Premiership Manager Roundabout

[Slim Man]

Claude Puel (who?) to Leicester after being sacked by Southampton at the end of last year, Hodgson picking up the Palace job. Everton job up for grabs for David Unsworth but Thomas Tuchel and Carlo Ancelotti linked. Then there's still Pardew, Moyes, Allardyce, Pellegrini all to house, they'll find a job before long no doubt.

Same old faces, same old jobs. And we wonder why English managers are sparse at the top level and why we've had to opt for Gareth f**king Southgate as the manager of the mens national team, 5 years after being sacked by Championship Middlesbrough.

That's why I'm convinced we'll be fine in terms of keeping CW & AK here. The only teams I think would opt for Wilder are the more modest PL clubs, Burnley and Bournemouth. And would they really be able to tempt Chris away from what he's building here? I highly doubt it.

What we're building here is special, and the jobs for the boys cycle in the countries top division is what's going to help us keep it together. Long live the king.

 

[Houso]

Looks like Dyche will be going to Everton.

Like you, I don't currently fear Chris going to any of the clubs likely to approach him tbqf.

 

[DifferentClass]

Wilder is the best English manager in decades. And if Prem clubs keep passing him over in favour of mediocre exotic names I’ll be appeh.

 

[Ricky]

Any managerless PL club not busting a gut to get Wilder is stupid. Long may stupidity prevail.

It would take a hell of a lot for him to consider leaving anyway. I know if I was him there's no way on earth I'd be moving anywhere.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

My fear is due to their extended stay in the PL, if Burnley and/or Bournemouth lose their managers they can offer Wilder life changing money.

They've shown they trust English managers and both clubs are 'proper' clubs to quote the great man.

If we don't make it up this year, and either of them come in with £3m+ a year over 4 years, then who knows...

And I wouldn't begrudge him...

 

[8lade]

Wilder is the best English manager in decades

Eddie Howe: 3 promotions, including 1 as champions (Championship) all with the mighty Bournemouth who are now enjoying their third year in the top flight. Managing 9 years.
Sean Dyche: 2 promotions both to the Premiership 1 as champions in a 6 year career.

I'd say Wilder is currently third and they are both good managers ahead of him so catching up would be no simple task.

 

[Lard_Lad]

Eddie Howe: 3 promotions, including 1 as champions (Championship) all with the mighty Bournemouth who are now enjoying their third year in the top flight. Managing 9 years.
Sean Dyche: 2 promotions both to the Premiership 1 as champions in a 6 year career.

I'd say Wilder is currently third and they are both good managers ahead of him so catching up would be no simple task.

Eddie Howe spent millions way before the Championship clubs did, he even spent a shit ton in League 1. Everyone loves the fairytale of Bournemouth but always forget to mention the billionaire thats backing them.

Dyche on the other hand is a quality manager and for me the best English manager. He's achieved exceptional things on a very small budget, they play smart football, not always the most attractive but gets results and are doing very well.

 

[8lade]

Eddie Howe spent millions way before the Championship clubs did

Okay wasn't sure about this but he got Bournemouth into the Championship before anything approaching a million quid was spent. He bought 2 players in the Championship one at 2.5m and one at 8m and was then promoted to the Prem at which point the real spending started (as you'd expect). You still have to be a decent manager even when spending cash, don't forget we spent 2,3 & 4m on Henderson, Evans and Beattie for no real return.
* Figures sourced from Soccerbase

 

[sitwell]

Okay wasn't sure about this but he got Bournemouth into the Championship before anything approaching a million quid was spent. He bought 2 players in the Championship one at 2.5m and one at 8m and was then promoted to the Prem at which point the real spending started (as you'd expect). You still have to be a decent manager even when spending cash, don't forget we spent 2,3 & 4m on Henderson, Evans and Beattie for no real return.
* Figures sourced from Soccerbase

Eddie Howe was rubbish at Burnley ,Sean Dyche wasn't/isn't.

 

[ucandomagic]

My fear is due to their extended stay in the PL, if Burnley and/or Bournemouth lose their managers they can offer Wilder life changing money.

Removing his heart would certainly be life-changing, and that’s what leaving would do!

Tufty will never leave us as long as we don’t leave him.

The Magic is Here to Stay

 

[Smirth]

English managers are sparse at the top level as they simply aren’t good enough.

3 of the PL bottom 4 are managed by a British manager and the 4th has a British care taker who looks clueless as well.

There are a number of things which would put teams off going for Wilder, luckily for us. One of the main ones being doubts over whether he could manage big egos and multi nationality squads. I’m not saying he can’t, but his lack of experience would make some teams hesitant.

 

[Slim Man]

English managers are sparse at the top level as they simply aren’t good enough.

3 of the PL bottom 4 are managed by a British manager and the 4th has a British care taker who looks clueless as well.

There are a number of things which would put teams off going for Wilder, luckily for us. One of the main ones being doubts over whether he could manage big egos and multi nationality squads. I’m not saying he can’t, but his lack of experience would make some teams hesitant.

They can’t be any good, they don’t get a chance to be!

Gary Rowett should’ve been considered for a Prem job by now for example, Dyche and Howe also deserve a bigger job.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

They can’t be any good, they don’t get a chance to be!

Gary Rowett should’ve been considered for a Prem job by now for example, Dyche and Howe also deserve a bigger job.

Rubbish.

Foreign managers are leading the way.

Look at Claud Puel - revolutionised Southampton
Jurgen Klopp - has taken Liverpool to the next level following British failure Rogers
Louis Van Gaal and Mourinho took Man U way beyond Moyes and at a fraction of the spend.
Allardyce told he wasn't wanted when top six of the Perm - Slaven Bilic has again taken them to the next level.

Of course, I'm being sarcastic.

Stick 'world class' despite managing cheque book clubs that were already the best clubs in the world before taking over in the Burnley or Bournemouth roles and see how they fayre.

We have had a shit load of foreign managers given jobs, just because it's fashionable.

We have a shit load of foreign players playing when we clearly have talented English players waiting to play. Only have to look at our International youth records to see this.

The game is a joke.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Any managerless PL club not busting a gut to get Wilder is stupid. Long may stupidity prevail.

It would take a hell of a lot for him to consider leaving anyway. I know if I was him there's no way on earth I'd be moving anywhere.

Normally agree with you but disagree on this.

Usually the panel making the appointment will have a job spec with an idea of the direction that club wants to go.
At higher levels, having a hunch and taking risks/ gambles don’t come into it.
They simply compare the job spec with the applicants cv’s and also consider the reputation/ image of their appointments.

Wilders cv is incredibly poor for a PL club, so he would be a massive risk.
Wilders cv shows he’s never managed a single game at PL level, hardly any experience at Championship level.
Never managed big names, big egos or big money signings.
Not much experience being involved in relegation battles.
No experience dealing with massive media attention.

As I said he’s untried and untested at PL, so would be a huge risk.
PL leagues clubs have millions at stake, so why take the risk?
Also if you read the forums on Everton, Burnley, Sunderland etc, there’s a hell of a lot of snobbery and hardly anyone wants Wilder, he’s not even in the running with the fans (great news for us).

 

[Smirth]

They can’t be any good, they don’t get a chance to be!

Gary Rowett should’ve been considered for a Prem job by now for example, Dyche and Howe also deserve a bigger job.

What has Rowett achieved to mean he should be considered for a Prem job?

They get plenty of chances. There are currently 8 British managers, all bar Burnley have their team in the bottom half of the table. They just aren’t very good.

Puel, who you mentioned in your OP has a league title to his name, has taken a team to the semi finals of the Champions League, reached the EFL cup final last year and barring some awful decisions would have won it and guided Southampton to 8th. That’s not bad going really.

 

[BushBlade]

What has Rowett achieved to mean he should be considered for a Prem job?

They get plenty of chances. There are currently 8 British managers, all bar Burnley have their team in the bottom half of the table. They just aren’t very good.

Puel, who you mentioned in your OP has a league title to his name, has taken a team to the semi finals of the Champions League, reached the EFL cup final last year and barring some awful decisions would have won it and guided Southampton to 8th. That’s not bad going really.

You always hear managers saying that players look for excuses all the time but I think it's just endemic throughout football. It's easy for English managers to say 'I'd get a top job if it weren't for foreigners'. There's some truth in that, if we banned all foreigners then we'd have to give the top jobs to British managers but it wouldn't make them better managers. Football is fairly meritocratic, you win stuff, you climb the ladder.

Who would most people rather have? Pochettino or Pulis? Pep or Pardew? These foreign managers are willing to learn several languages, travel all around Europe, never settling, to get to the top of the tree and win trophies. Eddie Howe couldn't handle moving to Burnley ffs.

 

[Smirth]

You always hear managers saying that players look for excuses all the time but I think it's just endemic throughout football. It's easy for English managers to say 'I'd get a top job if it weren't for foreigners'. There's some truth in that, if we banned all foreigners then we'd have to give the top jobs to British managers but it wouldn't make them better managers. Football is fairly meritocratic, you win stuff, you climb the ladder.

Who would most people rather have? Pochettino or Pulis? Pep or Pardew? These foreign managers are willing to learn several languages, travel all around Europe, never settling, to get to the top of the tree and win trophies. Eddie Howe couldn't handle moving to Burnley ffs.

It’s not just at the elite level either.

Marco Silva was willing to put it all on the line to manage Hull in the dire state they were in, I can’t imagine many of these ‘great’ English managers would have taken such a risk.

The main problem with English managers is a lot of them just expect the top jobs to fall in to their laps, rather than dropping down the divisions and proving yourself. If they are good enough they will make it.

After Wilder there is not one English manager that I can think of at the moment that could realistically stake a claim for being good enough for a job in the Premier League.

 

[Sheffsteel]

not one English manager that I can think of at the moment that could realistically stake a claim for being good enough for a job in the Premier League.

I think it’s down to pure economics, there’s so much money in football that clubs are loathe to take risks and would much prefer the tried and tested. Also because football has never been more high profile, then how the manager handles the media and their reputation/ sexiness is also more of a factor than it should be.

I also don’t think it’s so simple to say “he’s a good manager” or “he’s a poor manager”.
Different managers have different strengths and weaknesses in different scenarios.

My dad used to say to me all the time Alex Ferguson and Jose Mourinho aren’t good managers and definitely aren’t as good as Neil Warnock. He’d say put Alex Ferguson or Mourinho in a struggling league 2 team and they’d be poor. I probably agree.

However Warnock, whilst great with limited/ average players often gaining promotion always seems poor in the PL.

I think PL clubs and PL fans look at Chris Wilder and are really impressed with what he’s done
But think winning league 2 and winning league 1 is totally irrelevant to managing in the PL.
So regards a PL job Wilder would be marked down as having very limited experience or credentials for a PL club.

 

[BushBlade]

It’s not just at the elite level either.

Marco Silva was willing to put it all on the line to manage Hull in the dire state they were in, I can’t imagine many of these ‘great’ English managers would have taken such a risk.

The main problem with English managers is a lot of them just expect the top jobs to fall in to their laps, rather than dropping down the divisions and proving yourself. If they are good enough they will make it.

After Wilder there is not one English manager that I can think of at the moment that could realistically stake a claim for being good enough for a job in the Premier League.

Wilder keeps up with the times. He uses every bit of technology available and coaches his players to play modern football. I listen to some of the ex managers on Talksport, like Saunders and Pearce and I think 'no wonder you're out of work, you're thick as fucking mince, you don't listen to what people are asking you when you answer questions, you talk in cliches and your ideas are from another age'.

We still tend the follow the route of ex players going into management when they've retired, starting when they're 35. It's only the occasional one who gets injured and starts coaching in their early twenties, such as Rodgers and Appleton that resemble some of the new foreign managers who often start coaching instead of playing, or in conjunction with playing, the ones who have the potential to be much better coaches than players.
It's no surprise Wilder was managing Bradway when he played for us, he was born to be a manager. Being a manager isn't what he does, it's what he is.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

I think it’s down to pure economics, there’s so much money in football that clubs are loathe to take risks and would much prefer the tried and tested. Also because football has never been more high profile, then how the manager handles the media and their reputation/ sexiness is also more of a factor than it should be.

I also don’t think it’s so simple to say “he’s a good manager” or “he’s a poor manager”.
Different managers have different strengths and weaknesses in different scenarios.

My dad used to say to me all the time Alex Ferguson and Jose Mourinho aren’t good managers and definitely aren’t as good as Neil Warnock. He’d say put Alex Ferguson or Mourinho in a struggling league 2 team and they’d be poor. I probably agree.

However Warnock, whilst great with limited/ average players often gaining promotion always seems poor in the PL.

I think PL clubs and PL fans look at Chris Wilder and are really impressed with what he’s done
But think winning league 2 and winning league 1 is totally irrelevant to managing in the PL.
So regards a PL job Wilder would be marked down as having very limited experience or credentials for a PL club.

So until Wilder gets promoted with us, he's not deserving of a PL job...?

Does that mean if he did get us promoted, had sodall to spend compared to his peers and got relegated, he'd be overlooked because his Premier League record is poor?

The top managers get top jobs because they've won things, but many have also underachieved in positions. Benitez' record isn't actually that great, he ruined Inter Milan, Real, Napoli, but he'll still get top jobs - why?

Guardiola has managed the best two teams in the world (before he was appointed) and Man City who have a net spend of 500m whilst he's been there. You could argue he was an utter failure last season and if it wasn't for his name, he'd have probably been sacked.

I love Klopp, but he's hardly doing a great job at Liverpool. In fact, despite big spend he's probably taken them backwards.

The only foreign managers I give any credit too at the moment in the Prem are Potteccino and Wenger. However even Wenger needs usurping now as he's well past his sell by date.

 

[BushBlade]

I think it’s down to pure economics, there’s so much money in football that clubs are loathe to take risks and would much prefer the tried and tested. Also because football has never been more high profile, then how the manager handles the media and their reputation/ sexiness is also more of a factor than it should be.

I also don’t think it’s so simple to say “he’s a good manager” or “he’s a poor manager”.
Different managers have different strengths and weaknesses in different scenarios.

My dad used to say to me all the time Alex Ferguson and Jose Mourinho aren’t good managers and definitely aren’t as good as Neil Warnock. He’d say put Alex Ferguson or Mourinho in a struggling league 2 team and they’d be poor. I probably agree.

However Warnock, whilst great with limited/ average players often gaining promotion always seems poor in the PL.

I think PL clubs and PL fans look at Chris Wilder and are really impressed with what he’s done
But think winning league 2 and winning league 1 is totally irrelevant to managing in the PL.
So regards a PL job Wilder would be marked down as having very limited experience or credentials for a PL club.

Was it Simon Jordan who said recently that they're specialists; managers like Warnock are Championship specialists and managers like Mourinho are PL specialists, with different skill sets particularly suited to their roles.

But neither Mourinho nor Ferguson started at a big club and both won in Europe with relatively small clubs. I don't think they're particularly good examples. I think after what Ferguson did at St Mirren you can't say he couldn't manage a L2 club. I'd love to see Pep have a go at Chesterfield though.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Was it Simon Jordan who said recently that they're specialists; managers like Warnock are Championship specialists and managers like Mourinho are PL specialists, with different skill sets particularly suited to their roles.

But neither Mourinho nor Ferguson started at a big club and both won in Europe with relatively small clubs. I don't think they're particularly good examples. I think after what Ferguson did at St Mirren you can't say he couldn't manage a L2 club. I'd love to see Pep have a go at Chesterfield though.

I think you could say that Mourinho couldn't manage a L2 though. He struggles managing a PL club after a season these days).

 

[snootyfenooty]

It's no surprise Wilder was managing Bradway when he played for us, he was born to be a manager. Being a manager isn't what he does, it's what he is.

Your flu must be better, you're starting to talk sense again...

What you say is exactly true, you see it so often at work where someone is promoted to managerial level purely due to length of service, favouritism and a fair bit of arse licking along the way. These people are often termed "accidental managers" and do not have the temperament nor skill set to succeed. You've either got it or you haven't. When names like Giggs are touted you just cringe as he's done absolutely zero to justify the job.

 

[Smirth]

The only foreign managers I give any credit too at the moment in the Prem are Potteccino and Wenger. However even Wenger needs usurping now as he's well past his sell by date.

Conte? Silva? Wagner?

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Conte? Silva? Wagner?

Yeah, can tell I'm still at work, was a poor post.

Conte was a breath of fresh air tbh, I love his enthusiasm for the game.
Silva - unknown, yeah he did ok at Hull and was never expected to perform a miracle there and keep them up. Decent start at Watford mind, see if he can keep that up.
Wagner - started ok, don't think he'll keep them up though. Wouldn't be a black mark on his record though, he's not expected to. However, any danger of them going down, they'll probably sack him like most chairman do at this level.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Pochettino and Wilder have a lot in common.

They both replaced Nigel Adkins.

 

[Caveblade]

They can’t be any good, they don’t get a chance to be!

Gary Rowett should’ve been considered for a Prem job by now for example, Dyche and Howe also deserve a bigger job.

Can someone explain to me what Gary Rowett has done that means he is seen as the wonderkid? A couple of decentish spells at clubs, but nothing approaching the track record of Chris Wilder.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Can someone explain to me what Gary Rowett has done that means he is seen as the wonderkid? A couple of decentish spells at clubs, but nothing approaching the track record of Chris Wilder.

He had Brum in top six after 10/15 games...

That's all he's achieved.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Was it Simon Jordan who said recently that they're specialists; managers like Warnock are Championship specialists and managers like Mourinho are PL specialists, with different skill sets particularly suited to their roles.

But neither Mourinho nor Ferguson started at a big club and both won in Europe with relatively small clubs. I don't think they're particularly good examples. I think after what Ferguson did at St Mirren you can't say he couldn't manage a L2 club. I'd love to see Pep have a go at Chesterfield though.

Yes it was Simon Jordan talking on Talksport.
He was talking about managerial specialists and how they get pigeon holed.
It’s the reason some really highly rated managers will never get top jobs.

He gave Sam Aladyce as an example, saying if a PL club wants to escape relegation then big Sam is one of the best managers in the world and well worth paying him a massive salary just to work for 6 months.

He also mentioned that if a team wants promotion from the Champiomship then Warnock has proven he’s one of the best managers in the world for that job.

The relevance of this that many people in the PL just think of Wilder as a manager that can win league 2 and league 1, at the moment that’s his pigeon holed speciality. He’s now gauranteed jobs in the lower division for life and will never be out of work.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Conte? Silva? Wagner?

Silva for no other reason than he made Paul Merson look the uneducated, thick, narrow minded, moron that he is....