Our owners

[Houston_Blade]

I do rather like this notion that fans should be more than grateful to owners for paying debts that said owners have run up themselves over years of incompetence....it's a wonderful concept...

Cap duly doffed....

I for one am not defending anything that the board have done and the stupidity around the past decisions is obvious. However what is complete rubbish is saying that money isn't being reinvested.

I've said in the past that if I was McCabe I wouldn't throw good money after bad, I've worked with a football club director who got very lucky and made money buying and selling a large stake in a current L1 club and I would never go anywhere near football with my own money (if I had any). The only option therefore is to sell the odd player at a profit. Frustrating that we can't then immediately go out and buy another for equivalent value but that's not how it works.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Many decent points in your post Poker. I'd add that due to the laxness of the board in allowing Clough far too much freedom, I suspect Wilder's aware of this and ensures that he covers his back at every turn. In Wilder we have a canny, intelligent, and aware manager, someone who knows exactly who we need and ensures we do our best to recruit them.

Could you imagine the meltdown if the board had stopped Clough signing players? Good god we'd have missed out on the next Pele.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I posted back on page one before the post you quoted. I don't know how much credit to give the board for the appointment of Wilder vs. whether they've fallen lucky after a string of poor appointments and mistakes in the running of the club (specifically, Clough being allowed to sign so many poor players without anyone stepping in).

I've been saying since our turn in form how absolutely wrong I was about Wilder and how much I'm loving football right now.

I hope the influence of the changes we've made at boardroom are starting to take effect. I hope that the board have learned some lessons, but those aren't questions that can be answered based on this relatively short term progress. They're things that will be judged based on future outcomes. I don't see how I can give any kind of sensible comment about the board without these considerations.

I agree with all of that AND it's about now. It's a, IMO, great summation of what I'd expect many of us think at the moment. The more the board take in from Widers approach the better and I've said I'm giving the credit to him and Knill at the moment.

Anyway hope we've avoided the possible punch up.

 

[Esablade]

I for one am not defending anything that the board have done and the stupidity around the past decisions is obvious. However what is complete rubbish is saying that money isn't being reinvested.

I've said in the past that if I was McCabe I wouldn't throw good money after bad, I've worked with a football club director who got very lucky and made money buying and selling a large stake in a current L1 club and I would never go anywhere near football with my own money (if I had any). The only option therefore is to sell the odd player at a profit. Frustrating that we can't then immediately go out and buy another for equivalent value but that's not how it works.

True, of course the McCabe family and now HRH have put huge amounts of money into the football club and the infrastructure....my point is that there are no guarantee's of any financial gain by chucking money at a football club, quite the reverse in most cases!

So 'paying your debts' should be the least you should do if you wish to carry on...to claim otherwise is a little disingenuous....if they'd done better they may have had some reward...the buck stops and with the owners...literally...

 

[Sean Thornton]

SB, Unfortunately, IMO, accounts are a bit like legal documents, if you don't stick to fairly rigid conventions, the very simplifications you want can be used to disguise dodgy practices.
Our only hope is that publication of the bare numbers will allow those with the appropriate skill set amongst us to pass comment and raise the alarm should the powers that be try on something really dodgy and/or underhand.

For information purposes for fans the lack of detailed breakdown of certain headings and cost centres leads some - and not always innocently - to claim it could be covering "stuff" up. (despite the accounts being signed of by an independent statutory auditor and no one having any idea what the stuff is other than McCabe must have had it).

Then you have the others who demand a breakdown ignoring the fact Thats it's been made clear one isn't available. This converts into "you don't know" ( obviously true) so anything you say about the accounts isn't accurate either.

The accounts have shown losses. The owners have pumped money in to cover these otherwise we'd be in administration or worse.

 

[Woodwardfan]

If there's any fool who thinks a direct family member of the first king of Saudi doesn't have a pot to piss in ,well there isn't much you could do for them

No paper to wipe their arses with more like ( or wipe their beer glasses with)

 

[Esablade]

For information purposes for fans the lack of detailed breakdown of certain headings and cost centres leads some - and not always innocently - to claim it could be covering "stuff" up. (despite the accounts being signed of by an independent statutory auditor and no one having any idea what the stuff is other than McCabe must have had it).

Then you have the others who demand a breakdown ignoring the fact Thats it's been made clear one isn't available. This converts into "you don't know" ( obviously true) so anything you say about the accounts isn't accurate either.

The accounts have shown losses. The owners have pumped money in to cover these otherwise we'd be in administration or worse.

...well that and the fact that the accounts posted on the SUFC website ( and those which you rather disingenuously quote as 'the club's' accounts) are in fact those of a holding company called Sheffield United Limited ( controlled solely by the McCabes) with total turnover of £310k and not those of Blades Leisure Ltd which is controlled jointly by HRH/McCabe's and is where you'll find all the info you'd expect to find re: running the club : i.e.: wages, sales etc...

 

[I should coco]

...well that and the fact that the accounts posted on the SUFC website ( and those which you rather disingenuously quote as 'the club's' accounts) are in fact those of a holding company called Sheffield United Limited ( controlled solely by the McCabes) with total turnover of £310k and not those of Blades Leisure Ltd which is controlled jointly by HRH/McCabe's and is where you'll find all the info you'd expect to find re: running the club : i.e.: wages, sales etc...

There is no grand cover up. The holding company accounts shown on the website are for shareholders (I'm one) of the old company that previously ran the club. The deal with HRH was that KM and he fund the losses 50/50 as and this was done through a new company. There is no legal requirement for any company to publish its accounts on the web. Many do of course for PR / investor relations reasons, but they don't have to.

What they DO HAVE TO DO is file accounts at Companies House. These are then available to the public to view. If you are that interested get on the Companies house website. So you don't accuse me of being evasive in any way, here is the link to the Blades Leisure information:
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06963761/filing-history

You will need to open the various PDF files.

Can we once and for all stop this 'hidden accounts' line. The accounts are not pretty as they show losses due to the massive wages we are contracted to pay, but they are not hidden.

I genuinely hope this helps to move the conversation on a bit.

 

[Rodley]

McCabe pumps shed loads of money each year to run the club, including but not limited to players wages, overheads, stadium costs, player signings, running the academy. Three million every couple of seasons doesn't get close to sums McCabe will have put in and continues to put in.

But anyway now isn't really the time, we're flying with the best summer recruitment in years and January shaping up well as well. Don't have much appetite for spending hours moaning / arguing about stuff I have limited understanding of.

 

[Leonardo Green]

The monkey/typewriter theory is bunkum, by the way. They would never manage a single sentence correctly; much like some of our contributors...

You are bunkum if you don't understand that theory, the monkey would type every single sentence that ever existed.

 

[Sirius]

Stop it now!

That's two sensible posts on this thread NOT acusing KM of stealing money. This kind of seditious talk will do you no good.

Let's hope one of our regular posters comes along and accuses KM of theft, larceny, fraud and false accounting and then we all know where we stand.

Pointless accusing him of Larceny. Most on here are of the opinion The Larceny Act 1916 was kicked of the Stature Book some years ago, to prevent such vile auusations being made against our leader. Still, for those thus inclined there is still aplenty to get your teeth into

 

[Bladesway]

McCabe pumps shed loads of money each year to run the club, including but not limited to players wages, overheads, stadium costs, player signings, running the academy. Three million every couple of seasons doesn't get close to sums McCabe will have put in and continues to put in.

But anyway now isn't really the time, we're flying with the best summer recruitment in years and January shaping up well as well. Don't have much appetite for spending hours moaning / arguing about stuff I have limited understanding of.

Oh yes you do........

 

[CarlMcBlade]

They kissed many frogs before they got to a prince.

 

[South Bucks]

There is no grand cover up. The holding company accounts shown on the website are for shareholders (I'm one) of the old company that previously ran the club. The deal with HRH was that KM and he fund the losses 50/50 as and this was done through a new company. There is no legal requirement for any company to publish its accounts on the web. Many do of course for PR / investor relations reasons, but they don't have to.

What they DO HAVE TO DO is file accounts at Companies House. These are then available to the public to view. If you are that interested get on the Companies house website. So you don't accuse me of being evasive in any way, here is the link to the Blades Leisure information:
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06963761/filing-history

You will need to open the various PDF files.

Can we once and for all stop this 'hidden accounts' line. The accounts are not pretty as they show losses due to the massive wages we are contracted to pay, but they are not hidden.

I genuinely hope this helps to move the conversation on a bit.

Many thanks for the link ISC and I read the key attachments and financial statement.

In my simplistic way of looking at things in the year to June 2015 Blades Leisure
- Had a turnover (gate receipts plus other income) of about £11 m
- Wages were about the same at about £11 m
- Monies are then taken out as admin charges of about £5 (some presumably to the other club related companies but I can't follow the trail)
- Profit on player sales minus costs was about £ 2 m
- Hence a nominal loss of about £ 3 that year and about £ 4 m the previous year.

So without knowing more about the admin charges in my simple mind either the owners are bailing out the club yearly (as others have said) or the club is running up more debt at the bank.

The bit that surprised me is the staff numbers of 101 football related plus 101 non football related, that's alot of people, admittedly some part time, and clearly some big wage earners to rack up £ 11 m.

I think I've now answered my own question of an overview of the clubs finances and thanks for you help with the web link.

 

[Esablade]

There is no grand cover up. The holding company accounts shown on the website are for shareholders (I'm one) of the old company that previously ran the club. The deal with HRH was that KM and he fund the losses 50/50 as and this was done through a new company. There is no legal requirement for any company to publish its accounts on the web. Many do of course for PR / investor relations reasons, but they don't have to.

What they DO HAVE TO DO is file accounts at Companies House. These are then available to the public to view. If you are that interested get on the Companies house website. So you don't accuse me of being evasive in any way, here is the link to the Blades Leisure information:
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06963761/filing-history

You will need to open the various PDF files.

Can we once and for all stop this 'hidden accounts' line. The accounts are not pretty as they show losses due to the massive wages we are contracted to pay, but they are not hidden.

I genuinely hope this helps to move the conversation on a bit.

Where do I or anyone for that matter claim there is any 'grand cover up'?

I know this is the company which was formerly Sheffield United PLC, which was formally Conrad Plc which was Conrad Continental plc etc etc...building companies...it's currently 85% controlled by the Scarborough group...so as I said, it's the McCabe's company.

What I do claim is it's a little disingenuous to post SheffieldUnited Limited accounts on the OS, when most people believe the football club is owned by HRH/McCabe.

It appears to have led to some gullible ( or worse) people coming on here claiming 'these are the club's accounts' which in turn leads to the questions about 'where are the wages, income from crowd...what's he hiding' and the like.

It isn't clear.

As you state, they don't have to post the accounts on the OS which only goes to add to the confusion as to why these accounts are up?

IMO it's stuff like this which add's to any conspiracy theories and the like...

 

[mancunianblade]

Long may it continue. Wasn't it Phipps who said, "we wont see the princes true spending power until we reach the Championship"

 

[coolhandluke]

Where do I or anyone for that matter claim there is any 'grand cover up'?

I know this is the company which was formerly Sheffield United PLC, which was formally Conrad Plc which was Conrad Continental plc etc etc...building companies...it's currently 85% controlled by the Scarborough group...so as I said, it's the McCabe's company.

What I do claim is it's a little disingenuous to post SheffieldUnited Limited accounts on the OS, when most people believe the football club is owned by HRH/McCabe.

It appears to have led to some gullible ( or worse) people coming on here claiming 'these are the club's accounts' which in turn leads to the questions about 'where are the wages, income from crowd...what's he hiding' and the like.

It isn't clear.

As you state, they don't have to post the accounts on the OS which only goes to add to the confusion as to why these accounts are up?

IMO it's stuff like this which add's to any conspiracy theories and the like...

CONSPIRACY THEORY ...... " a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group "

In other words , McCabe is a lying cheating thief who is deliberately running the club into the ground financially for his own benefit . Why wont Blades conspiracy theorists just say that this is exactly what they believe instead of going round and round in circles ?

 

[Esablade]

CONSPIRACY THEORY ...... " a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group "

In other words , McCabe is a lying cheating thief who is deliberately running the club into the ground financially for his own benefit . Why wont Blades conspiracy theorists just say that this is exactly what they believe instead of going round and round in circles ?

I don't know?

Who/where are these people saying McCabe is 'lying cheating thief'? Wherever they are I'd guess they're a small minority.

Fans are pissed off and blame the owners for their incompetence and failure in running the club over the last ten or so years....even the biggest clapper accepts it's been grim.

Anyhow, here's hoping for better times both on and off the field starting this season.

UTB!

 

[coolhandluke]

I don't know?

Who/where are these people saying McCabe is 'lying cheating thief'?

Fans are pissed off and blame the owners for their incompetence and failure in running the club over the last ten or so years....even the biggest clapper accepts it's been grim.

Anyhow, here's hoping for better times both on and off the field starting this season.

UTB!

Esablade ..... you and i know full well McCabes been accused of every deceitful , lying , treacherous , rapacious , greedy , underhand trick in the book . To deny he has is disingenous in the extreme .

Fans have been pissed off by some of the howlers McCabe has undoubtedly made over the years . But why simply ( conveniently ) cite his mistakes ad nauseum , ignore anything hes done thats actually had a positive impact , write it off as blind luck , or , just call him a crook who should fuck off ?

I get the feeling that if ( and its a big IF ) we are relatively successful under Wilder , we,ll still be forced to listen McCabe being likened to the son of satan because of his past howlers ?

If McCabe really gets under your skin , or anyone elses for that matter , just say " I HATE MCCABE " and leave it at that as rational debate cannot be had

 

[Esablade]

Esablade ..... you and i know full well McCabes been accused of every deceitful , lying , treacherous , rapacious , greedy , underhand trick in the book . To deny he has is disingenous in the extreme .

Where are these accusations on here and by whom?

They're are discussions about accounts and hotels and transfers and all that stuff which is fair enough, happens on most football forums...I'm not sure I've read anyone post on here 'we're selling 'x' player because McCabe is stuffing the money in his pocket?

We did recently have Sean Thornton claiming 'someone' stated the rent was going up to £1 million from £310k, but the only person found to be stating that was Sean Thornton himself as far as I could see!?!?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Many thanks for the link ISC and I read the key attachments and financial statement.

In my simplistic way of looking at things in the year to June 2015 Blades Leisure
- Had a turnover (gate receipts plus other income) of about £11 m
- Wages were about the same at about £11 m
- Monies are then taken out as admin charges of about £5 (some presumably to the other club related companies but I can't follow the trail)
- Profit on player sales minus costs was about £ 2 m
- Hence a nominal loss of about £ 3 that year and about £ 4 m the previous year.

So without knowing more about the admin charges in my simple mind either the owners are bailing out the club yearly (as others have said) or the club is running up more debt at the bank.

The bit that surprised me is the staff numbers of 101 football related plus 101 non football related, that's alot of people, admittedly some part time, and clearly some big wage earners to rack up £ 11 m.

I think I've now answered my own question of an overview of the clubs finances and thanks for you help with the web link.

Those accounts are group accounts and include the results from Sheffield United Football Club - which make up the vast majority if not almost all of the incone and expenditure figures .

As no bank interest was payable it's safe to assume there were no bank borrowings and no interest was paid to any director or associated companies of any shareholder. Nor any loans outstanding to any of them.

Any cash shortfalls were funded by the owners and proof of this is also on Companies House.

The number of none football employees of 101 is I suggest a typo as the SUFC Accounts show 61 and I'm pretty sure BL doesn't have an additional 40 employees. The wage bill less NI and pensions equates to around £1800 PW on 101 employees. Considering quite a few in the 101 will be youngsters earning a lot less so you can see how much some were earning in 2014/15.

The administrative expenses includes rent to SU Ltd of £310k. I have no knowledge of any other payments to associated businesses but it includes infrastructure maintenance, insurance, rates, travel costs, light and heat and office costs. Like most businesses.

 

[Sean Thornton]

"It appears to have led to some gullible ( or worse) people coming on here claiming 'these are the club's accounts' which in turn leads to the questions about 'where are the wages, income from crowd...what's he hiding' and the like."


Like the poster did himself in April 2016?









As for rent at a million, Sandy McBlade for one quoted it.[/QUOTE]

 

[Esablade]

"It appears to have led to some gullible ( or worse) people coming on here claiming 'these are the club's accounts' which in turn leads to the questions about 'where are the wages, income from crowd...what's he hiding' and the like."






"It appears to have led to some gullible ( or worse) people coming on here claiming 'these are the club's accounts' which in turn leads to the questions about 'where are the wages, income from crowd...what's he hiding' and the like."





As for rent at a million, Sandy McBlade for one quoted it.

SandyMcBlade ?

Where...he probably read it from you...

 

[Pierre's PC]

Don't we have a thread for this circle jerk?

Not that it's boring or anything.

 

[super_pig]

I'm enjoying it whilst it lasts but the real test will come when we hit a difficult patch under Wilder. Some fans will inevitably turn on him when that time comes, that group always will, but hopefully the board will remember the adaptability that he showed after a difficult start this season, and after some of his signings didn't come off.

i'm reserving judgement until after the TW.. hope the fax is broken!

 

[Sean Thornton]

SandyMcBlade ?

Where...he probably read it from you...

http://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/10-board-members.45425/#post-958606

 

[Sean Thornton]

http://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/10-board-members.45425/#post-958606

 

[Esablade]

One rumour from a bitter obsessive on BM.

http://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/10-board-members.45425/#post-958606

http://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/10-board-members.45425/#post-958606

So one person, back in March, started the rumour on an entirely different forum, then another ( the same?) person repeated that rumour on here which was subsequently ignored until you started quoting it constantly ( twice here tonight it's so juicy!), and then starting a thread on it when the rent didn't subsequently rise to £1 million!?!?

I know you like your childhood literary figures but you'll be re-naming yourself Captain Ahab if you carry on like this...most people, myself included, only heard this rumour from your good self repeating it...

 

[Sean Thornton]

So one person, back in March, started the rumour on an entirely different forum, then another ( the same?) person repeated that rumour on here which was subsequently ignored until you started quoting it constantly ( twice here tonight it's so juicy!), and then starting a thread on it when the rent didn't subsequently rise to £1 million!?!?

I know you like your childhood literary figures but you'll be re-naming yourself Captain Ahab if you carry on like this...most people, myself included, only heard this rumour from your good self repeating it...

You said no one had said it on here. You were wrong. As usual. So you change the point. As usual. Then suggest SMc is the same bloke who posted it on BM. It's all you ever have, nothing.

 

[Esablade]

You said no one had said it on here. You were wrong. As usual. So you change the point. As usual. It's all you ever have.

Well this what I actually said:

"but the only person found to be stating that was Sean Thornton himself as far as I could see!?!?"

Note the question marks and the 'as far as I could see' bit...but hey, fill yer boots!

As I say, most people heard this 'rumour' from you...