Stoke, setting the example

[dublin 10 blade]

In a few years time , on other forums ,
Fans will be saying , why can't we be like Sheffield United ,
Who did it without breaking the bank , signed good solid players , have a good academy , and have solid support .
Stoke may have changed the percentage game since Pullis left ( sacked ) ,
but if memory serves me right it was the fans ,
Sick of the kick and rush , who in the end got him out ,
There's only so much pressure your neck can take from seeing it kicked high and long .
Sir Daves times were a different era , and I will stand no criticism of the man .
Sorry Pinchy .

 

[Pinchy]

History of the last 50 years makes the first sentence dubious. The second sentence is an act of faith, based on one good year in League 3. I hope you are right, but it is a long way from being certain.

We should take lessons from Levi at Spuds. No shrinking violet he
Think of a value, double or treble it and tell the buyers to take it or leave it

He can afford to!

 

[Fanny magnet]

I'd rather watch an endless loop of Miranda than watch stoke even if I lived in stoke the least interesting place outside the sea of tranquillity

 

[Houston_Blade]

Fair do's.
Not wanting us to emulate Stokes league position is wanting us not to achieve our potential.Realistically we cannot hope to be top 6 prem,but given football is a competitive sport with a pyramid structure I would prefer to see us compete at the level we can reasonably expect to given our size,fanbase and resources. I certainly want that above the lot of Burnley or Hull to give 2 examples of clubs that emulate your desires.

If we consolidate in the PL for years and years there'd be nothing to talk about. Threats about Corbyn and Brexit would be double the length they are now.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

You've clearly not read the post that you commented on. Nowhere in that post did I comment on Stoke's style of play, just the fact that I don't want a team who sit in the middle of the Premier League with very little prospect of excitement from one year to the next. I know that's the holy grail for some but I actually prefer a few ups and downs along the way. You may not agree and that's your point of view but please do read things before you try to start an irrelevant debate.

I don't mind the ups, but having witnessed every relegation since 1953, I am struggling to remember one I enjoyed.

 

[grafikhaus]

There's an obvious business model we need.

Stoke City. Owned by Peter Coates who founded Bet365. Reported figures to March 2010 showing amounts wagered on sports at £5.4 billion, revenues of £358 million, and an operating profit of £104 million, Coates is the 25th richest man in British football.

Southampton. Owned by Katharina Liebherr (of construction cranes fame). Estimated worth? £3.9Bn.

Bournemouth. Owned by Maxim Victorovich Demin who runs Wintel Petrochemicals, currently valued at £100m. Beyond that, his business background remains a mystery…

That's how it's done nowadays.

Even at our level we're up against the likes of...

Derby County. Owned by Mel Morris. He backed King Digital - creator of Candy Crush Saga. When King was sold to Activision Blizzard, Morris collected £450 million. He chaired King from 2003 on. Shortly after leaving his flooring firm, he developed and then sold a dating website called uDate for £100 million.

I'm afraid the days of t'local lad made good are long over.

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

If we could achieve what Stokes done in the past decade Id be over the moon

Over the moon to watch us play the majority of our football in the Scottish league like Anthony you mean?
A comma btl. A simple flippn' comma would have saved us all this hassle.
What's the matter with folk round here?

 

[Hartley Hare]

Stoke have had their time at the top table, just like Aston Villa, Norwich, now Sunderland and Charlton before.

HH

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

Stoke have had their time at the top table, just like Aston Villa, Norwich, now Sunderland and Charlton before.

HH

I must have missed their relegation then. You need to get in touch with the Prem and tell them they've got the fixture list wrong.

 

[Davie Blade]

You can say all you want about Clough, but he did a steady job at Derby, but the fans just wouldn't wait.

I doubt there's one FL manager in modern times who has survived that long with his such a record..
Chuff's managerial record at Derby was just appalling It is ONLY 1.22 points per game- this for nearly 5 years work!!
For such a big club it was woeful.

Derby were way to patient with chuff. Sacked when they were 14th a country mile away from ever looking a decent outfit they finished the season 3rd under McClaren.
A rapid vast improvement, just like we got; thank fuck we weren't stupidly patient with him.

 

[S64 Blade]

As another poster has stated, we need to follow our own model and use bits from other clubs for inspiration.

The way how I see it now, is that the club is in a fairly unique position of being a real local team. From top to bottom, the club is filled with United fans who understand what the club is about. This should not be underestimated.

Being an idealist, I'd love the club to continue to progress the academy and ensure it continues to be very well run. There should not be a compromise here. I'd also like us to get tougher on transfers externally, which we are also doing. Spurs are a club we should be looking at for inspiration, albeit on a smaller scale. 5-10 years ago they were probably on a par with someone like Everton, but have managed to kick on much better.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I'd rather watch an endless loop of Miranda than watch stoke even if I lived in stoke the least interesting place outside the sea of tranquillity

Fuck me mate, you sure? That's a pretty bold statement.

One for the Twats thread probably but the only time I'd watch that talentless upper class cunt is if she was covered in petrol and a naked Eva Longoria was chasing her with a flame thrower....

 

[BushBlade]

It used to be the "Charlton" way.

Looking at both clubs it comes down to a decent manager or managers with Stoke as Pullis started it all off.............and we have one now.

Can CW & AK do it at this level - time will tell, but they've got my vote - we just need patience I suppose?

You can say all you want about Clough, but he did a steady job at Derby, but the fans just wouldn't wait.

Can we Blades hold our nerve?

UTB

Derby's problem was that their fans expected promotion but their owners at the time could only fund a bottom eight budget.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

The way how I see it now, is that the club is in a fairly unique position of being a real local team. From top to bottom, the club is filled with United fans who understand what the club is about. This should not be underestimated.
r.

At the risk of being devil's advocate, how many of our current first team squad came through our academy? Even Brooks we stole from Man City. How many of our current players are from Sheffield? How 'local' are we?

And whilst I'm being awkward - can't every club say they're filled with fans who understand the club? And what difference does that make anyway. Roman Abramovich isn't from West London. Pep Guardiola never stood on the Kippax. I assume they're doing a half decent job...

I get your point, but I think its typical fan hysteria who want their club to be filled with 'local lads' when the reality is, fans couldn't care less where the players come from so long as they're playing well and winning. Loathe the cnuts over at S6 all you want, but I'd rather be challenging for the Premiership with a team of £million players than tottering along with a team stocked full of lads from South Yorkshire...

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

At the risk of being devil's advocate, how many of our current first team squad came through our academy? Even Brooks we stole from Man City. How many of our current players are from Sheffield? How 'local' are we?

And whilst I'm being awkward - can't every club say they're filled with fans who understand the club? And what difference does that make anyway. Roman Abramovich isn't from West London. Pep Guardiola never stood on the Kippax. I assume they're doing a half decent job...

I get your point, but I think its typical fan hysteria who want their club to be filled with 'local lads' when the reality is, fans couldn't care less where the players come from so long as they're playing well and winning. Loathe the cnuts over at S6 all you want, but I'd rather be challenging for the Premiership with a team of £million players than tottering along with a team stocked full of lads from South Yorkshire...

I could manage Chelsea and Man City and make a decent fist of it.

At that level of spending and finance, that little 'edge' that the connections talked about can give are meaningless. But when you're lumped in with loads of clubs, it can offer that something even if it's only coming the manager and captain.

 

[blade too long]

Over the moon to watch us play the majority of our football in the Scottish league like Anthony you mean?
A comma btl. A simple flippn' comma would have saved us all this hassle.
What's the matter with folk round here?

dont need a comma , its a footballing term
like when we say we don,t have any more Curries or the Woodwards anymore doesnt intimate there were 2 alan woodwards or woodward,s in this case

 

[Hartley Hare]

I must have missed their relegation then. You need to get in touch with the Prem and tell them they've got the fixture list wrong.

Dear Mr Prem,

You have got the fixture list wrong because my mate Sean said so.

Thought you should know.

Bye,

HH

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

Dear Mr Prem,

You have got the fixture list wrong because my mate Sean said so.

Thought you should know.

Bye,

HH

Dear Mr Prem,

Please ignore that letter from my mate HH because he's telling porkies.
HE got it wrong cos he said Stoke had had their day like some other shitty clubs that have got binned out of your league but they haven't have they? I know that they are still in your league but he dosen't so blame him not me.

Thanks SBT.

PS When we go up next season again and we are in your league please don't act like a bunch of cunts like you did last time over those cockney bastards and that illegal jug eared cunt.

Respectfully yours etc.

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

We should take lessons from Levi at Spuds. No shrinking violet he
Think of a value, double or treble it and tell the buyers to take it or leave it

... Or when he's buying, say to the players current club " he's obviously a pile of shite but we'll do you a favour and take him off your hands for the price of a hot cross bun"

Of course, no successful business man would fall for that ........... would they ?

 

[Sirius]

He can afford to!

Indeed he can but it works for them

 

[1973Blade]

I remember the year they were promoted they were 3-0 up at Bramall Lane and outplaying us. United fans were outraged at how humiliating it was to be outclassed by Stoke. They have done fantastically well to maintain their Premier League status, which apart from the first season I don't think has been seriously threatened.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

As another poster has stated, we need to follow our own model and use bits from other clubs for inspiration.

The way how I see it now, is that the club is in a fairly unique position of being a real local team. From top to bottom, the club is filled with United fans who understand what the club is about. This should not be underestimated.

Being an idealist, I'd love the club to continue to progress the academy and ensure it continues to be very well run. There should not be a compromise here. I'd also like us to get tougher on transfers externally, which we are also doing. Spurs are a club we should be looking at for inspiration, albeit on a smaller scale. 5-10 years ago they were probably on a par with someone like Everton, but have managed to kick on much better.

Some good points there. I think the local factor is important too. The game used to be like this at one time but big money changed all that. Maybe this is the anti-dote? Local pride and passion to overcome pounds spent. It would be nice to think so. To think that we could create a club which players just simply loved playing for so much that they'd not want to go elsewhere, even for more money, but that won't be easy to do.

I didn't quite understand what you meant when you said "get tougher on transfers externally". Do you mean incoming or outgoing, or both? Do you mean we should be willing to pay more or pay less?

Personally I think our willingness and ability to compete in the transfer market is a limiting factor. I think Wilder is doing a fantastic job of working within those constraints, but he will only be able to take the club so far without having a bit more financial clout at his elbow. This is the elephant in the room for me. I'm not suggesting for one moment we should be spraying £8M here and £10M there for players at this level - I think that's ridiculous and not value for money at all. But a bit more flexibility to deal in the transfer market and ensure we capture the right players before they are snapped up by rivals will be important to take us on to the next level.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

I remember the year they were promoted they were 3-0 up at Bramall Lane and outplaying us. United fans were outraged at how humiliating it was to be outclassed by Stoke. They have done fantastically well to maintain their Premier League status, which apart from the first season I don't think has been seriously threatened.

I remember it well too. It was seen by many Blades as being humiliation, "FFS if we can't beat Stoke", was the common theme.

Stoke City were a mainstay of the old First Division when I first began watching (as were Coventry). I remember them coming to Sheffield for the semi-final of the FA Cup, versus Arsenal, that must have been late 1960's or early 1970's. I remember us playing them in our first season back in the old First division, back in 1970/71 season. I can still remember many details from that game. They were a horrible, physical, side. Dennis Smith was a very hard man, but they had some skilful players too, like Mike Pejic, Jimmy Greenhoff.

Found this on wiki, re Dennis Smith - quite interesting for us older guys who remember him:

During Smith's 14 seasons with Stoke, he became known for his fearless mentality which led to him sustaining a large number of injuries.[8] These included five broken legs, breaking his nose four times, a cracked ankle, broken collar bone, chipped spine, breaking most of his fingers and toes and needing more than 200 stitches.[46] The sequence saw him named in the Guinness Book of Records as the most injured man in football.[7]Early into his career Smith soon developed a reputation as a "hard player", who would launch himself at opponents determined to either block a shot and win the ball, which is how he picked up most of his injuries.[7] He was known as Stoke's "hitman", and relished going toe to toe with the biggest and most feared opposition players.[14]

He would generally man-mark the opposition's playmaker or major goalscoring threat.[47] He was a highly effective tackler, able to either flatten opposition players or to quickly take the ball off their toes.[48] After the tackle from behind was outlawed he adapted to the rule change by making hard challenges from the side.[49] Manager Tony Waddington said that "His qualities were his tackling strength and his courage. On the ball he just did what he could do, but he also had a tremendous ability to read the game."[50]


We beat them 3-0 on that day. I remember it well. It was great to witness that because not only was it a case of "the football team" beating "the team of cloggers" but it also reinforced that this Sheffield United side were capable of holding their own in the old First division. Something that many pundits had said we would not be able to do, following promotion from the 2nd division the previous season. They said it was, "too big a step up" for a team largely of home grown players with a few cheap buys scattered amongst them. Does any of this sound familiar btw?

 

[Silent Blade]

. I remember us playing them in our first season back in the old First division, back in 1970/71 season. I can still remember many details from that game. They were a horrible, physical, side. Dennis Smith was a very hard man, but they had some skilful players too, like Mike Pejic, Jimmy Greenhoff.


We beat them 3-0 on that day. I remember it well.

It was 1971/72 season. We lost 3-2 at home, drew 2-2 away

 

[S64 Blade]

I didn't quite understand what you meant when you said "get tougher on transfers externally". Do you mean incoming or outgoing, or both? Do you mean we should be willing to pay more or pay less?

Sorry, it wasn't that clear reading it back.

I guess both, but more so outgoing. Look how Levy does business at Spurs.

 

[BushBlade]

Sorry, it wasn't that clear reading it back.

I guess both, but more so outgoing. Look how Levy does business at Spurs.

He puts finance above football?

 

[S64 Blade]

He puts finance above football?

That's debatable.

Spurs have finished 2nd and 3rd in the last two seasons. When he became chairman in the early 00s, they were finishing 10th downwards. They've pretty much been on an upwards trajectory since.

 

[BushBlade]

That's debatable.

Spurs have finished 2nd and 3rd in the last two seasons. When he became chairman in the early 00s, they were finishing 10th downwards.

Im just quoting what a lot of Spurs supporters say. Spurs were the Man U of the south when I was young so they were seriously underachieving during the Sugar years.

They get good money for their best players but they also waste a lot on incoming players such as Soldaldo, Jansen, Sissoko.

What is it that they do that we can learn from and how do they do it?

 

[S64 Blade]

Im just quoting what a lot of Spurs supporters say. Spurs were the Man U of the south when I was young so they were seriously underachieving during the Sugar years.

They get good money for their best players but they also waste a lot on incoming players such as Soldaldo, Jansen, Sissoko.

What is it that they do that we can learn from and how do they do it?

Ah fair enough.

As I said, more so outgoing dealings. Look how they have held out for the maximum amount of income over the years from the sales of Walker, Bale etc. Their salary cap doesn't seem to be too much of an issue, however I guess they do need to break or change it if they want to win the league. A good way to progress to this point they're now at though, must have saved them millions over the years and they've got to title contenders.

Yes, they've made some poor signings like Jansen, but then name a club that hasn't? Soldado and Sissoko were probably ones you'd expect to have done well, but for whatever reason it didn't work out. They've also brought players in who are now key to their success from lower down - Alli, Rose, Walker before he left etc. Which is what we are doing.

 

[BushBlade]

Ah fair enough.

As I said, more so outgoing dealings. Look how they have held out for the maximum amount of income over the years from the sales of Walker, Bale etc. Their salary cap doesn't seem to be too much of an issue, however I guess they do need to break or change it if they want to win the league. A good way to progress to this point they're now at though, must have saved them millions over the years and they've got to title contenders.

Yes, they've made some poor signings like Jansen, but then name a club that hasn't? Soldado and Sissoko were probably ones you'd expect to have done well, but for whatever reason it didn't work out. They've also brought players in who are now key to their success from lower down - Alli, Walker before he left etc. Which is what we are doing.

They've also invested a huge amount in their academy.
The players they have held out on transfer fees for have been in high demand. What they do is to have a relatively low basic wage but good appearance bonuses so if the players play regularly they still earn decent money. Not Real/Man U type money but decent nonetheless. And they keep offering new contracts and pay rises to make sure their best players are on long contracts. So when they do sell them, there are plenty of takers which pushes the price up.

Spurs fans would argue that on three occasions over the last few seasons they could have won the league if they'd done better business in the transfer market. My response is usually STFU and try L1 for six years.