My Concerns about Blackman

[blademark]

I always reserve judgement on a goalkeeper until I assess the defence he's working with.

And we don't have one.

Not sure if serious, but before Coutts and Baldock injuries, we had the 2nd tightest defence in the league.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Not sure if serious, but before Coutts and Baldock injuries, we had the 2nd tightest defence in the league.

Had.

 

[ekke287]

Of course, no one is immune from criticism, which is why I mentioned Wilder. I just feel the Blackman criticism is a bit OTT.

They have been far worse performers than him in the last three games.

I take your points on board, and could've probably explained myself better in creating this thread. As you've mentioned there are issues all over the field and areas of improvement for all. I just feel that Blackman's handling of the situations he's found himself in could've been handled better and therefore raised my concerns / areas for improvement.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

On the one hand, you do wish JB was contributing "game-changing" saves here and there. I mean, since the Brentford game, he's not really contributed in that way, not made the sort of save de Gea made on Saturday to draw attention to himself and his contribution.

But on the other hand, is he making noticeable mistakes? I'd say not, even the QPR incident. And goalies throughout the division (some of them very good ones) are making howlers - just see the recent Sunderland-Millwall highlights as an example.

So, I'd say he's not really standing out in terms of excellence (& you wish he would - say, if he had have saved Boga's shot, which was within the realms of the saveable, he'd be thought of very differently now). Reckon he needs a game with a big contribution - an "impossible" save or two which shows us all how good he is.

But I don't think he's done anything meriting him getting dropped, personally.

 

[BushBlade]

I take your points on board, and could've probably explained myself better in creating this thread. As you've mentioned there are issues all over the field and areas of improvement for all. I just feel that Blackman's handling of the situations he's found himself in could've been handled better and therefore raised my concerns / areas for improvement.

So why not just comment on the numerous threads about Blackman already on here? Why the need to start another thread?

 

[nowtfancy]

Having watched Moore all last season and Blackman this, Blackman is in front for me, but I'm happy to have Moore pressing him.

Two things that bother me :
- "play Moore cause he's ours". Absolute bollocks

- "Moore is a better communicator" - because he was heard shouting last year. There's nothing worse than a keeper shouting bollocks all the time. Not saying he was shouting bollocks, but because someone has heard him shout does not make him a "good communicator"

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Yes Coutts got injured. What's you point? Are we not able to debate the merits, positives and weaknesses of our keepers because of that ? Coutts injury was a blow but not a season ender for the side.

Maybe the last few games have seen Utds defence / keeper come under more pressure than previously and therefore any mistakes or rough edges are now being highlighted.

Utd need to start being solid again and not going gung ho chasing games. That will help the keepers.

Right now it is looking like a season ender for the side.
There's time for Wilder to sort things out but the rash of threads about this player or that player now apparently not being up to scratch would never have happened without the team losing its quarterback.
Going forward and in use of possession we were simply too good for most sides, now we're currently not.
And that is all about losing Coutts.

 

[mosbolad]

Can we recall George Long?

Just about Gray, blonde lad quite tall. No good for us though, Conference at best.

Made a decent save in the cup yesterday at 55 seconds on the video.

A couple of goals by Lyle Taylor as well, remember him?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42214466

 

[super_pig]

jamal hasn’t made enough mistakes and simon hasn’t done enough to reclaim the shirt yet it’s that simple

 

[Kelso]

Blackman all day for me......

 

[Sean Thornton]

Blackman on crosses puts him ahead of Moore for me, can't underestimate how many chances that nips in the bud. Everyone says that Moore is a better communicator but I certainly didn't see any evidence of that in the games he's played this season. Numerous miscommunications, going for balls his defenders were clearing etc.

Blackman isn't perfect and definitely needs to improve some aspects, his awareness of his own body and where bits of it are could be better, sometimes goes for things with the wrong hand, or feet when he should go hands, I'd still blame our defence for the majority of the goals we've let in recently though.

In the long run I think if we're going to be really successful we'll need someone else entirely though.

Last season we averaged just over 1 goal conceded per match and we're on for about the same this season so far. In a higher division that's not bad, but could still be less.

Think your first sentence explains the main difference between them. Odd that some claim he never leaves his line though !

 

[sitwell]

Moore seems to be getting better with every game he doesn’t play.
He was at fault for the goal against Hull and seemed very unsure nearly costing us another. If that’s him doing ok I’d hate to see a bad game.

Blackman is the better of the 2. He needs a settled defence back infront of him.

Is Moore another one on your list then ?
I would keep Blackman in goal as it happens but don't feel the need to sarcastically slag off another Utd player ,CCV ,Stearman and now Moore added to Evans and Hanson ,the list is getting pretty long for a team in the play-off positions ,but I feel you have plenty more to add yet.

 

[ekke287]

So why not just comment on the numerous threads about Blackman already on here? Why the need to start another thread?

Isn't the point of a forum to open up debate regarding your feelings on a matter? I thought my original post was detailed enough to warrant it's own thread and as an advocate of open discussion I bit the bullet.

As it happens there's been some lively debate from both sides of the coin regarding our current number 1, so I don't feel this thread has fallen into the "Another spam post because we're currently struggling" category.

 

[BushBlade]

Isn't the point of a forum to open up debate regarding your feelings on a matter? I thought my original post was detailed enough to warrant it's own thread and as an advocate of open discussion I bit the bullet.

As it happens there's been some lively debate from both sides of the coin regarding our current number 1, so I don't feel this thread has fallen into the "Another spam post because we're currently struggling" category.

Yeah, I realise that but I don't really see anything on this thread that hadn't already been discussed last week. IMO it's been done to death but it seems there are plenty of people who want to repeat themselves so I guess I'm wrong.

 

[Tommoblade66]

Well as a keeper he's 24, which is still quite young. He's been loaned out to various clubs since 2012 and I can't see him getting in the 1st Chelsea team anytime soon. Whilst it could possibly help Chelsea in the long run, it's not doing us much good at present - did Middlebrough bid for him? I think it's one of those where he's just serving time.

 

[Weasel]

Right now it is looking like a season ender for the side.
There's time for Wilder to sort things out but the rash of threads about this player or that player now apparently not being up to scratch would never have happened without the team losing its quarterback.
Going forward and in use of possession we were simply too good for most sides, now we're currently not.
And that is all about losing Coutts.

Yes, we lost Coutts and we are worse of for that. No is disputing that.

You mention that people are now bringing up the topic of other players in the side and that that wouldn't have happened if we hadn't have lost Coutts. Maybe thats true. But the fact is we have lost him for the season and we have had the recent results we have had and we are discussing the merits of some of our other players.

The thread was about Blackman. Not sure why this is Coutts related in any shape or form, unless he also happened to play in the goalkeeper position for us.

I know that during the course of the season I have also discussed the merits of both Utd's keepers (and a whole raft of other Utd related topics such as do we need another winger, who's our best centre half 3, who's our best forward partnership) before Coutts got injured. It's not like we all sit here totally content with the world and talking about the cricket, the weather or which brand of coffee shop we prefer and then only start talking about Utd's other players just because one of em has got an injury.

One thing I do disagree with you about. Coutts injury is not a season ending event for Utd. Results may not be as good, we may lose a few.more games, but Utd are not and never have been a one man team. Utd are about the team being more tha the sum of its parts and CW will make whatever adjustment I'd necessary to get us up and running again. Losing Coutts is a blow - no doubt about it as he's a quality player, but we will go on and thrive again even without him. I think we still have a very exciting season ahead of us.

 

[freddyp]

Can't remember the last time a goalkeeper won us a match with a string of miraculous saves aka Kelly, Tracey, Rees, Kenny, Hodgy..... Been weak in this area for too long.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Yes, we lost Coutts and we are worse of for that. No is disputing that.

You mention that people are now bringing up the topic of other players in the side and that that wouldn't have happened if we hadn't have lost Coutts. Maybe thats true. But the fact is we have lost him for the season and we have had the recent results we have had and we are discussing the merits of some of our other players.

The thread was about Blackman. Not sure why this is Coutts related in any shape or form, unless he also happened to play in the goalkeeper position for us.

I know that during the course of the season I have also discussed the merits of both Utd's keepers (and a whole raft of other Utd related topics such as do we need another winger, who's our best centre half 3, who's our best forward partnership) before Coutts got injured. It's not like we all sit here totally content with the world and talking about the cricket, the weather or which brand of coffee shop we prefer and then only start talking about Utd's other players just because one of em has got an injury.

One thing I do disagree with you about. Coutts injury is not a season ending event for Utd. Results may not be as good, we may lose a few.more games, but Utd are not and never have been a one man team. Utd are about the team being more tha the sum of its parts and CW will make whatever adjustment I'd necessary to get us up and running again. Losing Coutts is a blow - no doubt about it as he's a quality player, but we will go on and thrive again even without him. I think we still have a very exciting season ahead of us.

But all those players were plenty good enough until three games ago.
It's a similarish situation with Pogba being injured at Man U or even if De Bruyne got injured at Man City.
Coutts was absolutely fundamental to the way we play and a player who inspired confidence across the team.
Judging players now, in his absence, is comparing apples and oranges.

 

[SteveBlade]

It's a weird one. Half of me thinks that if we had Moore in net, we might have come away from the Fulham game having conceded possibly two less, and the second against Millwall was a bit iffy.

The defence has been shaky, but the shots on target against to goals conceded ratio is very off-putting.

Maybe we'd have got a point against Fulham. Maybe Moore would have saved the second against Millwall and we'd have come away with a point or a win. Who fucking knows?

I don't want to commit to 'Blackmans shot stopping is a bit naff' as an opinion, because he's had some very good games for us, but it's in my mind.

 

[Willie Carlin]

As I've prefixed "MY" to this thread title I'm hoping for an honest discussion about our number 1. This isn't a dig at him and I'm not saying he should be dropped / given back etc, just some observations about him that are a little concerning.

Please refer to this points should anything be unclear:

1 - I think he's done a great job for us so far
2 - He's still learning his trade and needs time to develop the necessary experience

Now, for me, there have been a few examples in the past three matches where I've felt his efforts could've been better.

At home to Fulham, there were two shots at him where his attempts to stop it where relatively weak. The Birmingham goal was there only shot, and although he had a hand to it he should've been readier considering the distance it came from. Millwall's first and especially the second seemed also to have been relatively weak shots. The second he was going the wrong way granted, but to me, it made their shots look more powerful. When broken down however, it's relatively clear that more could've been done especially as there seemed to be more time for him to position himself in preparation.

I know hindsight and replays of the situations go far in our post-match analysis, but our 11 players have to react in real time, no more so the the keeper. For me, Blackman often works in reverse to most keepers in he'll wait to see what happens before reacting. By which point recently it's been too late.

Further analysis of the shots he's stopped in the past three (of note here are the tip away from Fulham and the stop at Millwall) show that these balls have been played into a good position for him to react (towards his area and arm / hand space), meaning his slower reaction time isn't as required due to the proximity of the threat.

Now with all this in mind, I understand he's learning and he's young. He is also not completely at fault for all our goals conceded, but I do feel nervous at times when shots go in to him. It's not a great position to be in, but at times I feel like there's almost an open goal and wonder if he may need more time on the training field to hone his stopping and communication.

With Bristol coming this weekend who are doing well away we need a commanding presence to stand up and take control of our defence because Bristol WILL shoot at us, much like Fulham did. To me, it's an issue that needs addressing as we can't just expect to score more goals and accept that we'll leak at the back.

He may need a rest, he may not, it's not for me to decide obviously. These are just my observations of his current form.

Do you agree? Disagree? Discuss!

Moore is my choice. Did little wrong last season would be first choice had it not been for his injury.

 

[Lane Ender]

Can't remember the last time a goalkeeper won us a match with a string of miraculous saves aka Kelly, Tracey, Rees, Kenny, Hodgy..... Been weak in this area for too long.

Don’t worry we’ve got one in the U23s who will be world class

 

[Weasel]

But all those players were plenty good enough until three games ago.
It's a similarish situation with Pogba being injured at Man U or even if De Bruyne got injured at Man City.
Coutts was absolutely fundamental to the way we play and a player who inspired confidence across the team.
Judging players now, in his absence, is comparing apples and oranges.

I think from your last post that you implying (and I could be wrong here) that we've only started talking about Utds other players since Coutts got injured? If so, your incorrect. I think there are many threads / posts on here already this season where people have discussed the merits of all Utd's players - in fact there have been a few threads previously about Blackman and Moore already this season and who is the better keeper. This was done before Coutts got injured. It just so happens that we are discussing the topic again.

Anyway for those of us who aren't cutting our wrists about Coutts injury shall we get back to point of discussion initially raised in this thread namely Uniteds GOALKEEPERS (and not injured midfielders).

 

[Weasel]

It's a weird one. Half of me thinks that if we had Moore in net, we might have come away from the Fulham game having conceded possibly two less, and the second against Millwall was a bit iffy.

The defence has been shaky, but the shots on target against to goals conceded ratio is very off-putting.

Maybe we'd have got a point against Fulham. Maybe Moore would have saved the second against Millwall and we'd have come away with a point or a win. Who fucking knows?

I don't want to commit to 'Blackmans shot stopping is a bit naff' as an opinion, because he's had some very good games for us, but it's in my mind.

Pretty much where I am with the Blackman or Moore debate. Still think it's Blackmans shirt to lose but neither would I be against Moore being brought back in for a run.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

I think from your last post that you implying (and I could be wrong here) that we've only started talking about Utds other players since Coutts got injured? If so, your incorrect. I think there are many threads / posts on here already this season where people have discussed the merits of all Utd's players - in fact there have been a few threads previously about Blackman and Moore already this season and who is the better keeper. This was done before Coutts got injured. It just so happens that we are discussing the topic again.

Anyway for those of us who aren't cutting our wrists about Coutts injury shall we get back to point of discussion initially raised in this thread namely Uniteds GOALKEEPERS (and not injured midfielders).

The OP directly mentioned the last three games.

 

[Weasel]

The OP directly mentioned the last three games.

Yes and what of it?

Reading most posts in this thread which have been made since, virtually everyone has talked about the keepers performance over the course of the season and even last season too (Moore). If we were just taking into consideration the last three games only then someone has to make a few almighty fuk ups to get dropped which no one has done. I think the initial poster was just highlighting a few recent incidents which probably back up his perceptions gleaned from a number of games which have gone before.

 

[Slim Man]

Is Moore another one on your list then ?
I would keep Blackman in goal as it happens but don't feel the need to sarcastically slag off another Utd player ,CCV ,Stearman and now Moore added to Evans and Hanson ,the list is getting pretty long for a team in the play-off positions ,but I feel you have plenty more to add yet.

Oh god, you really are quite boring.

Blackman is better than Moore. It’s really that simple. The others have no relevance, like much of what you say.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

This might be a simplistic point of view. But with very little between the keepers, I'm great believer in a meritocracy and felt CW should have kept SM in the team until he suffered severe loss of form or was injured. To choose JB again as soon as he was fit, didn't send a very encouraging message to SM.

 

[SteveBlade]

Oh god, you really are quite boring.

Blackman is better than Moore. It’s really that simple. The others have no relevance, like much of what you say.

How so? I don't think there's much between them at all, but I'm marginally leaning towards camp Moore.

 

[Yarrayering]

As I've prefixed "MY" to this thread title I'm hoping for an honest discussion about our number 1. This isn't a dig at him and I'm not saying he should be dropped / given back etc, just some observations about him that are a little concerning.

Please refer to this points should anything be unclear:

1 - I think he's done a great job for us so far
2 - He's still learning his trade and needs time to develop the necessary experience

Now, for me, there have been a few examples in the past three matches where I've felt his efforts could've been better.

At home to Fulham, there were two shots at him where his attempts to stop it where relatively weak. The Birmingham goal was there only shot, and although he had a hand to it he should've been readier considering the distance it came from. Millwall's first and especially the second seemed also to have been relatively weak shots. The second he was going the wrong way granted, but to me, it made their shots look more powerful. When broken down however, it's relatively clear that more could've been done especially as there seemed to be more time for him to position himself in preparation.

I know hindsight and replays of the situations go far in our post-match analysis, but our 11 players have to react in real time, no more so the the keeper. For me, Blackman often works in reverse to most keepers in he'll wait to see what happens before reacting. By which point recently it's been too late.

Further analysis of the shots he's stopped in the past three (of note here are the tip away from Fulham and the stop at Millwall) show that these balls have been played into a good position for him to react (towards his area and arm / hand space), meaning his slower reaction time isn't as required due to the proximity of the threat.

Now with all this in mind, I understand he's learning and he's young. He is also not completely at fault for all our goals conceded, but I do feel nervous at times when shots go in to him. It's not a great position to be in, but at times I feel like there's almost an open goal and wonder if he may need more time on the training field to hone his stopping and communication.

With Bristol coming this weekend who are doing well away we need a commanding presence to stand up and take control of our defence because Bristol WILL shoot at us, much like Fulham did. To me, it's an issue that needs addressing as we can't just expect to score more goals and accept that we'll leak at the back.

He may need a rest, he may not, it's not for me to decide obviously. These are just my observations of his current form.

Do you agree? Disagree? Discuss!

Im not 2 sure how good either keeper is tbh ive always thought anything hit in the corners goes in and Blackman has a recent habit of not reading the shot n falling the opposite way. Can we have Alan Kelly back. COYRAWW

 

[Slim Man]

How so? I don't think there's much between them at all, but I'm marginally leaning towards camp Moore.

He’s better IMO. Moore ended up in league one for a reason if you ask me, as good as he was for us last year