Plan B

[robbiez666]

Teams have sussed us out and how to stop us playing at home. Our response seems to be to just keep going and hope something happens. Bolton, Norwich, Birmingham and now Wednesday. Last night is the most worrying. A second string (no matter how much they cost) and only a few days to practice a new formation under a new manager and they looked comfortable.

If we keep playing this formation, the same thing will keep happening more and more often. It didn't matter last season as most teams made errors or had poorer players than ours.

I'm not saying scrap it, not for one bit, but we need the ability to change our formation (and not just reverting to a back 4 after 60/70 minutes occasionally). We need the ability to surprise our opennets by starting with a different formation. It's all too predictable and all too easy to combat at the moment. We're being 'out-thought' by opposition managers.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Teams have sussed us out and how to stop us playing at home. Our response seems to be to just keep going and hope something happens. Bolton, Norwich, Birmingham and now Wednesday. Last night is the most worrying. A second string (no matter how much they cost) and only a few days to practice a new formation under a new manager and they looked comfortable.

If we keep playing this formation, the same thing will keep happening more and more often. It didn't matter last season as most teams made errors or had poorer players than ours.

I'm not saying scrap it, not for one bit, but we need the ability to change our formation (and not just reverting to a back 4 after 60/70 minutes occasionally). We need the ability to surprise our opennets by starting with a different formation. It's all too predictable and all too easy to combat at the moment. We're being 'out-thought' by opposition managers.

Not sure the formation has to change. But we desperately need variety going forward. We are getting pushed into the same cul de sacs over and over.

 

[SteveBlade]

 

[super_pig]

Teams have sussed us out and how to stop us playing at home. Our response seems to be to just keep going and hope something happens. Bolton, Norwich, Birmingham and now Wednesday. Last night is the most worrying. A second string (no matter how much they cost) and only a few days to practice a new formation under a new manager and they looked comfortable.

If we keep playing this formation, the same thing will keep happening more and more often. It didn't matter last season as most teams made errors or had poorer players than ours.

I'm not saying scrap it, not for one bit, but we need the ability to change our formation (and not just reverting to a back 4 after 60/70 minutes occasionally). We need the ability to surprise our opennets by starting with a different formation. It's all too predictable and all too easy to combat at the moment. We're being 'out-thought' by opposition managers.

no thought in it .. any manager worth the job title can get 10 professionals to play behind the ball.. sam allardyce has made a career out if it
teams haven’t sussed anything out.. they’re fucking scared of us so they’re parking the bus

 

[bartman]

Teams have sussed us out and how to stop us playing at home. Our response seems to be to just keep going and hope something happens. Bolton, Norwich, Birmingham and now Wednesday. Last night is the most worrying. A second string (no matter how much they cost) and only a few days to practice a new formation under a new manager and they looked comfortable.

If we keep playing this formation, the same thing will keep happening more and more often. It didn't matter last season as most teams made errors or had poorer players than ours.

I'm not saying scrap it, not for one bit, but we need the ability to change our formation (and not just reverting to a back 4 after 60/70 minutes occasionally). We need the ability to surprise our opennets by starting with a different formation. It's all too predictable and all too easy to combat at the moment. We're being 'out-thought' by opposition managers.

Last night highlighted this. The substitution ( and lack of) was strange .After Nuthiu was brought on they were not going to get behind us but we didn't change shape or how we wwre playing.We didn't get ball into feet up against their defence as Clarke and Donaldson were awful as was Lundstram which made the non introduction of Sharp and Leonard bizarre

 

[bartman]

no thought in it .. any manager worth the job title can get 10 professionals to play behind the ball.. sam allardyce has made a career out if it
teams haven’t sussed anything out.. they’re fucking scared of us so they’re parking the bus

And many managers facing this would have worked out a solution to deal with it

 

[super_pig]

And many managers facing this would have worked out a solution to deal with it

.. even citeh and barca struggle sometimes when teams do this

 

[blade too long]

Teams have sussed us out and how to stop us playing at home. Our response seems to be to just keep going and hope something happens. Bolton, Norwich, Birmingham and now Wednesday. Last night is the most worrying. A second string (no matter how much they cost) and only a few days to practice a new formation under a new manager and they looked comfortable.

If we keep playing this formation, the same thing will keep happening more and more often. It didn't matter last season as most teams made errors or had poorer players than ours.

I'm not saying scrap it, not for one bit, but we need the ability to change our formation (and not just reverting to a back 4 after 60/70 minutes occasionally). We need the ability to surprise our opennets by starting with a different formation. It's all too predictable and all too easy to combat at the moment. We're being 'out-thought' by opposition managers.

which is why we are buying new players
as above said look how citeh struggled against wolves and bristol city
we are missing brooks offering alternative options

 

[YES Blade]

.. even citeh and barca struggle sometimes when teams do this

But they have the quality to eventually break them down and get the win.

That’s the difference, at League One level we had the quality but at Championship level we don’t have it to break them down every match. But hopefully the new signings will give us that.

 

[super_pig]

But they have the quality to eventually break them down and get the win.

That’s the difference, at League One level we had the quality but at Championship level we don’t have it to break them down every match. But hopefully the new signings will give us that.

they do .. cost them a few bob fwir!

 

[super_pig]

But they have the quality to eventually break them down and get the win.

That’s the difference, at League One level we had the quality but at Championship level we don’t have it to break them down every match. But hopefully the new signings will give us that.

this

 

[robbiez666]

Citeh is probably the best example to try and copy. They flood the midfield and get players running past the loan striker whilst pushing wingbacks/fullbacks on.

We were actually trying one-twos around the box in the same vein as them last night, but just too slow and obvious (and we don't have their quality, obviously)

The other way is to play 4-3-3 and have 3 attacking players. We've not really got the personnel to do this but would counter bus parking by getting into the gaps behind wingbacks.

Or a magic new formation. He's basically invented one already. Hopefully he can come up with another.

 

[Tommoblade66]

Have to utilise central midfield more

 

[SB_90]

I'll admit i thought our days of attack v defence were over after League 1 promotion. But it Seems it was 2 months off. But like man city maybe its a training ground thing to learn to break the bus with a 6 v 3 training exercise. I know its tough the best teams in the world struggle to break down 10 men & Bristol city shown that when a team comes for the 3pts we can create plenty of chances

But at times i thought it verging into david weir territory alot of passing around the box. Without wanting to go in it & when we did the final wasnt good enough

 

[Ricky]

Holmes is a good plan B. A different option. It's a shame we couldn't have signed him before Lee Evans.

 

[robbiez666]

Holmes is a good plan B. A different option. It's a shame we couldn't have signed him before Lee Evans.

Agreed, but I think he's a player who needs a bit of time to settle and adapt to the way we play. He also looks like a player who struggles when pressed.

Both him and Brooks will give us a couple of option which we're missing.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

We play far too many unecessary passes. The touchline overlap is becoming a bit too predictable and usually ends up down a “cul de sac” near the corner flag. We simply don’t run channels enough and our attempts on goal don’t really reflect our huge chunks of possession. We certainly have players to do this

 

[SwissBlade]

Teams have sussed us out and how to stop us playing at home. Our response seems to be to just keep going and hope something happens. Bolton, Norwich, Birmingham and now Wednesday. Last night is the most worrying. A second string (no matter how much they cost) and only a few days to practice a new formation under a new manager and they looked comfortable.

If we keep playing this formation, the same thing will keep happening more and more often. It didn't matter last season as most teams made errors or had poorer players than ours.

I'm not saying scrap it, not for one bit, but we need the ability to change our formation (and not just reverting to a back 4 after 60/70 minutes occasionally). We need the ability to surprise our opennets by starting with a different formation. It's all too predictable and all too easy to combat at the moment. We're being 'out-thought' by opposition managers.

I'd question the execution of Plan A more than look for plan B

 

[robbiez666]

I'd question the execution of Plan A more than look for plan B

True, but Plan A becomes a lot harder when the opposition know exactly how you're going to play.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Teams have sussed us out and how to stop us playing at home. Our response seems to be to just keep going and hope something happens. Bolton, Norwich, Birmingham and now Wednesday. Last night is the most worrying. A second string (no matter how much they cost) and only a few days to practice a new formation under a new manager and they looked comfortable.

If we keep playing this formation, the same thing will keep happening more and more often. It didn't matter last season as most teams made errors or had poorer players than ours.

I'm not saying scrap it, not for one bit, but we need the ability to change our formation (and not just reverting to a back 4 after 60/70 minutes occasionally). We need the ability to surprise our opennets by starting with a different formation. It's all too predictable and all too easy to combat at the moment. We're being 'out-thought' by opposition managers.

Agree whole heartedly with this - the theme has been apparent for a while now.

Lack of quality in the final third and we are now reverting to too much sideways as against looking forward.

Sideways is the easy way out - wonder what the 2nd half of the season has in store for Evans (L) and Leonard?

UTB

 

[BushBlade]

But they have the quality to eventually break them down and get the win.

That’s the difference, at League One level we had the quality but at Championship level we don’t have it to break them down every match. But hopefully the new signings will give us that.

Agree. We don't play any worse than we did last season but we're against better opposition, who can set up to stop us, with players that make few errors. In L1 when we retained possession and dominated midfield, at some point one of the opposition players wouldn't do their job properly and something would open up for us, that doesn't happen much at championship level.

It was exaggerated yesterday because neither side wanted to lose. The pigs didn't really go for it (and I don't blame them, a new manager doesn't want to lose his first game) and Wilder was more cautious than usual, possibly because our recent attempts at 'going for it' have led to defeats.

 

[SwissBlade]

True, but Plan A becomes a lot harder when the opposition know exactly how you're going to play.

Very negative view to take considering the 18 months we've experienced. I think in the main, our system has been successful, but that's relied on each and every player doing their job.

Recently, you can forget the opposition in all but a small handful of occasions, but the Plan A has only failed because of our own inability to execute it. Bristol City, prime example, we had so many chances to close that game out way before Fleck's daft tackle, but we didn't do our job.

Last night, Wednesday put in probably the best performance of any side we've encountered this season, they gave nothing away and could've nicked it, unlike Fulham, they kept the back door closed. But we had opportunities to punish them in the first half. Said it before, we need to be clinical.

So have we been found out? Has our Plan A been exposed? Well yes, teams know how we play, a short scouting report or a flick through sky will help them. It doesn't mean that they can then stop us. The results suggest that we've been found out, but our play and stats from now and also the high points of the season aren't that different. 60%+ possession last night, much of which was in their half and final 3rd.

We have to improve how we execute that Plan A. Yes there are times we'll need a Plan B, but lets not chuck the baby out with the bathwater

 

[Agreasychipbutty]

no thought in it .. any manager worth the job title can get 10 professionals to play behind the ball.. sam allardyce has made a career out if it
teams haven’t sussed anything out.. they’re fucking scared of us so they’re parking the bus

Agreed, anyone can park the bus and play 10 defenders, but we do need to work out a better method of getting round it. Endlessly passing the ball round the box from wing to mid to wing just gives them more chance to intercept and counter. I think Leonard and Brookes are our solution for this. Leonard will shoot from 20 yards+, only the keeper is gonna be stopping that, and Brookes will just rip them a new one and play straight through them and probably win a free kick as they panic, much like how Donaldson got piggy captain sent off.

 

[bladesman3]

Teams have sussed us out and how to stop us playing at home. Our response seems to be to just keep going and hope something happens. Bolton, Norwich, Birmingham and now Wednesday. Last night is the most worrying. A second string (no matter how much they cost) and only a few days to practice a new formation under a new manager and they looked comfortable.

If we keep playing this formation, the same thing will keep happening more and more often. It didn't matter last season as most teams made errors or had poorer players than ours.

I'm not saying scrap it, not for one bit, but we need the ability to change our formation (and not just reverting to a back 4 after 60/70 minutes occasionally). We need the ability to surprise our opennets by starting with a different formation. It's all too predictable and all too easy to combat at the moment. We're being 'out-thought' by opposition managers.

You are totally spot on! Didn’t help that Duffy’s Delivery was off last night....we need some pace in the middle and players to beat players...Fleck did it once and caused havoc...

 

[oldblade]

Very negative view to take considering the 18 months we've experienced. I think in the main, our system has been successful, but that's relied on each and every player doing their job.

Recently, you can forget the opposition in all but a small handful of occasions, but the Plan A has only failed because of our own inability to execute it. Bristol City, prime example, we had so many chances to close that game out way before Fleck's daft tackle, but we didn't do our job.

Last night, Wednesday put in probably the best performance of any side we've encountered this season, they gave nothing away and could've nicked it, unlike Fulham, they kept the back door closed. But we had opportunities to punish them in the first half. Said it before, we need to be clinical.

So have we been found out? Has our Plan A been exposed? Well yes, teams know how we play, a short scouting report or a flick through sky will help them. It doesn't mean that they can then stop us. The results suggest that we've been found out, but our play and stats from now and also the high points of the season aren't that different. 60%+ possession last night, much of which was in their half and final 3rd.

We have to improve how we execute that Plan A. Yes there are times we'll need a Plan B, but lets not chuck the baby out with the bathwater

If we improved our crossing (and linked to that, our corners) I think we might see an improvement in the execution of Plan A.

 

[SwissBlade]

If we improved our crossing (and linked to that, our corners) I think we might see an improvement in the execution of Plan A.

Yeah and haven't the three signings this week (plus Holmes) been brought in to improve Plan A?

 

[andy m]

And many managers facing this would have worked out a solution to deal with it

Can't believe Wilder let Clarke miss that free header from 7 yards and told Stevens to flick the ball away from Wilson who would have had a sitter. Bet it was also his fault that Stevens played that Montyesque ball to nobody when completely free in the middle of the penalty area.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

I think the formation and use of the centre backs is effective mostly. I just think we need more attacking options in the toolbox. We're attacking wide (and favouring the left-hand side) too often. A boxer with a world-class haymaker doesn't stop using it when it becomes harder to land, they vary their game plan making it much more effective. We seem to have forgotten how to attack centrally.

 

[PeakyBlader]

no thought in it .. any manager worth the job title can get 10 professionals to play behind the ball.. sam allardyce has made a career out if it
teams haven’t sussed anything out.. they’re fucking scared of us so they’re parking the bus

We have this habit of nicely compacting the opposition in their own box, It's almost like rounding up sheep.

When Baldock and Stevens apply pressure in the opposition half of the pitch, the opposition drop deeper. Then Duffy and Fleck join in and apply a bit of pressure around the edge of the box, they link up with the wide men..playing the ball left and right in hope of breaking the opposition down a bit...But it doesn't work because all we are doing is forcing the opposition deep and narrow and before you know it, they have 6 or 7 men in and around their own box.

One of the successes earlier in the season was the variation and sheer unpredictability. With runs coming from left, right or down the middle at any given time...and with defenders joining in to confuse things a bit, suddenly things became confusing for the opposition and players found themselves dragged out of position.

As Super pig says, how do you prevent this? Sit back and allow them to play with the ball in front of you, it may become a little bit compressed and your own chances are limited whilst doing it....but balls it, a point is a point in their eyes.

 

[bartman]

Can't believe Wilder let Clarke miss that free header from 7 yards and told Stevens to flick the ball away from Wilson who would have had a sitter. Bet it was also his fault that Stevens played that Montyesque ball to nobody when completely free in the middle of the penalty area.

Eh ?