What would it take?

[Dec]

Isn't the average wage in the Championship somewhere around the £5k per week mark?

A squad of 30 players using that average would be a yearly wage bill of £7.8million.

I'd imagine we'd have to aim to fork out double that figure to realistically expect a challenge for the playoffs.

 

[Grecian2000]

Where does this belief that he wouldn't leave for a better job come from?

As far as I can see, two things.

1.He's a dyed in the wool Blade.
Personally don't think this holds much water, EXCEPT I don't think he'd jump mid season in a possible promotion campaign unless it was for a team he believes will be in the Premier League next season.

2. What jobs are available/possible?
Currently only 6 jobs in the PL are filled by UK born managers. Three of these (Bournemouth, Burnley and Palace) have new or "untouchable" managers and one (Sunderland) look relegation fodder. This leaves Stoke and WBA. Are either of these realistic for him?
So, unless there is a sea change in giving home grown managers a chance at the highest level (and the situation at Birmingham suggests the opposite is more likely) then where exactly are these "better jobs" going to come from right now?

 

[GroovyBrad]

I think the issues would arise if we went up and had an average / poor start in the championship, around the same time Premier league struggles start to sack their managers.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Next season will be revealing. At the very least we should be looking to consolidate, strengthen the squad, and then look to the following season. Possibly, wiser footballing heads than mine will appreciate that it might take far longer to consider a serious promotion challenge, but so much depends on the relationship between Wilder and the board, in other words the Prince and McCabe. Wilder is a canny guy, pragmatic, plans well, seems to have a good understanding of the football league, and will need to be a fast learner. Exciting times ahead if Wilder remains at United. Finding the right manager is, as we've seen, a nightmare. Wilder came without many expectations but has excelled in such a short time span. All sorts of variables may impact on what happens during the next few seasons, but if we can hold onto CW I feel we will strengthen our hand considerably.

 

[BushBlade]

I think the issues would arise if we went up and had an average / poor start in the championship, around the same time Premier league struggles start to sack their managers.

When was the last time a PL club came in for a manager who'd got a team promoted from L1 and then struggled in the championship?

 

[BushBlade]

Isn't the average wage in the Championship somewhere around the £5k per week mark?

A squad of 30 players using that average would be a yearly wage bill of £7.8million.

I'd imagine we'd have to aim to fork out double that figure to realistically expect a challenge for the playoffs.

I heard on the radio this morning that Ipswich's owner is subbing the club to the tune of £6m per year. And they have a relatively low budget.

And I'd guess that the clubs with parachute payments have wage bills of well over £20m, probably more in some cases. I heard yesterday that Villa have a wage bill greater than most foreign top level sides.

That's what we're up against.

 

[I should coco]

That's what we're up against.

Nah mate.

Remember what the Housemartins said:

"And when you see a cane I see a crook
And when you see a crowd I see a flock
It's sheep we're up against
Sheep we're up against"

 

[JJBlade]

Out of interest, what do you think showing ambition would be from our board? What kind of transfer funds and wage bill would satisfy the fans?

Doesn't have to be anything crazy
But, I'd like to see the club moan less about wages, high players wages are here, they're not going to go away.
We should target out of contract players or almost out of contract players who have performed well and pay them good wages with what's saved on huge transfer fees

You can't have it both ways, large transfer fees will almost certainly mean large wages
No transfer fee can mean large-ish wages without so much of the initial outlay

 

[JJBlade]

The first thing to do is get promoted,
The second is to establish ourselves as a Championship team, andThird season push for the play offs

If we arrive in the Championship and plead poverty and allow out targets to join other struggling clubs or worse still ambitious League One clubs, then they'll be trouble at t'Mill

 

[derryblade]

CW is doing a great job at the minute and if he goes on to gain promotion he will have achieved what other managers have failed to do since our relegation. The Championship will offer him and the owners a different set of challenges can they meet them who knows. Managers are judged on results and CW knows that, some fans were calling for a longer contract for NC and that went tits up so I will just enjoy the present as we all know football fortunes can change in the blink of an eye.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Lots of potential issues and problems to confront should we finally get promoted. Presumably these will have been considered and discussed by the Lane hierarchy and plans will have been made. It all depends on what the board - the Prince I presume? - is prepared to contribute in order to make this club a Premiership side. The attractions and financial returns are obvious, so are the obligations that come with signing players fit for purpose.

A new world awaits, one where the brave can find the rewards they seek, and the overly cautious are left behind while other, more ambitious clubs set the pace. As has been commented on, within the Premiership there are levels that support clubs without the clout of Man Utd, Chelsea, or Man City. We could easily find our place within one of these levels, and with the rewards that are now within reach of those who are now members of this club we could turn our fortunes around. A thought that I'm sure many clubs consider as they seek to achieve promotion from the Championship. I'm not being fanciful, but the question I ask myself is this; what do we exist for? To maintain the bricks and mortar, bring in a few reasonable players on loans, actually sign one or two to suggest we're ambitious within the context of Division 1 or the Championship at best? I certainly don't want us to accumulate debt that will swamp us and disable any chance of progressing. But I do want to see a level of ambition that I've seen from the likes of Bournemouth. I have the utmost respect for what they've achieved, as well as the players they've managed to sign. Could we emulate what they've managed to create? "Why not". is my answer.

I'm someone who, by nature, prefers to look problems in the eye and then find solutions where needed. So it should be with the club I support. Until Wilder was appointed I genuinely had resigned myself to the view that we might never, or at least for a decade or two, find the resolve to actually consider why we exist. I hope that is what's being asked within SUFC as we move forward this season.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

We,ll never get to close to a wage bill of 25-30 million in the Championship .

No, but if a fan was expecting top 6 next season that's what it would take. I believe we were up at the £20 million mark last time we were "going for it" in the Championship.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

As far as I can see, two things.

1.He's a dyed in the wool Blade.
Personally don't think this holds much water, EXCEPT I don't think he'd jump mid season in a possible promotion campaign unless it was for a team he believes will be in the Premier League next season.

2. What jobs are available/possible?
Currently only 6 jobs in the PL are filled by UK born managers. Three of these (Bournemouth, Burnley and Palace) have new or "untouchable" managers and one (Sunderland) look relegation fodder. This leaves Stoke and WBA. Are either of these realistic for him?
So, unless there is a sea change in giving home grown managers a chance at the highest level (and the situation at Birmingham suggests the opposite is more likely) then where exactly are these "better jobs" going to come from right now?

I largely agree, however a successful couple of season will bring bigger interest from mid table sides in the Premiership.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Isn't the average wage in the Championship somewhere around the £5k per week mark?

A squad of 30 players using that average would be a yearly wage bill of £7.8million.

I'd imagine we'd have to aim to fork out double that figure to realistically expect a challenge for the playoffs.

I'd be interested where the 5k/7.8m average comes from because we aren't hugely off that at the moment. I would add that the average of the top 10 teams would be massively higher than the rest but I can see it being as low as that. Newcastle alone must have a £50 million plus wage bill easily and we were paying the likes of Ched 20k/week the last time we were there.

 

[Grecian2000]

I largely agree, however a successful couple of season will bring bigger interest from mid table sides in the Premiership.

Indeed it might, just thought we were talking about current rather than future scenarios. Can't really believe anyone would seriously suggest he's here for "life". Football is not like that for anyone anymore.

 

[BushBlade]

I largely agree, however a successful couple of season will bring bigger interest from mid table sides in the Premiership.

I've asked this already but no one's answered so I'll ask you instead. When was the last time an English mid table championship manager got a job in the PL?

 

[Champagneblade]

Topping the 3rd division table and he has the backing of the fans so long as he's winning.
If we manage to get promoted then all that will change, and let's be honest he won't be able to test himself at anywhere near the highest level with us, we just don't have the backing.
I'd say we're OK for the moment but if he's really successful in moving us up the Championship then offers from established Premiership sides will be too difficult to turn down, plus others with deeper pockets than our own, and no one should blame him.
But this assumption of blind loyalty to the detriment of his own career seems a bit OTT.

To be fair though, your average manager of the club:
Doesn't support them
Hasn't played for them as a youngster
Been a ball boy
Played for the 1st team
Worn the arm band
Got promoted with them
Watched them with the fans when not selected
Lives in the city

To me, Wilder is the exception. Unless a Man U, a Spurs, an Arsenal, a Chelsea, a Man City or a Liverpool comes for him, then I don't think he'd go.

I genuinely think he'd back himself to get United promoted to the top level and be able to surpass those clubs smaller than us but lording it over us like Palace, Boro, West Brom, Stoke etc etc.

I hope he will be a Blade for a long time to come!

 

[I should coco]

When was the last time an English mid table championship manager got a job in the PL?

Easy that one, the answer is 3/1/17!

Paul Clement was managing at Derby in the Championship as recently as 8/2/16. He is now at Swansea who are (just) a Premier League club.

Don't you just love the smart arse.

 

[GroovyBrad]

When was the last time a PL club came in for a manager who'd got a team promoted from L1 and then struggled in the championship?

Off the top of my head I am not sure, I know Sunderland came in for Di Canio when left Swindon and he never took them up, just because it has never happened before does not mean it will never happen. Wilder's stock will be high if he takes us up, and if a team like Newcastle, West Brom, Hull etc are struggling, I would not be surprised if they came knocking

 

[BushBlade]

Off the top of my head I am not sure, I know Sunderland came in for Di Canio when left Swindon and he never took them up, just because it has never happened before does not mean it will never happen. Wilder's stock will be high if he takes us up, and if a team like Newcastle, West Brom, Hull etc are struggling, I would not be surprised if they came knocking

No, it's not unheard of but its not very common, particularly with managers who weren't big name players. It seems clubs would rather go for someone like Zola, who was a great player but a shit manager, over a decent English manager.

 

[BushBlade]

Easy that one, the answer is 3/1/17!

Paul Clement was managing at Derby in the Championship as recently as 8/2/16. He is now at Swansea who are (just) a Premier League club.

Don't you just love the smart arse.

I thought of that but he didn't get the job because he spent a bit of time managing Derby, nor was he recruited straight from Derby but came from Bayern Munich where he was assistant manager.

I'm interested in situations comparable to that which CW is in, or would be in if we go up.

 

[zablade]

If he isn't supported during the summer transfer window, whichever division we are in, then he could be tempted away.

I think it would take someone with Premier League parachute payments burning a hole to make him consider it though.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I've asked this already but no one's answered so I'll ask you instead. When was the last time an English mid table championship manager got a job in the PL?

It's a fair point, however do you think it would only be PL team who could tempt him or be interested if he did well with us?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

To be fair though, your average manager of the club:
Doesn't support them
Hasn't played for them as a youngster
Been a ball boy
Played for the 1st team
Worn the arm band
Got promoted with them
Watched them with the fans when not selected
Lives in the city

To me, Wilder is the exception. Unless a Man U, a Spurs, an Arsenal, a Chelsea, a Man City or a Liverpool comes for him, then I don't think he'd go.

I genuinely think he'd back himself to get United promoted to the top level and be able to surpass those clubs smaller than us but lording it over us like Palace, Boro, West Brom, Stoke etc etc.

I hope he will be a Blade for a long time to come!

I hope you're right Champers, unfortunately while the likes of those clubs are in the Premiership they are a bigger pull to most.
Of course if he's able somehow to perform miracles and get us up, then I'd tend to agree.

 

[ucandomagic]

I reckon that working for us has a Catch 22 situation for Tufty.

He ain't going to be offered a top 7 Prem job by any of them.

If he's successful with us, and continues to be so, he could be offered a top Champ, lower Prem Club but because he'll think that he can get there with us, and that is his dream, he won't go.

On the other hand, if he ceases to be successful with us he won't be offered anything much better anyway.

If somebody offered you free tickets and hospitality for life to change clubs would you go?

If somebody offered you money to go and support another club, would you take it? I hope not, not unless you were totally broke.

I reckon Tufty's the same - he really is one of our own.

UTB

 

[BushBlade]

It's a fair point, however do you think it would only be PL team who could tempt him or be interested if he did well with us?

No, my biggest fear is one that's recently been relegated and has parachute payments. But again, they seem to either go for some random foreigner, a well known ex-player or someone who's won promotion before, like Bruce.

I think that once we're up, there won't be too many clubs not in the above category that would appeal to CW. They're not really bigger than us and the ones that one could argue are bigger tend to have dodgy owners. Would he really chance his arm at Leeds or similar?

Of course, it's down to the board to keep him happy and give him sufficient funds to, eventually, make us competitive. And, perhaps more importantly, allow him to steer the direction of the club without interference from directors who know no more about professional football than we do. I don't think we need huge amounts of money to get into the top half of the league, given time, but we do need to ensure it's invested in the right areas.

 

[BushBlade]

I reckon that working for us has a Catch 22 situation for Tufty.

He ain't going to be offered a top 7 Prem job by any of them.

If he's successful with us, and continues to be so, he could be offered a top Champ, lower Prem Club but because he'll think that he can get there with us, and that is his dream, he won't go.

On the other hand, if he ceases to be successful with us he won't be offered anything much better anyway.

If somebody offered you free tickets and hospitality for life to change clubs would you go?

If somebody offered you money to go and support another club, would you take it? I hope not, not unless you were totally broke.

I reckon Tufty's the same - he really is one of our own.

UTB

How much am I being offered here and who would I have to support?

 

[Dec]

I'd be interested where the 5k/7.8m average comes from because we aren't hugely off that at the moment. I would add that the average of the top 10 teams would be massively higher than the rest but I can see it being as low as that. Newcastle alone must have a £50 million plus wage bill easily and we were paying the likes of Ched 20k/week the last time we were there.

Remember seeing it somewhere but not sure where. It does sound low though, you're right. I reckon the average is closer to the 10k mark, which would make my other estimations about what we'll need pretty scary.

Let's hope the Prince is up for it and has the wonga...