Nigel adkins

[1danewhitehouse]

Unless you're Bryan Robson.

Well.... yeah.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

You see, I don't.

Putting the awful signings and the poor performances and his clueless tactics apart, the thing that upset me most about Adkins was the bullshit.

Positivity is a good thing and I'm not knocking that. But when it overtakes realism and honesty he's lost me.

I spent too many years in big corporate organisations where folks survive on bullshit and bluster. I hate it and all it stands for.

And I know only too well what it leads to. As it did with Adkins. Absolute abject failure.

I posted on here a few months into last season that I thought he was possibly the worst manager we've ever had.

I stick by that. And by contrast Chris Wilder is right up there with the best managers we've ever had.

Adkins runs Adrian Heath very close .

It's the corporate bullshit from Adkins that did me . The Reading fans forum was the eye opener for me . Da ja vu situation .

The first game at Gillingham 4 - 0 defeat , and the positive excuse was the biscuit . Even this season fans favourate Basham came out with a load of unacceptable bull shit . Manager , players just not wanting to be good enough and a easy ride for all . Total disaster with all being in a comfort zone .

Wilder doing miracles , but fans are fickle , as we all know .

 

[1danewhitehouse]

You see, I don't.

Putting the awful signings and the poor performances and his clueless tactics apart, the thing that upset me most about Adkins was the bullshit.

Positivity is a good thing and I'm not knocking that. But when it overtakes realism and honesty he's lost me.

I spent too many years in big corporate organisations where folks survive on bullshit and bluster. I hate it and all it stands for.

And I know only too well what it leads to. As it did with Adkins. Absolute abject failure.

I posted on here a few months into last season that I thought he was possibly the worst manager we've ever had.

I stick by that. And by contrast Chris Wilder is right up there with the best managers we've ever had.

Well, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree to some extent. Yeah his ways grated given that we were at such a low ebb but personally, I was a fan of what he was trying to achieve (albeit he failed). I still think Robson and Weir were far worse and their careers of lack of kind of support that theory. It could be argued that Adams was also worse but I think Adams suffered a similar problem to Adkins in that the circumstances he inherited were not well suited to his management style. In the old days, where managers got chance to assemble their own squads, I think both would have had a chance of being successful but football being what it is, managers are judged on results no matter how limited their opportunity.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Well, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree to some extent. Yeah his ways grated given that we were at such a low ebb but personally, I was a fan of what he was trying to achieve (albeit he failed). I still think Robson and Weir were far worse and their careers of lack of kind of support that theory. It could be argued that Adams was also worse but I think Adams suffered a similar problem to Adkins in that the circumstances he inherited were not well suited to his management style. In the old days, where managers got chance to assemble their own squads, I think both would have had a chance of being successful but football being what it is, managers are judged on results no matter how limited their opportunity.

Results are be all and end all . Adkins like every manager knows this . You live and die by the sword .

The thing is at the lane , was Adkins told or the deal was he would build a promotion side in 2 to 3 seasons , which was agreed with the board. I have no idea .

I cannot remember what either Adkins or McCabe said when meeting the fans answers and question . If Adkins remit was not to get promotion in the first season but to build , then this answers why he appeared to be so laid back . All speculation but sometimes managers get the boot to take the pressure , flak off the board , especially when renewal of season tickets is coming over the hill .

It's worked out for us with Wilder , but with McCabes record on managers , to me it's more luck than good judgement .

Did Adkins let us down or did we let him down .

Not a Adkins fan , but again all smoke and mirrors .

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Did Adkins let us down or did we let him down .
.

For me it's possibly a case of right man, wrong time. If for example he'd come in in 2014 or 2016 with a relatively blank canvas to work from, he might have had more joy. As it was, with so many of Clough's players contracted and so little room for maneouvre to rebuild, we'd have been better giving Clough another year with his own guys to see if he could finish the job. I'm not convinced he could but he might have got us into the playoffs again. But as I say, all's well that ends well.

 

[LS5 Blade]

Didnt Adkins come out with something along the lines that all the players get a clean sheet and have a chance when he came in?

A review of the goals we conceded the previous season should have made that comment impossible to come out with.

For me he was a clueless prick who thoughts his talents were so great he could turn any set of players into world beaters!

 

[Living In a Fantasy World]

That guy was an absolute clown. Ill give him credit though, he had all of our pants down and conned us into thinking he was the answer.

Not me I was backing Robinson for the job ....

 

[Bladesman]

Didnt Adkins come out with something along the lines that all the players get a clean sheet and have a chance when he came in?

A review of the goals we conceded the previous season should have made that comment impossible to come out with.

For me he was a clueless prick who thoughts his talents were so great he could turn any set of players into world beaters!

When you look at the daft contracts Mal had given the players then even if Adkins came in and said they were all shit, he would have still struggled to offload them.

Pretty much all of the players Clough brought in all were given the option of an extra year on their contract.

 

[grafikhaus]

tbf to nigel, we didn't supply him with a squad full of international quality players to play in league one like southampton did.

and tbf, Wilder hardly inherited a 'squad full of internatonal players'. If anybody has had to clear a mess up/polish turds etc. it's CW. And he did it within four games.

I don't think it's as simple as good managers becoming bad ones overnight. I think these blokes all possess attributes that in the right circumstances would see them be successful. Wen they land on clubs that best compliment their abilities, it clicks and they appear to be very good managers. When it's not a good fit, it can make them appear clueless. The truth probably lies somewhere in between for all of them,

Oh to be sure, for managers (or players) to 'work' at a club requires a certain and undefinable alchemy. But with the majority of managers I don't think it's a case of 'good managers becoming bad ones overnight'. It's more like they have brief periods of success (luck?) in a lifetime of mediocrity and dine out on it until they're consigned to the scrapheap that is 'Goal Rush'. Others, unaccountably, are rarely if ever questioned. Mick McCarthy? Kenny Jackett? Ian Holloway? Then you have bizarre situations where Ranieri is sacked yet a well-known cheat like Allardyce walks seamlessly into another job or an utter failure like David Moyes keeps getting employed. (over 19 years as a manager and won just a Second Division title - Preston - and a Community Shield - Man. U.) Big deal.

Don't ever feel sorry for a football manager.

 

[Kev Gee]

#unitedtogether

 

[Robboblade1889]

He did. While 10 of our 11 players, from memory, just gave up. About 15 mins in.

Pissing wet, freezing cold, "We're fucking shit" ringing from the rusting rafters of the grimiest away stand in the football lg (with possible exceptions of Dingles, Port Vale and pigs), players too ashamed to come closer to fans than 5 yards over halfway line at the end, pies served from the counter of a public toilet.

EDIT: re WWF's current great thread in another section of the forum, Do I remember WIlliam Henry coming on here after that game to take issue, vehemently, with the suggestion that we were, indeed, "fucking shit" ?

I certainly think that night was a port vale at home moment where we hit rock bottom. It's funny because you sometimes go to matches and your view of the game can differ to someone else view everyone I have spoken to since the game says exactly the same I went on my own that night and phoned my wife on way home and said it was the worse I have ever seen us, I actually witnessed 11 players giving up.

I remember looking at Adkins for a long period in the second half and he stepped further and further back into the dugout. He wasnt gesticulating he wasn't angry he just looked like a man who had no idea what to do. I remember at the end the players not coming near the away fans but George long was in the goal at our end, he actually did alright that night and one of the few players who did their job. I shouted and asked him what the hell was going on, the next minute this guy starts having a go at me. Turns out it was George longs dad he thought I was having a go at him but didn't hear what I said. He apologised and told me there were things going on behind the scenes which were not good.

It was an awful night and for me will sum up Adkins reign.

 

[WORKSOPBLADE]

I certainly think that night was a port vale at home moment where we hit rock bottom. It's funny because you sometimes go to matches and your view of the game can differ to someone else view everyone I have spoken to since the game says exactly the same I went on my own that night and phoned my wife on way home and said it was the worse I have ever seen us, I actually witnessed 11 players giving up.

I remember looking at Adkins for a long period in the second half and he stepped further and further back into the dugout. He wasnt gesticulating he wasn't angry he just looked like a man who had no idea what to do. I remember at the end the players not coming near the away fans but George long was in the goal at our end, he actually did alright that night and one of the few players who did their job. I shouted and asked him what the hell was going on, the next minute this guy starts having a go at me. Turns out it was George longs dad he thought I was having a go at him but didn't hear what I said. He apologised and told me there were things going on behind the scenes which were not good.

It was an awful night and for me will sum up Adkins reign.

Bang on ! I also watched him closely that horrible night. I was also at that Port Vale game under Heath. Really good comparison.

 

[Grizzly blade]

For me it's possibly a case of right man, wrong time. If for example he'd come in in 2014 or 2016 with a relatively blank canvas to work from, he might have had more joy. As it was, with so many of Clough's players contracted and so little room for maneouvre to rebuild, we'd have been better giving Clough another year with his own guys to see if he could finish the job. I'm not convinced he could but he might have got us into the playoffs again. But as I say, all's well that ends well.

As I said many times when we got rid of Clough for Adkins.
It was a crazy decision if we weren't going to throw millions at a complete rebuild with no expense spared. Clough had a tight budget, despite what some say, and his signings reflect that.
He didn't hammer the budget and go over, he didn't demand huge increases in wage budgets. He did scout players and did look at players with certain attitudes, while others he brought in who he thought he could control and make into quality players...McNulty and Adams for example. While the gamble on Wallace failed miserably.

Adkins had NO experience or success at building a squad from scratch on a tight budget. All success he had was with other managers players, and then adding to it. Even at Southampton, he wasn't responsible for getting in players, they do things differently there.
I have no hesitation in saying Clough would have done better than Adkins. Whether we would have gone up....who knows but he would have got more from that squad, and saved us from witnessing Hammond and Woolford.
Though it's a bit hypocritical to criticise the board for sacking Clough...but praising for sacking Adkins. The scattergun approach has finally paid off.

 

[grafikhaus]

Wilder doing miracles , but fans are fickle , as we all know .

...but some are more fickle than others. Our crowds, incredibly, have increased over the last three seasons (this seasons home lge. ave. is 20,955 which is bound to increase before the end of the season). Therefore, we don't have a load of 'glory hunters', just a remarkably tolerant and faithful supporter base. Unbelievable, Jeff.

I'm sure that the majority will realise that CW has done no more than halt a 6-season slide and began the long road to recovery. If we're losing at, say Wolves or Forest next season, it'll surely be better than capitulations to Shrewsbury, Crewe etc.

 

[elgoog44]

I think in all reality CW will know if we have a few bad games and go on a dive he will have a few on his back he is after all a blade and will at times have felt the same, but hopefully the majority will give him time, I really think he will always look to change things for the better and make the best decisions for the Club hopefully he can become United's longest serving manager after 9 years or so of constant changes.

 

[BLADES1988]

Not me I was backing Robinson for the job ....

Id rather have Adkins to be honest, I hate fat robbo that much!

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Not me I was backing Robinson for the job ....

Think Robinson would have been on par with Adkins , just completely lost .

Wilder has done what we all would have done , get rid of the losers , negative , shirkers , comfort zone players and start again . Easier said than done and you have to know the personality , character of the players you bring in .

A number of players typified what was wrong at the lane . Also we had no real leaders or winners .

Robinson would have fell into the same trap , mode of management as Adkins . You cannot motivate players who do not want to be motivated and knowing there contract is up , and may be released .

Look where all the players have finished up who were released . Tells us all something about them.

Adkins CV and stock is shot after Reading and Sheffield United .

 

[itsinyerblood]

I think in all reality CW will know if we have a few bad games and go on a dive he will have a few on his back he is after all a blade and will at times have felt the same, but hopefully the majority will give him time, I really think he will always look to change things for the better and make the best decisions for the Club hopefully he can become United's longest serving manager after 9 years or so of constant changes.

Agree with your comments and hope you're proved right. Like everyone I know, clubs, players, and managers, all suffer highs and lows. It's a cliche that most of us spout - give the manager time - but in many cases it's the right thing to do. We'll know more about Wilder and Knill by the end of next season, and whatever happens I hope we find the patience to support the manager. We can be a hostile bunch when we have our backs against the wall (the last 6-7 years are an exception that would test the patience of a saint), but having someone at the helm who searches for a solution is vital. My instinct tells me we have such a man in Wilder. No guarantees of course, but I reckon we're in good hands, and we should show the support necessary for a manager to succeed in his job.

 

[elgoog44]

Agree with your comments and hope you're proved right. Like everyone I know, clubs, players, and managers, all suffer highs and lows. It's a cliche that most of us spout - give the manager time - but in many cases it's the right thing to do. We'll know more about Wilder and Knill by the end of next season, and whatever happens I hope we find the patience to support the manager. We can be a hostile bunch when we have our backs against the wall (the last 6-7 years are an exception that would test the patience of a saint), but having someone at the helm who searches for a solution is vital. My instinct tells me we have such a man in Wilder. No guarantees of course, but I reckon we're in good hands, and we should show the support necessary for a manager to succeed in his job.

If I could give a 100 likes I would, perfectly and beautifully summed up.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

and tbf, Wilder hardly inherited a 'squad full of internatonal players'. If anybody has had to clear a mess up/polish turds etc. it's CW. And he did it within four games.



Oh to be sure, for managers (or players) to 'work' at a club requires a certain and undefinable alchemy. But with the majority of managers I don't think it's a case of 'good managers becoming bad ones overnight'. It's more like they have brief periods of success (luck?) in a lifetime of mediocrity and dine out on it until they're consigned to the scrapheap that is 'Goal Rush'. Others, unaccountably, are rarely if ever questioned. Mick McCarthy? Kenny Jackett? Ian Holloway? Then you have bizarre situations where Ranieri is sacked yet a well-known cheat like Allardyce walks seamlessly into another job or an utter failure like David Moyes keeps getting employed. (over 19 years as a manager and won just a Second Division title - Preston - and a Community Shield - Man. U.) Big deal.

Don't ever feel sorry for a football manager.

Wilder’s inherited circumstances were infinitely better than Adkins’ not because of who he inherited but because of who he didn’t. Wilder had control of a retained list whereby he could immediately dump a dozen players with no financial consequence to the club. Plus we’d already shifted some on like Higdon, Collins, Alcock etc. It meant that Wilder had the opportunity to go out and build a team in his image. Adkins never got that opportunity.


I also don’t believe the following can be put down to luck


1. Back to back titles with Bangor

2. Completing Brian Laws’ work and taking Scunny to the League 1 title.

3. Re-building a Scunny side following relegation and taking them straight back up.

4. Taking Southampton from the bottom half of League 1 to the Premier league in about 20 months.


With us, he failed to make the best of what he inherited without ever getting a chance at managing his own team. No more, no less. It’s worked out well for us because we’ve got Wilder working wonders.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

As I said many times when we got rid of Clough for Adkins.
It was a crazy decision if we weren't going to throw millions at a complete rebuild with no expense spared. Clough had a tight budget, despite what some say, and his signings reflect that.
He didn't hammer the budget and go over, he didn't demand huge increases in wage budgets. He did scout players and did look at players with certain attitudes, while others he brought in who he thought he could control and make into quality players...McNulty and Adams for example. While the gamble on Wallace failed miserably.

Adkins had NO experience or success at building a squad from scratch on a tight budget. All success he had was with other managers players, and then adding to it. Even at Southampton, he wasn't responsible for getting in players, they do things differently there.
I have no hesitation in saying Clough would have done better than Adkins. Whether we would have gone up....who knows but he would have got more from that squad, and saved us from witnessing Hammond and Woolford.
Though it's a bit hypocritical to criticise the board for sacking Clough...but praising for sacking Adkins. The scattergun approach has finally paid off.

I agree with your overall sentiment but would point out that Adkins re-built a Scunny side following relegation and took them back up via the playoffs.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Wilder’s inherited circumstances were infinitely better than Adkins’ not because of who he inherited but because of who he didn’t. Wilder had control of a retained list whereby he could immediately dump a dozen players with no financial consequence to the club. Plus we’d already shifted some on like Higdon, Collins, Alcock etc. It meant that Wilder had the opportunity to go out and build a team in his image. Adkins never got that opportunity.


I also don’t believe the following can be put down to luck


1. Back to back titles with Bangor

2. Completing Brian Laws’ work and taking Scunny to the League 1 title.

3. Re-building a Scunny side following relegation and taking them straight back up.

4. Taking Southampton from the bottom half of League 1 to the Premier league in about 20 months.


With us, he failed to make the best of what he inherited without ever getting a chance at managing his own team. No more, no less. It’s worked out well for us because we’ve got Wilder working wonders.

Some sense in what you say.

Is Adkins as articulate as he makes out or appeared to be . He should have known the remit when he accepted the job , unless he was desperate .

Same issues , problems at Reading or different circumstances . Bearing in mind how much blame also lays with Wilkins and co , his back room staff .

It will be interesting what his next job is , where , and how he gets on . ( if he gets one )

Wilder has been a inspiration to us all in more ways than one .

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Some sense in what you say.

Is Adkins as articulate as he makes out or appeared to be . He should have known the remit when he accepted the job , unless he was desperate .

Same issues , problems at Reading or different circumstances . Bearing in mind how much blame also lays with Wilkins and co , his back room staff .

It will be interesting what his next job is , where , and how he gets on . ( if he gets one )

Wilder has been a inspiration to us all in more ways than one .

Newport County have just sacked Graham Westley. They are doomed now so will need to restart in the summer. Perhaps Adkins needs to start at the bottom to rebuild his reputation.

 

[Tezza1889]

I think sat next to Geoff Stelling would be his best option, he'd be bloody hilarious, he's permatanned, and did somebody once tell me he had a wicked sense of humour... might explain some of his signings..

 

[I should coco]

I also don’t believe the following can be put down to luck


1. Back to back titles with Bangor

2. Completing Brian Laws’ work and taking Scunny to the League 1 title.

3. Re-building a Scunny side following relegation and taking them straight back up.

4. Taking Southampton from the bottom half of League 1 to the Premier league in about 20 months.

You've put together such a compelling case that I think we should sack Wilder and get Adkins back.

FFS man, leave it alone!

 

[1danewhitehouse]

You've put together such a compelling case that I think we should sack Wilder and get Adkins back.

FFS man, leave it alone!

I obviously don't think that and I'm not the one who brought Adkins up. Just trying to bring balance to the discussion is all.

 

[I should coco]

Just trying to bring balance to the discussion is all.

Fair enough, but he is gone, never to return.

I was definitely an Adkins man up until the Scunny game but I am trying to erase last season from the memory.

Let's try and enjoy this one, eh?

 

[Sean Thornton]

I obviously don't think that and I'm not the one who brought Adkins up. Just trying to bring balance to the discussion is all.

WHF, you little tinker....

 

[Tezza1889]

Fair enough, but he is gone, never to return.

I was definitely an Adkins man up until the Scunny game but I am trying to erase last season from the memory.

Let's try and enjoy this one, eh?

I was in the same boat of giving him more time, out of desperation in reality because we were blundering from poor appointment to worse..

Mcabe should have listened to bassett a bit earlier..

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Fair enough, but he is gone, never to return.

I was definitely an Adkins man up until the Scunny game but I am trying to erase last season from the memory.

Let's try and enjoy this one, eh?

Absolutely. I thought sacking Adkins in favour of appointing Wilder would be a mistake and am absolutely delighted to be proven wrong. I'm enjoying this season thoroughly and can't wait for the fancy dress party at MK.