Plan B

[Houston_Blade]

Can we stop comparing ourselves to City and Barcelona please?

The OP has a valid point, however as many have said, rather than a plan b we just need a different option to unlock teams using the system we have. If Duffy plays that could be Brooks. Carruthers has tried but isn’t quite good enough, the attacking midfielder/ playmaker is pivotal and when Duffy has an off day we need another to step up.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

We have this habit of nicely compacting the opposition in their own box, It's almost like rounding up sheep.

When Baldock and Stevens apply pressure in the opposition half of the pitch, the opposition drop deeper. Then Duffy and Fleck join in and apply a bit of pressure around the edge of the box, they link up with the wide men..playing the ball left and right in hope of breaking the opposition down a bit...But it doesn't work because all we are doing is forcing the opposition deep and narrow and before you know it, they have 6 or 7 men in and around their own box.

One of the successes earlier in the season was the variation and sheer unpredictability. With runs coming from left, right or down the middle at any given time...and with defenders joining in to confuse things a bit, suddenly things became confusing for the opposition and players found themselves dragged out of position.

As Super pig says, how do you prevent this? Sit back and allow them to play with the ball in front of you, it may become a little bit compressed and your own chances are limited whilst doing it....but balls it, a point is a point in their eyes.

Quicken the pace of the pass, change the angle of attack, have a few long range shots and dare i say it........be a little more direct. A couple of times in the 1st half last night good balls were put into the space behind their RB to run onto, and nobody did.

 

[andy m]

Eh ?

Blaming the manager for poor finishing or decision making by the players is just fucking stupid!!!

 

[bartman]

Blaming the manager for poor finishing or decision making by the players is just fucking stupid!!!

So what is the manager's job if he sees poor finishing and decision making ?How has the manager dealt with he problem we saw last night and a fee other home games last season ?

 

[andy m]

So what is the manager's job if he sees poor finishing and decision making ?How has the manager dealt with he problem we saw last night and a fee other home games last season ?

He got us promoted with 100 points and we are 6th in the Championship so he has probably dealt with it pretty well.

 

[IMABLADE]

no thought in it .. any manager worth the job title can get 10 professionals to play behind the ball.. sam allardyce has made a career out if it
teams haven’t sussed anything out.. they’re fucking scared of us so they’re parking the bus

Yeah and the good teams beat the Sam Allardyce teams, because they are ablate breakdown the defence which at the moment we can't do. 1 win in 10 shows that

 

[bartman]

He got us promoted with 100 points and we are 6th in the Championship so he has probably dealt with it pretty well.

Is that why we have won one in ten. ? Last season has gone. Wilder needs to find a fix for the current poor run of form and hopefully the new players will help. No matter how well Wilder has done previously he ( and the players)isn't immune from criticism and he will acknowledge this himself.

We are still on a good position but the team and manager need to find a way to start a good run

 

[andy m]

Is that why we have won one in ten. ? Last season has gone. Wilder needs to find a fix for the current poor run of form and hopefully the new players will help. No matter how well Wilder has done previously he ( and the players)isn't immune from criticism and he will acknowledge this himself.

We are still on a good position but the team and manager need to find a way to start a good run

He has already stated that the squad lacked depth hence the new signings. Last night he had very few options to change the way the game was going. We needed someone to come of the bench with a bit of guile or the ability to run at their defence. We didn't have one.

 

[Danny_Blade]

Quicken the pace of the pass, change the angle of attack, have a few long range shots and dare i say it........be a little more direct. A couple of times in the 1st half last night good balls were put into the space behind their RB to run onto, and nobody did.

Exactly what I think, fed up of us trying to walk the ball into the net and just pinging the ball around the outside of the 18 yard box.

 

[robbiez666]

Can we stop comparing ourselves to City and Barcelona please?

The OP has a valid point, however as many have said, rather than a plan b we just need a different option to unlock teams using the system we have. If Duffy plays that could be Brooks. Carruthers has tried but isn’t quite good enough, the attacking midfielder/ playmaker is pivotal and when Duffy has an off day we need another to step up.

It's not that simple. When the opposition puts 2 men on Duffy it stop much of his game. Replace him with Brooks and the same happens. Play both, and no team can afford to spare 4 men.

One thing I did notice was that Leon and Wilson were both coming deep for the ball, either dragging their marker with them or shaking them off. Whilst there was complaining about Leon not being in the box, he shouldn't have to be. There should have been a midfielder running into the space created. There simply wasn't and we were so slow on the ball it allowed them to regroup anyway.

 

[robbiez666]

Very negative view to take considering the 18 months we've experienced. I think in the main, our system has been successful, but that's relied on each and every player doing their job.

Recently, you can forget the opposition in all but a small handful of occasions, but the Plan A has only failed because of our own inability to execute it. Bristol City, prime example, we had so many chances to close that game out way before Fleck's daft tackle, but we didn't do our job.

Last night, Wednesday put in probably the best performance of any side we've encountered this season, they gave nothing away and could've nicked it, unlike Fulham, they kept the back door closed. But we had opportunities to punish them in the first half. Said it before, we need to be clinical.

So have we been found out? Has our Plan A been exposed? Well yes, teams know how we play, a short scouting report or a flick through sky will help them. It doesn't mean that they can then stop us. The results suggest that we've been found out, but our play and stats from now and also the high points of the season aren't that different. 60%+ possession last night, much of which was in their half and final 3rd.

We have to improve how we execute that Plan A. Yes there are times we'll need a Plan B, but lets not chuck the baby out with the bathwater

I agree, to a point, that if we executed plan A better then teams wouldn't necessarily be able to stop us. However, we're up against much better players than last season, and more importantly, much more consistent and reliable ones. We're not forcing mistakes anywhere near as much and not getting 'gifts'. Our only hope last night was for the forward players to pull their markers around and for midfielders to run into the space. We had nothing through the middle though. Duffy and Fleck were mostly on the wings and Ludstram was covering the CB runs so couldn't get forward. We were crying out for those bombing Lampard/Platt run past the strikers.

The possession stats don't mean much. Wednesday let us have the ball in certain areas and we kept it without penetrating much of the time. Even in the final third, we moved it to and fro without really causing them many problems. They kept us out the box and blocked most of our crosses. Only a superb cross from Baldock caused them a lot of trouble. They know we're not even a threat from corners so happily conceded them.

 

[Ricky]

This is worth a try:


Moore

Baldock Basham O'Connell Stevens

Leovanstram Fleck

Brooks Duffy Holmes

Clarke


That would help us attack through the middle more.

 

[Bladezz]

Unbelievable 6th in championship in our first season.

We draw at home 0-0 against big spenders and we need to change the team / formation / style.

GET A GRIP PEOPLE.

It’s these people that will ruin what we have wanting everything NOW. It takes teams years to establish themselves as a championship club.

Look at Bolton 21st Millwall 16th.

 

[Fanny magnet]

We just need an extra dimension ,since we lost Coutts we've gone more direct and predictable the passes are safer and less risks are being taken

Whichever front two we've played have looked innefectice as teams have just man marked them

Holmes Wilson Brooks should give teams who Park The bus summer different to think about

Our set pieces need to improve their abject

 

[Houston_Blade]

It's not that simple. When the opposition puts 2 men on Duffy it stop much of his game. Replace him with Brooks and the same happens. Play both, and no team can afford to spare 4 men.

One thing I did notice was that Leon and Wilson were both coming deep for the ball, either dragging their marker with them or shaking them off. Whilst there was complaining about Leon not being in the box, he shouldn't have to be. There should have been a midfielder running into the space created. There simply wasn't and we were so slow on the ball it allowed them to regroup anyway.

You only need for that not to happen once or twice a game though and the ‘number 10’ makes something happen. I said last night that if Duffy is being doubled up on someone is hiding and hopefully these new players will have the motivation not to hide.

 

[South Bucks]

Think many on here have sussed it, we could have Ronaldo and Bale up front and they still wouldn't get a sniff if we keep this obsession no other team has of always going to the wings and corner flags then overplaying it and coming back or delivering a shit cross under or over hit or to the same place near the goal where the goalie can often grab it. Giving it an early grass cutter pass to the penalty spot or edge of the box for a player running in to hit it first time without needing to control it seems to be outside of our now singular box of tricks.

Having been at the game last night the scariest bit is despite this having gone on for a couple of months now, CW effectively said on radio we should keep playing this way and be a bit more patient before delivering the final killer ball in. Really. Maybe we should give the opposition deck chairs and sarnies while they wait for it to arrive it they haven't nicked it and forced a two on two at our end like most other teams try to do.

Lets not keep doing stuff we know doesn't work, up until two months ago we attacked and got the ball in much quicker with less fannying about.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

Quicken the pace of the pass, change the angle of attack, have a few long range shots and dare i say it........be a little more direct. A couple of times in the 1st half last night good balls were put into the space behind their RB to run onto, and nobody did.

Also mix the tried and tested with the unusual. Dare I say we've possibly become a bit predictable in our unorthodox approach (if that isn't an oxymoron). Sometimes I wonder if we could simplify a bit more. Starting with shooting from distance and working on deadball delivery.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Not sure the formation has to change. But we desperately need variety going forward. We are getting pushed into the same cul de sacs over and over.

Nobody seems to have the balls to run into the penalty area with the ball or get behind the defence. Duffy is by far and away our best man to do that. But unfortunately it seems, if Duff has a bad game........United have a bad game.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Nobody seems to have the balls to run into the penalty area with the ball or get behind the defence. Duffy is by far and away our best man to do that. But unfortunately it seems, if Duff has a bad game........United have a bad game.

Duff isn't getting the chance to work anything in the centre because we can't get a ball into the box from wide if he isn't there helping out. The cb/wb combo need to be able to do it on their own sometime. That's the sort of variety we are lacking

 

[B14Nco]

You change Plan A we’re a different side playing different football. Our strength is we believe we can score playing Plan A.

As with Bolton in the first half we created 2/3 clear cut scoring opportunities where we failed to score (failed to produce the easy ball for a clear goal). They go in and they’re both completely different games. When all teams do is come for the draw and hope to get something on the break that’s what happens.

I’d rather we play like we do and sometimes fail than start lumping it... believe in what we do... it’s our style and identity. You question that the team questions that then we do even have Plan A.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Regarding shots from distance, how many have we conceded this season? We seemed to go through a spell of anything that was hit from outside the box went a-nestling in the top corner. Burton, Fulham, Birmingham, etc. I was half expecting the reach shot to find it's way in last night of an arse or an ankle.

We should give it a go. Luck favours the brave. If we don't buy a ticket we're not going to win the bingo, are we?

 

[Ricky]

It seems to me we have to work really hard just to create any sort of clear long range shooting opportunity. And that's our main problem, more so than willingness to shoot or shooting ability.

We barely had any of these opportunities last night and the ones we got fell to Lundstram's left foot.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

It seems to me we have to work really hard just to create any sort of clear long range shooting opportunity. And that's our main problem, more so than willingness to shoot or shooting ability.

We barely had any of these opportunities last night and the ones we got fell to Lundstram's left foot.

Honest question. Which is his stronger foot? Is he two footed?

 

[SUFC Guy]

Draw at home and win away. Simple as that

 

[Ricky]

Honest question. Which is his stronger foot? Is he two footed?

He's right footed but good with his left. A big reason I fancy him to score a few.

They should all be capable of shooting with their weaker foot within 20-25 yards and if they aren't they should practice it. Fleck should work on his right for example. The best way to work a shot is often by dummying onto your weaker foot.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

He's right footed but good with his left. A big reason I fancy him to score a few.

They should all be capable of shooting with their weaker foot within 20-25 yards and if they aren't they should practice it. Fleck should work on his right for example. The best way to work a shot is often by dummying onto your weaker foot.

Cheers. I thought he was right footed & mate persuaded me he was left (i think the forest goal was his left), but last night his left foot looked like his stronger foot 1st half & his swinger 2nd!

 

[SUFC Guy]

We will immediately see more shots from distance with Holmes and Leonard. Holmes is also a free kick specialist. We need to score from corners - there is the area we need to work on.

Our plan is to score early on in games so that teams will not defend a losing position - they must open up which plays into our hands (mostly)

If we can somehow fit in Leonard, Duffy, Fleck, Holmes and Brooks into a starting 11 then we will be onto a winner imo.

Lets see what the next few weeks brings performance and results wise.

UTMB

 

[Weasel]

Quicker passing of the ball, break with a bit more pace and urgency, work on players mutual understanding for quick one twos with runners from midfield into the box, better delivery from out wide (I'd have the whole team practising how to cross a decent ball into the box), and most importantly, being able to get a shot on target from 25 to 30 yards to at least work the keeper would all ways to help us combat teams who just want to sit in and defend and try to kick one on the break.

Against Wendy despite having 2 thirds of total possession and about 10 corners we managed the grand total of 2 shots on target. Not nearly enough. If you are struggling to break down a team then you need to at least be prepared to have a few pops at goal from range as they can either fly into the top corner, or the keeper spills it and it gives an alert centre forward a chance to mop up.

We are currently suffering from Arsenal syndrome when we have a tendency to want to take 10 touches when 5 would do the same job...only quicker. We need to be smarter with the ball and our use of it in these type of games. Being prepared to have a dig at goal more often though (and hitting the target!) would certainly be helpful.

 

[Champagneblade]

4-2-3-1 seems a very obvious alternative to the 3-4-1-2 we currently employ.

When Brooks is fit and Holmes has signed, a trio of these plus Duffy behind Clarke would seem a good option with Fleck deeper alongside Leonard, Evans or Lundstram.

Plenty of alternative forwards in Sharp, Donaldson, Wilson, Lavery and Evans to back up.

Perhaps harsh on Basham but Steerman and O’Connell could be a good pairing and either set of full backs might benefit from not being such a relied upon outlet.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

1 win in 10 is worrying however you want to dress it up.

Hopefully the new signings will help turn the draws into wins and the defeats into draws.

Wilder is clearly fed up he called out staff and players who kept saying ‘unlucky’ other night. So he himself isn’t happy with our form.