Wilder/Knill, the team and the sum of the parts

[1danewhitehouse]

What Wilder and Knill have achieved with the tools at their disposal this season and last really is remarkable. Let’s have a look at our players that started Saturday and their situation before these lads got hold of them


Blackman- Chelsea youth on loan at Wycombe previously. Matchwinner on his debut for us and generally impressive


Basham- Steady league 1 utility player. Divided opinion amongst fans even at that level. Now an excellent footballing centre half contributing hugely both defensively and offensively.


Wright- Released by Oxford following their promotion from League 2. Not deemed good enough for League 1 by them. Never lost a league game for us.


O’Connell- Brentford reserve being loaned out to Rochdale. Absolutely formidable for us with obvious parallels being drawn to Harry Maguire.


Freeman- Loaned out to League 2 pompey as couldn’t hold down a place at League 1 Sheffield United. 10 goals from wing back in a title winning team and continues to impress in the Championship.


Stevens- League 2 player (albeit a very good one). Now a key first team player in the championship.


Fleck League 1 player for Coventry (albeit a good one). Now looking an accomplished championship player. Signed on a free. Must be worth £5-10 million now in today’s market.


Coutts- Considered a bit of a liability and a passenger for us in League 1. Was heading for the exit door. Now the lubricant that makes the machine of our team operate so effectively. Excellent on the ball and much improved off it.


Duffy- Good League 1 player but Burton didn’t fancy keeping him on following promotion. Wrong side of 30, free agent etc. Now an integral part of a championship team who provides a creative spark. Winger converted to number 10 to great effect.



Sharp- Proven player but dropped to League 1 as he approached 30 and hadn’t made a huge impact with the dirties. Good 21 goals for us the previous year in League 1. Bagged 30 under Wilder. Captain. Made a fantastic start to life back in the championship.


Donaldson- Steady Eddie at Birmingham but his game time was declining with his advancing years and he was eventually deemed surplus to requirements. Explosive debut netting 2 goals.


It really is incredible to think that Wilder/Knill have these players playing teams off the park in the championship and that there doesn’t appear to be a weak link amongst them with the likes of JOC, Bash, Coutts, Fleck etc. looking extremely accomplished at this level. The system we play and the intensity with which we play it has improved most of our players tenfold. They’ve also managed this whilst raising a few million selling the likes of Adams, DCL, Ramsdale etc. It really is a phenomenal achievement. If Wilder did the unthinkable and got us to the Prem, he really ought to be getting considered for the England job.

 

[Esablade]

Getting the most from your resources, sign of good management.

UTB!

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

What Wilder and Knill have achieved with the tools at their disposal this season and last really is remarkable. Let’s have a look at our players that started Saturday and their situation before these lads got hold of them


Blackman- Chelsea youth on loan at Wycombe previously. Matchwinner on his debut for us and generally impressive


Basham- Steady league 1 utility player. Divided opinion amongst fans even at that level. Now an excellent footballing centre half contributing hugely both defensively and offensively.


Wright- Released by Oxford following their promotion from League 2. Not deemed good enough for League 1 by them. Never lost a league game for us.


O’Connell- Brentford reserve being loaned out to Rochdale. Absolutely formidable for us with obvious parallels being drawn to Harry Maguire.


Freeman- Loaned out to League 2 pompey as couldn’t hold down a place at League 1 Sheffield United. 10 goals from wing back in a title winning team and continues to impress in the Championship.


Stevens- League 2 player (albeit a very good one). Now a key first team player in the championship.


Fleck League 1 player for Coventry (albeit a good one). Now looking an accomplished championship player. Signed on a free. Must be worth £5-10 million now in today’s market.


Coutts- Considered a bit of a liability and a passenger for us in League 1. Was heading for the exit door. Now the lubricant that makes the machine of our team operate so effectively. Excellent on the ball and much improved off it.


Duffy- Good League 1 player but Burton didn’t fancy keeping him on following promotion. Wrong side of 30, free agent etc. Now an integral part of a championship team who provides a creative spark. Winger converted to number 10 to great effect.



Sharp- Proven player but dropped to League 1 as he approached 30 and hadn’t made a huge impact with the dirties. Good 21 goals for us the previous year in League 1. Bagged 30 under Wilder. Captain. Made a fantastic start to life back in the championship.


Donaldson- Steady Eddie at Birmingham but his game time was declining with his advancing years and he was eventually deemed surplus to requirements. Explosive debut netting 2 goals.


It really is incredible to think that Wilder/Knill have these players playing teams off the park in the championship and that there doesn’t appear to be a weak link amongst them with the likes of JOC, Bash, Coutts, Fleck etc. looking extremely accomplished at this level. The system we play and the intensity with which we play it has improved most of our players tenfold. They’ve also managed this whilst raising a few million selling the likes of Adams, DCL, Ramsdale etc. It really is a phenomenal achievement. If Wilder did the unthinkable and got us to the Prem, he really ought to be getting considered for the England job.

Wilder wouldn't do much for England. His main attribute appears to be selecting players based on certain criteria. Something to prove, young, ambitious etc..

He'd never get the same out of 200k p/w passionless, overpaid, rather be on holiday types....

 

[Ron_Justice]

Can they be United and England management at the same time? Personally, I'd take United European success over England World Cup success so let's keep them. I think they might do well

 

[Ron_Justice]

Wilder wouldn't do much for England. His main attribute appears to be selecting players based on certain criteria. Something to prove, young, ambitious etc..

He'd never get the same out of 200k p/w passionless, overpaid, rather be on holiday types....

That's this thing though, he could fill the team with young, ambitious players that have something to prove and be just as successful as the last 5 England Managers.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Wilder wouldn't do much for England. His main attribute appears to be selecting players based on certain criteria. Something to prove, young, ambitious etc..

He'd never get the same out of 200k p/w passionless, overpaid, rather be on holiday types....

But he could just call up championship, league 1 and 2 players instead of those dickheads and piss all over Spain, Germany, Brazil etc. Billy Sharp to score the winner in the World cup final with magic Jack putting Neymar in the stands.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

That's this thing though, he could fill the team with young, ambitious players that have something to prove and be just as successful as the last 5 England Managers.

Whilst that would be refreshing, he'd have the boo boys on his back from day 1. Southgate selected Jake Livermore, probably fits the criteria, but I along with every other football fan was thinking WTF.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Wilder wouldn't do much for England. His main attribute appears to be selecting players based on certain criteria. Something to prove, young, ambitious etc..

He'd never get the same out of 200k p/w passionless, overpaid, rather be on holiday types....

They'd have to pass the 15 tick boxes to even get in the squad.

 

[Ron_Justice]

Even an ugly bird begins to looks alright if she gives the best head going. The boo boys would boo, until England win their group at a canter and storm the Euro's.

 

[Boxer Blade]

Whilst that would be refreshing, he'd have the boo boys on his back from day 1. Southgate selected Jake Livermore, probably fits the criteria, but I along with every other football fan was thinking WTF.

I was thinking WTF when Southgate said phil Jones was the best English centre back in the country, and he was a centre half.

 

[Slim Man]

I look at that bunch and one thing sticks out a million miles, if we were to sell them , nearly every one would end up at a better club than the one they were at before they came. (I don't include Blackman in that, was thinking Wycombe rather than Chelsea!)

Freeman - Derby > PL Huddersfield were linked...
Basham - Blackpool > Would get in most bottom half championship squads at least
Wright - Oxford > Would be a League One captain at any club, would get in a lot of bottom half championship squads
JOC - Brentford > Would get in any defence in this division
Stevens - Pompey > Simply a championship player
Coutts - Derby > Doesn't tell the whole story, but would walk into their team given 2 weeks ago
Fleck - Coventry > A comfortable top half championship player
Duffy - Burton > Proven himself a good championship player
Sharp - Leeds > Ok, unbelievably this is probably the most unlikely one considering they are pissing it at the moment but he is comfortably a championship player
Donaldson - Brum > Too early to say, but maybe they are already regretting selling him...

And we are so used to seeing players come on a downward curve and keep going down. Think Higdon to Tranmere, McEveley to Ross County, JCR to Barnet, Hammond to... well... nowhere.
This is polar opposites. Even the players that have dropped to us like Donaldson, Sharp, Duffy have all put themselves on an upward curve.

It's remarkable compared to the last 6 years.

 

[I should coco]

It's remarkable compared to the last 6 years.

You deserve a 'like' for that alone.

After years of shit, we finally have a team to be proud of - hallelujah!

 

[Hodgyman]

Wilder wouldn't do much for England. His main attribute appears to be selecting players based on certain criteria. Something to prove, young, ambitious etc..

He'd never get the same out of 200k p/w passionless, overpaid, rather be on holiday types....

Who says he would play those types of players? He would probably build a great team out of other good players that aren't self obsessed, prima donnas , who could play together as a team, but not yet please.

 

[RMBlade]

Who says he would play those types of players? He would probably build a great team out of other good players that aren't self obsessed, prima donnas , who could play together as a team, but not yet please.

Probably why the FA wouldn't hire him. They love a good "yes man". plus I read somewhere that they are sticking with the 4-2-3-1 at all age groups for England. So no 3-5-2 for Wilder.

He isn't the "type" that the FA goes for which helps to explain the decline of the national team. They will probably go and get Eddie Howe in a couple of years. Good manager but would he be able to control the likes of Sterling.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Wilder wouldn't do much for England. His main attribute appears to be selecting players based on certain criteria. Something to prove, young, ambitious etc..

He'd never get the same out of 200k p/w passionless, overpaid, rather be on holiday types....

Just one part of what you say is not (yet) true. The current first-team squad is not young. He has perhaps been unlucky in that the younger players have either been saleable (DCL, Ramsdale, Adams), injured (Chapman, Riley), or deals have failed to go through, or he has not yet felt they are battle-hardened enough (Whiteman, Brooks). He has been brilliant at getting the best out of players entering or in their prime, but he has not yet brought through a youngster. Maybe circumstances will change, but so far he has not taken many risks with younger players. And that is not a criticism, by the way.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Just one part of what you say is not (yet) true. The current first-team squad is not young. He has perhaps been unlucky in that the younger players have either been saleable (DCL, Ramsdale, Adams), injured (Chapman, Riley), or deals have failed to go through, or he has not yet felt they are battle-hardened enough (Whiteman, Brooks). He has been brilliant at getting the best out of players entering or in their prime, but he has not yet brought through a youngster. Maybe circumstances will change, but so far he has not taken many risks with younger players. And that is not a criticism, by the way.

Take away the strikers and the majority of players he's brought in aren't exactly old:

CCV, EEL, Heneghan, Stevens, Baldock, Carruthers, Lundstram, Blackman, Thomas.

 

[shorehamview]

Wilder and Knill have proven that sometimes 2+2 can add up to a lot more than 5.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Take away the strikers and the majority of players he's brought in aren't exactly old:

CCV, EEL, Heneghan, Stevens, Baldock, Carruthers, Lundstram, Blackman, Thomas.

That's true, and we can add Chapman, Riley, Lavery. My point, though, is that of those you list, only Stevens is first choice, and perhaps Blackman. I haven't done the maths, but I imagine our Matchday squads this season have not been below average age for the Championship. But I am not being critical, I think circumstances have affected this, though I also think Wilder's instinct is to stick with the tried and tested - and to move on quickly as soon as standards slip.

 

[DronnieBlade]

What Wilder and Knill have achieved with the tools at their disposal this season and last really is remarkable. Let’s have a look at our players that started Saturday and their situation before these lads got hold of them


Blackman- Chelsea youth on loan at Wycombe previously. Matchwinner on his debut for us and generally impressive


Basham- Steady league 1 utility player. Divided opinion amongst fans even at that level. Now an excellent footballing centre half contributing hugely both defensively and offensively.


Wright- Released by Oxford following their promotion from League 2. Not deemed good enough for League 1 by them. Never lost a league game for us.


O’Connell- Brentford reserve being loaned out to Rochdale. Absolutely formidable for us with obvious parallels being drawn to Harry Maguire.


Freeman- Loaned out to League 2 pompey as couldn’t hold down a place at League 1 Sheffield United. 10 goals from wing back in a title winning team and continues to impress in the Championship.


Stevens- League 2 player (albeit a very good one). Now a key first team player in the championship.


Fleck League 1 player for Coventry (albeit a good one). Now looking an accomplished championship player. Signed on a free. Must be worth £5-10 million now in today’s market.


Coutts- Considered a bit of a liability and a passenger for us in League 1. Was heading for the exit door. Now the lubricant that makes the machine of our team operate so effectively. Excellent on the ball and much improved off it.


Duffy- Good League 1 player but Burton didn’t fancy keeping him on following promotion. Wrong side of 30, free agent etc. Now an integral part of a championship team who provides a creative spark. Winger converted to number 10 to great effect.



Sharp- Proven player but dropped to League 1 as he approached 30 and hadn’t made a huge impact with the dirties. Good 21 goals for us the previous year in League 1. Bagged 30 under Wilder. Captain. Made a fantastic start to life back in the championship.


Donaldson- Steady Eddie at Birmingham but his game time was declining with his advancing years and he was eventually deemed surplus to requirements. Explosive debut netting 2 goals.


It really is incredible to think that Wilder/Knill have these players playing teams off the park in the championship and that there doesn’t appear to be a weak link amongst them with the likes of JOC, Bash, Coutts, Fleck etc. looking extremely accomplished at this level. The system we play and the intensity with which we play it has improved most of our players tenfold. They’ve also managed this whilst raising a few million selling the likes of Adams, DCL, Ramsdale etc. It really is a phenomenal achievement. If Wilder did the unthinkable and got us to the Prem, he really ought to be getting considered for the England job.

I get the sentiment.

But your being a tad harsh on a few.

Good players are better when in and around good players.

Take Coutts.

I'll defy anyone to shine and flourish when you are always looking out for the next major bollock that a certain Mr Hammond is about to drop. You can't concentrate on your own game, and what your good at. Enter Mr Fleck and all is well with the world.

Sharp is the same. Needs someone on his wavelength. Hopelessly ineffective when played alongside a certain "type" of strike partner, where more often than not, a more direct approach is taken.

UTB

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

That's true, and we can add Chapman, Riley, Lavery. My point, though, is that of those you list, only Stevens is first choice, and perhaps Blackman. I haven't done the maths, but I imagine our Matchday squads this season have not been below average age for the Championship. But I am not being critical, I think circumstances have affected this, though I also think Wilder's instinct is to stick with the tried and tested - and to move on quickly as soon as standards slip.

But those are players he inherited.

I'm talking of his criteria of players brought in.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Good players are better when in and around good players.

Take Coutts.

UTB

Totally agree,

I think Fleck, Coutts and Duffy are fantastic, the best midfield unit I've seen us have in decades
BUT I predict that if we sold any of them, opposition fans would wonder what the fuss was about.

I seriously don't think Fleck, Coutts or Duffy would be that good at another club.
They are so impressive for us because all 3 know each other's game, strengths and weaknesses inside out.

If you know your colleagues have great ball control then it makes your game easier because you can pass to them even when they are semi marked up. Football is a team game and working together like a well oiled machine can take you far.

 

[Hull Blade]

Synergy.....The sum of the parts is greater than the whole, or summit like that...Used to be a strategic management buzz word some time ago, it needs to be revived for the benefit of the lads..

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I get the sentiment.

But your being a tad harsh on a few.

Good players are better when in and around good players.

Take Coutts.

I'll defy anyone to shine and flourish when you are always looking out for the next major bollock that a certain Mr Hammond is about to drop. You can't concentrate on your own game, and what your good at. Enter Mr Fleck and all is well with the world.

Sharp is the same. Needs someone on his wavelength. Hopelessly ineffective when played alongside a certain "type" of strike partner, where more often than not, a more direct approach is taken.

UTB

Valid points. But Wilder has found a way to bring the best out in all of them. They are now all good players whereas before, you could be forgiven for thinking many of them were useless/average. It's absolutely phenomenal the way Wilder has optimised the performance of just about every player.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Valid points. But Wilder has found a way to bring the best out in all of them. They are now all good players whereas before, you could be forgiven for thinking many of them were useless/average. It's absolutely phenomenal the way Wilder has optimised the performance of just about every player.

Further weight.

Sharp just can't play alongside Clarke. Totally ineffective. Barely touched the ball last night. Clarke being the more "focal" point of the attack, with Billy expected to link up.

This strategy is destined to fail. It doesn't help that Clarke can't trap a bag of sand and was otherwise piss poor last night. On top of poor control, he was never in front of his marker, didn't battle aerially and possession turned over almost every time he was directly involved. It just isn't good enough. Sorry.

When you have an obvious "asset" like Sharp, it is criminal not to play to his strengths in an offensive sense.

Either that, or put him on the bench.

UTB

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Further weight.

Sharp just can't play alongside Clarke. Totally ineffective. Barely touched the ball last night. Clarke being the more "focal" point of the attack, with Billy expected to link up.

This strategy is destined to fail. It doesn't help that Clarke can't trap a bag of sand and was otherwise piss poor last night. On top of poor control, he was never in front of his marker, didn't battle aerially and possession turned over almost every time he was directly involved. It just isn't good enough. Sorry.

When you have an obvious "asset" like Sharp, it is criminal not to play to his strengths in an offensive sense.

Either that, or put him on the bench.

UTB

Whilst I don't agree with your assessment of Clarke, I do agree that Sharp is better alongside a pacier partner who can run in behind and stretch teams. That said, he has scored all of his goals so far when alongside Clarke.

 

[pommpey]

Take Coutts.

I'll defy anyone to shine and flourish when you are always looking out for the next major bollock that a certain Mr Hammond is about to drop. You can't concentrate on your own game, and what your good at. Enter Mr Fleck and all is well with the world.

UTB

Agreed. Saw Coutts play in our 1-1 draw with Crawley in Feb 2015. When Kennedy went off injured, we switched to 4-5-1 and Coutts looked lost, playing alongside Doyle with Dess ... I mean Murphy out wide. He clearly didn't know what to do and what game to play and was largely anonymous, with the better attacking options coming down the right flank with Flynn and Freeman. That game I'd have given Coutts a 4, I think. He looked like a mistake signing. What a difference Wilder has made.

pommpey

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

Valid points. But Wilder has found a way to bring the best out in all of them. They are now all good players whereas before, you could be forgiven for thinking many of them were useless/average. It's absolutely phenomenal the way Wilder has optimised the performance of just about every player.

Reminds me of the old adage - " hard work will beat skill if skill doesn`t work hard ". As CW signs more skill and gets them working hard, I can only be very optimistic about the future. UTMB.

 

[I should coco]

Reminds me of the old adage - " hard work will beat skill if skill doesn`t work hard "

Funny that, it also reminds me of the old adage "Nah nah, nah nah, eesablade and eesablade..."

 

[Iceybabey]

Someone make a bloody documentary/film abaaaat it.

Some good individual stories but Jake Wright- that is all.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

A couple of thoughts in support of the original post.
1. There is no player in the team whose absence through injury or suspension makes you think that this team can't win. Perhaps a prolonged absence from Billy would hurt, but no player is so much better than everyone else that they cannot be replaced.
2. The current team is great to watch, but there is no individual player who puts several thousand on the attendance - a Hagan, Currie, Woodward, Deane, etc. It could be that Brooks can become such a player, but I suspect he will first have to prove that he is a team-player. The scarcity of songs/chants about individuals is quite striking, and not the result of a lack of fans' creativity.
It is hard to think of a similar team in United's history.