New view of Lane re-development

[SelbyBlade]

I like the 'Beautiful Down Town Bramall Lane' writing on the south stand.

Would love this to go ahead. Would make The Lane one of the best grounds in the UK.

So I thought I'd indulge myself a bit and imagine we do get promoted. This is what is promised if we do. However the Prince's money (having only paid a pound for 50% of the club) was supposed to be invested in the Championship.
My issue is this:
If we do get promoted (I will still have been happy with the season if we don't) and this is built (big if) we will have locked in the Smaller Bramall Lane and John Street stands. if you look at the picture of the planned ground there is room behind the Kop, such that the Kop could be moved back into it and room behind the South stand that it can be moved into. The Pitch can then be moved South East towards the South Stand and Kop The stands can be phased and a seating corner considered between the Kop and the South Stand. It could still replicate the same design but both the Bramall Lane and John Street stands could be increased in size if necessary later on.
It really depends on the ambition of the club as to the limits set.

 

[Isar]

The Kop needs a complete overhaul. Need to take the opportunity to unify that end of the ground and tie the South Stand, Kop and John Street together into 'one' sweeping stand - Essentially matching the rake of the South Stand, then transition across the length of the Kop to then end up matching the Rake of John Street. Also, deal with the Concessions and Pissers add a covered Concourse, all while increasing the capacity by extending backwards towards Shoreham Street - There's enough room to almost double the floor plan of the existing Kop and introduce all manner of facilities under the rake.

Agree, I would like to see the Kop take priority in any redevelopment. Also the addition of a "safe standing" area across the entire back of the Kop with it's own entrances to separate it from any seating areas would make for a great improvement. There would be ample room to incorporate several concourses for food and beverages.

 

[JordoBlade]

We're one promotion away from the possibility of this maybe coming together.

 

[penthouseblade]

I remember reports saying that the 'bolt on' design for the Kop meant minimal disturbance.
The club could start building and leave much of the Kop open and still in use.
The dismantling of the current roof and putting on a new would be done dung the offseason (Summer).

However of course if we decided to flatten the sight and build a totally new stand at the Kop end then capacity would reduce to about 18,000 for a long spell which would mean lost revenue. Also there's a massive cost and potential unknown problems (could find unexplored bombs, hazardous materials, dead bodies etc) when removing tons of earth.

Hence why the bolt on to the back of the Kop design was the common sense preference.

Depends on your definition of common sense I guess? To me, a bolt on as you call it would be a tragic waste of what is a terrific opportunity to make Bramall Lane a truly world class stadium. It would be the cheap option, bolting something on with a new roof, fuck me that says it all! That stand needs razing to the ground and starting again, if we have to have reduced capacity for a short while then so be it; the end result will be something to be immensely proud of for generations to come, not something that could have been.....

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

That sounds impossibly expensive. You can’t just move a stand, it’s not on wheels

Edit, in reply to Jon Bon post.

 

[bladesmanluke]

Depends on your definition of common sense I guess? To me, a bolt on as you call it would be a tragic waste of what is a terrific opportunity to make Bramall Lane a truly world class stadium. It would be the cheap option, bolting something on with a new roof, fuck me that says it all! That stand needs razing to the ground and starting again, if we have to have reduced capacity for a short while then so be it; the end result will be something to be immensely proud of for generations to come, not something that could have been.....

But it’s about return on investment. There’s no point doing it if the club won’t profit from it. The difference between the 2 could be 5 years at premier league level to pay for the work, or 45

 

[penthouseblade]

But it’s about return on investment. There’s no point doing it if the club won’t profit from it. The difference between the 2 could be 5 years at premier league level to pay for the work, or 45

Yes I appreciate that, of course it will be much more expensive to rebuild completely but then there would be much more scope to introduce revenue streams from the space created underneath the new stand. I suggested a casino a while back!! That may be unrealistic but you get my drift? I've no idea of the costs involved for either approach but the current flat take is really really poor, for 2017 and beyond, keeping it just isn't good enough I'm afraid, a way must be found to rebuild from scratch!

 

[Ricky]

It would certainly be worth making short term sacrifices to build the Kop from scratch.

It would turn Bramall Lane into an outstanding stadium if it was done right.

 

[Sean Thornton]

It would certainly be worth making short term sacrifices to build the Kop from scratch.

It would turn Bramall Lane into an outstanding stadium if it was done right.

As I said earlier in the thread who will pay. It's now stated catergorically on here that the Prince is running the club because there are no McCabes on the board yet they still have 50% of the shares AND the ground. Why would McCabe pay when the current rent doesn't even cover the expenses.

 

[Jon Bon II]

That sounds impossibly expensive. You can’t just move a stand, it’s not on wheels

Edit, in reply to Jon Bon post.

Which post mate?

 

[penthouseblade]

As I said earlier in the thread who will pay. It's now stated catergorically on here that the Prince is running the club because there are no McCabes on the board yet they still have 50% of the shares AND the ground. Why would McCabe pay when the current rent doesn't even cover the expenses.

What about Chinese Dave, he has a few quid doesn't he?

 

[Worksop II]

Why would McCabe pay when the current rent doesn't even cover the expenses.

Maybe the rent will be going up to £1million per game to cover the Family's costs

 

[penthouseblade]

As I said earlier in the thread who will pay. It's now stated catergorically on here that the Prince is running the club because there are no McCabes on the board yet they still have 50% of the shares AND the ground. Why would McCabe pay when the current rent doesn't even cover the expenses.

Seriously though, it would have to be McCabe wouldn't it as his half of the deal with the Prince means Bramall Lane is in his control? Maybe not directly paying for it but perhaps a loan taken out against the stadium? I'm only hypothesising by the way, I'm not sure what the answer is but there has got to be a way of rebuilding the Kop!

 

[LoughboroBlade]

As I said earlier in the thread who will pay. It's now stated catergorically on here that the Prince is running the club because there are no McCabes on the board yet they still have 50% of the shares AND the ground. Why would McCabe pay when the current rent doesn't even cover the expenses.

Would the potential extra venue from additional use of the Kop facility (whatever that would be) help recoup a junk of that? At any rate, I doubt we’d see this seriously considered until we were promoted, when the additional revenue from that league would cover the bulk of it. It makes commercial sense in the long run to do it properly.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

That stand needs razing to the ground and starting again

Indeed it does need razing - it belongs in the last century.

We have very few quality seats in our ground.

We need 2 developments - and my assumption is we have had 3 to 4 years of continued Premier League enjoyment before the start.

1st - Extend the South Stand to create more corporate and quality seats. The reason is very simple: Liverpool ROI with their new main stand was 3 to 4 years due to all the corporate spending. The ROI if they were to extend the Anfield Road stand would be 15 years which is why it has been postponed indefinitely.

2nd - to completely flatten the Kop and rebuild from scratch (and hopefully take the stupid little corner down with it). People over 6 feet tall find it difficult to sit down properly in the kop. The facilities are 19th century. Peterborough's facilities in their new stand we sat in last season are light years ahead of ours - even South Stand. The congestion under South Stand before a game is a joke - hence the 1st option above to improve those too.

Some of you should go on the Spurs website and have a look at the facilities for their new ground - for ALL fans. It sets the bar higher than probably anything in Europe. Yes it takes money, and United's would too, which is why Premier League/Sky/BT money should pay for it.

Quite confident CW will take us their too - lets just hope our joint owners can help out in some way, then perhaps better facilities will follow.

UTB

 

[itsinyerblood]

Indeed it does need razing - it belongs in the last century.

We have very few quality seats in our ground.

We need 2 developments - and my assumption is we have had 3 to 4 years of continued Premier League enjoyment before the start.

1st - Extend the South Stand to create more corporate and quality seats. The reason is very simple: Liverpool ROI with their new main stand was 3 to 4 years due to all the corporate spending. The ROI if they were to extend the Anfield Road stand would be 15 years which is why it has been postponed indefinitely.

2nd - to completely flatten the Kop and rebuild from scratch (and hopefully take the stupid little corner down with it). People over 6 feet tall find it difficult to sit down properly in the kop. The facilities are 19th century. Peterborough's facilities in their new stand we sat in last season are light years ahead of ours - even South Stand. The congestion under South Stand before a game is a joke - hence the 1st option above to improve those too.

Some of you should go on the Spurs website and have a look at the facilities for their new ground - for ALL fans. It sets the bar higher than probably anything in Europe. Yes it takes money, and United's would too, which is why Premier League/Sky/BT money should pay for it.

Quite confident CW will take us their too - lets just hope our joint owners can help out in some way, then perhaps better facilities will follow.

UTB

Good read that Fulwood.

Obviously the money that arrives due to being in the Premiership is the means to this particular end. I've gone over the existing plans for t'Lane and they seem decent, are you suggesting raising this particular bar so that we have an even better stadium? For myself, as someone a little over 6' I'd appreciate more leg room, whether this is incorporated in the new plans I'm unsure, but it's this attention to detail that would make a huge difference, at least to the likes of myself.

 

[Groucho Blade]

Would we need to play somewhere else whilst this redevelopment was going on?

Where could we go?

 

[itsinyerblood]

Would we need to play somewhere else whilst this redevelopment was going on?

Where could we go?

I'm not a project manager Aga, at least not on a project of this scale. Contractual deadlines would need to be implemented and kept to.

It will certainly need the type of planning that gives the club the chance to get this - the Kop - built over a time period that doesn't go on for years. I'm sure that all Blades would be behind this if the club communicated their intentions clearly, with no hidden agendas but with a clear desire to get the job done without compromise. Once completed it will stand for decades, possibly a hundred years, so forward thinking is essential, there needs to be the type of planning that lifts everyone's expectations and puts this ground on a level that isn't out of place on a European canvas. First class facilities, vastly improved toilets, exists fit for disabled people, refreshment kiosks and bars equipped to a standard that meets the needs of today's, and tomorrow's, customers, and seating that allows decent leg room (that's a personal gripe), and a vista that enables everyone to see the pitch clearly.

As for the question, where would we go? Hopefully, whilst there would be inconvenience, it could be constructed by a partial closure of the ground. As for how long would this go on? Haven't a clue. I'm hoping that someone can answer this question realistically.

 

[super_pig]

I'm not a project manager Aga, at least not on a project of this scale. Contractual deadlines would need to be implemented and kept to.

It will certainly need the type of planning that gives the club the chance to get this - the Kop - built over a time period that doesn't go on for years. I'm sure that all Blades would be behind this if the club communicated their intentions clearly, with no hidden agendas but with a clear desire to get the job done without compromise. Once completed it will stand for decades, possibly a hundred years, so forward thinking is essential, there needs to be the type of planning that lifts everyone's expectations and puts this ground on a level that isn't out of place on a European canvas. First class facilities, vastly improved toilets, exists fit for disabled people, refreshment kiosks and bars equipped to a standard that meets the needs of today's, and tomorrow's, customers, and seating that allows decent leg room (that's a personal gripe), and a vista that enables everyone to see the pitch clearly.

As for the question, where would we go? Hopefully, whilst there would be inconvenience, it could be constructed by a partial closure of the ground. As for how long would this go on? Haven't a clue. I'm hoping that someone can answer this question realistically.

Rotherham?

 

[itsinyerblood]

Rotherham?

What's their capacity?

 

[PTBlade]

A tad over 12,000 I believe.
Not big enough.
We would be better off using 3 sides of the Lane .

 

[itsinyerblood]

A tad over 12,000 I believe.
Not big enough.
We would be better off using 3 sides of the Lane .

That's my opinion.....if the work was started early enough I wonder how long it'd take to complete the Kop?

 

[Booker4]

We'd all love to see the Kop and the corner stand re-developed but it won't happen unless we get promoted as there isn't the need for it capacity wise, but it will happen one day, of that I'm sure, especially if we carry on like we are. I don't find the Kop as bad as some say and I'm 6.2ft tall so I know leg room is tight. The toilets are packed and aren't the best and the catering facilities aren't the best in the land but its not like the old John Street is it!?

 

[Jon Bon II]

The kop won't be flattened, I can tell you quite categorically. The permission is in place for it to be 'extended', same as the south stand will be extended. This at least would mean minimum disruption, if and when it happens, and shouldn't see ground capacity reduced by much while the work is going ahead. This is why it would make sense to do it sooner, rather than later while we still have the spare day-to-day capacity. Once promoted, you would probably fill the ground every game, so any drop in capacity then is lost revenue. Plus, if it's already done, there'll be more revenue from the increased capacity, which will be considerable, I would have thought.

 

[bladesmanluke]

I really don’t see the issue with the current plans. The kop extension includes new indoor facilities and a steeper rake for the new 3,000 seats. It gets rid of the supporting pillars too.

Demolishing and rebuilding will be hideously expensive and likely to not even increase the capacity at all. The kop has a huge capacity because of the little leg room. Get rid of that and there goes your ROI entirely, forever.

 

[Sheffsteel]

There’s 2 schools of thoughts regards stadium expansion.

Option 1: There’s the vanity project based on what fans (including me) would like to see and
Option 2: The project with a clear business plan based on “return from investment”.

Guess what? Unfortunately virtually 100% of all club owners choose option 2.

McCabe is in the business of Property/ land Developer and you would expect him to be an expert on these matters.
If there’s money to be made he would have expanded the stadium already.

A major factor in stadium expansion is the closure or semi closure of the ground reducing capacity.
I believe the “bolt on” design meant that there would hardly be any stadium reduction.
Most of the Kop will remain open whilst work is being done.
Then the major work of removing the pillars, chancing the roof etc could be done during the Summer.

 

[bromtom]

I'll preface this by saying I'm not a builder, or an architect, so whether this is cobblers I don't know, but in my head it makes sense.

I think the South Stand is alright unless we are solid low mid table premier league or better for a couple of years, and if we did do something to it, for me it'd have to be building backwards up, new insides, and a new front (that'd be great) because it'll be extending depth wise into the car park. Take row TT and add on. Another 10 rows is roughly 2000 extra seats based on my quick check of the ticketing site, seats are 1-193, so 15 new rows would be 3000, and 20, 4000, you can scale it, and the height change wouldn't be massively severe, probably a bit taller than the hotel (there may be some windows blocked though).

Stick in some new corporate stuff under the roof line perhaps.

I think that way it could possibly be almost done in a summer with minimal impact to a season, the roof would need to be rebuilt which would be I imagine the most pressing thing, and then you could block access to some rows at the back for game days while work continues during the week if need be. I think Man U did a stand this way, the stand itself remains largely untouched, stuff is added and joined.

The Kop though is a state, that needs doing ASAP, again, work from the back, so start building the new back and concourse areas in the little carpark about halfway through the season, and then final day start to demolish what you need to of the exiting Kop and start joining them up in the close season.

I've got it all worked out in my head haha, there'll be a mid height corner for the Kop and South Stand, and above it there'll be an office building thing to keep McCabe happy, and the Pukka Pies corner will be rebuilt to join neatly with something, with new TV facilities so you see the South Stand on TV, and corporate shite.

More disabled access is important too, it'd be nice if we designed that in, if people want to come, it'd be nice to be able to have them.

A good version of this hasty sketch

 

[blade too long]

Don't mean to sound like Mr. Meldrew, but what a load of old shit.

Looks beautiful, but is it necessary? By all means crack on with making the Kop look like that, but that extension plus another tier on the South Stand? We'd never fill it.

Would in the prem 80 k turned up to watch spurs play a very poor Liverpool ensemble

 

[Paulus]

Given Shrewsbury's break through with safe standing could we do this in the central section of a redeveloped kop addressing the legroom issues as well as giving the option to stand??

 

[Sheffsteel]

I'll preface this by saying I'm not a builder, or an architect, so whether this is cobblers I don't know, but in my head it makes sense.

I think the South Stand is alright unless we are solid low mid table premier league or better for a couple of years, and if we did do something to it, for me it'd have to be building backwards up, new insides, and a new front (that'd be great) because it'll be extending depth wise into the car park. Take row TT and add on. Another 10 rows is roughly 2000 extra seats based on my quick check of the ticketing site, seats are 1-193, so 15 new rows would be 3000, and 20, 4000, you can scale it, and the height change wouldn't be massively severe, probably a bit taller than the hotel (there may be some windows blocked though).

Stick in some new corporate stuff under the roof line perhaps.

I think that way it could possibly be almost done in a summer with minimal impact to a season, the roof would need to be rebuilt which would be I imagine the most pressing thing, and then you could block access to some rows at the back for game days while work continues during the week if need be. I think Man U did a stand this way, the stand itself remains largely untouched, stuff is added and joined.

The Kop though is a state, that needs doing ASAP, again, work from the back, so start building the new back and concourse areas in the little carpark about halfway through the season, and then final day start to demolish what you need to of the exiting Kop and start joining them up in the close season.

I've got it all worked out in my head haha, there'll be a mid height corner for the Kop and South Stand, and above it there'll be an office building thing to keep McCabe happy, and the Pukka Pies corner will be rebuilt to join neatly with something, with new TV facilities so you see the South Stand on TV, and corporate shite.

More disabled access is important too, it'd be nice if we designed that in, if people want to come, it'd be nice to be able to have them.

A good version of this hasty sketch

There’s a problem with that sketch.

The current Kop goes well past the corner flag, so joining the Kop onto the South stand means a reduction in capacity.
The club are hardly going to spend millions to “reduce” the capacity.

Like the idea of a Chris Wilder stand though, it may well happen one day.