club (minus the infrastructure) is worth probably around £30m.
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Nicolaus_Copernicus said:
Barnsley were bought recently for £20m, Wednesday were sold for £37.5m in '15. I would suspect that that currently puts us at least £50m for everything
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Not having a pop at all but you'd be buying a business which is currently losing £5m/year, how much would you pay for that?
(Yep there is potential but look what we are competing against (Wolves,Derby,Villa etc) and how much it depends on pivotal figures, Wilder, Coutts, etc)
 
Grizzly blade said:
Funny....in our house it meant no. Can’t ever recall a “we’ll see” working out as a yes.
Generally used to avoid saying no, so as not to cause a Paddy from the young me in the hope they will distract me with something else or into forgetting all about what I was asking for.

Apply that thinking towards United.....”are we getting some huge investment to spend on players Mr McCabe?”

“We’ll see!”

Means no, darent tell them we are desperate for investment and won’t go up without it so will spin them a yarn to keep them off my back...show them that picture of the stadium plans quick!
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But the “yarns” don’t keep anyone off his back. Far from it. Wouldn’t he be better off not turning out to speak at all? It’s rather like the ludicrous notion of making pretend offers for players, to feign ambition when all it achieves is ridicule.

He really can’t win.
 
LondonBlade89 said:
Update for those who can't be bothered to go through the entire thread to find out: there is no update.
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Actually many of us have refined and updated our guesstimates after a thread which even with some mild disagreement has remained civil and even at times interesting. Which shows what can happen when the agenda driven don't try to derail things.
 
8lade said:
Not having a pop at all but you'd be buying a business which is currently losing £5m/year, how much would you pay for that?
(Yep there is potential but look what we are competing against (Wolves,Derby,Villa etc) and how much it depends on pivotal figures, Wilder, Coutts, etc)
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To your point, if you're looking at a club in the Championship, anything making a £5m loss would probably be considered a good deal, especially with the infrastructure that could come with the deal.

I doubt there is any club going for promotion in the Championship making profit.
 
sheffielder said:
To your point, if you're looking at a club in the Championship, anything making a £5m loss would probably be considered a good deal, especially with the infrastructure that could come with the deal.

I doubt there is any club going for promotion in the Championship making profit.
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My figure, although broadbrush, was based upon Wednesday's. I would expect that the stadium is valued on a depreciated replacement cost, so although larger than BDTBL, I'd factored in an increase in build costs in 2 1/2 years. For argument's sake the value of their 2015 squad is the same as our 2018, and i've stuck on £10m for the hotel, and £2m for the other land. In retrospect, the hotel could be £12m and the land £3m. That's a guesstimate. When we de-listed we had a market cap of circa £25m (although subject to fluctuation). Feel free to tear my figures to shreds! :)
 
Sean Thornton said:
Actually many of us have refined and updated our guesstimates after a thread which even with some mild disagreement has remained civil and even at times interesting. Which shows what can happen when the agenda driven don't try to derail things.
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Not disputing that - I've read the whole thing - but just trying to help the people who are here for the news and news alone!
 
Nicolaus_Copernicus said:
My figure, although broadbrush, was based upon Wednesday's. I would expect that the stadium is valued on a depreciated replacement cost, so although larger than BDTBL, I'd factored in an increase in build costs in 2 1/2 years. For argument's sake the value of their 2015 squad is the same as our 2018, and i've stuck on £10m for the hotel, and £2m for the other land. In retrospect, the hotel could be £12m and the land £3m. That's a guesstimate. When we de-listed we had a market cap of circa £25m (although subject to fluctuation). Feel free to tear my figures to shreds! :)
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I doubt a loss making hotel would be an attractive proposition. In any event it's not part of the property portfolio held by SU Limited.
 

Sothall_Blade said:
Surely we are not STILL losing 8-10M a season?
According to the article linked below about Newcastle, every club in the Championship banks at least £6.4M just for being there.
Plus extra TV money based on appearances. We've been on a lot, so maybe another £0.7M.
We're averaging attendances of nearly 27,000 with some big matches still to come (e.g. Leeds, Sunderland, Forest).

Yes, we've rewarded players with new contracts but our wage bill is still stated to be one of the lowest in the division.
If we can't get somewhere close to breaking even this season with income high and wages still relatively low, then surely we never will.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/spo...s/revealed-how-much-newcastle-united-12844008
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Said this before recently. When we went down McCabe said that would cost £10 million a year in lost TV and associated sponsorship. Surely after this period of time there must be over £12 million increase from promotion alone.
Added to the fact many of our games are on TV now.
(Ignoring that to the £8 million bonus transfer add ons this year (and the £5 million sales last year!, (every fucking year!)))
As for outgoings, CW says
"We are way below paying players the average Championship wage, that’s a fact."
and similar regularly.
Have we got the biggest squad? Have we got an U-23 squad that is anything other than U-18's and first year pro's?
Football club outgoings would be less if we were not having to pay rent to use the ground we used to own, let alone all its upkeep.
(And God knows what else?)
 
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