CONFIRMED Ryan Leonard

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We might not like it but their chairman has played a blinder here.

He's had the bottle to hold on to a player (even one that's handed in a transfer request) because he wants more money for him. We all know there's a price you sell at and we haven't met it or given them sufficient money to make it worth risking losing someone for free.

Look at it like this would you pay a £500k loan fee for someone who could prove crucial to promotion?

Worst case is they lose him for free - Best case they go up AND keep their best player.

Hope we remember this next time someone comes sniffing round a player - you don't have to sell just because someone is interested and fancies a move.
 
Bladeinleeds said:
We might not like it but their chairman has played a blinder here.

He's had the bottle to hold on to a player (even one that's handed in a transfer request) because he wants more money for him. We all know there's a price you sell at and we haven't met it or given them sufficient money to make it worth risking losing someone for free.

Look at it like this would you pay a £500k loan fee for someone who could prove crucial to promotion?

Worst case is they lose him for free - Best case they go up AND keep their best player.

Hope we remember this next time someone comes sniffing round a player - you don't have to sell just because someone is interested and fancies a move.
Click to expand...

The flip side of this particular coin is that Southend remain in Lg 1, and whatever reasonable fee they could have negotiated, especially for a player in the last year of his contract, they lose a player for next to nothing, and in doing so they are weakened, underlining their status of being Lg 1 from top to tail.
 
itsinyerblood said:
The flip side of this particular coin is that Southend remain in Lg 1, and whatever reasonable fee they could have negotiated, especially for a player in the last year of his contract, they lose a player for next to nothing, and in doing so they are weakened, underlining their status of being Lg 1 from top to tail.
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My point was more along the lines of - Our fee is not sufficient to get them a like for like replacement of the same quality.

My view is that He's chancing his arm to give them the best chance of promotion by keeping his top asset. - That's why I likened it to paying a one off loan fee to have the player for a year.... would it have been value for money to pay £500k for Sharpy on loan last year even if we only kept him for 12 months? My view is yes and it didn't exactly work for us for 6 years selling the crown jewels and weakening the side.
 
Bladeinleeds said:
We might not like it but their chairman has played a blinder here.

He's had the bottle to hold on to a player (even one that's handed in a transfer request) because he wants more money for him. We all know there's a price you sell at and we haven't met it or given them sufficient money to make it worth risking losing someone for free.

Look at it like this would you pay a £500k loan fee for someone who could prove crucial to promotion?

Worst case is they lose him for free - Best case they go up AND keep their best player.

Hope we remember this next time someone comes sniffing round a player - you don't have to sell just because someone is interested and fancies a move.
Click to expand...
I'm fairly sure we would and have rejected bids for our players at the level we're quoted as offering. I don't recall us selling any players we wanted to keep for around £600k. Not since Brown and that was years ago and he only had six months on his contract.
 
Bladeinleeds said:
My point was more along the lines of - Our fee is not sufficient to get them a like for like replacement of the same quality.

My view is that He's chancing his arm to give them the best chance of promotion by keeping his top asset. - That's why I likened it to paying a one off loan fee to have the player for a year.... would it have been value for money to pay £500k for Sharpy on loan last year even if we only kept him for 12 months? My view is yes and it didn't exactly work for us for 6 years selling the crown jewels and weakening the side.
Click to expand...

I agree about the six years in question, but this was pre-Wilder, the less said the better. There's plenty I could add, but suffice it to say that we're in a far better position, mainly due to our current management team. No argument either about selling the family jewels, let's hope that selling is something we're a lot more savvy about with Wilder steering our ship.

The figure you quote could strengthen Southend in various positions, something we'll never know as who genuinely cares what Southend do? The interpretation that their Chairman has played a blinder will come back to bite his club's arse. As for their fans, they have a player who's heart isn't 100% committed to their club, sounds like a marriage born out of desperation to me.
 
BushBlade said:
I'm fairly sure we would and have rejected bids for our players at the level we're quoted as offering. I don't recall us selling any players we wanted to keep for around £600k. Not since Brown and that was years ago and he only had six months on his contract.
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In fairness we are a bigger club that southend economically but we've let assets go for c£1m. I'm not naïve - I know the economic reality is we have to sell players. The case in point being DCl and Ramdale probably payed for our recruitment drive and a good chunk of wages for our vastly reduced budget last year.

On Brown - he was probably a £4-5m player with 2 years on his contract at that time. We didn't really invest the money well enough and I think that had we played harder ball i.e we want a £1m+ we probably would have received that and if not we could have kept our best asset and had another crack at promotion with him in the side.

To me that potential £40m plus (in those days) payday was a better bet than £500k which was neither use nor orniment in replacing a player to the same quality as brown.
 
itsinyerblood said:
It happens all the time. I'm sure Southend has exploited the concerns of players in lower league clubs, making them aware of their interest and what could lie ahead for them if they chose to request a move. It's happened to us when clubs with more financial clout have called, and no doubt we've done the same to players who might otherwise remain in a lower division. Ron's walking on thin ice with this one. If he promises the earth and can't deliver then no doubt your player will not look upon future pledges favourably. Also, if Ranger is the best you have to look forward to then you're falling way short of what it'll take to make any sort of realistic promotion challenge. Such is life in professional football. Maybe Len will move, maybe he won't.......but your chairman has not played this as shrewdly as some on here suggest. Soon you may well find that all this tittle tattle will end up with a player of potential being a few months from his contract ending, and then the best you can expect will be.....???
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It's all about opinions though. I think the last time we turned a lower league player's head was with Freddy Eastwood. A great signing but he bought his whole family of travellers with him and we couldn't get in the car park for caravans, so we try to avoid that sort of thing now. As for Ranger, if he finally has got his Bro head out of his arse, then he could be our secret weapon this season (that's the theory). If he does well you could buy him in January. Regardless of where Lenny ends up we will mount a promotion challenge this season. I've got them at 25/1 for auto promotion so it's going to happen ok? No putting the bockers on it with your negative vibes dude.

itsinyerblood said:
The flip side of this particular coin is that Southend remain in Lg 1, and whatever reasonable fee they could have negotiated, especially for a player in the last year of his contract, they lose a player for next to nothing, and in doing so they are weakened, underlining their status of being Lg 1 from top to tail.
Click to expand...
I've thought long and hard about this post so I could pick the right response, got it now, 'and with respect' (you know I don't mean that bit)....................BOLLOCKS
 
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itsinyerblood said:
I agree about the six years in question, but this was pre-Wilder, the less said the better. There's plenty I could add, but suffice it to say that we're in a far better position, mainly due to our current management team. No argument either about selling the family jewels, let's hope that selling is something we're a lot more savvy about with Wilder steering our ship.

The figure you quote could strengthen Southend in various positions, something we'll never know as who genuinely cares what Southend do? The interpretation that their Chairman has played a blinder will come back to bite his club's arse. As for their fans, they have a player who's heart isn't 100% committed to their club, sounds like a marriage born out of desperation to me.
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily disagree with you...

If they get a tax bill or Leonard gets injured in August. He may well cost them a decent pay day and ability to cover a large chunk of the squads wages for the season.

I do think it's an interesting point about a player who isn't committed. I expect this can happen but I do think that 95% of Pros would still knuckle down and give their all to still earn a decent move / help their team mates. I always wonder if this is something we / the board just accept as fact when thinking about selling/keeping players
 
Bladeinleeds said:
In fairness we are a bigger club that southend economically but we've let assets go for c£1m. I'm not naïve - I know the economic reality is we have to sell players. The case in point being DCl and Ramdale probably payed for our recruitment drive and a good chunk of wages for our vastly reduced budget last year.

On Brown - he was probably a £4-5m player with 2 years on his contract at that time. We didn't really invest the money well enough and I think that had we played harder ball i.e we want a £1m+ we probably would have received that and if not we could have kept our best asset and had another crack at promotion with him in the side.

To me that potential £40m plus (in those days) payday was a better bet than £500k which was neither use nor orniment in replacing a player to the same quality as brown.
Click to expand...
I don't understand your comment about Brown. He had six months left on his contract when we sold him. If we hadn't have, he'd have gone on a free. I don't think he looked interested enough to keep him. Once he'd turned down our contract offer before the season started we should have got rid but Warnock said he wanted £5m. That's nowt now but in those days it was a daft amount for a player with a year left on his contract.
 
Rootshallbloke said:
It's all about opinions though. I think the last time we turned a lower league player's head was with Freddy Eastwood. A great signing but he bought his whole family of travellers with him and we couldn't get in the car park for caravans, so we try to avoid that sort of thing now. Regardless of where Lenny ends up we will mount a promotion challenge this season. I've got them at 25/1 for auto promotion so it's going to happen ok? No putting the bockers on it with your negative vibes dude.

No negative vibes my man, just a realistic appraisal of your staff, your ability to compete when injuries come thick and fast, and what your purchasing power tells the rest of your division. I remind you of the 'significant player' old Ron promised? Don't hold your breath on that one. Smoke and mirrors, and retaining Len will be the sum total of this summer's 'serious' promotion challenge.


I've thought long and hard about this post so I could pick the right response, got it now, 'and with respect' (you know I don't mean that bit)....................BOLLOCKS
Click to expand...

Yes, let me add a little sincerity to offset your inability to articulate beyond the word BOLLOCKS........let's see how you begin in your first ten games. If you win at least 6 of 'em then you'll have started well. Then onto the next 10, the same ratio applies. Don't attempt to emulate us though, reaching 70-80 points is difficult enough, let alone a figure like 100 points. Do feel free to write when the writing's on the wall, yours most sincerely :)
 

itsinyerblood said:
Yes, let me add a little sincerity to offset your inability to articulate beyond the word BOLLOCKS........let's see how you begin in your first ten games. If you win at least 6 of 'em then you'll have started well. Then onto the next 10, the same ratio applies. Don't attempt to emulate us though, reaching 70-80 points is difficult enough, let alone a figure like 100 points. Do feel free to write when the writing's on the wall, yours most sincerely :)
Click to expand...
I sometimes find that 'Bollocks' is a far more descriptive statement than a full sentence, as was the case here. Did you type that in blood by the way? And I might just drop you a line if the omens are good, but we say things and then forget to see them through, so who knows.
 
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Bladeinleeds said:
I don't necessarily disagree with you...

If they get a tax bill or Leonard gets injured in August. He may well cost them a decent pay day and ability to cover a large chunk of the squads wages for the season.

I do think it's an interesting point about a player who isn't committed. I expect this can happen but I do think that 95% of Pros would still knuckle down and give their all to still earn a decent move / help their team mates. I always wonder if this is something we / the board just accept as fact when thinking about selling/keeping players
Click to expand...

I can understand any player being moved to consider a transfer that gives him greater financial stability than his current club can afford. I also admire any player prepared to risk another years at a club who aren't exactly renowned with being one of their division's big hitters. Bringing Wilder on board was the shrewdest bit of business this club has done in at least 2-3 decades, and it shows when players meet him, they want to play for him and this club.

You may be right about most professional players. It's in their interest to play well regardless of what happens in future.. Your point about the tax man looming is also a real threat that may take any sale, let alone a fire sale, happen to Southend. Given that possibility I'd question whatever advice Len's agent passed onto him, but time will tell who made the wisest choice.
 
Rootshallbloke said:
I sometimes find that 'Bollocks' is a far more descriptive statement than a full sentence, as was the case here. Did you type that in blood by the way? And I might just drop you a line if the omens are good, but we say things that then forget to see them through, so who knows.
Click to expand...

Blood? Nah, far too precious to waste......if you do achieve promotion I'll wave a flag for you, I just think that with the team's who are relegated from the Championship, and with already decent teams waiting to return to the battle, without significant new talent arriving at Roots Hall retaining one player of potential may not be enough to make promotion happen. Remind me, we're talking about Len, a player who played last season, and you finished where? So this coming season, who has joined Southend to give everyone the boost that's needed to pump-prime your promotion amibitions?
 
itsinyerblood said:
Blood? Nah, far too precious to waste......if you do achieve promotion I'll wave a flag for you, I just think that with the team's who are relegated from the Championship, and with already decent teams waiting to return to the battle, without significant new talent arriving at Roots Hall retaining one player of potential may not be enough to make promotion happen. Remind me, we're talking about Len, a player who played last season, and you finished where? So this coming season, who has joined Southend to give everyone the boost that's needed to pump-prime your promotion amibitions?
Click to expand...
See, you're at it again with all this considered logic to which I have no reasoned counter. But 25/1 is very good odds and I very seldom bet, so it's definitely going to happen. You may gather by this that I'm fresh out of reasoned debate tonight, it's far too humid and hot down here at the moment. As for the new players, there is already a list somewhere on here from one of my shrimper colleagues, and when we get our 'wow' player, watch us go.
 
Whilst you're at it RHB, I understand thunderstorms are heading north. Any hit you yet?

Sorry.On topic cos am worried for Ron's wig.
 
Rootshallbloke said:
See, you're at it again with all this considered logic to which I have no reasoned counter. But 25/1 is very good odds and I very seldom bet, so it's definitely going to happen. You may gather by this that I'm fresh out of reasoned debate tonight, it's far too humid and hot down here at the moment. As for the new players, there is already a list somewhere on here from one of my shrimper colleagues, and when we get our 'wow' player, watch us go.
Click to expand...
I'll be surprised if you're not top six this season. Brown has become a decent manager at this level and seems to have got better with experience.
 
BushBlade said:
Yes, a bit like a circle or even a spiral.
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A wheel within
BushBlade said:
It's going round in a circle. Or possibly a spiral.
Click to expand...

Like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning
On an ever-spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain
Or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel that's turning
Running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping
Past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple
Whirling silently in space.
 
Not yet, expected during the night. I hope they do cos it's just a bit humid at the moment. Don't worry about Ron, he knows how to dodge a shower which is why he hasn't spoken to your guys yet. :)
 
Rootshallbloke said:
Not yet, expected during the night. I hope they do cos it's just a bit humid at the moment. Don't worry about Ron, he knows how to dodge a shower which is why he hasn't spoken to your guys yet. :)
Click to expand...

Arf Arf Chortle!
 

The issue is now that surely Leonard is getting into a price range of £800k to £1m which is in my opinion a range where we should be looking at a better player.
 
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