CONFIRMED Ryan Leonard

[Weasel]

You've just done it yourself, unless you don't consider a mere £400k to be "throwing money at it"

Also

Maybe he should sell some to fund the football club?

Another who completely misses the point I made in my previous post. Wolves are about to spend over £17m on one young player from Portugal who has never played in England. Do I consider this 'throwing money at it'? Yes I do.

Utd having to 'stretch' themselves to spend another £400k (all hypothetically of course) to bring in 2 players who CW probably thinks are important players next season.....No I don't think this is 'throwing money at it'. Clear enough for you? In fact in the general scheme of things, I think £400k for a championship club trying to consolidate itself would be a drop in the ocean. Might be a lot for you and me....not a lot on money for the championship. Get in the real world. The fact that Pinchy agreed with your post should tell you something about what a load of bollox your post was.

And yes, if oir chairman cant fund an extra £400k to secure a couple of players who are CWs first choice targets, then yes perhaps he should move aside from being Utd's chairman. Tbf to the fella he is trying to secure investment apparently. Anyone who seriosuly thinks £400k is a lot of money to a championship club needs to re-assess imo.

 

[Weasel]

If you say yes every time a manager wants an extra 400k I'm saying you won't be rich enough to be a championship club owner for long in your hypothetical scenario.

Your right you wouldn't be. But then again I wouldn't expect CW to be coming to me if I was the chairman every 5 minutes to bring in that 'important player or two. We've just got promoted and we need to strengthen now. Not in 6 months time. Maybe we should just settle for a cheaper option or potentially miss out on CWs first choices then...I presume that you would be happy with that then?

 

[Weasel]

And I certainly won't be surprised to see us stump up a million plus this summer if the right player comes along.

Maybe CW has already identified the 'right player' (or 2) and we need to add a few hundred grand to our original bids to get them. Perhaps, both these players could be obtained for under the million pounds that you mention. That would be good business wouldnt it....

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

We need the right players now,not in January when we could,as a consequence of not getting Wilders targets in for pre season,be mired in a relegation dogfight and a much less attractive destination for potential signings. We would be shafted on fees then as well as clubs would rightly prey on our relative desperation.
Wilder clearly really wants Holmes and Leonard,he would have gone elsewhere by now if not. As has been pointed out,there is a price point at which Charlton and Southend will sell. Add to that the obvious desire of both to move to a huge club going in the right direction and I remain optimistic on both being with us shortly.

 

[Maidenhead]

Another who completely misses the point I made in my previous post. Wolves are about to spend over £17m on one young player from Portugal who has never played in England. Do I consider this 'throwing money at it'? Yes I do.

Utd having to 'stretch' themselves to spend another £400k (all hypothetically of course) to bring in 2 players who CW probably thinks are important players next season.....No I don't think this is 'throwing money at it'. Clear enough for you? In fact in the general scheme of things, I think £400k for a championship club trying to consolidate itself would be a drop in the ocean. Might be a lot for you and me....not a lot on money for the championship. Get in the real world. The fact that Pinchy agreed with your post should tell you something about what a load of bollox your post was.

And yes, if oir chairman cant fund an extra £400k to secure a couple of players who are CWs first choice targets, then yes perhaps he should move aside from being Utd's chairman. Tbf to the fella he is trying to secure investment apparently. Anyone who seriosuly thinks £400k is a lot of money to a championship club needs to re-assess imo.

I'm sure if the right person with enough cash came along then McCabe would step aside.

You didn't say whether or not you think he should sell his assets to fund the football club.

 

[Maidenhead]

We need the right players now,not in January when we could,as a consequence of not getting Wilders targets in for pre season,be mired in a relegation dogfight and a much less attractive destination for potential signings. We would be shafted on fees then as well as clubs would rightly prey on our relative desperation.
Wilder clearly really wants Holmes and Leonard,he would have gone elsewhere by now if not. As has been pointed out,there is a price point at which Charlton and Southend will sell. Add to that the obvious desire of both to move to a huge club going in the right direction and I remain optimistic on both being with us shortly.

Wilder is in control of his own budget.

The decisions are his.

 

[Maidenhead]

Weasel another one that finds it very easy to spend someone else's money

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

Wilder is in control of his own budget.

The decisions are his.

And it would appear so far he has made the right calls. He will have to decide at what point he either sticks or buys regarding Holmes and Leonard. His decision may well have season long implications if got wrong by virtue of how much he clearly rates them both.
As the Clash once said,Should I .........

 

[Tunstall Fred]

And it would appear so far he has made the right calls. He will have to decide at what point he either sticks or buys regarding Holmes and Leonard. His decision may well have season long implications if got wrong by virtue of how much he clearly rates them both.
As the Clash once said,Should I .........

Is the answer Janie Jones?

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

Is the answer Janie Jones?

If she can go deep,box to box,has a great engine and can go all day then yes.
And we both know she could!

 

[Grizzly blade]

Maybe CW has already identified the 'right player' (or 2) and we need to add a few hundred grand to our original bids to get them. Perhaps, both these players could be obtained for under the million pounds that you mention. That would be good business wouldnt it....

And perhaps he identified these two and set a maximum price...or their "value"...with a view to spending another potentially much larger amount on someone else.
So if he goes over his price he has zero chance of securing the other bigger target. Perhaps that is worth sinking in...we have a budget which I'm guessing is nothing startling for a club that has just overspent massively for six seasons and endured huge losses. And Wilder would like that to stretch as far as possible, and that would include securing certain other important players on new contracts....all eating into the same pot.

I keep saying this....but it seems nobody else is swooping in to gazump our bids either. That suggests at the moment their respective clubs values may be on the high side. If another club did come in then we can re evaluate. But at the moment it's a game of nerve, and IMHO we have the upper hand as both players want to come, and at the moment we already have good players in their positions.

So in a nutshell....we aren't desperate, Neither will massively improve our team. We need to keep things tight as we have a set budget and need to get quite a few players in and also shift a few on too. Plus we need to probably save something to entice the odd loan from the premier league.
Our owner...well one of them, has lost tens of millions already, and isn't prepared to keep doing that. He will carry a few million but that's the lot. He's set a budget that I suspect will be fair and allow us to be competitive. It's down to the manager to make the best use of it.

I don't see what the problem is.

 

[Pinchy]

I don't see what the problem is.

Oh you do. Go on, have a think...




















We want a transfer and we want one now.

We Transfers.

Maxwell Maxster's Red and White Army...

 

[FriethBlade]

If Bradley Dack is worth 750k to a first division club who will be lucky to average 15k next season how much do we think Charlton and Southend will value Holmes and Leonard at ?

Very good piece in today's Sunday Times on player valuation and where it's heading to. If they are right ( and historically they have been) we need to keep hold of our young talent for a season or two longer and buy other talent sharpish !

 

[Weasel]

Weasel another one that finds it very easy to spend someone else's money

Maidenhead. Another one that expects the club to act small time and hasn't realised that the finance in football has moved on with the times. Never mind, if we cover our ears and close our eyes we can pretend that where all back in the late 70s and we can still get a Maradona equivalent for £600k. Do you still go to the bar in a pub with a schilling in your hand and expect change?

 

[Grizzly blade]

Maidenhead. Another one that expects the club to act small time and hasn't realised that the finance in football has moved on with the times. Never mind, if we cover our ears and close our eyes we can pretend that where all back in the late 70s and we can still get a Maradona equivalent for £600k. Do you still go to the bar in a pub with a schilling in your hand and expect change?

It's not smalltime to be thrifty with your budget and keep a tight ship.
And the funny thing is, that such players like Maradona are out there for that type of money. We were looking to sign him in particular when he was a relative unknown, based on someone seeing him and spotting the incredible talent he had.
All the best players in the world now would have been in a similar position at some time. But we have to be in a position to exploit it, and I don't think our scouting network extends beyond these shores at the moment. But the talent is out there, it just needs finding

 

[Maidenhead]

Maidenhead. Another one that expects the club to act small time and hasn't realised that the finance in football has moved on with the times. Never mind, if we cover our ears and close our eyes we can pretend that where all back in the late 70s and we can still get a Maradona equivalent for £600k. Do you still go to the bar in a pub with a schilling in your hand and expect change?

In terms of finance we are a small time club.

We need to get best value for money and punch above our weight.

Like it or not, that's the way it is.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

Maidenhead. Another one that expects the club to act small time and hasn't realised that the finance in football has moved on with the times. Never mind, if we cover our ears and close our eyes we can pretend that where all back in the late 70s and we can still get a Maradona equivalent for £600k. Do you still go to the bar in a pub with a schilling in your hand and expect change?

We are a great club with great tradition and an incredibly large and loyal fan base. Unfortunately our owners are tinpot. Clubs up and down the country with little history and half our fan base are enjoying the success that ambitious owners can bring.

 

[andy m]

We are a great club with great tradition and an incredibly large and loyal fan base. Unfortunately our owners are tinpot. Clubs up and down the country with little history and half our fan base are enjoying the success that ambitious owners can bring.

I'd rather be tinpot and honest than all of these clubs that gamble everything and then use administration to get out of paying their debts

 

[BigBed]

Don't see why lots of folk are so bothered about how much players are costing and what were paying for them, it's not our money at the end of the day, it's the club's, whether we gave it them or not, I'm sure everyone there will do us proud again, just like last year, we will get who we get and who Wilder sees fit to be a blade, if we don't get Holmes and Leonard then such is life, I think we're strong enough to hold our own and stay up, I'd just like to see a bit of back up for Moore, I personally think that's the priority position we should be filling before any of the rest.

 

[Weasel]

And perhaps he identified these two and set a maximum price...or their "value"...with a view to spending another potentially much larger amount on someone else.
So if he goes over his price he has zero chance of securing the other bigger target. Perhaps that is worth sinking in...we have a budget which I'm guessing is nothing startling for a club that has just overspent massively for six seasons and endured huge losses. And Wilder would like that to stretch as far as possible, and that would include securing certain other important players on new contracts....all eating into the same pot.

I keep saying this....but it seems nobody else is swooping in to gazump our bids either. That suggests at the moment their respective clubs values may be on the high side. If another club did come in then we can re evaluate. But at the moment it's a game of nerve, and IMHO we have the upper hand as both players want to come, and at the moment we already have good players in their positions.

So in a nutshell....we aren't desperate, Neither will massively improve our team. We need to keep things tight as we have a set budget and need to get quite a few players in and also shift a few on too. Plus we need to probably save something to entice the odd loan from the premier league.
Our owner...well one of them, has lost tens of millions already, and isn't prepared to keep doing that. He will carry a few million but that's the lot. He's set a budget that I suspect will be fair and allow us to be competitive. It's down to the manager to make the best use of it.

I don't see what the problem is.

All fair points to be fair and well reasoned and logical. I dont disagree with the points you make. However, for the sake of clarity i and for the sake of some others who are seemingly hard of understanding permit me to try again...

IF wilder thinks that these two players are going to be potentially important players for us next season (not squad fillers but IMPORTANT players for us), then perhaps the CLUB (not McCabe selling his assets!) should be prepared to help CW to bring in these players IF the fees required are a couple of hundred grand more than what Wilder initially valued them at (provided its not just a case of CW being stubborn).

Of course this could all be a hypothetical situation but my point still stands. I dont think i can put it across any any simpler.
Perhaps this is worth sinking in too

Oh, you mention that neither will massively improve our team....is that a fact or just your opinion? The fact that CW has been chasing them for a while suggests that he thinks they will add an invaluable improvement to the playing squad.

 

[B14Nco]

We are a great club with great tradition and an incredibly large and loyal fan base. Unfortunately our owners are tinpot. Clubs up and down the country with little history and half our fan base are enjoying the success that ambitious owners can bring.

Don't completely disagree... but I do believe we're better with McCabe than taking the risk with some chump with full control that could lose interest.

The Prince is an example of this. He doesn't seem as interested or willing to spunk the money everyone thought he would.

McCabe brings positives e.g. The ground is safe - we shouldn't end up like Coventry.

But also brings negatives e.g. We'll never have anyone (unless Man City rich) that could wrestle power away from him. So isn't really ever going to happen.

 

[Weasel]

In terms of finance we are a small time club.

We need to get best value for money and punch above our weight.

Like it or not, that's the way it is.

I dont think anyone is really expecting Utd to go out this pre season and spend a lot of money. I dont recall reading anywhere that we should be chucking silly money at team strengthening.

The club probably hasn't got that financial capability and i personally wouldnt want Utd to do so. I like to see Utd getting value for money not wasting money like they have been guilty of before at times such as under Robson's tenure. Im comfortable with Utd's having one of the lower wages / transfer budgets in the championship as I have faith in CW to get value for money and still have us doing well.

What some of us are expecting though is the club to find a bit extra IF necessary, if that is required to obtain some of CW's number 1 transfer targets this summer.

Maybe they will if required... or maybe we won't. If its the former then fair play to the board. If it's the latter then Utd would then be acting as the 'small time club' which you referred to in your post and would be trying to get by on the cheap (imo of course).

I dont really give two monkeys whether we end up with Leonard and Holmes. What I do give a monkeys about is that CW gets as many of his first choice transfer targets as possible. Why...cos I rate CW and his footballing judgement.

 

[South Bucks]

Our management are living in a time warp where they think as in earlier seasons they might scrape by on frees and peanuts transfers and still survive in the champs. The world has moved on.
I was optimistic at the end of April we'd strength the core with 3 or 4 good first teamers and snapping up the early bargains and be OK but now it looks like we are falling into our old ways of lets try and get by on the cheap and half spend our way out of it much later on half good players when its too late, this never works.
Where is the quality needed to survive. Sometimes you have to spend an extra 100k on decent players at the right time, not later when we're desperate and they'll cost millions. Its short sighted.

 

[Enigmatic]

Don't see why lots of folk are so bothered about how much players are costing and what were paying for them, it's not our money at the end of the day, it's the club's, whether we gave it them or not

We're bothered because it involves the future financial health of our club, and its ability to operate efficiently. Overpaying on transfers and wages impacts competiveness and can eventually result in the demise of a club in extreme cases.

 

[Enigmatic]

Our management are living in a time warp where they think as in earlier seasons they might scrape by on frees and peanuts transfers and still survive in the champs. The world has moved on.
I was optimistic at the end of April we'd strength the core with 3 or 4 good first teamers and snapping up the early bargains and be OK but now it looks like we are falling into our old ways of lets try and get by on the cheap and half spend our way out of it much later on half good players when its too late, this never works.
Where is the quality needed to survive. Sometimes you have to spend an extra 100k on decent players at the right time, not later when we're desperate and they'll cost millions. Its short sighted.

If anyone here is short-sighted it's you. We're barely in July and have already made 4 decent signings. Things have slowed down, but that's not to say we won't get 3 or 4 good quality first team signings before the transfer window ends. Let's be patient and hold off on the doom and gloom until the window ends and we can properly and fairly assess our transfer dealings, shall we?

 

[Weasel]

Sometimes you have to spend an extra 100k on decent players at the right time, not later when we're desperate and they'll cost millions. Its short sighted.

What is this treason that you speaketh...

Fully agree.

 

[Weasel]

We're bothered because it involves the future financial health of our club, and its ability to operate efficiently. Overpaying on transfers and wages impacts competiveness and can eventually result in the demise of a club in extreme cases.

And we're also bothered that if we don't get a transfer target or two for the sake of finding a few bob extra now...and potentially end up getting poorer results and getting relegated on the back of it then we could really be in the shit again financially. Especially if the Prince and or McCabe then bugger off thinking 'Im not prepared to fund all those annual financial losses again with the club being back in division 1....' Sometimes you have to put a bit more money in to protect your existing investment.

 

[B14Nco]

Our management are living in a time warp where they think as in earlier seasons they might scrape by on frees and peanuts transfers and still survive in the champs. The world has moved on.
I was optimistic at the end of April we'd strength the core with 3 or 4 good first teamers and snapping up the early bargains and be OK but now it looks like we are falling into our old ways of lets try and get by on the cheap and half spend our way out of it much later on half good players when its too late, this never works.
Where is the quality needed to survive. Sometimes you have to spend an extra 100k on decent players at the right time, not later when we're desperate and they'll cost millions. Its short sighted.

I don't get what your point is?

You want our management to spend an extra 100k on the players we've already got?

Why is everyone having a meltdown about players that we've not as yet missed out on?

 

[Pinchy]

I don't get what your point is?

You want our management to spend an extra 100k on the players we've already got?

Why is everyone having a meltdown about players that we've not as yet missed out on?

I think you know the answer...

















In fact, of course, only cap-doffers and agenda merchants think we're going to be in a relegation fight anyway, or say they do, because it's an opportunity to knock their own club, an exercise in which our fans excel, and pretend how great Barnsley and Burton are.

The truth is, we would survive without any additions to last season's squad. The one that outclassed the rest of the league by a mile.

There are no titans in the Championship, and certainly not in the lower half, but accepting that rules out knee-jerking and tantrums and that would never do.

 

[Grizzly blade]

All fair points to be fair and well reasoned and logical. I dont disagree with the points you make. However, for the sake of clarity i and for the sake of some others who are seemingly hard of understanding permit me to try again...

IF wilder thinks that these two players are going to be potentially important players for us next season (not squad fillers but IMPORTANT players for us), then perhaps the CLUB (not McCabe selling his assets!) should be prepared to help CW to bring in these players IF the fees required are a couple of hundred grand more than what Wilder initially valued them at (provided its not just a case of CW being stubborn).

Of course this could all be a hypothetical situation but my point still stands. I dont think i can put it across any any simpler.
Perhaps this is worth sinking in too

Oh, you mention that neither will massively improve our team....is that a fact or just your opinion? The fact that CW has been chasing them for a while suggests that he thinks they will add an invaluable improvement to the playing squad.

Do YOU think those two significantly improve the team we have presently....not the squad, but the team. Does Leonard offer more than Coutts and Fleck? Or Duffy in a five? For me, no and I believe he is seen as a competitor for one of those places the same as O shea was.

And that's what I think Wilder sees here...two
Players who are good enough to get in the team and to compete with the two Who held the spots last season. It drives players to perform to their best and push for better all the time. So for those teo he has their price set as things stand. And that's us being the only actual bidders and also the team the pair want to go to presently.
So as neither will be automatic first choice I don't see Wilder going overboard for them. Neither are "game changer" players, that something special to push the boat out for.

So for me...I don't feel the club are holding out for Wilder here or stopping him bidding more if he wants. I simply think Wilder has decided if they come for what we have offered now...great. If not, we will look at others in the meantime, see what else crops up by August and if these two are still Available and we have the budget left after doing his other business then we may raise our offer.

Who's to say by then that certainly Southend will lose their nerve and do what we have done over the years....cave in and make the call to accept reluctantly.