Kieron Freeman

[sheffielder]

Your right there. Very rarely defends.

You're not far wrong. The bookings he has got are for when he can't be arsed to chase back. Still a work in progress then...

 

[boo radley]

You're not far wrong. The bookings he has got are for when he can't be arsed to chase back. Still a work in progress then...

Can you imagine swapping the two players round in to each others position. There is only one that would come out the "proper footballer".

 

[UnitedBlade]

Whatever happened between Coutts and Wilder after the Rochdale game has probably changed Coutts life. Dropped against Southend, however came on at half time and had a great game. He has not looked back since.

Coutts was an unused sub v Rochdale. He didn't play at all until the second half v Southend. I think it's more likely Wilder had seen enough in training that he could use Coutts and Coutts took his chance. What Wilder started with at the beginning of the season wasn't working. Credit to both it's gone right since then.

 

[Pinchy]

Can you imagine swapping the two players round in to each others position. There is only one that would come out the "proper footballer".

Neither would fare well. Why would you want to imagine it?

You betray, once again, that you are uncomfortable with good football. Your idea of a decent midfielder was, let me think....

Ah yes, this chap:

 

[Pinchy]

I like to see excellent footballers.. i also like to see players earn their money... not stroll around the pitch, not tackling..going missing in games.. generally not giving a fuck because they are still getting paid anyway...

Be a bit boring if we all felt the same way though

It's a bit boring (not to mention bizarre) that people are moaning at an integral part of the best midfield three we've had for a long time.

Very good midfielders can appear stroll around the pitch. They have the speed of foot and mind to find space and time where others don't.

That's why the likes of Doyle and Montgomery, both non-footballers, never strolled. Paul Coutts would run rings around the pair of them.

 

[Grecian2000]

Can you imagine swapping the two players round in to each others position. There is only one that would come out the "proper footballer".

Indeed. Saw that wanker Messi playing in the net once in training. He was shit, never rated him since.

Did you pose the same question to Adkins before last season? Seemed to spend all season wanting to be sure which positions they couldn't play in.

 

[Wooden House]

Indeed. Saw that wanker Messi playing in the net once in training. He was shit, never rated him since.

Did you pose the same question to Adkins before last season? Seemed to spend all season wanting to be sure which positions they couldn't play in.

Swap Billy with O'Connor that'll see who can play!!! What a bizarre statement from Boo Radley

 

[boo radley]

Neither would fare well. Why would you want to imagine it?

You betray, once again, that you are uncomfortable with good football. Your idea of a decent midfielder was, let me think....

Ah yes, this chap:

View attachment 21746

You question why someone questioned his total lack of commitment before this season. Yeah right lets get players in and hang about paying them good money till they feel they can commit. As for the football cone that is what your hero David Weir had them doing. As said before you were quite satisfied from the football we have been served up on the way down to and including the lowest point of last season.

 

[boo radley]

Indeed. Saw that wanker Messi playing in the net once in training. He was shit, never rated him since.

Did you pose the same question to Adkins before last season? Seemed to spend all season wanting to be sure which positions they couldn't play in.

Swap Billy with O'Connor that'll see who can play!!! What a bizarre statement from Boo Radley

So neither of you think that Freeman can play midfield or that he is far more versatile than Coutts. I suggest you watch the video of the game against Bury and then others to see what that lad contributes.

 

[Wooden House]

So neither of you think that Freeman can play midfield or that he is far more versatile than Coutts. I suggest you watch the video of the game against Bury and then others to see what that lad contributes.

What has versatility got to do with it? Bash can play (very well) in a number of positions, I'd still take Coutts over him!!

 

[boo radley]

What has versatility got to do with it? Bash can play (very well) in a number of positions, I'd still take Coutts over him!!

Versatility has everything to do with it. The more versatile you are generally the better footballer you are. If you stand about like one of Pinchys monotone heros then you add nothing Player movement changes the picture for other players to develope the play. OK you'd have Coutts, I'd have Freeman

 

[Grecian2000]

So neither of you think that Freeman can play midfield or that he is far more versatile than Coutts. I suggest you watch the video of the game against Bury and then others to see what that lad contributes.

The original question was regarding improvement not a mention of versatility.
I have no interest in the theory of swapping players into different roles, just play them in their best position works every time for me.
No-one on this thread has said a bad word about Freeman so the idea anyone is decrying his contribution is not even an issue.

 

[Dnblade]

I thought Coutts and Freeman were ok last season...Coutts always looked tidy on the ball and Freeman did well and was one of our better players,then Brayford came back and he was bombed out.
For me it's more the players around them have improved...more options for Coutts to pass the ball and dictate the play,more players like Fleck and Duffy who can also create..better ball retention...It's hard to create and look good in some of the disjointed one paced teams we've seen at times..they just needed better players around them and a Manager who knows how to get the best from them..I think they are doing the same things they were last season for me.

 

[Hodgesleftpeg]

It's a bit boring (not to mention bizarre) that people are moaning at an integral part of the best midfield three we've had for a long time.

Very good midfielders can appear stroll around the pitch. They have the speed of foot and mind to find space and time where others don't.

That's why the likes of Doyle and Montgomery, both non-footballers, never strolled. Paul Coutts would run rings around the pair of them.

So I'm not allowed to say anything about him doing roughly sod all to earn his wages prior to this season then because he's been a revelation?
are you happy with players doing fuck all for their money until the last year of their contract then?

I've never doubted Paul coutts as a footballer .. he just hardly ever showed it until now!!!! - or am I and many others wrong on this?

 

[sitwell]

You question why someone questioned his total lack of commitment before this season. Yeah right lets get players in and hang about paying them good money till they feel they can commit. As for the football cone that is what your hero David Weir had them doing. As said before you were quite satisfied from the football we have been served up on the way down to and including the lowest point of last season.

Hasn't keiran Freeman already stated in public what a good player Coutts is ,also in training and the main problem last season was him having no one to pass to because players didn't want it. Do you just chose not to believe him ? I don't get your problem with Coutts ,do you really not see what a good footballer he is ?

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

It's a bit boring (not to mention bizarre) that people are moaning at an integral part of the best midfield three we've had for a long time.

Very good midfielders can appear stroll around the pitch. They have the speed of foot and mind to find space and time where others don't.

That's why the likes of Doyle and Montgomery, both non-footballers, never strolled. Paul Coutts would run rings around the pair of them.

Very good players do stroll around the pitch with vision , helped by speed of mind and movement . Mousa Dembelle comes to mind mondern day . Others from a previous era , Currie (of course ) , Hudson ,

They stroll but there work rate is first class , even more so , than them who chase around puffing and panting like a Jack Russell achieving nowt .

UTB

 

[boo radley]

Hasn't keiran Freeman already stated in public what a good player Coutts is ,also in training and the main problem last season was him having no one to pass to because players didn't want it. Do you just chose not to believe him ? I don't get your problem with Coutts ,do you really not see what a good footballer he is ?

He is a reasonable footballer made to look better in this side. I'm not putting words into Freemans mouth but he sees it the way you have stated, a lot of us see it somewhat differently. I do not see him as irreplaceable and think there are many at the club who could do his job equally well and given a run in the side somewhat better. As stated in other posts he is improving and I applaud that and am thankful for it. CW pointed out a couple of weeks ago that he has further improvement to make and he is addressing some of those (shooting was one I was very critical of and so was CW) he is now shooting a lot more. He is also getting forward more. quite a few of us did not like the hysteria about how well he was doing because the team was doing well and to suggest game after game that he was some sort of revelation was too much when many other players were doing equally as well if not better and deserved equal credit.
My thoughts about him a few weeks ago was that he was just another Paul Thirlwell. He has gone beyond that now with better movement. There are so many outlets and movement in this side now that it has made his job easier. With the signing of Sam Carruthers and possibly more, the competition for his place and others can only be a good thing for him and the team as a whole.

 

[JohnDenver]

When I watch Coutts I think what an absolute twat he must be to play against. He's one of those blokes with an incredibly strong base, so you can't knock him off his stride, and if you try to it just results in immense pain for you. That and the fact his control is so quick and assured that you can't just nick the ball either.

 

[Bladepicker]

So I'm not allowed to say anything about him doing roughly sod all to earn his wages prior to this season then because he's been a revelation?
are you happy with players doing fuck all for their money until the last year of their contract then?

Of course you are allowed to say it. It is totally wrong though.

As has been pointed out on many occasions, Coutts had many man of the match and other good performances in the last 2 years. He did have some poor games but so did everyone under that clown Adkins - yet Coutts seemed to get it in the neck more than others. As a 'quaterback' or link up type player he will look better in a winning team with good players around him as sitwell says, as they will be able to take advantage of his abilities. Mainly ball retention, spotting a quick pass to switch the play and an ability to receive, control, hold and recycle the ball when under pressure/marked.

His other main trouble had been fitness. However, as well as playing in a better team under a better manager, he has also had is first full pre season for nearly 4 years.

At Preston and Derby before his injury both sets of fans thought he was one of their best players, at a higher level than this. The evidence suggests his major injury was probably more to do with fitness concerns rather than him 'not giving a shit'.

 

[Pierre's PC]

What annoys me about coutts is he seems to have taken the piss out of the club for the first 18 months roughly, that he's been here.. only now, isnt he in the last year of his contract?, is he starting to show a bit.. funny that!!

You mean like a certain ex-player who people seem to be wanting back?

 

[Sirius]

You mean like a certain ex-player who people seem to be wanting back?

No I wouldn't have Hammond back at any price.

 

[I should coco]

Versatility has everything to do with it. The more versatile you are generally the better footballer you are.

I'm reminded of the definition of a utiliity player - 'someone who is shit in all positions'.

I understand your point if you mean a player should be comfortable all over the pitch, but are you really saying Messi or Ronaldo would be better players if they'd played centre half for a few years?

Basham is 'versatile' but I happen to think he'd be a better player for us if we'd left him in the same position for three years. He neither excels at centre half nor in the middle, but he does have undoubted abilities and a great workrate. We haven't done the lad any favours.

 

[boo radley]

I'm reminded of the definition of a utiliity player - 'someone who is shit in all positions'.

I understand your point if you mean a player should be comfortable all over the pitch, but are you really saying Messi or Ronaldo would be better players if they'd played centre half for a few years?

Basham is 'versatile' but I happen to think he'd be a better player for us if we'd left him in the same position for three years. He neither excels at centre half nor in the middle, but he does have undoubted abilities and a great workrate. We haven't done the lad any favours.

Who definition?
What are you mentioning those two for?
As for Bash, That nay be but we do not have the Luxury.

 

[I should coco]

Who definition?
What are you mentioning those two for?
As for Bash, That nay be but we do not have the Luxury.

Its the OED definition of course! I thought the word 'shit' may suggest is was a joke but obviously not.

I mentioned Messi and Ronaldo as the first two players off the top of my head who wouldn't be improved by playing in other positions. That was you general point wasn't it?

Agree with you on Basham, but we would have had a better player had he not been moved around. Do you not see the irony in this in that it is the opposite of your original point?

 

[boo radley]

Its the OED definition of course! I thought the word 'shit' may suggest is was a joke but obviously not.

I mentioned Messi and Ronaldo as the first two players off the top of my head who wouldn't be improved by playing in other positions. That was you general point wasn't it?

Agree with you on Basham, but we would have had a better player had he not been moved around. Do you not see the irony in this in that it is the opposite of your original point?

Ahh thats a joke right
No that was not my point.
No because that was not my point.

 

[Yewsman]

This was what I wrote in May 2016 when Freeman was put on the transfer list when CW arrived:

I always liked Freeman. Not sure about his defending but He always looked good when attacking and I always thought he would have been better as a wide mid field player.

I am happy that I seem to have been correct. I like him even more now. He has definitely got better and improved immensely this season. Playing as a wing back certainly suite him. However in answer to the survey Coutts is the most improved player without doubt. He showed touches of what he could do last season but was clearly not motivated and not fit, either generally or because he was still getting over his previous injury. What's more I think he still has more to offer. I would like top see him running at the defence and taking more shots at goal and contribute more goals. He definitely has the ability and talent to do both. His goal against Swindon was sublime.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

I am happy that I seem to have been correct. I like him even more now. He has definitely got better and improved immensely this season. Playing as a wing back certainly suite him. However in answer to the survey Coutts is the most improved player without doubt. He showed touches of what he could do last season but was clearly not motivated and not fit, either generally or because he was still getting over his previous injury. What's more I think he still has more to offer. I would like top see him running at the defence and taking more shots at goal and contribute more goals. He definitely has the ability and talent to do both. His goal against Swindon was sublime.

Coutts certainly still gets it in the neck . Under Clough and Adkins , if truth be known we all got to the point were we didn't know if we were coming or going , and players appeared to not care a fuck.

The fella is class and now fit , motivated , playing well above league 1 level .

The swagger bit shows a touch of class . A line has been drawn by Wilder , why can't some fans do the same is beyond me . Appreciate his class every time I watch him play . This Sam bloke will be the same and grow with Wilders tactical formations and player requirements.

Let's enjoy for fuck sake . Yewsman is correct.

We have some top class players who DO care a fuck.

 

[BushBlade]

Coutts certainly still gets it in the neck . Under Clough and Adkins , if truth be known we all got to the point were we didn't know if we were coming or going , and players appeared to not care a fuck.

The fella is class and now fit , motivated , playing well above league 1 level .

The swagger bit shows a touch of class . A line has been drawn by Wilder , why can't some fans do the same is beyond me . Appreciate his class every time I watch him play . This Sam bloke will be the same and grow with Wilders tactical formations and player requirements.

Let's enjoy for fuck sake . Yewsman is correct.

We have some top class players who DO care a fuck.

If Adkins wasn't at least partially responsible for the way the players played last season, why did we sack him?

None of the players covered themselves in glory last season. They weren't taking the piss, they were badly managed.

 

[Pinchy]

Of course you are allowed to say it. It is totally wrong though.

As has been pointed out on many occasions, Coutts had many man of the match and other good performances in the last 2 years. He did have some poor games but so did everyone under that clown Adkins - yet Coutts seemed to get it in the neck more than others. As a 'quaterback' or link up type player he will look better in a winning team with good players around him as sitwell says, as they will be able to take advantage of his abilities. Mainly ball retention, spotting a quick pass to switch the play and an ability to receive, control, hold and recycle the ball when under pressure/marked.

His other main trouble had been fitness. However, as well as playing in a better team under a better manager, he has also had is first full pre season for nearly 4 years.

At Preston and Derby before his injury both sets of fans thought he was one of their best players, at a higher level than this. The evidence suggests his major injury was probably more to do with fitness concerns rather than him 'not giving a shit'.

I despair that there is thought to be a discussion to be had about Paul Coutts. He's a quality player and a delight to watch. It is suggested that we have other players who "if we gevemarrun would do his job as well if not better!" I'd like to meet these players. They are concealing their excellence far too much.

Most people accept that Tufty knows what he's doing. I certainly do. The facts are that:

1. From an initial view that Couttsy (as Tufty and I call him) was surplus to requirements, he has turned it round such that he is now at the beating heart of the team.

2. In a recent interview, he praised the win against Bury in circumstances where "arguably our two best players (Couttsy and Duffy) were on the bench"

3. Without any fuss or grand announcements, he has made Paul our vice-captain.

There is no doubt Tufty ❤ Couttsy. So do I. I look forward to many more years of enjoying him stroll around our midfield, probing, passing both short and long, finding time and space like very good players do, dovetailing superbly with other proper footballers. Gerrimsigneduptufty!

 

[Pinchy]

Versatility has everything to do with it. The more versatile you are generally the better footballer you are. If you stand about like one of Pinchys monotone heros then you add nothing Player movement changes the picture for other players to develope the play. OK you'd have Coutts, I'd have Freeman

I'll have both, thanks. On another thread I described KF as a "revelation and a star". He'd be the first to say, though, that he wouldn't match Paul Coutts' quality in midfield, just as Couttsy would undoubtedly bow to KF as a wing-back. They respect each other enormously and would be astonished at a completely artificial and rather odd discussion as to which of them were the "better player" when they complement each other so very well on the pitch.

This barmy, irrelevant issue has sprung up from nowhere. We would do well to allow it to return whence it came. Meantime, Paul Coutts can get on with elegantly pulling the strings in our admirable midfield and Kieran can continue his athletic and tireless forays up and down the right, pausing occasionally to score twice as many goals as our second striker. Now there's a position swap that might be worth discussing...